What games have well designed difficulty settings?

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jg4xchamp

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#1  Edited By jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts

As usual, since the title is a too long didn't read, preachy champ thread will go on being preachy champ thread without copping out and giving you jabronis a tl;dr. So carry on.

Anyway what inspired this potential flash fiction post? So I'm playing Shadow Warrior 2013 on Insane, and there are a lot of things I could say I don't care about in that game (the game feel just isn't there, the bosses suck), but discussing the game with mems in lounge, and the concept of difficulty came up with in games. And the reality is most, if not the lion's share of video games usually handle higher difficulties the same way.

-The enemies you are fighting get absurd health bars

-You get hit harder now, and if it's a shooter, the enemies are more accurate.

Now functionally it's still the same game, but it's meant to present the idea of a challenge. It is made more difficult, because of how much more ammo it takes, and how quick you can fall. Frankly I don't think it's always done very well, in certain cases I would argue the games very design goes against their difficulty setting. For instance the way Bioshock Infinite plays, sort of misses the point of why 1999 mode would work. System Shock 2 had actual an actual inventory, rpg elements, and all that jazz, so that style of play made sense for that game. Infinite doesn't, and as a result it takes one of the few things it does well (the power fantasy) away from the game, and sort of makes you play the wack-a-mole game. As opposed the god being who shoots you murderous crows out of his arms.

Shadow Warrior doesn't quite **** up that hard for me, but it's so fucking spongy. It takes what already weren't that interesting enemies to fight, and makes them a chore (I hate the Shamans with a passion). The bosses themselves are just a fucking slog where you shoot this metal plate endlessly waiting till you finally get a crack at the proper health bar. And it's not hard, it's just time consuming. You've already figured it out, you're just being asked to do this monotonous shit a lot longer. So what games do you feel are examples of difficulty settings done well? because I bet you can name like 25 off your head that do it in a way you think sucks.

Devil May Cry - Really any 3d beat-em up in general. Yes enemies hit harder, but the thing is the enemies never feel spongy on the higher difficulties. The big difference is in a game like DMC, or Bayonetta, or Ninja Gaiden, is that you still hit these mother fuckers really hard. There are systems in place to let you do massive damage. In a game like Revengeance for instance the highest difficulty demands mastery of the parry, because perfect parries allow you to just wreck enemies.

So where they get their difficulty is that they demand a level of efficiency, as in better play, not necessarily more time consuming play (which is what Shadow Warrior does). Because these games usually have great enemy variety, on higher difficulties levels play a little different. You start seeing late game enemies show up early, they mix up enemy combinations from what you played on your initial playthrough. The idea being that if you want to be challenged, you should have a better understanding of these systems, and our systems are in place that they can't even fucking touch you. So we can do this, now get good.

It's an actual challenge to the player to get better, where as the "make them sponges" doesn't make the player better nicer, just tests their patience and more importantly their persistence.

Another example from something I played recently.

Now I could go with Metal Gear and whatever, as that series has always had great difficulty settings until V, but I'll mix it up. So I played Human Revolution this year, also good game, also played it on its highest difficulty "Give Me Deus Ex". What works here for me is the following: Realistically you can't really go gung ho, i don't give a **** guns blazing outside of normal until upgrades anyway.

But I still played HR mostly by killing fools, and less as a pacifist. What the higher difficulty did wasn't make anyone spongy necessarily, no more so than what little of it I played on normal a few years ago, but it punishes you for wanting to play wrecklessly. On it's highest difficulty the result of said punishment is that you are more patient, you think things through, and you are actively encouraged to explore your options.

On normal you sort of just turn your brain off and go I bet, not saying you can't appreciate what the game does well, but the option is there for you to just ignore it. On hard, not an option, you'll need to pay attention. You might need to handle things a bit sneaky, you might need to worry about doing some hacking, and when you do get into a shoot out, it's still engaging, since you can't just unload all willy nilly and not get rekt.

It's a fundamentally small thing, and is more a product of how great the level design can be in Human Revolution, but it's an example of restraint. Too often games try to let their hard mode be "hard" for the sake of hard, and as a result break their game (Infinite sort of breaks on 1999 mode in my opinion), but this while not exactly Shinobi, is still enough of a threat to keep you honest, but actively highlights the strengths and encourages the player to explore the systems.

To sum my thoughts: I like when the difficulty demands a better understanding and/or more efficient play out of the player. When it's just stuff that feels like it makes fights and sequences longer, it just makes the combat more monotonous than engaging. It stops being a challenge, and becomes a chore.

So those are my examples, what are yours?

