@PSP107: of course 100% Scorpio will have games Xbox One can't play. We already know the VR games will be only playable on Scorpio.
Im willing to bet within the first year of Scorpios launch we see a game, that a 3rd party Dev says "we just can't do this game on any other console"
Games have to be approved by Microsoft before they can be released on their platform, a developer can't just go rogue and just create a Scorpio only game.
Also as said previously, there's no issue with development scalability between systems, they share the same API and feature sets.
The Xbox One Scorpio was announced at E3 and looks to be more powerful than the upcoming PS4 NEO, Sony’s mid-cycle machine that will look to run games at a better spect level.
Microsoft reps have spoken on the subject of Xbox Scorpio exclusives, stating that it was up to the development community if they wanted to make high-spec launches.
The idea of this seems very limited, while Project Scorpio is bound to sell well, it stands to reason that publishers will want to broaden their sale base as much as possible.
So yes, they can go rogue all the while MS knowing and agreeing to it.
If Scorpio is as powerful as the rumors say once it hits around 5 million sold, the no one left behind nonsense will be left behind. No sense handicapping Scorpio
@xxyetixx:How do you propose they make Scorio exclusive games? Scorpio uses the same platform as X1S, if the game is not VR how do you suppose they make it a "Scorpio" exclusive?
My next major game console purchase. I'll probably get the PS4 Pro first though really. I want Horizon Zero Dawn in checkerboard 4K with HDR. Greatest is coming.
Scorpio at this point. It will already have a library of over 900+ games when it releases. The Switch will be no where close to that. Right now the Switch is a wait and see game console just like the Wii U was. Even 3rd party developers are going to wait.
@dynamitecop: "Games have to be approved by Microsoft before they can be released on their platform, a developer can't just go rogue and just create a Scorpio only game."
Can you picture MSoft forcing developers(atleast their own) to design only around Scorpio? I mean again, whats the point of all that power just to play Xone games?
@dynamitecop: "Games have to be approved by Microsoft before they can be released on their platform, a developer can't just go rogue and just create a Scorpio only game."
Can you picture MSoft forcing developers(atleast their own) to design only around Scorpio? I mean again, whats the point of all that power just to play Xone games?
The power would be mainly graphics which is scalable so it should not be a problem.
As I am tired of repeating at this point, I don't have much issues with Microsoft, as much as I have issues with the Xbox One itself. I loved the Xbox 360, it was my personal favorite console of last generation, and I spent seven years on this board championing it over other systems. But of course, that tends to be forgotten, because people would rather believe that I have an agenda, or am on a 'smear campaign.'
What benefit would come from just making it a new individual console? I can tell you what right now, absolutely nothing. It's not like games would be any different, it's not like it would not play Xbox One and Xbox 360 games, and nothing would change about its technical specifications.
The only difference would be that it eliminates the Xbox One from the equation, which doesn't solve anything and actually causes countless more problems and controversy.
I think you are wrong. Given that currently the Scorpio has to maintain parity with the Xbox One, and every single Scorpio game has to run on an Xbox One too, the Scorpio's truly impressive and formidable power is effectively meaningless- sure, it means that the Scorpio will run games made for Xbox One at 4K resolutions, but that's it. There really is no actual utilization of all the extra resources the hardware brings with it to the table, and if the PS4 Pro is any indication, most third parties in such a situation will only do the bare minimum, if that (and the dynamics of install base mean that third parties should theoretically be more willing to support the Pro than they would an Xbox upgrade- theoretically,before you get your panties in a bunch and start pedantically arguing this point). That effectively means that all of the Scorpio's excess power is going to waste- sure, Microsoft gets to have the victory for resolution in multiplat games, but that's about it.
But imagine if the Scorpio was truly a next gen spec for third parties to target- imagine if a third party attempting to develop for Scorpio wasn't going to have to concern itself with paring its game down so it can run on a standard Xbox One as well. Imagine the kinds of games we could get, if they were made for a Vega CPU, a 6 TFLOPS GPU, and 12GB of RAM, instead of having to concern with what I am sure even you will agree barely passed for midrange specs in 2013, and are pretty on the lower end now. Think about the kinds of games, the massive leaps forwards, we could get. Do you remember how you felt the first time you played Oblivion, Gears of War, and Dead Rising? Because I do. And that only happened because third parties developed those games around the Xbox 360 spec, instead of also worrying about making those games run on Xbox (in which case, at best they would have made Xbox games, and uprezzed them, slamming some extra textures onto them, and called it a day; at worst, with having to support Xbox, they would have lowered themselves to supporting the PS2 and Gamecube additionally, developing for an even lower spec, and just speccing up from there- all three of these games would have been significantly less impressive in those cases).
