What makes a PC a better investment?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]That cash flow or the savings you get from games, while indirect, are still a source of savings/revenue that can't easily be discredited. its an investment, end of story.thinicer

I'm sorry, how exactly are you receiving cash flow or savings from playing games?

Sounds like your interpretation of an "investment" is totally different than my own, and that's why we're butting heads on this. End of story.

Easily. Lets say hypothetically you buy 20 games for the PC as opposed to 20 game sfor a console over the span of a geneation. That right there is easily a 200 dollar savings margin if you were to buy the game on the PC. You save money as opposed to consoles.Vandalvideo

Ummmm, an investment is not something that "saves" you money compared to something else. It is something that MAKES you money. A gaming PC, an Xbox 360, or a Playstation 3, those things do not put money in your pocket. They do not appreciate in value, they do not make you richer, and they certainly don't keep your money safe over a long period of time like, say, a mutual fund. They are depreciable assets. They are cost centers. You buy the hardware, and then you keep buying the games and no matter how you look at it, the end result is the consumer spending money, money, money. That is not an investment in my book.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Easily. Lets say hypothetically you buy 20 games for the PC as opposed to 20 game sfor a console over the span of a geneation. That right there is easily a 200 dollar savings margin if you were to buy the game on the PC. You save money as opposed to consoles.thinicer

Ummmm, an investment is not something that "saves" you money compared to something else. It is something that MAKES you money. A gaming PC, an Xbox 360, or a Playstation 3, those things do not put money in your pocket. They do not appreciate in value, they do not make you richer, and they certainly don't keep your money safe over a long period of time like, say, a mutual fund. They are depreciable assets. They are cost centers. You buy the hardware, and then you keep buying the games and no matter how you look at it, the end result is the consumer spending money, money, money. That is not an investment in my book.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Easily. Lets say hypothetically you buy 20 games for the PC as opposed to 20 game sfor a console over the span of a geneation. That right there is easily a 200 dollar savings margin if you were to buy the game on the PC. You save money as opposed to consoles.thinicer

Ummmm, an investment is not something that "saves" you money compared to something else. It is something that MAKES you money. A gaming PC, an Xbox 360, or a Playstation 3, those things do not put money in your pocket. They do not appreciate in value, they do not make you richer, and they certainly don't keep your money safe over a long period of time like, say, a mutual fund. They are depreciable assets. They are cost centers. You buy the hardware, and then you keep buying the games and no matter how you look at it, the end result is the consumer spending money, money, money. That is not an investment in my book.

What if you're a pro gamer, making money off his PC gaming machine by owning the competition?

[QUOTE="MadExponent"]

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]Because you get mods! If the game doesn't come with a feature, just utter those ever popular words: "It can be modded in later." Hell, PC games can ship half done! Never fear though, it can be modded up later because you and I know PC games ship incomplete anyways.Sir_Graham

Thats funny. What is even more funny is that you come on these forums and you talk up a game like Halo 3 and expect to be respected here.

What is wrong with Halo 3 :| People who have been here a lot longer than you and who aren't fanboys have been enjoying the game. If you don't agree that's fine but don't talk about respect when your a noob compared to some people, including the reviewer.

Nothing wrong with Halo 3 per se'. Pro Wrestler is a RABID lemming and I don't appreciate it when he attacks PC gaming...

Investment can also be defined as the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns. That includes the saving of money from products.Vandalvideo

Yes, and a gaming PC, unfortunately, does not fall under that category. Spending upwards of $1000 over the course of 5 years on hardware and games is not an investment. It would be an investment if the end result, based on that activity (gaming) is if it makes you $1500 richer, meaning it puts you in the green and you can use that money towards something else. Unfortunately, a gaming PC does not do this. If gaming on a PC costs $1000 over the course of 3 years, and $1200 on the Playstation 3 over that same time period and the activity is exactly the same (gaming) it makes neither of them an investment - you are still in the red no matter which way you look at it. It just means that PC gaming isn't as much of a cost and it does not appreciate in value.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Investment can also be defined as the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns. That includes the saving of money from products.thinicer

Yes, and a gaming PC, unfortunately, does not fall under that category. Spending upwards of $1000 over the course of 5 years on hardware and games is not an investment. It would be an investment if the end result, based on that activity (gaming) is if it makes you $1500 richer, meaning it puts you in the green and you can use that money towards something else. Unfortunately, a gaming PC does not do this. If gaming on a PC costs $1000 over the course of 3 years, and $1200 on the Playstation 3 over that same time period and the activity is exactly the same (gaming) it makes neither of them an investment - you are still in the red no matter which way you look at it. It just means that PC gaming isn't as much of a cost and it does not appreciate in value.