Oh and inb4 gitgud

Right I forgot to add something that makes this SW worthy so I can instantly ignore the blog it crew or "hur dur how is this SW material". Consolites are casuals so naturally they can't handle well designed difficulty, that's why console devs make difficulty an after thought. This is why the glorious PC masterrace gets games that have actual good difficulty settings.

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iandizion713

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#2  Edited By iandizion713
Member since 2005 • 16025 Posts

Thats what i loved about Metroid Prime: Federation Force, they didnt do the boring scaling most games do. They just gave you different Mods and effects to enhance the difficulty. It made for a refreshing experience. One example is how you have to go through this snow map mission. Then on the hardcore mode they introduce whiteouts where you can barely see. Its difficulty is highly focused on skill.

Sadly the game was heavily criticized for this and the reviewer complained there was no scaling of enemies health. I was like, wtf, where yall find this dude. Then went on to complain about difficulty spikes, again, i was like wtf, we call that diversity.

I use to play Human Revolution without some of the augmentations to make it harder. I would upgrade hacking and stuff. I loved the games gameplay, was a fun little sandbox feel to it. The boss fights are weak though, even one that is down right depressing. Yet this one boss fight is heaven, its where you fight the lady in the water.

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Alucard_Prime

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#3  Edited By Alucard_Prime
Member since 2008 • 10107 Posts

Devil May Cry 4 is actually a good example. I recently almost started a new playthrough with the remastered version and I was reminiscing on how tight the difficulty level was. Almost too difficult in some parts, but not quite.....you just really gotta stay sharp throughout this game. Don't remember how they exactly tweaked the different difficulties, but I had fun going through different ones.

The whole game has to be well designed really, I mean the enemies can't be cheap, etc.

For a game to be properly challenging, it requires a dev that prioritize this quality during development. You cannot just ignore this aspect of the game and then at the end say "let's add a hard difficulty mode....double the health of the enemies and call it a day".....lol ...Other things have to be tweaked as well, behavior of AI, weapon balance, etc.

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#4  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25319 Posts

Games that increase complexity are my favorite.

  • Kid Icarus: Uprising
  • World of WarCraft
  • Fire Emblem Fates
  • Goldeneye 64
  • Perfect Dark

I also like customizable difficulties, such as in Space Rangers 2, Mount and Blade and System Shock 1

I also want to give credit to Rimworld's storyteller system. Some storytellers are definately harder than others (Rey Torturer is way tougher than Pheobe Chillax), but none of this is done by making enemies stronger. But rather, more complex bad events and bad event chains.

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#5  Edited By iandizion713
Member since 2005 • 16025 Posts

@Maroxad: Some pretty top tier picks you got there. Very nice.

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uninspiredcup

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#6  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 62798 Posts

Shamans will drop with two shots from a charged rocket launcher and bosses can be finished in a quarter of the time with the revolvers secondary, or even faster with the rocket launcher provided it it timed correctly.

In general I would say Shadow Warrior has better boss fights than the majority of FPS games, which usually encompass spamming the player with minions or simply a huge health poor. In the case of Shadow Warrior, like more traditional games outside the genre it's a case of learning a simple pattern and hitting specific spots.

I think if we were to bring up an example of how not to do it, it would probably be Resident Evil 4, using an on the fly system of resources designed to keep a constant challenge.

Unfortantly due to AI issues, rather than engaging in tactical combat weary of your resources, most players can (and seem to) simple repeatedly kick a door as AI patiently wait on the other side ready to be knifed to death. Aside from damage, the game decreases the stagger, which makes little to no difference.

Kick enemy. Knife on ground. Rinse and repeat. Over and over and over.

By comparison to Shadow Warrior, which is usually exploit free, the boss battles have the option to be bypassed with a rocket launcher, or very poorly designed QTE's that are easily exploitable.

Loading Video...

In the case of (supposedly) the most difficult boss in the game Verdugo, simply spamming a few mines in his predetermined spawn location will nigh on remove all his health pool.

Another, and more obvious example would be "The Big Cheese", if the player simply exploits the clipping, he will go in a constant loop unable to damage the player.

Increasing damage, reducing resources becomes moot when the basic frame falls apart.

In this regard, Revelations improved the difficulty by much like the originals, deliberately confining spaces, removing Resident Evil 4's knife exploits and making doors area to area rather than kickable. On the added infernal mod the opening area of the game will demand the player avoid combat - which is debatable if good, but personally I liked it. Enemy speed is also erratic, changing from slow to fast very rapidly.

I dare so if it wasn't for Revelation jumping all over the place with annoying characters and instead solely focusing on the boat or a preferred dual campaign similar to Resident Evil 2, it probably would be an all round better game.

Excellent thread btw.

