What is a hardcore gamer? Answer: No such thing.

Do they own Xbox360's and PS3's? Or are they elitist PC owners? Maybe they are the proud owners of all current-gen consoles? Or perhaps they are gamers that still play games of past gens that were once considered "hardcore"?

The definition of "hardcore" is often a blurry line on which gamers walk along in battle for supremacy. In recent disputes to hardcorism I've heard such titles as Gears of War, GTA IV, Halo 3, World of Warcraft, and Madden mentioned. These are some titles which fall on that line that no one can seem to agree which side they actually land on. These are certainly games enjoyed on a level suitable to hardcore fulfillment's, but also enjoyed by millions of casual gamers as well.

I'm sure there are many games you consider "hardcore" firing off in your head right now...Diablo, Starcraft, Halflife...the fact is, probably most of everyone on this board right now loves video games to some degree, some more than others. People from all walks of life, with various budgets and ages all find the time to support the hobby they know and love. Not just by playing, but by actively keeping up with current gaming events and debating their views on the whole matter.

One thing is certain, we love gaming. It is the fabric of who we are, and for many it is the motivation for what we aspire to be some day. We can sit here and argue wether Joe_Smoe isn't hardcore because he doesn't like X game . We can debate whether X system > X system. We can state how PC gaming supreme and above all else. We can do all these things until we are blue in the face...

Or, we can take a step back and think a bit, and realize how we all aren't that different to begin with. Each of us has their own definition of a "hardcore gamer". Many of us stray away from that term because of how it is often thought of. I used to consider myself a "hardcore gamer", but then I realized how pathetic and false that label has become.

A lot of gamers aren't going to like the same things I like or you like. People grow up in different times with different tastes. Sure I may think it's horrifying to see someone write "Mario sucks". But then I have to realize, they probably didn't grow up in the 80's or 90's where Mario defined a genre and redefined the way 3d is done. I can't expect younger gamers to live that and understand it, and I can't call them casual because they didn't grow up in that time period. The same goes with countless classics that are loved and bashed on a daily basis.

That is all I have to say on the issue. It took me a long time of gaming to realize all this. I hope it makes sense and gives people something they haven't thought of before. While we all argue who and what is hardcore, it is FACT that we all love games. :)

I do agree, but originally hardcore vs casual was how often you played games, and the difficulty of them.
Hardcore gamers owned lots of games, and admitted to being gamers. Casuals didn't necesarily own lots of games, and when asked, they would say that they would play games once in a while, but they are not a true gamer.

Hardcores wait in line at midnight. Casuals do not, because they aren't as interested or excited for them.

Hardcore gamers are simply the opposite of casual gamers. If you play games like reading a magazine, don't really feel the need to buy a console every generation, and don't mind what you're fed chances are you're a casual gamer. If you take games more seriously and are more inclined to play certain types of games, you're probably considered a hardcore gamer.

What games are and are not hardcore is debatable. But certain games are undoubtebly more casual than others.

Just because the line is blurry doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also, what exactly DID mario 64 do for 3D that hadn't already been done before?

I do agree, but originally hardcore vs casual was how often you played games, and the difficulty of them.
Hardcore gamers owned lots of games, and admitted to being gamers. Casuals didn't necesarily own lots of games, and when asked, they would say that they would play games once in a while, but they are not a true gamer.

Hardcores wait in line at midnight. Casuals do not, because they aren't as interested or excited for them.

awsss

im not sure some of my cousins play alot but i wouldn't consider them hardcore because when talking about games they thought gears of war 2 was coming to ps3.

Hardcores wait in line at midnight. Casuals do not, because they aren't as interested or excited for them.

awsss

I play a ton of games, but I refuse to stand in a line at midnight. On Principle, not because I don't like games as much as someone who does.

Casuals should be picked of one by one in a bloody fashion withg Chainsaws and Shotguns. Core gamers shuld be exempt from Tax and get free Health Care and Transport.

j/k. It's all opinion really.