[QUOTE="sadikovic"]

[QUOTE="defkt"]new rules.... if you're a cynic with no life and the closest thing to a girlfriend you have is a bottle of jergens and your palm, please omit your attempts at critizing word choice, grammar, etc.... to feel "alpha" in your own special way;) People in my situation need answers to influence our purchases, not you acting out anger about your social life (or lack therof).defkt

From a gaming perspective its choice and opinion!

From an investement point of view its logic that makes a PC a better investement

So this thread/question FAILS tremendlessly.

Bold enough to admit to this.... " if you're a cynic with no life and the closest thing to a girlfriend you have is a bottle of jergens and your palm...." Great, now everyone knows you play pocket pool professionally. good job!

I am surrpsied this hasn't gotten modded yet.. Stop trolling and stick tot he point at hand..

The PC is great imo for these reasons...

-Versatile price range, you can build a computer for as cheap as $500 to $700 (minus OS)to play 99.9% of games out there very well.

-It is versatile in the sense you can do anything you want other then gaming.

-Best multiplayer possible.

-Modding community adding unlimited playtime on some games.

-Its a great platform that evolves.. Meaning that a game you could notmax today in a few yeras you max it easy and can play a great classic with a completely different experience..

- have access to the largest library otu there at day one.. From the cutting edge games to the classics made in 1995.

-The largest amount of AAA's and AA's for any platform out htere.. Both in recent and in past.

-Arguably th ebest experiences in Turned based strategy, Real time strategy, First person shooter, certain types of role playing games, MMo's of all kinds, as well as many other genres out there such as puzzles, adventure, and simulations etc etc..

... It has the best controls out there.. Mouse and Keyboard for numerous genres. And when those controls don't work well on certain games, a cheap $10 gamepad can do it for you...

... Arguably the best sound for the cheapest price..

... In the end I think the computer is best for these reasons.. Of course there is minuses such as some hiccups in errors, but smart research alot of time can fix this.. In the end it requires intelligence and a attention span thats far longer then a average console gamer.. But in the end these minuses are outwieghed immensely by the positives..

Now this is not to say that consoles are bad, I love split screen.. One of my all time favorite games out there was playign with 3 friends of mine Marvel Ultimate alliance. But I just prefer computer over ocnsole for these reasons.

An investment doesn't necessarily have to put you in the green to be an investment. An investment is the contribution of principal in order to gain profitable returns or benefits. That includes ANY benefits or profits. Comparievly speaking, the PC is a better investment as opposed to consoles, because you gain a relatively large benefit from a myriad of decreased prices on online play and games.Vandalvideo

No, it just makes the PC a possible better option, not an investment. I do not view buying video game systems and PCs as investments because neither makes you money at all. Both cost money. Both take it out of your pocket and do not give you any back, they don't give you any monetary return. Sure, you may get some personal enjoyment out of it, but that's it. They are cost centers just like an automobile, and just like an automobile they are necessities - like eating food. We have to pay for food, but hey...if we don't then we will die, right? Do you view food as an investment too?

A car is not an investment either because you always have to put money into it - insurance, gasoline, maintenance, etc. and it always depreciates in value. I have never once heard somebody say, "I should get a Honda over a Lexus because it would be a better investment!"

So now that you know clearly what my interpretation is of an "investment", there is nothing more that needs to be said. Your view differs than mine, and that's fine with me.

I haven't treated myself in a while. This holiday season, I'm thinking about finally getting into PC gaming. I want the best investment possible. btw, the bolding is so I see the lines clearly.

I want to know:

1. What makes an investment in a $1000+ PCbetter than buying a $400 plug&play xbox 360?
2. **MAJOR** Why has it been worth it to make the extra investments over the years?
3. How long do top of the line graphics cards take to look dated and how much of an advantage( if any) does that pose over consoles?
4. From your previous experiences, how much do you usually spend on upgrades, etc.... and how long after your original purchase is it required to maintain great visual/processor quality?How much look can you recoop(I'm going to an icy hell for spelling and grammar, I know) from selling parts, and what advantage(monetary/performance) does that give over buying into the new console cycle?
5. Price/Game still worth it after hardware costs?
6. Any other tidbits of info that will steer me into finalizing an Antec900/8800GTS-320/Core2 /2gbRAM order on newegg....

Speak wise ones......defkt

2. Constantly improving graphics, I don't have to wait for 5 years for a new console, I upgrade when I feel like it AND in addition to new games it makes ALL my old games look and play better too.

3. 4 years tops, unless you're ready to lower graphic settings considerably. Depends tho when you upgrade.