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iandizion713

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#7  Edited By iandizion713
Member since 2005 • 16025 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Yeah but hardcore players would refuse the easy way out. Its the reason we try to fight dragons in Dark Souls with broken swords, the reason we try to beat Deus Ex using only handgun. We are sadistic freaks, we take hard games and try to make them even harder as we progress. We go crazy trying to think of anyway to add difficulty. Hey, let me try this dungeon out without a torch to see. Ill look for the eyes and sounds of my enemies.

I see your point on Revelations though. Its good for games to fix exploits.

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#9 Alucard_Prime
Member since 2008 • 10107 Posts

@Maroxad: yeah Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are great examples because if memory serves me right you got assigned extra mission objectives at the higher difficulty, on top of some of the other adjustments they made.

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deactivated-60bf765068a74

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#10 deactivated-60bf765068a74
Member since 2007 • 9558 Posts

Mario 64, Yosh Island.

They start out easy and get harder, and its super hard to 100% the games.

Nintendo is the true king of difficulty that no indie or AAA usually comes close to.

Its like that analogy with the pooridge not too easy, not too hard....Just right.

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#11 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts
@Maroxad said:

Games that increase complexity are my favorite.

  • Kid Icarus: Uprising
  • World of WarCraft
  • Fire Emblem Fates
  • Goldeneye 64
  • Perfect Dark

I also like customizable difficulties, such as in Space Rangers 2, Mount and Blade and System Shock 1

I also want to give credit to Rimworld's storyteller system. Some storytellers are definately harder than others (Rey Torturer is way tougher than Pheobe Chillax), but none of this is done by making enemies stronger. But rather, more complex bad events and bad event chains.

What does Kid Icarus do? I stopped playing that game and backlogged it because of the controls.

@uninspiredcup said:

Excellent thread btw.

Barring new game plus, you don't get rockets until Chapter 10. So Gazu is already out of the picture, but while the alt fire for the revolver does a number on the crystal, it's actually just as limp as the uzi on the armor plates. Which even after unloading 2 full clips of the uzzi (and however man revolver shots) takes fucking ages on Insane. And if you are on top of upgrading the other weapons, you're not exactly fighting Mezu (the pegasus thing) with a full charged rocket launcher unless you been saving 4000 grand just to pump into that gun. RE4 can be a bit lazy with the QTE nature of the fights, and sure it's definitely easy mode, but it's difficulty isn't cheap or tedious or any of that. Your kit and tools are never compromised in RE4 the way they are in other games, the lack of difficulty is more of an issue than any perceived dicking over. Beyond that RE4's core is a lot stronger as the feedback loop is strong all the way through. The core gamefeel of Shadow Warrior in comparison is rubbish. Which fine Shadow Warrior doesn't have the exploits, but it's unpolished in every other department. About the only concept it understands is give me a lot of action, and a decent amount of mechanics to work with, but all of them bing limp takes a lot of the satisfactions away.

@Alucard_Prime said:

Devil May Cry 4 is actually a good example. I recently almost started a new playthrough with the remastered version and I was reminiscing on how tight the difficulty level was. Almost too difficult in some parts, but not quite.....you just really gotta stay sharp throughout this game. Don't remember how they exactly tweaked the different difficulties, but I had fun going through different ones.

The whole game has to be well designed really, I mean the enemies can't be cheap, etc.

For a game to be properly challenging, it requires a dev that prioritize this quality during development. You cannot just ignore this aspect of the game and then at the end say "let's add a hard difficulty mode....double the health of the enemies and call it a day".....lol ...Other things have to be tweaked as well, behavior of AI, weapon balance, etc.

I'm fine with games that don't aim for the difficulty, lord knows I love Mario. But, I would just prefer games that do add difficulty settings, to at least try to make it a bit more interesting. I don't think it should put a spot light on a glaring weakness in your gameplay systems and design, it should instead highlight your strengths (much like what DMC and Deus Ex does). And part of that is tied to how flexible you make the mechanics, it's not surprising that I think games like Deus Ex, Doom, or MGS do difficulty well, for starters their mechanics are pretty flexible.

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#12 Alucard_Prime
Member since 2008 • 10107 Posts

I'm reminded also of how Street Fighter 2 would ramp up the cpu difficulty by making the computer opponent cheat, like Guile could spit out Sonic booms whenever he wanted etc, lol....but I would still enjoy defeating the cpu and it was still satisfying because it made me fell really good that I could beat an opponent that was cheating. I guess that worked because the core gameplay was so fun.