Basically, you know how the Xbox was a major leap over the PS2, but for most third party games that it shared with the PS2, there was no real utilization of all that extra power? (Yes, I know some games did utilize it, but I am talking about the bulk, the 90%+ of the games). That's what would happen if the Scorpio had to maintain intercompatibility with the existing Xbox One. I think it's in Microsoft's own best interests to make the Scorpio a full fledged successor- the Xbox One will be four years old when the Scorpio is introduced (remember, even the original Xbox was able to get away with a four year life cycle without much trouble), and Microsoft themselves will have supported it with three Halo releases, two Gears of War releases, presumably five Forza releases, as well as other stuff like Sunset Overdrive and ReCore and Sea of Thieves and Killer Instinct. Move on, make the Scorpio a new system, make it backwards compatible with Xbox 360 and Xbox One, sure (and hey, maybe even throw in original Xbox compatibility if you can), and make it a brand new, discrete system. Its x86 architecture will in any case be intercompatible with Xbox One and even PS4 enough that third parties can continue developing 'cross gen games' for a while, should they wish to, but its very existence will spur Sony into fast tracking a PS5, and we won't be stuck with these consoles that weren't even impressive at launch, let alone now.
Is that not something you would want?
What does abandoning XB1 owners achieve? All it does is piss of owners and forces Microsoft to start their ecosystem from the ground up. Absolutely Nothing what you're saying is going to convince people to buy a Xbox Scorpio or a PS5 if they abandon PS4 and XB1 and not have backwards compatibility.
Microsoft already has this problem solved. How they're going to approach it is have developers develop for the Scorpio and scale up and down from PC and XB1, through UWP. Developers and Microsoft can keep consistency through Dynamic scaling, while this will reduce the resolution of games on the XB1, as no one really cares if the game is going to be 720p or 900p as the owners are already used to it, after maybe 7-8 years after the XB1 is released then they will drop support for the console.
Like I said from my post a few days ago. Microsoft was forward thinking enough to develop XB1, their future consoles and UWP to be future proof platform where there won't be stop gaps, be scalable on Console and PC with better ports as both platforms support UWP, and not have problems when moving to other architectures like from PowerPC to X86.
Sony however, we don't know their plans and they may have to make PS4 incompatible with a PS5, to profit from PSnow or they don't have a robust platform that UWP is.
OP just pointed out a flaw thats about to happen for MS. Is scorpio next gen ? Will they have an answer to PS5?
Very awkward console because of its price and power
It's a current generation refresh, albeit a pretty massive one in terms of power escalation, it's no different than the PS4 Pro's position for Sony which is also a generation 8 console.
They both aim to do the same thing for their 8th generation base consoles. This isn't an answer to the PlayStation 5, it's an answer to criticism of their original hardware and the PlayStation 4 Pro.
About two and a half years ago we started to look at a hardware refresh that we might want to do, which in the end led to the Xbox One S and Scorpio in terms of designs. We’d looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I’d say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought–with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year–that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different.
So we looked at Scorpio and 4K and what I thought was a bigger step in terms of performance. It was something that we wanted to focus on.
MS was given the same options as Sony's option A (PS4 Pro) and option B.
About two and a half years ago we started to look at a hardware refresh that we might want to do, which in the end led to the Xbox One S and Scorpio in terms of designs. We’d looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I’d say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought–with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year–that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different.
So we looked at Scorpio and 4K and what I thought was a bigger step in terms of performance. It was something that we wanted to focus on.
MS was given the same options as Sony's option A (PS4 Pro) and option B.
And MS chose the right option... PS4 Pro is just a half-arsed attempt. Atleast MS is going all out.
A souped up 8th gen console that will probably go for native 4k.
it will actually kick off the 9th gen
4th gen for M$
Microsoft has MSX standard which requires at least 1 cartridge slot which was used for games.
With MSX standard, Microsoft has 3DO like business model for home computer entrainment with gaming bias.
Microsoft's business plans has X86 PC for business and MSX for home. Commodore+Atari's price war messed-up MS's MSX clone war home computer entrainment plans.
Notice the similarities with Xbox and Windows 10 gaming plans. Note the "X" in MSX.
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
The main separation between MSX and MS-DOS PCs are with the CPU i.e. MSX's Z80 vs PC's X86 CPUs.
Zilog's Z80 was separate branch from Intel's 8080 while Intel created their own 8080/8085 successor in the form of 8086.
A souped up 8th gen console that will probably go for native 4k.
it will actually kick off the 9th gen
4th gen for M$
we go by console gens.... not how many they have released....
I don't think you realize how useless that is, arbitrarily basing a "gen" of 1 system release. But it has no correlation with MS really. It's MS's 4th console generation, which is the truth.
@ronvalencia said:
Microsoft has MSX standard which requires at least 1 cartridge slot which was used for games.
With MSX standard, Microsoft has 3DO like business model for home computer entrainment with gaming bias.
Microsoft's business plans has X86 PC for business and MSX for home. Commodore+Atari's price war messed-up MS's MSX clone war home computer entrainment plans.
Notice the similarities with Xbox and Windows 10 gaming plans. Note the "X" in MSX.