4. Every 2 years you need to upgrade something, top of the line components naturally last longer. I got this computer about 2.5 years ago for 900. I've added Ram and changed the videocard, cost about 200 and runs games on high. Before I hit the 3 year mark I will prolly upgrade the rest of it, costs about 300. Not too bad imo, once you got all the basic parts you can basically renew your whole computer by getting a new GPU, CPU and Ram, and those aren't that expensive in the end.

5. Certainly, games are alot cheaper on PC, you have free games, massive amount of demos and mods that add longevity to games. PC games are a lot better value for money.

Edit
Oh, and 6.
PC is the most versatile system out there no doubt. If you've got the cash you can customize your experience completely. Build your own command center in Supreme Commander using 2 monitors. Get the ultimate simulation experience with Trackir and top of the line joystick. Reenact the battle of Helm from LOTR using mods in Total War etc.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]An investment doesn't necessarily have to put you in the green to be an investment. An investment is the contribution of principal in order to gain profitable returns or benefits. That includes ANY benefits or profits. Comparievly speaking, the PC is a better investment as opposed to consoles, because you gain a relatively large benefit from a myriad of decreased prices on online play and games.thinicer

No, it just makes the PC a possible better option, not an investment. I do not view buying video game systems and PCs as investments because neither makes you money at all. Both cost money. Both take it out of your pocket and do not give you any back, they don't give you any monetary return. Sure, you may get some personal enjoyment out of it, but that's it. They are cost centers just like an automobile, and just like an automobile they are necessities - like eating food. We have to pay for food, but hey...if we don't then we will die, right? Do you view food as an investment too?

A car is not an investment either because you always have to put money into it - insurance, gasoline, maintenance, etc. and it always depreciates in value. I have never once heard somebody say, "I should get a Honda over a Lexus because it would be a better investment!"

So now that you know clearly what my interpretation is of an "investment", there is nothing more that needs to be said. Your view differs than mine, and that's fine with me.

i think he confuses a better deal with an investment. a better deal can lead to an investment if you use the money you saved an put it into something that will give a return. but that thing you bought originally is not making any money. it's like how a woman can shop at a Designer Boutique or Walmart for clothe. they would save more at walmart but lets see them tell their husband that it was an investment. :lol:

Nothing wrong with Halo 3 per se'. Pro Wrestler is a RABID lemming and I don't appreciate it when he attacks PC gaming...MadExponent

Fair enough. Don't mind me. i have been drinking tonight and it doesn't take much to set me off. That said, Halo 3 had nothing to do with what we was being discussed and there was no reason to bring it up. Attack the argument presented not the games someone enjoys.

i think he confuses a better deal with an investment. a better deal can lead to an investment if you use the money you saved an put it into something that will give a return. but that thing you bought originally is not making any money. it's like how a woman can shop at a Designer Boutique or Walmart for clothe. they would save more at walmart but lets see them tell their husband that it was an investment. :lol:

Ontain

Yeah, a better deal does not equal an investment. Getting a quarter pounder with cheese at McD's instead of a $8.00 burger at Ruby Tuesdays does not make the quarter pounder an investment. Give me a break.

By the way, Star Control 2 rules. :)

A PC can do more than just game, and is completely upgradeable at your whim.SpruceCaboose

True but my 3 year old PC can do all that which a new PC can do. I aslo have a 360 now and kinda renders useless buying a new PC since most games are all on the 360 and spending $1000 just to play Crysis isn't worth it IMO.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]A PC can do more than just game, and is completely upgradeable at your whim.turgore

True but my 3 year old PC can do all that which a new PC can do. I aslo have a 360 now and kinda renders useless buying a new PC since most games are all on the 360 and spending $1000 just to play Crysis isn't worth it IMO.

[QUOTE="turgore"]

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]A PC can do more than just game, and is completely upgradeable at your whim.Vandalvideo

True but my 3 year old PC can do all that which a new PC can do. I aslo have a 360 now and kinda renders useless buying a new PC since most games are all on the 360 and spending $1000 just to play Crysis isn't worth it IMO.

I don't get that either. Some console gamers assume that people get a PC simply for one game. I on the other hand use my PC so much for so many different reasons that it just makes them sound silly when they make these claims. I play many many games on my PC and Crysis just so happens to be one of the best ones to come this year...key phrase is "one of".

1. this is only my imho but i really get a kick out of putting my own rig together. its nto some carbon copy machine thats exactly the same as everyone elses...its my PC...configured to work in the way i like it to work. in a way, the PC itself is also a hobby of mine, not just the games i play on it. a PC also does lots of other stuff but thats not relly relevent here...so i just mentioned it. finally PCs are more powerful than consoles and they get some crackin games that either wont appear on consoles or appear in a compromised state.