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#13  Edited By iandizion713
Member since 2005 • 16025 Posts

@jg4xchamp: Uprising works like a gamble. Its goes by a scale,

depending on the difficultly you set, the game will reward you with so many hearts or take so many away. So if you lose on a certain difficulty, you might get knocked down the scale by losing hearts causing you to not be able to move up the difficulty. Also, the lower your wager with the goddess, the lower tier weapons you get. Its really genius how they did it. Plus the game is pretty hard so it makes it work good.

Also, hearts are offered to goddess Palutena to come closer to you. Strangely rewarding.

Loading Video...

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#14 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17980 Posts

I enjoyed TLoU's difficulties. Sure, it amounted to basically reducing the supplies you got to virtually nothing on grounded whereas normal threw you much more than you could possibly ever use unless you were being deliberately wasteful, but still, it enforced a type of play that was conducive to the underlying structure and focus of the narrative. It reinforced the themes instead of standing counter to them. You could get killed with one or two shots, and this also applied to the enemies as well. It ramped up the tension and enjoyment quite a bit.

Most games' difficulty settings simply make it more challenging. TLoU actually lent weight to the narrative.

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#15 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38071 Posts

Funny enough, Quantum Break. Enemy's flank and flush you into a corner better I found. A corner is not where you want to be because your time rush becomes all but useless there.

I agree on DMC4, Ninja Gaiden and definitely Revengeance. I never beat the Senator on the hardest.

Playing Deus Ex MD right now on normal and finding it a bit too easy.

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#16 foxhound_fox
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DMC4 was brilliant. Each level of difficulty had something unique about it (past Devil Hunter) and things like the Blitz getting Devil Trigger was just inhuman.

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#17 jg4xchamp
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@cainetao11 said:

Funny enough, Quantum Break. Enemy's flank and flush you into a corner better I found. A corner is not where you want to be because your time rush becomes all but useless there.

I agree on DMC4, Ninja Gaiden and definitely Revengeance. I never beat the Senator on the hardest.

Playing Deus Ex MD right now on normal and finding it a bit too easy.

Yeah, I don't know if I'd say it's just the difficulty, but sure on hard mode I wasn't really playing it like Gears. I'd say it's maybe the shooting that way, I know a lot of people don't like the shooting, and I would sort of agree it can be a bit scittery, but I like it for what it does. It's punchy as hell, and the over done recoil means you gotta feather just about every gun when you're shooting. So as a result you do use those powers more to get better positioning, and only ever abusively unload when you are doing the freeze and shoot them combo.

But yeah, that's an example of a game where the higher difficulty is at least trying to get the player out of their comfort zone and mess with the mechanics more.

And if MD is anything like HR, I would argue that the game in general is just fairly easy, especially of how upgrading works. It may have been toughish early when the character is weak, but after a bout a 1/4 of the way through you begin handling situations well. Again I'd say it might be similar to what QB does, it's not necessarily about making the game hard, more so about highlighting the strengths of the system. Maybe give you an extra push to try other shit with these systems.

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#18 Jagoff
Member since 2016 • 515 Posts

To make it snappy, REmake. Each setting makes all the difference when it comes to the resource:enemy ratio, where it can get lopsided in favour of the latter on higher difficulties. It just further raises the stakes on a game already filled to the brim with tension, and a thorough understanding of the game is nearly required in order to finish it on hard.

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#19  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 62798 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:
@Maroxad said:

Games that increase complexity are my favorite.

  • Kid Icarus: Uprising
  • World of WarCraft
  • Fire Emblem Fates
  • Goldeneye 64
  • Perfect Dark

I also like customizable difficulties, such as in Space Rangers 2, Mount and Blade and System Shock 1

I also want to give credit to Rimworld's storyteller system. Some storytellers are definately harder than others (Rey Torturer is way tougher than Pheobe Chillax), but none of this is done by making enemies stronger. But rather, more complex bad events and bad event chains.

What does Kid Icarus do? I stopped playing that game and backlogged it because of the controls.

@uninspiredcup said:

Excellent thread btw.

Barring new game plus, you don't get rockets until Chapter 10. So Gazu is already out of the picture, but while the alt fire for the revolver does a number on the crystal, it's actually just as limp as the uzi on the armor plates. Which even after unloading 2 full clips of the uzzi (and however man revolver shots) takes fucking ages on Insane. And if you are on top of upgrading the other weapons, you're not exactly fighting Mezu (the pegasus thing) with a full charged rocket launcher unless you been saving 4000 grand just to pump into that gun. RE4 can be a bit lazy with the QTE nature of the fights, and sure it's definitely easy mode, but it's difficulty isn't cheap or tedious or any of that. Your kit and tools are never compromised in RE4 the way they are in other games, the lack of difficulty is more of an issue than any perceived dicking over. Beyond that RE4's core is a lot stronger as the feedback loop is strong all the way through. The core gamefeel of Shadow Warrior in comparison is rubbish. Which fine Shadow Warrior doesn't have the exploits, but it's unpolished in every other department. About the only concept it understands is give me a lot of action, and a decent amount of mechanics to work with, but all of them bing limp takes a lot of the satisfactions away.