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
The main separation between MSX and MS-DOS PCs are with the CPU i.e. MSX's Z80 vs PC's X86 CPUs.
Zilog's Z80 was separate branch from Intel's 8080 while Intel created their own 8080 successor in the form of 8086.
Wow... what an incredible amount of useless information that is entirely unrelated...
A souped up 8th gen console that will probably go for native 4k.
it will actually kick off the 9th gen
4th gen for M$
Microsoft has MSX standard which requires at least 1 cartridge slot which was used for games.
With MSX standard, Microsoft has 3DO like business model for home computer entrainment with gaming bias.
Microsoft's business plans has X86 PC for business and MSX for home. Commodore+Atari's price war messed-up MS's MSX clone war home computer entrainment plans.
Notice the similarities with Xbox and Windows 10 gaming plans. Note the "X" in MSX.
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
The main separation between MSX and MS-DOS PCs are with the CPU i.e. MSX's Z80 vs PC's X86 CPUs.
Zilog's Z80 was separate branch from Intel's 8080 while Intel created their own 8080/8085 successor in the form of 8086.
So Microsoft is the home of Metal Gear and the reason Hideo Kojima's career got off the ground...
we go by console gens.... not how many they have released....
I don't think you realize how useless that is, arbitrarily basing a "gen" of 1 system release. But it has no correlation with MS really. It's MS's 4th console generation, which is the truth.
@ronvalencia said:
Microsoft has MSX standard which requires at least 1 cartridge slot which was used for games.
With MSX standard, Microsoft has 3DO like business model for home computer entrainment with gaming bias.
Microsoft's business plans has X86 PC for business and MSX for home. Commodore+Atari's price war messed-up MS's MSX clone war home computer entrainment plans.
Notice the similarities with Xbox and Windows 10 gaming plans. Note the "X" in MSX.
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
The main separation between MSX and MS-DOS PCs are with the CPU i.e. MSX's Z80 vs PC's X86 CPUs.
Zilog's Z80 was separate branch from Intel's 8080 while Intel created their own 8080 successor in the form of 8086.
Wow... what an incredible amount of useless information that is entirely unrelated...
My 1st point, original Xbox wasn't first MS's games machine. MSX competed against NES (8 bit era) and SNES (16 bit era).
The original plan for the Hombre-based computer system was to have Windows NT compatibility, with native AmigaOS recompiled for the new big-endian CPU to run legacy 68k Amiga software through emulation. Commodore chose the PA-7150 microprocessor over the MIPSR3000 microprocessor and first generation embedded PowerPC microprocessors, mainly because these low-cost microprocessors were unqualified to run Windows NT. This wasn't the case for the 64-bitMIPSR4200, but it was rejected for its high price at the time.
Amiga CD32 (game console) replacement with the capability to run Microsoft Windows NT and OpenGL via 100+ MHz PA-7150SIMD microprocessor. Amiga CD64 machine was suppose to be the competitor to Sony's PS1.
PA-7100LC and PA-7300LC (LC for low cost) processors, which integrate the memory and I/O controller onto the processor die (on the PA-7300LC additionally the cache controller and first-level cache).
PA-7100LC/PA-7300LC superscalar capabilities
These are 2-way superscalar processor implementations with two integer ALUs and one FPU. Notably only one of the two ALUs is capable to handle loads, stores and shifts.
PA-RISC 1.0's 32 64bit SIMD registers can combine to form 16 128 bit SIMD registers or split to 64 32 bit registers.
----
Hombre was designed as a clean break from traditional Amiga chipset architecture with no planar graphics mode support. Commodore also decided to drop support of the original Amiga eight sprites because at the time sprites became less attractive to developers for its limitations compared to fast blitters. Despite lack of compatibility, Hombre introduced modern technologies including these:
a fill rate of 30 million 3D rendered pixels per second (similar to Sony's PlayStation performance)
16-bit chunky graphic modes (to reduce costs, Commodore abandoned 256 color mode with Color LUT registers)
32-bit chunky with 8-bit alpha channel
1280 × 1024 pixel progressive resolution with a 24-bit color palette
one sprite with a 24-bit color palette, used for the mouse pointer
four playfields at 16-bit graphics mode each
3D texture mapping engine
Gouraud shading
Z-buffering
YUV compatibility with JPEG support
Standard TV and HDTV compatibility
64-bit internal data bus and registers
The chipset could be sold either as a high end PCI graphics card with minimal peripherals ASICs and 64-bit DRAM, or as a lower cost CD-ROM based game system (CD64) using cheap 32-bitDRAM. It could also be used for set-top box embedded systems.
According to Dr. Ed Hepler, Hombre was to be fabricated in 0.6 µm 3-level metal CMOS with the help of Hewlett-Packard. HP had fabricated the AGA Lisa chip and collaborated in the design of the AAA chipset).
-----
Commodore's plans for it's GPU solution is similar to AMD/ATI's desktop PC and semi-custom embedded business plans.