I do agree, but originally hardcore vs casual was how often you played games, and the difficulty of them.
Hardcore gamers owned lots of games, and admitted to being gamers. Casuals didn't necesarily own lots of games, and when asked, they would say that they would play games once in a while, but they are not a true gamer.

Hardcores wait in line at midnight. Casuals do not, because they aren't as interested or excited for them.

awsss

sums it up right there pretty much. And if you don't do those your not necessarily casual, it's not how many you own or how many hours you put in, it's 1. are you ok with telling people you play games? 2. Do you actually have a passion for gaming? 3. are you not a retarded fanboy who can accept others opinion and actually reason through them to see if they are right and not just stick with brand loyalty like some abercrombie clone

Hardcore gamers are simply the opposite of casual gamers. If you play games like reading a magazine, don't really feel the need to buy a console every generation, and don't mind what you're fed chances are you're a casual gamer. If you take games more seriously and are more inclined to play certain types of games, you're probably considered a hardcore gamer.

What games are and are not hardcore is debatable. But certain games are undoubtebly more casual than others.

Just because the line is blurry doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also, what exactly DID mario 64 do for 3D that hadn't already been done before?

hakanakumono

Mario 64 was the first fully realized 3d world without a fixed camera. Most of all 3rd person game worlds since Mario 64 have used the same free roaming camera system. It would have been done at some point, but Mario 64 defined what an open ended 3d world should feel like. Can't picture a time in gaming where I have been more blown away then those mid 90's.

a hardcore gamer is someone who goes the extra step...plays more..dissects the gameplay more..maybe studies some aspect of gaming such as the story writing or the 3d modeling

to me that is a hardcore gamer..someone who really gets into a game

there are too many different definitions of a hardcore gamer, imo

but i think that a hardcore gamer is someone that plays videogames alot... doesnt matter which videogames

the reason why i think which videogames someone plays doesnt matter is that alot of them blur the lines between what we think is hardcore and casual

for instance, Halo and Madden are both Hardcore and casuals games at the same time. what makes 1 person that plays it hardcore and another casual?

Core gamers are a specific demographic - hardcore gamer in a sense has lost almost all meaning because of wannabe mass-consumers appropriating the term regardless of merit.

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The OP is fallacious, it implies that the casual / non-traditional market has some love of the medium that has never been demonstrated to exist. Their loyalty is only to their own amusement, if a game is too complex, intelligent, creative, or threatening it gets turned off and the TV gets flipped on.

The OP's analogy essentially suggests a pro football player should give props to the guy playing Pac-Man at the arcade - they're both gamers, and they're both playing games, right? And why aren't more artists congratulating elementary schoolers for their finger paintings, they're equally "lovers of art", right TC? :|

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The dividing line has become "games are art" - the false core gamers choke on accepting this point (and its implications) more often than not - and of course which games are "core" will always in reality exist, you may not be told it, but the marketing departments are well aware - "games for everyone" is bull**** idea that implies taste and consumer preference are universal, and markets to a non-exist Joe Gamer.

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But, whatever, enjoy your feel-goody rhetoric, I'm going to go cough up a lung, I can only stand so much of the "gaming culture" that wouldn't bat an eye if the main character of Fallout 3 were a teletubby.

The short answer:

The word "hardcore" has become like the word "gifted" - it has been ruined because too many drooling idiots believe calling themselves something makes it so.

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

Overclockd

Show me a casual that likes and can play/beat NG:B.

Hardcore Gamer is a term invented by certain industry leaders to make people feel cool for playing their games and consoles. The companies tell you that if you use their product, you are hardcore, and then the kids say I wanna be hardcore so they beg mommy to by them the next xbox...er I mean console.

So if you think your hardcore you are probably not, you were just fooled onto thinking you are by being brainwashed by corporate America.

[QUOTE="Overclockd"]

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

SSCyborg

Show me a casual that likes and can play/beat NG:B.

That game gives you easy mode after you die 3 times.

[QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="Overclockd"]

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

Overclockd

Show me a casual that likes and can play/beat NG:B.

That game gives you easy mode after you die 3 times.

It's still a hardcore game.

[QUOTE="Overclockd"][QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="Overclockd"]

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

SSCyborg

Show me a casual that likes and can play/beat NG:B.

That game gives you easy mode after you die 3 times.

It's still a hardcore game.

That doesn't mean no casual gamer ever saw their friend play it and went to go try it.

That doesn't mean no casual gamer ever saw their friend play it and went to go try it.

Overclockd

I don't see the point you're trying to make.

No casual in their rightful mind would pick the game up. ie. Purchase.

[QUOTE="Overclockd"]

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

SSCyborg

Show me a casual that likes and can play/beat NG:B.

im as sure that there is a casual gamer that has played NG:B as im sure there is a hardcore gamer that hasnt finished NG:B

[QUOTE="Overclockd"][QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="Overclockd"]

A definitely believe there are hardcore and casual gamers, but there will never be casual and hardcore games, only people who play games.

While you might be able to classify a person as casual, hardcore, or something in between, a game cannot be classified. This is because both casual and hardcore players can enjoy a game. Halo can be enjoyed by both groups, so it is both hardcore and casual. You could argue that a certain group is more likely to play a certain game, but it's not as if a casual gamer will absolutely never play a certain game.

SSCyborg

Show me a casual that likes and can play/beat NG:B.

That game gives you easy mode after you die 3 times.

It's still a hardcore game.

its just a difficult game...

is that what makes it hardcore?

I always liked gamer as a title. Just that, and in that there was wiggle room. You can play a lot or a little and still fit in. Adding words like hardcore and true just messes it up.

[QUOTE="Overclockd"]

That doesn't mean no casual gamer ever saw their friend play it and went to go try it.

SSCyborg

I don't see the point you're trying to make.

No casual in their rightful mind would pick the game up. ie. Purchase.

I think I got a little carried away, just argueing and forgetting the main point. The main point of my original post was that a game can be both casual and hardcore at the same time, without having to be something in between. Halo and Madden not reserved for either group. Your statement went against the last sentence of my post, but not the main idea and then I just replied for the heck of it.

Even though it is unlikely, a casual person might buy a game if they see it and think it looks cool. Maybe there are casual people that find out they enjoy NG:B. Everyone has to start somewhere.

To me a hardcore gamer is someone who plays a lot of games and/or knows a lot about them. Which includes pretty much everyone who's ever signed in GS. Maybe a better word would be "an informed gamer".

The opposite are casual gamers who play only occasionally and don't know much aside from the games they play.

Games themselves aren't hardcore or casual to me. Flight sims are traditionally considered "hardcore" games because they're very difficult, but I know people who now nothing about gaming yet play flight sims. Similarly The Sims or Mario aren't casual games, a hardcore gamer can enjoy them just as well.

And you might think, what about all that showelware and license crap, well.. those are just BAD games, and us "hardcore" (informed gamers) don't play them because we know they are bad. If they were good, we could play them just as well.

Bull****. I'm a hardcore gamer. I have over 25 hours clocked this week on games.SSCyborg

Core gamers are a specific demographic - hardcore gamer in a sense has lost almost all meaning because of wannabe mass-consumers appropriating the term regardless of merit.

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The OP is fallacious, it implies that the casual / non-traditional market has some love of the medium that has never been demonstrated to exist. Their loyalty is only to their own amusement, if a game is too complex, intelligent, creative, or threatening it gets turned off and the TV gets flipped on.

The OP's analogy essentially suggests a pro football player should give props to the guy playing Pac-Man at the arcade - they're both gamers, and they're both playing games, right? And why aren't more artists congratulating elementary schoolers for their finger paintings, they're equally "lovers of art", right TC? :|

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The dividing line has become "games are art" - the false core gamers choke on accepting this point (and its implications) more often than not - and of course which games are "core" will always in reality exist, you may not be told it, but the marketing departments are well aware - "games for everyone" is bull**** idea that implies taste and consumer preference are universal, and markets to a non-exist Joe Gamer.