Well yea, it has no difficulty.

We can complain about Shadow Warrior spongy enemies, which to an extent I would agree with, especially how late the game supplies the player with the rocket launcher, but that game does require skill and an element of on the fly tactic mitigating enemies. It isn't solely a case of spongy enemies but a variant of enemy types.

Resident Evil you have all these upgrades, all these attempts to diminish player empowerment, doesn't work.

Resident Evil 4 is a great, influential game, but it ain't exactly well designed when it comes to difficulty or arguably even enemy variety. Aside from the head morph, insectoids and very rare machinegun men, the enemies practically always act the same and usually come to a slow halt a few feet away from the player - making it less fair and more an easy shooting gallery regardless of setting.

Would probably make a similar argument for the original pre-Resident Evil 4 titles as well, as the almost all enemies are passable with ease, making the survival horror aspect pretty much moot for large portions of the game, by the end of the game you are dropping ammo or dumping it in a create.

Ironically the Resident Evil people seem to hate, Gaiden, fixed much of this by increasing the enemy count, grab ability and implementing a penalty for escaping while rewarding exploration. It also implemented a simple slider aim (for the gameboy hardware) that at least required a modicum of skill via timing, rather than just vaguely aiming in the creatures direction.

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#20 quatoe
Member since 2005 • 7242 Posts

I agree with Human Revolution. The way they handled that was amazing. I might go replay that again.

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#21 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:

Well yea, it has no difficulty.

We can complain about Shadow Warrior spongy enemies, which to an extent I would agree with, especially how late the game supplies the player with the rocket launcher, but that game does require skill and an element of on the fly tactic mitigating enemies. It isn't solely a case of spongy enemies but a variant of enemy types.

Resident Evil you have all these upgrades, all these attempts to diminish player empowerment, doesn't work.

Resident Evil 4 is a great, influential game, but it ain't exactly but it ain't exactly well designed when it comes to difficulty or arguably even enemy variety. Aside from the head morph, insectoids and very rare machinegun men, the enemies practically always act the same and usually come to a slow halt a few feet away from the player - making it less fair and more an easy shooting gallery.

Would probably argument for the original pre-Resident Evil 4 titles as well, as the almost all enemies are passable with ease, making the survival horror aspect pretty much moot for large portions of the game, by the end of the game you are dropping ammo or dumping it in a create.

Ironically the Resident Evil people seem to hate, Gaiden, fixed much of this by increasing the enemy count, grab ability and implementing a penalty for escaping while rewarding exploration. It also implemented a simple slider aim (for the gameboy hardware) that at least required a modicum of skill via timing, rather than just vaguely aiming in the creatures direction.

Challenge no, but every bit of Resident Evil 4 combat empowers the player (the disempowering stuff is more creating a limitation on the player, and asking them to play a certain way, may have had a different intent, but the actual result isn't short of excellent as far as I'm concerned), and its combat engine still has plenty of room for proper exploration of its systems. Whether its you abusing its knife or round house kicks, to knocking stuff out of enemy hands, to just using your basic arsenal. It's core is strong enough, that in mercenaries mode that aspect of the game shines, a similar mode in Shadow Warrior would get thoroughly exposed. Not the least of which is because it has a scoring system that misses the basic points on how to make a scoring system work. As bad as RE6 is, because it's shooting engine is the way it is, it's mercenaries mode is still an absolute blast to play.

I'm all for the idea of a game gimping me on ammo (I love me some Stalker, and only enjoy Metro on ranger mode), and asking a lot of the player, but Shadow Warrior never leaves room for proper tactical play even on hard. With the exception of the rocket, and thanks to its buy ammo button, it basically says "level design? **** level design, that would be like work or something" they basically go out of their way to fight obnoxious waves while giving you ammo for shit that is probably the least useful against the heavier enemies (the uzi for starters). Otherwise, spam some powerful attacks, slice away at dudes. It's scoring system on paper should work: don't get hit, handle things quickly. Problem it doesn't actually reward you for being experimental with those systems or stressing them for all they are worth. Hell half the time I go to look for a video of someone 5 starring that game (and it's rarely them doing it on insane), the person barely knows what they are doing when they get it.