Commodore was suppose lead HP's PA-RISC CPU into small business and homes with Windows NT 3.x. HP's PA-RISC CPU leads to Intel Itanium.
This is before Sega Dreamcast with Microsoft Windows CE relationship. This relationship replaced the failed Amiga Hombre project.
Microsoft runs out of game console hardware partners and releases the original Xbox under Microsoft's own brand.
My 2nd point, Microsoft has been almost in-sync with each game console generation.
The original plan for the Hombre-based computer system was to have Windows NT compatibility, with native AmigaOS recompiled for the new big-endian CPU to run legacy 68k Amiga software through emulation. Commodore chose the PA-7150 microprocessor over the MIPSR3000 microprocessor and first generation embedded PowerPC microprocessors, mainly because these low-cost microprocessors were unqualified to run Windows NT. This wasn't the case for the 64-bitMIPSR4200, but it was rejected for its high price at the time.
Amiga CD32 (game console) replacement with the capability to run Microsoft Windows NT and OpenGL via 100+ MHz PA-7150SIMD microprocessor. Amiga CD64 machine was suppose to be the competitor to Sony's PS1.
PA-7100LC and PA-7300LC (LC for low cost) processors, which integrate the memory and I/O controller onto the processor die (on the PA-7300LC additionally the cache controller and first-level cache).
PA-7100LC/PA-7300LC superscalar capabilities
These are 2-way superscalar processor implementations with two integer ALUs and one FPU. Notably only one of the two ALUs is capable to handle loads, stores and shifts.
PA-RISC 1.0's 32 64bit SIMD registers can combine to form 16 128 bit SIMD registers or split to 64 32 bit registers.
----
Hombre was designed as a clean break from traditional Amiga chipset architecture with no planar graphics mode support. Commodore also decided to drop support of the original Amiga eight sprites because at the time sprites became less attractive to developers for its limitations compared to fast blitters. Despite lack of compatibility, Hombre introduced modern technologies including these:
a fill rate of 30 million 3D rendered pixels per second (similar to Sony's PlayStation performance)
16-bit chunky graphic modes (to reduce costs, Commodore abandoned 256 color mode with Color LUT registers)
32-bit chunky with 8-bit alpha channel
1280 × 1024 pixel progressive resolution with a 24-bit color palette
one sprite with a 24-bit color palette, used for the mouse pointer
four playfields at 16-bit graphics mode each
3D texture mapping engine
Gouraud shading
Z-buffering
YUV compatibility with JPEG support
Standard TV and HDTV compatibility
64-bit internal data bus and registers
The chipset could be sold either as a high end PCI graphics card with minimal peripherals ASICs and 64-bit DRAM, or as a lower cost CD-ROM based game system (CD64) using cheap 32-bitDRAM. It could also be used for set-top box embedded systems.
According to Dr. Ed Hepler, Hombre was to be fabricated in 0.6 µm 3-level metal CMOS with the help of Hewlett-Packard. HP had fabricated the AGA Lisa chip and collaborated in the design of the AAA chipset).
-----
Commodore's plans for it's GPU solution is similar to AMD/ATI's desktop PC and semi-custom embedded business plans.
Commodore was suppose lead HP's PA-RISC CPU into small business and homes with Windows NT 3.x. HP's PA-RISC CPU leads to Intel Itanium.
This is before Sega Dreamcast with Microsoft Windows CE relationship. This relationship replaced the failed Amiga Hombre project.
Microsoft runs out of game console hardware partners and releases the original Xbox under Microsoft's own brand.
My 2nd point, Microsoft has been almost in-sync with each game console generation.
Still an unbelievably useless amount of information, you're talking about company that provides OS's for MANY things and partners with many people to do it. The OS's they provided had little to do with the Microsoft ecosystem, and it wasn't something they really owned when it hit the end user. Not to mention the MSX isn't even a "console", it was a standardized system that came in many different models, that happened to play games. It wasn't even competing with game systems directly.
XBOX is their first real attempt building their own box. Scorpio will be their 4th gen of hardware. The difference being sega's relationship was for M$ to provide an OS for sega branded console. Thats a fairly normal thing for an OS company to do. What M$ did with xbox is work with intel/nvidia to create a microsoft branded box where the intel/nvidia provided hardware. There is a clear distinction on branding and ownership which you acknowledge yet ignore.
Still an unbelievably useless amount of information, you're talking about company that provides OS's for MANY things and partners with many people to do it. The OS's they provided had little to do with the Microsoft ecosystem, and it wasn't something they really owned when it hit the end user. Not to mention the MSX isn't even a "console", it was a standardized system that came in many different models, that happened to play games. It wasn't even competing with game systems directly.
XBOX is their first real attempt building their own box. Scorpio will be their 4th gen of hardware. The difference being sega's relationship was for M$ to provide an OS for sega branded console. Thats a fairly normal thing for an OS company to do. What M$ did with xbox is work with intel/nvidia to create a microsoft branded box where the intel/nvidia provided hardware. There is a clear distinction on branding and ownership which you acknowledge yet ignore.