2. im not going to beat around the bush here...my PC gaming has been more expensive than my console gaming. has it been worth it though? absolutely. missing out on games like R:TW was simply not an option fo me. PC games are also quite a bit cheaper over here and the PC tends to get the best version of most games (games like GTA and KOTOR are nicer to play on PC imho). PC also has an absolutely crackin back catalogue of old games which are just brilliant.

3. thats a diffiacult question answer because it really comes down to the individuals wants. if u want to play games at max details and at max reses (max res on PC is much higher than HD 1080p) then getting hardware to support that is going to hugely expensive and updates will be required alot. personally my low limit is med-high settings with no AA or AF at 1280X1024. my past experience with this is that top of the range cards last years if these settings are acceptable. also top of the line PC graphics cards are alot more powerful than a consoles graphics chip. this gap will continue to widen as time goes by,

4. i generally go nuts on the initial config of a new rig. i then dont touch it for 3-4 years. i might throw in a second GTX into this one and maybe another gig o ram in about 18 months...just to give it an extra kick. however by the time im building my next rig, i expect that everything in this one will be completly redundent.

5. over here in europe, PC games can be up to 25 euro cheaper than the same game on a console. thats quite a bit o moolah imho.

PC can do so such more than a console. PC can handle not only gaming but tons of stuffs so it's clearly a better investment. Since you're using a PC in posting why don't you upgrade it into a gaming PC? I've been a PC only gamer for 10 years. In the past years I've never bought high-end video cards only low-end and middle-end but I was still able to run games that were new. You just need to know more about PC hardware.

My ATI Radeon 9550 which was released last 2002 or 2003 was still able to run NWN2 at low graphics. I'm not a grahics whore. If you want to experience great graphics buy a high-end video card and it will last you long enough for you to buy another one.

Game Mods.
Versatile so you can do other stuff with it.
Parts are usually upgradeable.
free online gaming except for MMORPG.
The PC version of any game is usually cheaper at launch and tends to drop in price quicker compare to console version.
Emulators to play those last gen games.
You can get old games for free if you know what I mean.

The only bad. isyou miss out on the console exclusive games like Warhawk (just an example)gamenux

QFT. I totally agree with that one. I regretted I haven't played OoT, MM, original SM64, Perfect Dark, Banjo,etc.

Yup thats why 360 games are experience just as many issues than PC games.

*looks back to the Bioshock widescreen fiasco*

Yea mods certainly did fix it for PC gamers, though according to your logic 360 gamers were stuck with the 'incomplete version'.

Interesting.

edit*

Oh and more irony comming from halo fans: 'Forge is so great because you can fix and modify any game mode'
So Halo 3 multiplayer is 'incomplete' according to your logic - thus warranting Forge, so players can fix faults themselves.

:roll:

skrat_01

Lol that was sarcasm. Though its funny that someone got their feelings hurt and decided to TOS what I said as if the same misconceptions don't come from your end. *Sigh* Hypocrites.

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]Because you get mods! If the game doesn't come with a feature, just utter those ever popular words: "It can be modded in later." Hell, PC games can ship half done! Never fear though, it can be modded up later because you and I know PC games ship incomplete anyways.MadExponent

Thats funny. What is even more funny is that you come on these forums and you talk up a game like Halo 3 and expect to be respected here.

I think theres a difference between you and I. I don't care for and are not interested in anyones respect here... I guess you expect everyone to respect you because you tout your overly expensive PC specs in your sig?

T3h internet...serious business right here:(

Oh boy. Asking about this in the SW forums probably isn't the best idea, but...

What makes an investment in a $1000+ PCbetter than buying a $400 plug&play xbox 360?defkt

One of the reasons is the ability for a PC to do more than just games. A second may be that the cost of consoles can also include accessories, and in the Box's case pretty overpriced ones.

**MAJOR** Why has it been worth it to make the extra investments over the years?defkt

Because you're able to get things on the PC which are not available on any console, having superior raw processing power and a better interface (i.e., keyboard + mouse). Certain types of games also cater to the PC crowd (I'm thinking mostly of strategy games).

How long do top of the line graphics cards take to look dated and how much of an advantage( if any) does that pose over consoles?defkt

Not sure what you mean by "look dated". The top of the line card currently, 8800GTX, is able to render better than the PS3 or the 360 at this point, but it only runs Crysis moderately well (high settings, decent resolution, minimal AA/AF). It'll certainly look better than consoles given the monitor's higher resolution and the PC GPU's fast turnover rate, it's just a matter of value (the 8800GTX costs more than a console by itself).