Compare it to say Bulletstorm's scoring system or people who get S ranks in Devil May Cry on its higher difficulties, they know what the **** they are doing, because those games are coherent about their combat system, right down to their scoring system. They didn't just throw it in, under some false guise of pretending there is a skill ceiling to the game.

It has an upgrade system that takes the players own aim out of the equation, it has upgrade systems that undermine your own ability to properly get money and ammo because no one on that team recognized "well our rpg systems are super simple, so lets pad this out with some arbitrary shit", and on its highest difficulty again the rest of your kit, even with the upgrades is just an exercise of running around, heal up, and wait for the sponges to drop.

RE4 builds its variety through its combat scenarios, of which it had more in one area of that game, than Shadow Warrior has in all 17 chapters, and not to make assumptions, but I'd take the bet it's sequel as well if the first game is any indication.

RE4's difficulty issues are that it's easy, but I can live with that. Shadow Warrior's design just comes off lazy and unimaginative most of the time.

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#22 jg4xchamp
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@foxhound_fox said:

DMC4 was brilliant. Each level of difficulty had something unique about it (past Devil Hunter) and things like the Blitz getting Devil Trigger was just inhuman.

I hope Itsuno gets another crack with a game some time soon, I need to try out Dragon's Dogma, but I need someone other than Platinum on the beat-em ups. Especially since in between good Platinum games, I gotta sit through them doing some poverty shit in between.

@quatoe said:

I agree with Human Revolution. The way they handled that was amazing. I might go replay that again.

Played it for the first time this year, dope game, except for how they shoe horn in missing link to director's cut, and Samus Aran your ass.

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Cloud_imperium

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#23 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

Blizzard games come to mind. Games like Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 give you different experience on harder difficulties. Instead of just getting bigger health bar, enemies become more intelligent. They make use of hit and run tactics, trap you and launch small attacks on your base from time to time. They also take advantage of unique abilities and send special units after you.

Thief 1 and 2 are another games that pop in my head every time difficulty settings are mentioned. For example in Thief 2, on hardest settings, you are not allowed to kill any human from start to finish and every difficulty setting has different number of objectives that you have to complete and different number of loot you have to grab.

Playing on hardest difficulty is the most fun because it really becomes 100% stealth experience and you get to experience all the story driven missions.

Total War games also do difficulty settings pretty well. Enemies become a lot more intelligent on campaign map and on battlefield during harder difficulties. It becomes harder to negotiate and win battles. You really have to use your head and come up with different strategies to defeat them. Option to select Short and Long Campaign also makes the experience entirely different. Short Campaigns are good for new comers, who capture quite a few settlements and then the game is over but on Long Campaign mode, you experience what you just can't in Short Campaign.

You have to do a lot more to succeed, and you have to manage your empire for way more years. Not only that but actual story stuff takes place during Long Campaign. For example, you will not have to deal with the Mongols (especially if you are playing as Christians) in Short Campaign because the game will end before their arrival but during Long Campaign, you will have to deal with them and dealing with them will bring you one of the most memorable experience in video games ever despite being hard as balls. Same goes for other games in the franchise.

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Jag85

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#24  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 20667 Posts

Metal Gear Solid 2. Great gameplay at all difficulty levels, with each difficulty level providing a different experience, from the more action-oriented experience of the lower difficulty settings to the more stealth-oriented experience of the higher difficulty settings.

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clone01

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#25 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29843 Posts

Personally, Halo 2. Move up the difficulty, and the AI gets really crafty.

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k--m--k

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#26 k--m--k
Member since 2007 • 2799 Posts

Not SW materials.

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Maroxad

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#27  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25319 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

What does Kid Icarus do? I stopped playing that game and backlogged it because of the controls.

Faster enemies, new enemies, new areas, enemies would be more aggressive too, especially bosses. On the highest difficulty, you are pretty much dodging non-stop.

As for new enemies, one partciular instance on the top of my head, higher difficulties placed 2 ornes (instant kill enemy) in one of the corridors. Making that room a lot more difficult to navigate. Whereas it was a breeze in lower difficulties.

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skektek

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#28 skektek
Member since 2004 • 6530 Posts

The only correct answer: Demon's Souls

You don't choose a difficulty level, that is for pussies, your actions determine the difficulty.

When you are a little bitch and die often the world gets blacker and harder.

If you man up and slay a demon, dragon, or invading phantom the game will ease up a bit on your punk ass.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#29 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

I beat Bayonetta 2 on 3rd Climax because that chomp chomp chain had to be mine.

I chose this on my first play through and it made for an exquisitely challenging experience.