Against your "MSX isn't even a "console" argument.
As we speak I am typing this with a keyboard onto my Xbox One. I no longer have a computer due to it busting and surf the web via voice on my Xbox One as much as my PC.
Current XBO is not yesteryear's 100 percent pure game "console" either.
XBO has support for IE Edge and MS Office 365. Xbox type device is MS Office division's dream for subscription business model.
----
MSX
OS provider: Microsoft (Japan)
Principal hardware designer: ASCII Corporation with IP parts from Zilog Z80, Texas Instruments TMS9918graphics chip, AY-3-8910 sound chip and I/O. Partner with MS for software and hardware interaction.
Assembly and PCB: Clone business model like 3DO.
Manufacturing funding: Clone business model like 3DO.
Xbox One
OS provider: Microsoft (USA)
Principal hardware designer: AMD with in-house CPU and GPU IP while DSP out-sourced from Tensilica. Partner with MS for software and hardware interaction.
Assembly and PCB: Foxconn, Flextronics
Manufacturing funding: Microsoft
Again, from http://www.davevoyles.com/2015/10/21/the-xbox-wasnt-microsofts-first-console-the-msx-was/
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
Dave Shippy (IBM) 's view point on MS and Sony as IBM's clients.
But with two major products now on the to-do list, Shippy says there was no time for moping. "I had to get over it pretty quick. While I was upset about it, I had to put on my PS3 hat or my Xbox 360 hat and basically just tell my team, 'Hey guys, this is no different than when Intel and AMD create a microprocessor and it goes into a Dell PC and an HP PC. Just get over it, and let's move on."
MS and Sony doesn't own APU IP within XBO and PS4 respectively i.e. AMD's copyright is embedded on the actual chip itself.
As we speak I am typing this with a keyboard onto my Xbox One. I no longer have a computer due to it busting and surf the web via voice on my Xbox One as much as my PC.
Current XBO is not yesteryear's 100 percent pure game "console" either.
XBO has support for IE Edge and MS Office 365. Xbox type device is MS Office division's dream for subscription business model.
----
MSX
OS provider: Microsoft (Japan)
Principal hardware designer: ASCII Corporation with IP parts from Zilog Z80, Texas Instruments TMS9918graphics chip, AY-3-8910 sound chip and I/O. Partner with MS for software and hardware interaction.
Assembly and PCB: Clone business model like 3DO.
Manufacturing funding: Clone business model like 3DO.
Xbox One
OS provider: Microsoft (USA)
Principal hardware designer: AMD with in-house CPU and GPU IP while DSP out-sourced from Tensilica. Partner with MS for software and hardware interaction.
Assembly and PCB: Foxconn, Flextronics
Manufacturing funding: Microsoft
From http://www.davevoyles.com/2015/10/21/the-xbox-wasnt-microsofts-first-console-the-msx-was/
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
I will NOT acknowledge your argument since MSFT has their own view for their own MSX standard.
MSFT's view point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waahahah
MSX is not like Commodore's 8bit microcomputers with also shipped MS Basic ie. Commodore has hardware spec freedom.
MSFT spec'ed MSX to follow MSFT's set standards and downstream partners has follow MSFT's MSX standard.
MSX standard is MSFT's 3DO business model.
again, information dump. Who cares?
from you're link "Microsoft’s DOS and Windows operating systems"... PC gaming. Not console gaming. The fact that MSX point was standardization there were many models. The concept of "generation" is completely obliterated when they take the many model... standard platform approach. In other words... PC.
Again you're terrible at understanding basic context, I never claimed they weren't involved in gaming. Xbox is their branded hardware, they in the end own it, and its a clear distinction in they were consumers when building the box. Prior to that they were producers that provided an OS for ASCII, yamaha, sony, sega... etc etc for them to build hardware and use the windows/dos OS. I said its their ... *THEIR* 4th gen ofhardware. Which again is the truth for Scorpio.
So you're refute about MSFT being more right then me... well it isn't conflicting with what I said so it doesn't matter.
As we speak I am typing this with a keyboard onto my Xbox One. I no longer have a computer due to it busting and surf the web via voice on my Xbox One as much as my PC.
Current XBO is not yesteryear's 100 percent pure game "console" either.
XBO has support for IE Edge and MS Office 365. Xbox type device is MS Office division's dream for subscription business model.
----
MSX
OS provider: Microsoft (Japan)
Principal hardware designer: ASCII Corporation with IP parts from Zilog Z80, Texas Instruments TMS9918graphics chip, AY-3-8910 sound chip and I/O. Partner with MS for software and hardware interaction.
Assembly and PCB: Clone business model like 3DO.
Manufacturing funding: Clone business model like 3DO.
Xbox One
OS provider: Microsoft (USA)
Principal hardware designer: AMD with in-house CPU and GPU IP while DSP out-sourced from Tensilica. Partner with MS for software and hardware interaction.