From your previous experiences, how much do you usually spend on upgrades, etc.... and how long after your original purchase is it required to maintain great visual/processor quality?How much look can you recoop(I'm going to an icy hell for spelling and grammar, I know) from selling parts, and what advantage(monetary/performance) does that give over buying into the new console cycle?defkt

I like to upgrade something every year to year and a half, and I go for value; you really do pay a premium for top-of-the-line PC hardware, and something like the 8800GTX is unnecessary when the 8800GTS is half as cheap and has 3/4'ths of the performance. That said, if you stagger your upgrades - a GPU one year, a CPU/MoBo the next, maybe some RAM in between - you're looking at $300-$400 per year in keeping your PC up to date. If your components are two years ago, you can expect half price in resell value, putting your overall spending per year at maybe $200.

Price/Game still worth it after hardware costs?defkt

Definitely. PC games drop in price faster than console games; Orange Box is only $40 at Amazon right now!

Any other tidbits of info that will steer me into finalizing an Antec900/8800GTS-320/Core2 /2gbRAM order on newegg....defkt

The prices of PC's vs. consoles are always skewed for some reason. PC's can reuse a lot of their parts (case, hard/disk drives, at the very least), and consoles run much better with expensive accessories, plus the price difference in games and hardware selection/competition on the PC gives you much more options. One "price" that PC gamers do pay is the time invested in building a rig and maintaining it; setting up the comp, installing your OS, looking for graphics drivers monthly, dealing with incompatibilities, etc. are all things that PC enthuasists are used to but may be a turnoff for a console gamer.

[QUOTE="Sir_Graham"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]Because you get mods! If the game doesn't come with a feature, just utter those ever popular words: "It can be modded in later." Hell, PC games can ship half done! Never fear though, it can be modded up later because you and I know PC games ship incomplete anyways.MadExponent

Thats funny. What is even more funny is that you come on these forums and you talk up a game like Halo 3 and expect to be respected here.

What is wrong with Halo 3 :| People who have been here a lot longer than you and who aren't fanboys have been enjoying the game. If you don't agree that's fine but don't talk about respect when your a noob compared to some people, including the reviewer.

Nothing wrong with Halo 3 per se'. Pro Wrestler is a RABID lemming and I don't appreciate it when he attacks PC gaming...

False! I'm a lemming because I own a 360? But I own a PC too and I regularly play Far Cry so does that make me hermit? Oh I must be a cow since I love Gran Turismo and own a PS2:(. And to your last statement, you sir are the very definition of biased.

The fact that you aren't trap to buy a PS3 or a 360 since most of the big games are comming to PC and Capcom is showing more strong support so RE5 and Bionic Comando are bound for PC.

Also you don't have to choose between Blue Ray or HDDVD yet.

Also, monitors are cheaper than HDTVs and they are now more and more compatible with old TV cables. You don't need anything bigger than a 24 inch LCD monitor when you are right in front of it.

I haven't treated myself in a while. This holiday season, I'm thinking about finally getting into PC gaming. I want the best investment possible. btw, the bolding is so I see the lines clearly.

I want to know:

1. What makes an investment in a $1000+ PCbetter than buying a $400 plug&play xbox 360?
2. **MAJOR** Why has it been worth it to make the extra investments over the years?
3. How long do top of the line graphics cards take to look dated and how much of an advantage( if any) does that pose over consoles?
4. From your previous experiences, how much do you usually spend on upgrades, etc.... and how long after your original purchase is it required to maintain great visual/processor quality?How much look can you recoop(I'm going to an icy hell for spelling and grammar, I know) from selling parts, and what advantage(monetary/performance) does that give over buying into the new console cycle?
5. Price/Game still worth it after hardware costs?
6. Any other tidbits of info that will steer me into finalizing an Antec900/8800GTS-320/Core2 /2gbRAM order on newegg....

Speak wise ones......defkt

I bought my 7800 GTX 256 mb june 2005 and i can still play any game today on max basically including unreal tournament 3.

Oh boy. Asking about this in the SW forums probably isn't the best idea, but...

[QUOTE="defkt"]What makes an investment in a $1000+ PCbetter than buying a $400 plug&play xbox 360?Datheron

One of the reasons is the ability for a PC to do more than just games. A second may be that the cost of consoles can also include accessories, and in the Box's case pretty overpriced ones.

**MAJOR** Why has it been worth it to make the extra investments over the years?defkt

Because you're able to get things on the PC which are not available on any console, having superior raw processing power and a better interface (i.e., keyboard + mouse). Certain types of games also cater to the PC crowd (I'm thinking mostly of strategy games).

How long do top of the line graphics cards take to look dated and how much of an advantage( if any) does that pose over consoles?defkt

Not sure what you mean by "look dated". The top of the line card currently, 8800GTX, is able to render better than the PS3 or the 360 at this point, but it only runs Crysis moderately well (high settings, decent resolution, minimal AA/AF). It'll certainly look better than consoles given the monitor's higher resolution and the PC GPU's fast turnover rate, it's just a matter of value (the 8800GTX costs more than a console by itself).