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deactivated-58bd60b980002

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#30 deactivated-58bd60b980002
Member since 2004 • 2016 Posts

I see a lot of post about RE4 being well made. I remember that depending how well everything went during chap 1-4, chap 5 will be different. Like if you don't find enough jewel to upgrade your stuff and so you have a hard time getting through the game the last chapter will have a lot less enemies.

The reverse is also true, if you find everything during past chapter, the last one is filled with ennemies.

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iandizion713

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#31 iandizion713
Member since 2005 • 16025 Posts

@Coco_pierrot: I still remember Chainsaw man whoopin my arse in that game. Was fun to see all the cool death animations though, id always let them kill me to check them out.

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jg4xchamp

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#32 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts

@Coco_pierrot said:

I see a lot of post about RE4 being well made. I remember that depending how well everything went during chap 1-4, chap 5 will be different. Like if you don't find enough jewel to upgrade your stuff and so you have a hard time getting through the game the last chapter will have a lot less enemies.

The reverse is also true, if you find everything during past chapter, the last one is filled with ennemies.

It has a hidden difficulty setting.

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Heil68

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#33 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60831 Posts

Ninja Gaiden is a good example.

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blue_hazy_basic

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#34 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts

Something that really bothers about most strategy games is that increased difficulty doesn't really mean the AI plays significantly better, simply that it gets all kinds of ridiculous boosts to production/spawn time/damage/etc in much the same way. So yes it becomes more challenging and requires a different style of play its because the AI "cheats" rather than improves, looking forward at some point to when we get skynet and it really challenges us on a level playing field.

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jg4xchamp

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#35 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64057 Posts

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Something that really bothers about most strategy games is that increased difficulty doesn't really mean the AI plays significantly better, simply that it gets all kinds of ridiculous boosts to production/spawn time/damage/etc in much the same way. So yes it becomes more challenging and requires a different style of play its because the AI "cheats" rather than improves, looking forward at some point to when we get skynet and it really challenges us on a level playing field.

They suddenly become omniscient.

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R10nu

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#36 R10nu
Member since 2006 • 1679 Posts

Your Dooms and Quakes. Also OG Xcom games.

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SecretPolice

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#37 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45667 Posts

Halo 3 Legendary, those MF'N snipers can kiss mah azz. lol :P

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thepizzatree

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#38 thepizzatree
Member since 2016 • 33 Posts

Alot of people have already mentioned Goldeneye 64 and Perfect dark, witch are perfect examples of what modern games should aspire to be when it comes to difficulty.

As for modern games. The last of us had a really good difficulty system, but the last 3 or so missions are just too easy since you have OP weapons like the flamethrower.

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TheManofPears

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#39 TheManofPears
Member since 2016 • 284 Posts

@MirkoS77: my god the chapter with the sniper was a challenge on Grounded. It got to the point where I couldn't play Left Behind because I was so sick of the single player due to how often I got stuck.

Multiplayer was a great challenge in that game too, I'll buy the sequel for more multiplayer like that. Hopefully they won't change it

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nethernova

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#40 nethernova
Member since 2008 • 5721 Posts

@skektek said:

The only correct answer: Demon's Souls

You don't choose a difficulty level, that is for pussies, your actions determine the difficulty.

When you are a little bitch and die often the world gets blacker and harder.

If you man up and slay a demon, dragon, or invading phantom the game will ease up a bit on your punk ass.

The world tendencies were actually pretty awesome. Too bad the other Souls games got rid of them.

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with_teeth26

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#41 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11640 Posts

I would say the Killing Floor games, since the difficulty options feed into the progression system of the game. you start out relatively weak and play on normal, as you increase perk level/learn the maps and enemies, you can better tackle the tougher difficulty settings.

KF2 especially does it well - in tougher difficulty settings, weak enemies stay weak, but you take more damage, and the enemies that are already tough in lower difficulties get way tougher and gain new attack patterns.

so you still feel powerful, you just need to avoid taking damage and work harder to take down the big guys. I think these games would have failed if the difficulty options weren't tuned just right, fortunately they are

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AznbkdX

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#42  Edited By AznbkdX
Member since 2012 • 4284 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:
@Coco_pierrot said:

I see a lot of post about RE4 being well made. I remember that depending how well everything went during chap 1-4, chap 5 will be different. Like if you don't find enough jewel to upgrade your stuff and so you have a hard time getting through the game the last chapter will have a lot less enemies.

The reverse is also true, if you find everything during past chapter, the last one is filled with ennemies.

It has a hidden difficulty setting.

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Wow. Played through the game a ton of times and I never knew it did this.

Then again I rarely died so I guess that could be why.

Most of the choices in this thread seem to have a decent difficulty structure. Pretty much any Platinum game and TLOU do a good job on this.