Assembly and PCB: Foxconn, Flextronics
Manufacturing funding: Microsoft
From http://www.davevoyles.com/2015/10/21/the-xbox-wasnt-microsofts-first-console-the-msx-was/
The Xbox wasn't Microsoft's first foray into gaming – the MSX was
Many people believe that the 3DO was the first console to license a hardware standard which other companies would then produce, but the MSX was doing it long before the 3DO’s 1993 release. Companies such as Sony, Yamaha, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Phillips were all producing MSX hardware.
I will NOT acknowledge your argument since MSFT has their own view for their own MSX standard.
MSFT's view point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waahahah
MSX is not like Commodore's 8bit microcomputers with also shipped MS Basic ie. Commodore has hardware spec freedom.
MSFT spec'ed MSX to follow MSFT's set standards and downstream partners has follow MSFT's MSX standard.
MSX standard is MSFT's 3DO business model.
again, information dump. Who cares?
from you're link "Microsoft’s DOS and Windows operating systems"... PC gaming. Not console gaming. The fact that MSX point was standardization there were many models. The concept of "generation" is completely obliterated when they take the many model... standard platform approach. In other words... PC.
Again you're terrible at understanding basic context, I never claimed they weren't involved in gaming. Xbox is their branded hardware, they in the end own it, and its a clear distinction in they were consumers when building the box. Prior to that they were producers that provided an OS for ASCII, yamaha, sony, sega... etc etc for them to build hardware and use the windows/dos OS. I said its their ... *THEIR* 4th gen ofhardware. Which again is the truth for Scorpio.
So you're refute about MSFT being more right then me... well it isn't conflicting with what I said so it doesn't matter.
Who are you? YOU ARE NOT MSFT.
In terms of core hardware evolution freedom, MSX's hardware freedom is not like X86 PC.
"*THEIR* 4th gen ofhardware"
That's not correct, AMD has copyright symbols embedded on the chip itself. IP ownership remains with AMD not MS.
The main difference between MSX and XB is the manufacturing funding model i.e. MS runs out of game hardware partners to fund the manufacturing side.
Unless you'd like to go into detail how PC gaming is the same as console gaming?
Or how licensing software to a hardware manufacturer that goes and builds an entirely separate branded bit of hardware is identical to building you're own hardware and manufacturing it...
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
And in a general sense, yah MSFT can call their shit a console. But then again by the more general definition almost anything with a keypad/keyboard and a display of some sort is a console....
Unless you'd like to go into detail how PC gaming is the same as console gaming?
Or how licensing software to a hardware manufacturer that goes and builds an entirely separate branded bit of hardware is identical to building you're own hardware and manufacturing it...
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
And in a general sense, yah MSFT can call their shit a console. But then again by the more general definition almost anything with a keypad/keyboard and a display of some sort is a console....
MSX standard was defined by MSFT with ASCII Corporation as it's principal hardware partner. For Xbox One, AMD is the principal hardware partner.
Commodore defined it's 8 bit microcomputer specs and MS Basic was bundled in. MS has very little say over Commodore's 8bit microcomputers. Commodore's 8 bit microcomputers doubles as old school "game console" since it has game console like cartridge slot.
Downstream hardware partners has to follow the MSX standard just like 3DO's business model.
Downstream hardware partners funds MSX device manufacturing just like 3DO's business model. With Xbox, MSFT funds device manufacturing with usual PC ODM partners.
Your "*THEIR* 4th gen ofhardware" is not correct since AMD has copyright symbols embedded on the chip itself. IP ownership remains with AMD not MS.
For X86 PC... there's another giant gorilla defining the PC standards i.e. second and equal partner for "Wintel".
The main purpose for MSX's existence is for MSFT's control over Commodore 8bit like home microcomputers.
@waahahah said:
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
XBO also has different applications and it's not 100 percent game machine as in "old school" game consoles.
XBO has IE Edge and supports MS Office 365.
XBO's IE Edge leads to web app support e.g. Facebook and 'etc'.
XBO has support for Blu-ray videos.
XBO has support for apps to serve other media content besides games.
XBO has support for Skype phone call communications
Phil Spenser has promised full support for keyboard + mouse gaming for Xbox One.
The story behind the story: Forget about the consolization of the PC, Microsoft’s latest moves suggest the beginning of the ‘PC-ification’ of the Xbox. Even the next-gen Project Scorpio Xbox console sounds like a PC in a console shell, capable of 4K gaming and running VR. The Xbox One runs Windows 10, too.
With all these walls between the two platforms crumbling, adding keyboard and mouse support to the Xbox One will be a big step towards equality. Spencer even mused that popular e-sports games like League of Legends could potentially wind up on consoles once keyboard and mouse support rolls out.