From your previous experiences, how much do you usually spend on upgrades, etc.... and how long after your original purchase is it required to maintain great visual/processor quality?How much look can you recoop(I'm going to an icy hell for spelling and grammar, I know) from selling parts, and what advantage(monetary/performance) does that give over buying into the new console cycle?defkt

I like to upgrade something every year to year and a half, and I go for value; you really do pay a premium for top-of-the-line PC hardware, and something like the 8800GTX is unnecessary when the 8800GTS is half as cheap and has 3/4'ths of the performance. That said, if you stagger your upgrades - a GPU one year, a CPU/MoBo the next, maybe some RAM in between - you're looking at $300-$400 per year in keeping your PC up to date. If your components are two years ago, you can expect half price in resell value, putting your overall spending per year at maybe $200.

Price/Game still worth it after hardware costs?defkt

Definitely. PC games drop in price faster than console games; Orange Box is only $40 at Amazon right now!

Any other tidbits of info that will steer me into finalizing an Antec900/8800GTS-320/Core2 /2gbRAM order on newegg....defkt

The prices of PC's vs. consoles are always skewed for some reason. PC's can reuse a lot of their parts (case, hard/disk drives, at the very least), and consoles run much better with expensive accessories, plus the price difference in games and hardware selection/competition on the PC gives you much more options. One "price" that PC gamers do pay is the time invested in building a rig and maintaining it; setting up the comp, installing your OS, looking for graphics drivers monthly, dealing with incompatibilities, etc. are all things that PC enthuasists are used to but may be a turnoff for a console gamer.

Are you serious? CPU and MoBO last 2 years? Tell me ONE game that will push the C2D6550 to its limits? And that without overclocking...hell we have lived with 512kb cache/800mhz FSB CPUs for half a decade...this thing ha 4mb of cache and 1333FSB...

Also is there a new GPU slot coming? Cause AGP lasted more than 6 years...PCIE wont last any shorter...so we have just RAM (which is dirt cheap) and GPU...I can bet that a $150 CPU in late 2008 will smash both consoles...

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Yup thats why 360 games are experience just as many issues than PC games.

*looks back to the Bioshock widescreen fiasco*

Yea mods certainly did fix it for PC gamers, though according to your logic 360 gamers were stuck with the 'incomplete version'.

Interesting.

edit*

Oh and more irony comming from halo fans: 'Forge is so great because you can fix and modify any game mode'
So Halo 3 multiplayer is 'incomplete' according to your logic - thus warranting Forge, so players can fix faults themselves.

:roll:

Pro_wrestler

Lol that was sarcasm. Though its funny that someone got their feelings hurt and decided to TOS what I said as if the same misconceptions don't come from your end. *Sigh* Hypocrites.

My feelings are hardly hurt, and drawing the line between sarcasm and honesty with such a comment - especially on sytstem wars, isnt that obvius.

And im pretty sure there is no TOS in my post. At all.
Off the topic, for replying to 'sarcastic' response?

[QUOTE="gamenux"]Game Mods.
Versatile so you can do other stuff with it.
Parts are usually upgradeable.
free online gaming except for MMORPG.
The PC version of any game is usually cheaper at launch and tends to drop in price quicker compare to console version.
Emulators to play those last gen games.
You can get old games for free if you know what I mean.

The only bad. isyou miss out on the console exclusive games like Warhawk (just an example)lordlors

QFT. I totally agree with that one. I regretted I haven't played OoT, MM, original SM64, Perfect Dark, Banjo,etc.

Nothing is forcing you to miss out on those games, though, so why is it "the only bad"? It's bad for you, not for everyone else with a high-end PC who can also afford an N64 or PS2 to play on the side. PC gaming doesn't inherently mean you can't own consoles. It's purely your choice.

Are you serious? CPU and MoBO last 2 years? Tell me ONE game that will push the C2D6550 to its limits? And that without overclocking...hell we have lived with 512kb cache/800mhz FSB CPUs for half a decade...this thing ha 4mb of cache and 1333FSB...

Also is there a new GPU slot coming? Cause AGP lasted more than 6 years...PCIE wont last any shorter...so we have just RAM (which is dirt cheap) and GPU...I can bet that a $150 CPU in late 2008 will smash both consoles...True_Gamer_

Was the Core 2 Duo even available two years ago? When I built my rig two and a half years ago I put in a low-end Athlon 64 3000+; the fastest the processors at the time were the 4400+'s, just before the X2's were released and even then prohibitively expensive. Now X2's are on the low end and can be had for cheap.