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But, whatever, enjoy your feel-goody rhetoric, I'm going to go cough up a lung, I can only stand so much of the "gaming culture" that wouldn't bat an eye if the main character of Fallout 3 were a teletubby.

subrosian

Well, someone drank their haterade this morning lol. I was certainly not suggesting that everyone which plays games is on the same level. I'm talking mainly to the ill-tempered forumites here. Most people in this forum are apart of a very, very small gamer demographic. Some people here don't play games that much, but that occurrence is so few it is practically negligible. Within the bounds of this forum and probably other gaming forums, we all share a common bond to video games. It kind of reminds me of the rap/hiphop industry actually. Where it's just a bunch of people that love the same thing fighting for who's the so called better half.

Who says that the kid that started playing games last month won't be as "hardcore" as yourself in the foreseeable future? When I look back, I still consider myself hardcore from the very moment I touched a controller. My passion and dedication for video games has never fallen from that moment on. So who are you to say who is a hardcore and who isn't? You're right, the term has been thrown around so much that it has lost it's original meaning. But don't you think when guys like us started that there were oldschool Atari and Mac players were saying the same things back then? That we weren't hardcore.

And the games for everyone is not **** my friend. Remember Pong? The first commercially successfull game ever. Ya, since day one games have been for everyone. Super Mario Bros. on the NES? Tetris? How is that not for everyone? Donkey Kong? Our gaming heritage was founded on games meant for everyone. While I consider games like Super Mario Bros. hardcore, some may disagree. I do believe it is the gamer themselves that must make this "hardcore" dedication to games.

As the gaming community grows bigger and bigger, the audience of the so called "hardcore" gamer will be diminished more and more. I remember when I used to be made fun of at times for being a gamer, I watched those times change as I was able to have conversations with people that normally didn't play games.

There are still plenty of great experiences to be had regardless of how casual the industry is getting. And not to mention the wake of user created content with consoles putting creation at the fingertips of every gamer. It is the games that include more people that grow this industry wether you like it or not. The industry has to keep growing in order for us to play our Ico's and our Fallouts. The games that don't necessarily make the big bucks, but offer an experience that only us few can enjoy.

I have to say, I do enjoy all these takes on the term "hardcore". I didn't think this thread would stir up some of the stuff it has.

[QUOTE="awsss"]

Hardcores wait in line at midnight. Casuals do not, because they aren't as interested or excited for them.

GundamGuy0

I play a ton of games, but I refuse to stand in a line at midnight. On Principle, not because I don't like games as much as someone who does.

I would never do that either. >_>;

[QUOTE="SSCyborg"]Bull****. I'm a hardcore gamer. I have over 25 hours clocked this week on games.Brainkiller05

Well, that's only counting PC games. I didn't add in my 360.

To me a hardcore gamer is someone who plays a lot of games and/or knows a lot about them. Which includes pretty much everyone who's ever signed in GS. Maybe a better word would be "an informed gamer".

The opposite are casual gamers who play only occasionally and don't know much aside from the games they play.

Games themselves aren't hardcore or casual to me. Flight sims are traditionally considered "hardcore" games because they're very difficult, but I know people who now nothing about gaming yet play flight sims. Similarly The Sims or Mario aren't casual games, a hardcore gamer can enjoy them just as well.

And you might think, what about all that showelware and license crap, well.. those are just BAD games, and us "hardcore" (informed gamers) don't play them because we know they are bad. If they were good, we could play them just as well.

mr_mozilla

"Informed" is my favorite definition of hardcore so far. That would explain why most everyone here likes the 360/ps3 more than the wii. The less informed end up buying a wii because they see everyone else has one and it is the cheapest.