MS wouldn't be in the Xbox hardware business if PC vendors risk their funds to build R7-360 or Vega 11 based game console at very low cost. MSFT's POV... Intel IGP is shit which doesn't fit MS's minimum gaming hardware requirements. MS's minimum gaming hardware requirements changes overtime.
AMD to self fund low cost 363 mm^2 size APU wouldn't happen e.g. AMD's largest self funded mainstream APU size is about 256 mm^2.
Unless you'd like to go into detail how PC gaming is the same as console gaming?
Or how licensing software to a hardware manufacturer that goes and builds an entirely separate branded bit of hardware is identical to building you're own hardware and manufacturing it...
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
And in a general sense, yah MSFT can call their shit a console. But then again by the more general definition almost anything with a keypad/keyboard and a display of some sort is a console....
MSX standard was defined by MSFT with ASCII Corporation as it's principal hardware partner. For Xbox One, AMD is the principal hardware partner.
Downstream hardware partners has to follow the MSX standard just like 3DO's business model.
Downstream hardware partners funds MSX device manufacturing just like 3DO's business model. With Xbox, MSFT funds device manufacturing with usual PC ODM partners.
Your "*THEIR* 4th gen ofhardware" isnot correct since AMD has copyright symbols embedded on the chip itself. IP ownership remains with AMD not MS.
For X86 PC... there's another giant gorilla defining the PC standards i.e. second and equal partner for "Wintel".
@waahahah said:
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
XBO also has different applications and it's not 100 percent game machine as in "old school" game consoles.
XBO has IE Edge and supports MS Office 365.
XBO's IE Edge leads to web app support e.g. Facebook and 'etc'.
XBO has support for Blu-ray videos.
XBO has support for apps to serve other media content besides games.
XBO has support for Skype phone call communications
Phil Spenser has promised full support for keyboard + mouse gaming for Xbox One.
The story behind the story: Forget about the consolization of the PC, Microsoft’s latest moves suggest the beginning of the ‘PC-ification’ of the Xbox. Even the next-gen Project Scorpio Xbox console sounds like a PC in a console shell, capable of 4K gaming and running VR. The Xbox One runs Windows 10, too.
With all these walls between the two platforms crumbling, adding keyboard and mouse support to the Xbox One will be a big step towards equality. Spencer even mused that popular e-sports games like League of Legends could potentially wind up on consoles once keyboard and mouse
You're still not arguing against the distinction from PC vs Console and what you're saying has relatively no impact on what I've said
3do = console still true (even if its a CONSOLE specification)
MSX = PC... still true (even if it's a PC specification)
xbox is M$'s first branded console... still true
scorpio 4th generation xbox console
Xbox is becoming a generalized entertainment console. Even with what's been said about scorpio they are still taking the walled garden approach. Gaming is forced to use xbox live servers so they can push monthly on customers. You can't update the OS without hacking, and
Windows CE was used in some car applications that M$ partnered with, does that mean M$ makes cars? No they make an OS they supply manufacturers and work them to get it up and running. Much the same AMD builds custom/embedded chips, they supplied M$ with hardware and xbox 360/one is M$'s in the end.
M$ has had plenty of input even in AMD standards, which then got into ps4, oh wait ps4 must be another M$ console based on you're standard because they helped with specification of hardware that found its way into the product! But sony had some stake in blu ray standards, so xbox one is also a sony console!
Project Scorpio is a new generation Console that is to be quite powerful in console terms. But will be backwards compatiable with Xbox one games. Microsoft is not terming this a next generation console. But a final brand console. The Xbox to bring an end to Xbox generations. Scorpio just means the console will be released November 2017. A traditional Xbox release time. MS wants this to be the final Xbox, (user upgradeable?)
You heard me right, I would like to know using an XDK and the new Dev Console that Microsoft creates for developers how will they create a game that is exclusive to Scorpio without it being something like VR?
Project Scorpio is a new generation Console that is to be quite powerful in console terms. But will be backwards compatiable with Xbox one games. Microsoft is not terming this a next generation console. But a final brand console. The Xbox to bring an end to Xbox generations. Scorpio just means the console will be released November 2017. A traditional Xbox release time. MS wants this to be the final Xbox, (user upgradeable?)
Scorpio isn't even next-gen, not really. If they keep it with the Xbox One family it's current gen, but they would be going the same route as Nintendo has since Wii U. Instead of making consoles that are leaps and bounds over the previous generation, they just release a system when they feel like it and I feel this is going to be a new trend. All the big 3 companies will start releasing new consoles at different times rather than the same year like we're used to. Scorpio is probably what the Xbox One SHOULD have been, but the parts were not marketable to consumers at the time.
A future flop with no games that MS is releasing to cover up for the fact that their previous console flopped and still has no games.
Lol, the cow fear is real.
And I bet it'll drive a lot of you cows nuts that Xbox will have the most powerful console... going by how much you all went on & on all gen about the power difference between PS4 & XB1, it'll kill you knowing that a superior version of a game is out there. LOL.