My experience has been that processor sockets last two years (e.g., the 939 sockets, now the X2's, with the P4's and C2D's on the Intel side), and thatif you're lucky and you spend the money buying a relatively new socket you can still use it two years later; otherwise you're looking at a new MoBo with a new CPU when the time comes.

And RAM? They're $100 for 2GB's now, used to be $80 for 1 GB a year and a half-two years ago. Is that considered "dirt cheap"?

As for the GPU, $150 will get you a X1950GT now, which still runs games pretty good albeit at lower resolutions with everything turned on. The sweet spot is still around the $250-$300 range if you buy now; the same card will not last you a year unless you enjoy running games gimped at 800x600 with everything set on medium.

1 does much more that just games, how doyou run photoshop on x360

2 $10 x 10 =$1000 saved on games in 1 year

3 complete controls customization

4 faster load times

My pc is getting on for 2 years old and can still run every game on high settings and in many cases better settings than x360 uses, last upgrade was over a year ago, unless you count hdd upgrade which wasn't game related

The main thing that make a pc a much better investment is it does so much more than a console, how do you post on gs from your console? write essays, watch online videos, share files, edit/record video etc etc?

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]it isn't a better investment, I've got a friend who has spent over $35,000 in the last 6 months up-grading his PC, and yet it still can't run Doom 1 at a consistent frame rate.SpruceCaboose

Wow. That is so blatanly false I cannot believe a real person actually typed that.

how in the **** could you spend $35000 in 6 months on pc hardware? that's like a new cpu/gpu/monitior every day

[QUOTE="Yongying"]

People don't buy these gaming pc because

1. Most people here age from 10-20 and live at home with family.

2. Everyone here has a PC and use it for information, design ect ect and could care less about FPS RTS ect ect

3. Alot of games that people like and love don't come out for the PC.

4. You need money, either by having a job (most people here don't and are studying) or having really nice or wealthy parents.

5. Some parents/people will find it stupid to have 2 PC's in the house.

5. If i were to spend a pc that can run crysis then i'd rather live alone, a nagging sister that wants to use MSN is anoying, a mum that wants to listen to 80's music while sweeping the floor is anoying, a dad that wants to see some porn before going to work is anoying.

6. People could buy a pswii60 for the same price.

7. This is System wars, most people here are kids - teens. Hermits try to convince these people but it is their parents that need convincing. Try a site that has a more adult user base.

8. Hermits are the biggest graphic slaves of all.

SpruceCaboose

You do realize that having a gaming level PC would also improve that machines capabilites in every area you use a PC, correct? Upgrading the RAM and Video card would make any PC run better, its not just for games.

exatly, my laptop can run all the same programs as my desktop but many of them run so slow its just not worth it

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]it isn't a better investment, I've got a friend who has spent over $35,000 in the last 6 months up-grading his PC, and yet it still can't run Doom 1 at a consistent frame rate.imprezawrx500

Wow. That is so blatanly false I cannot believe a real person actually typed that.

how in the **** could you spend $35000 in 6 months on pc hardware? that's like a new cpu/gpu/monitior every day

I think we can chalk that up to sarcasm.

Plus PC doesn't get great games very often. X360PS3AMD05

Looks at GS scores.

Ahem apparantly PC has more AAA and AA titles and exclusives.
That is alot of great games.

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]Are you serious? CPU and MoBO last 2 years? Tell me ONE game that will push the C2D6550 to its limits? And that without overclocking...hell we have lived with 512kb cache/800mhz FSB CPUs for half a decade...this thing ha 4mb of cache and 1333FSB...

Also is there a new GPU slot coming? Cause AGP lasted more than 6 years...PCIE wont last any shorter...so we have just RAM (which is dirt cheap) and GPU...I can bet that a $150 CPU in late 2008 will smash both consoles...Datheron

Was the Core 2 Duo even available two years ago? When I built my rig two and a half years ago I put in a low-end Athlon 64 3000+; the fastest the processors at the time were the 4400+'s, just before the X2's were released and even then prohibitively expensive. Now X2's are on the low end and can be had for cheap.

My experience has been that processor sockets last two years (e.g., the 939 sockets, now the X2's, with the P4's and C2D's on the Intel side), and thatif you're lucky and you spend the money buying a relatively new socket you can still use it two years later; otherwise you're looking at a new MoBo with a new CPU when the time comes.

And RAM? They're $100 for 2GB's now, used to be $80 for 1 GB a year and a half-two years ago. Is that considered "dirt cheap"?

As for the GPU, $150 will get you a X1950GT now, which still runs games pretty good albeit at lower resolutions with everything turned on. The sweet spot is still around the $250-$300 range if you buy now; the same card will not last you a year unless you enjoy running games gimped at 800x600 with everything set on medium.