All those games you listed are like this

The have casual appeal, and hardcore appeal, you can play them casually, or you can really get into it, and know everything about the game, and take your skills in the game to the next level

like ive stated before, I hate the term "hardcore gamer" ... if there's one term i wish could be outlawed in the US it's that one. If I hear it, it's like hearing finger nails across a chalkboardjohnnyv2003

Same here. True gamer doesn't sit well with me either. Just remember Bubbles is HARDCORE!

@-Wheels-

The day that gaming can be defined as simply Pong, Donkey Kong, and Rock Band (or such) is the day it loses all integrity. I know plenty of gamers who dislike *all* of those games - yet they know more about gaming and play more games than 99% of this forum - and unlike 99.9%+ of this forum, are professional game designers.

The idea of games for everyone is idiotic - it's what killed Hellgate London, for example (you should read the recent interviews regarding this - long but fascinating). Essentially they tried to put *something* for so many different types of gamers that the whole didn't please any of them.

Y'know the old saying "you can't please everyone" - and it's true. Core gaming has grown, not shrunk - of course in your own post, you seem to want it both ways. You suggest that 'core gaming' is shrinking, yet suggest a kid with an hour under his belt can be a core gamer? Which is it? The reality is - that demographic - that "taste" in games has grown tremendously.

There is a new old demographic - the "non-traditional gamer" - but the games that appeal to both demographics simultaneously are few and far between - and the ones that can appeal to both demographics *better* than a targeted game? Non-existent. There is targeting whether they state it or not - no publisher in their right mind spends millions on a product without a damn good idea of their specific audiences.

You cannot simply use "broad appeal" games to suggest that a game appeals to *everyone* (broad is not everyone) nor does that mean broad appeal games are *better* or will remove niche titles. The reality has become that with PC, steam, self-publishing, XBLA, Wiiware, and PSN - the market opportunity for niche titles has grown.

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At a certain point, we'll reach a "comfort level" where incredibly high-power, high-tech tools become accessible to everyone. We're at that point with film, certainly, where you can make short films without insane budgets, and we're reaching that point with games. Unlike short film - there's actually a successful sales model in place in gaming for such content as well.

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Of course, Nintendo is calling "games for casuals / non-traditionals" "Games for Everyone" - which is misleading at best. If you're serious about the gaming, I simply wouldn't suggest buying it. As the third parties who tried to ride their coat-tails, or the wannabes found out - it's not that simple. They mean "games that target a lot of people" at best. " Hell even within the so called "large" demographics ( core / casual / non-traditional ) there are really the hundreds of "real" demographics we're targeting - tween girls, tween boys, teenage boys, MMO-gamers, sports gamers, 18 ~ 25 year old males, 24 ~ 36 year old males, soccer moms, grandmothers, non-gaming seniors, lapsed gamers, etc ....

And when you look at the "real" demographics and think about what game is covering every single one of them? Really genuinely appealing to each one? I don't buy it - the idea of "games for everyone" is a nonsensical feel-good phrase. Can anyone play any game? Yes. Is a game really designed for 'everyone' with 'everyone' in mind? No.

I think "HARDCORE" refers to be skilled in games in general and it includes having the passion to play games.

edit: some ppl just miss up in almost any game while others handle it in a better from the beginning .

edit2:some deeper , more complicated games are annoying to casual gamers, but hardcore gamers are thrilled by those things.

so Hardcore gamers exist.

Hardcore gamers are simply the opposite of casual gamers. If you play games like reading a magazine, don't really feel the need to buy a console every generation, and don't mind what you're fed chances are you're a casual gamer. If you take games more seriously and are more inclined to play certain types of games, you're probably considered a hardcore gamer.

What games are and are not hardcore is debatable. But certain games are undoubtebly more casual than others.

Just because the line is blurry doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also, what exactly DID mario 64 do for 3D that hadn't already been done before?

hakanakumono

I agree with the first part of your post. Regarding Mario 64 however I must say that there is too much to mention about what that game brought to the table. If you beat that game and got all 120 stars, found Yoshi on top of the castle then you would understand. It was pretty much the first truly playable 3D platforming title.