@hrt_rulz01: No fear here, my PC will rape whatever the Flopio specs are. I'm just calling it like I see it. You need games to sell a console not specs on a sheet of paper and Flopio still suffers from lack of games like the Xflop One. I predict it's gonna flop in sales and PS4 will come out the victor again this year by a huge margin. The general consumer wants games not an overpriced console with no exciting games to look forward to on the horizon. You're delusional if you think the reason the Xbone is failing is because of specs and not lack of worthwhile exclusives.
Seems like it's almost going to be a stripped down version of Windows 10 running on it, like it's going to be a Steam Machine type deal but with Windows.
@hrt_rulz01: No fear here, my PC will rape whatever the Flopio specs are. I'm just calling it like I see it. You need games to sell a console not specs on a sheet of paper and Flopio still suffers from lack of games like the Xflop One. I predict it's gonna flop in sales and PS4 will come out the victor again this year by a huge margin. The general consumer wants games not an overpriced console with no exciting games to look forward to on the horizon. You're delusional if you think the reason the Xbone is failing is because of specs and not lack of worthwhile exclusives.
Project Scorpio is the scariest device to be ever released. It has cause Sony fannies to loose their minds and causes them to think about it day and night. The power of the Scorpio is unrivaled. Just look at the first page.
The Scorpio is basically the equivalent of upgrading your PC mid Gen.
Scorpio is basically equivalent to upgrading your PC with Vega 11.
Vega 11 replaces Polaris 10.
@waahahah said:
@ronvalencia said:
@waahahah said:
@ronvalencia said:
Who are you? YOU ARE NOT MSFT.
And? Again not conflicting with what I said....
Unless you'd like to go into detail how PC gaming is the same as console gaming?
Or how licensing software to a hardware manufacturer that goes and builds an entirely separate branded bit of hardware is identical to building you're own hardware and manufacturing it...
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
And in a general sense, yah MSFT can call their shit a console. But then again by the more general definition almost anything with a keypad/keyboard and a display of some sort is a console....
MSX standard was defined by MSFT with ASCII Corporation as it's principal hardware partner. For Xbox One, AMD is the principal hardware partner.
Downstream hardware partners has to follow the MSX standard just like 3DO's business model.
Downstream hardware partners funds MSX device manufacturing just like 3DO's business model. With Xbox, MSFT funds device manufacturing with usual PC ODM partners.
Your "*THEIR* 4th gen ofhardware" isnot correct since AMD has copyright symbols embedded on the chip itself. IP ownership remains with AMD not MS.
For X86 PC... there's another giant gorilla defining the PC standards i.e. second and equal partner for "Wintel".
@waahahah said:
the MSX was still considered a PC, had a keyboard and different applications. The 3DO did not. It was a game console all the way.
XBO also has different applications and it's not 100 percent game machine as in "old school" game consoles.
XBO has IE Edge and supports MS Office 365.
XBO's IE Edge leads to web app support e.g. Facebook and 'etc'.
XBO has support for Blu-ray videos.
XBO has support for apps to serve other media content besides games.
XBO has support for Skype phone call communications
Phil Spenser has promised full support for keyboard + mouse gaming for Xbox One.
The story behind the story: Forget about the consolization of the PC, Microsoft’s latest moves suggest the beginning of the ‘PC-ification’ of the Xbox. Even the next-gen Project Scorpio Xbox console sounds like a PC in a console shell, capable of 4K gaming and running VR. The Xbox One runs Windows 10, too.
With all these walls between the two platforms crumbling, adding keyboard and mouse support to the Xbox One will be a big step towards equality. Spencer even mused that popular e-sports games like League of Legends could potentially wind up on consoles once keyboard and mouse
You're still not arguing against the distinction from PC vs Console and what you're saying has relatively no impact on what I've said
3do = console still true (even if its a CONSOLE specification)
MSX = PC... still true (even if it's a PC specification)
xbox is M$'s first branded console... still true
scorpio 4th generation xbox console
Xbox is becoming a generalized entertainment console. Even with what's been said about scorpio they are still taking the walled garden approach. Gaming is forced to use xbox live servers so they can push monthly on customers. You can't update the OS without hacking, and
Windows CE was used in some car applications that M$ partnered with, does that mean M$ makes cars? No they make an OS they supply manufacturers and work them to get it up and running. Much the same AMD builds custom/embedded chips, they supplied M$ with hardware and xbox 360/one is M$'s in the end.
M$ has had plenty of input even in AMD standards, which then got into ps4, oh wait ps4 must be another M$ console based on you're standard because they helped with specification of hardware that found its way into the product! But sony had some stake in blu ray standards, so xbox one is also a sony console!
Original Xbox can play DVD movies with an add-on device.
The point you constantly miss is MSX is MS's first game centric device as per MS employee's statements.
Project Scorpio is the scariest device to be ever released. It has cause Sony fannies to loose their minds and causes them to think about it day and night. The power of the Scorpio is unrivaled. Just look at the first page.
Log in to comment