Thats the key to shopping at the right time...Dual cores will last as far as single cores lasted last gen....Go and check every last benchmark out there the CPU plays the LAST role in games after RAM and GPU... And hwat it has to do with the socket? If ones doesnt need to upgrade the CPU for 5 years (Hell games had single core CPUs as RECOMMENDED specs up until last year) whats the point of the socket? Plus we all know how far the PCIE will got judging from AGP.

As for RAM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000170147+1052307858+1052408745&name=DDR2+667+(PC2+5300)

$25-$30....

So youre saying that a 8800GTS doesnt cream teh PS3 now? How much will it cost in a year if it costs $260 now?

Thats the key to shopping at the right time...Dual cores will last as far as single cores lasted last gen....Go and check every last benchmark out there the CPU plays the LAST role in games after RAM and GPU...True_Gamer_

That's great, it doesn't mean it's unimportant, just less important than other components, sure. Two years ago there were no dual cores, today Crysis recommends a dual core system to run, so yes, I'd say around 2 years.

And you just sound stupid when you say "dual cores will last as far as single cores lasted last gen". Before multiple cores all x86 processors were single core...so you keep your Pentium w/ MMX running in there.

And hwat it has to do with the socket? If ones doesnt need to upgrade the CPU for 5 years (Hell games had single core CPUs as RECOMMENDED specs up until last year) whats the point of the socket? Plus we all know how far the PCIE will got judging from AGP.True_Gamer_

I never claimed that the PCIe standard was going anywhere.

But for processor...well, suppose what you say is true, let's look at what was available in 2002:

http://www.cpuscorecard.com/bench_ip4.htm

Your top of the line CPU's were the P4 2.8 GHz and XP 2600+ CPU's, both of which were fetching a good $500-$600, and both of which will barely run today's games if at all. I personally find spending $150 on a CPU + $100 on a MoBo every two years and selling what I have to be at least the same cost and you get the luxury of being up-to-date.

As for RAM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000170147+1052307858+1052408745&name=DDR2+667+(PC2+5300)

$25-$30....True_Gamer_

Holy crap - you're linking me to RAM sticks with CAS Latencies of 5, most of which come from crappy brands? Any system builder should know that RAM plays a crucial part in system performance and cheaping out on slow and unreliable RAM causing far more headaches in system stability. Please don't listen to this guy and get the cheapest components you find.

So youre saying that a 8800GTS doesnt cream teh PS3 now? How much will it cost in a year if it costs $260 now?True_Gamer_

But you'll be running games subpar with a 8800GTS next year. Look at say, Bioshock:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6177688/p-6.html

A 8800GTS fetches 47 FPS right now with everything turned on, looking slightly better than the 360 version (but admittedly at a higher resolution); you're looking at 30 FPS or less in next year's games for the same card. The X1950GT/7900GT's are the $150 cards this year, and owning one, I can tell you it runs Bioshock @ 30 FPS 1280x768 with everything on medium/high with periodic hiccups and slowdowns ...something I can live for for another half a year, but that would not be the card I recommend people getting now for $150. Like I said, $300 CPU's are the sweet spot, ATi/nVidia set their prices for enthuasists there.

And you don't seem to know the difference between console and PC development. Consoles refine on standardized hardware, PC's rely on more transistors and bigger fans. PC's will always outgun consoles in terms of sheer hardware power, but using it has always been troublesome, as evident by the poor performance of console emulators and something like God of War 2 running on a machine released in 2000 (!).

My advice to you: don't cheap out on parts or go crazy and get top-of-the-line gear. PC components' prices follow a declining slope: they start high, drop fairly quickly, and the bottom 1/3rd flattens out. Getting stuff somewhere just below the middle of the curve (e.g., $150-$200 CPU's, $300 GPU's) provides the best value for your dollar and the best resell value when it's time to upgrade. And beyond trying to make a contrived point about price on forums like these, I know of no PC gamer who tries to hold onto a CPU for 5 years or gets $30 RAM.

To throw a wrench in the "Is a gaming PC an investment?" debate: What if you're a pro gamer who needs high-end hardware that can keep up in a heated battle? Or, perhaps your line of work requires high-resolution Photoshop edits, 3ds max/Maya/Lightwave/XSI/etc. rendering and/or editing, or other workstation tasks that can be done with a PC that also happens to be good for gaming? Both scenarios earn you money thanks to your expensive PC. (Side note: Wow, look at all the people with Star Control-related avatars. Who's going to be the fourth person to pop up in this thread with one?)NamelessPlayer

Kinda. A pro gamer with high-end gear, sure. But a graphics professional would be much better off with a bigger monitor, more RAM (mainly Photoshop, which eats up RAM like no other), and professional graphics cards such as the nVidia Quatro series. There is some overlap with gaming, but not as much as you'd think.