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R10nu

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#43 R10nu
Member since 2006 • 1679 Posts

@with_teeth26 said:

I would say the Killing Floor games, since the difficulty options feed into the progression system of the game. you start out relatively weak and play on normal, as you increase perk level/learn the maps and enemies, you can better tackle the tougher difficulty settings.

KF2 especially does it well - in tougher difficulty settings, weak enemies stay weak, but you take more damage, and the enemies that are already tough in lower difficulties get way tougher and gain new attack patterns.

so you still feel powerful, you just need to avoid taking damage and work harder to take down the big guys. I think these games would have failed if the difficulty options weren't tuned just right, fortunately they are

Now i feel dumb for forgetting a game i've sinked 100 hours into with my friends. You ramp up the difficulty and suddenly a dumb zombie shooter turns into a very strategic and teamplay-oriented one, where a slight miscommunication can spell death for everyone.

Payday 2 does its difficulty in a very similar way and almost as successful at it. Payday does a better job at incentivizing higher difficulty missions because the bounty for completing them gets a huge bump and you can never have too much money in that game. But i'd say the gameplay loop is done better in Payday 2 in general.

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Jagoff

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#44 Jagoff
Member since 2016 • 515 Posts

The more I think about this topic, the more I'm beginning to realize that I'm not too much of a fan of multiple difficulties in general. I don't mind one extra mode ala Professional mode in RE4, but I do believe that a default difficulty should always be in play, leaving the developers to decide if they want to create something stress-free or challenging. Dark Souls, The Witness and Super Meat Boy are a few good examples in this case of a games not having to rely on one mode or another in order to get the "full experience".

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Sushiglutton

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#45 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 10463 Posts

@Maroxad said:

Games that increase complexity are my favorite.

  • Kid Icarus: Uprising
  • World of WarCraft
  • Fire Emblem Fates
  • Goldeneye 64
  • Perfect Dark

I also like customizable difficulties, such as in Space Rangers 2, Mount and Blade and System Shock 1

I also want to give credit to Rimworld's storyteller system. Some storytellers are definately harder than others (Rey Torturer is way tougher than Pheobe Chillax), but none of this is done by making enemies stronger. But rather, more complex bad events and bad event chains.

Ha, came here to post Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. Think they nailed it so long ago. Semi-open maps and then adding more objectives on the higher difficulties (and ofc scaling health/enemies etc some too). Simple, brilliant.

I also agree with Champ that Hn'S in general does it well. Basically on the lowest difficulty you just need to worry about clicking the attack button and look cool. Then you need to add more and more defensive moves as you scale up the difficulty.

I thought Transistor handled it interestingly with its Limiters system. You could make the game harder in imaginative ways for a greater reward.

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Skelly34

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#46 Skelly34
Member since 2015 • 2353 Posts

Games where NG+ or Harder difficulties actually involve enhanced mechanics/complexity/different-enemies

Games like CoD, Skyrim and Diablo 3 are examples of terribly handled difficulty settings where you just make things harder by artificially handicapping the player and buffing enemies. This just forces you to play the game a certain way.

For how shit its gameplay is, WoW does this pretty well as the higher you go into raid dungeon difficulties the bosses don't only get numerically stronger, but also have challenging and lethal mechanics slapped onto them that weren't involved in the easier modes.

Dark Souls games also have some good concepts involving different and ambushing enemies that weren't in the first playthrough.

I'm sure there's some other games that do this but I can't think of anything else right now.

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Allicrombie

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#47  Edited By Allicrombie
Member since 2005 • 26223 Posts

@jg4xchamp- I like my games like I like my men. Easy at first, then able to be climbed up and finally ending in me getting spanked. =P

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Ten_Pints

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#48 Ten_Pints
Member since 2014 • 4072 Posts

I like that game on Ps1 where they got the difficulty settings the wrong way around. Easy was hard and hard was easy.

Spec ops i think was the game, made me laugh.

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doubalfa

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#49 doubalfa
Member since 2006 • 7108 Posts

Halo Reach on Legendary was a great example, enemies improved their strategies ,aand proved far deadlier and upgraded versions.

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deactivated-58bd60b980002

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#50  Edited By deactivated-58bd60b980002
Member since 2004 • 2016 Posts

@jg4xchamp: Cool vid so I became aware of something that was kind of "hidden"

I remember that in the chap 4 I did do well and so the last chapter was not that hard. After that I had enough to buy the Thumbson automatic riffle so I did and this time around the last chapter had barely any ennemies. So I played the game again and this time pickup up every jewel I could and updated every weapon even though I used the Thumbson to destroy everything easily and lo behold the last chapter was super epic with enemies everywhere !