What was wrong with Splinter Cell: Conviction...?

In Chaso theory, the Panama bank mission could be done without killing ANYONE, using very lttle ammo (for lights) and knocking out maybe 3 guys max. I did this (sadly only one guy i accedntly killed). Most satisfying playthrough ever.

dumbed down maybe?

you couldn't even move/hide dead bodies in that game. I wanted to try Splinter Cell in current form, and to try the series for the first-time. it didn't even feature the things CT had that I always heard good things about.

The fact it has ceased to be an actual stealth game anymore. The first three iterations in the series where very much focused on sneaking through the shadows and having to over-power your foes with cunning and creativity, not brute force. That all changed in Conviction.

The fact it has ceased to be an actual stealth game anymore. The first three iterations in the series where very much focused on sneaking through the shadows and having to over-power your foes with cunning and creativity, not brute force. That all changed in Conviction.

foxhound_fox

Not sure what game you played, but shadows still played a huge part in the game's design (which yes, is a STEALTH game). Not sure how people could say it isn't a stealth game, considering you can't poke your head out for 5 seconds without getting blown away by enemies. Just because it may be easy to sneak doesn't discredit it as a stealth game.

As far as cunning/creativity is concerned, CS1 and CT both felt as "cunning/creative" as Conviction, only you had to deal with poor controls, and worst animations (same arguement I give MGS fans about the new controls). i think nostalgia is playing games with too many Splinter Cell fan's heads... :?

Hardcore Splinter Cell fans.

It's actually a really good game in its own right, but it's streamlined and more forgiving than the earlier games so it's garbage.

I can understand the disappointment because there's no other franchise that really does that kind of hardcore stealth like the old SC games did. But it's just like the decline of old-school survival horror in that you can't make that game anymore. You can't make a big-budget Chaos Theory or Resident Evil 2 in 2010, so these franchises like Splinter Cell and Resident Evil need to be "dumbed down" to prevent them from going dormant.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

The fact it has ceased to be an actual stealth game anymore. The first three iterations in the series where very much focused on sneaking through the shadows and having to over-power your foes with cunning and creativity, not brute force. That all changed in Conviction.

xYamatox

Not sure what game you played, but shadows still played a huge part in the game's design (which yes, is a STEALTH game). Not sure how people could say it isn't a stealth game, considering you can't poke your head out for 5 seconds without getting blown away by enemies. Just because it may be easy to sneak doesn't discredit it as a stealth game.

As far as cunning/creativity is concerned, CS1 and CT both felt as "cunning/creative" as Conviction, only you had to deal with poor controls, and worst animations (same arguement I give MGS fans about the new controls). i think nostalgia is playing games with too many Splinter Cell fan's heads... :?

I agree. And people also tend to forget the trial and error gameplay that critics and fans always complained about, even with Chaos Theory.

The transition between action and stealth throughout the game is very deliberate and follows the flow of the story. Third Echelon HQ is probably the best example of the story and the pacing of the gameplay running in parallel in a way that really elevates the game.

I'm not resistant to change and definitely not a slave to nostalgia. Conviction was a much needed change in a franchise that was growing stale.

lack of spy vs merc competitive

The fact it has ceased to be an actual stealth game anymore. The first three iterations in the series where very much focused on sneaking through the shadows and having to over-power your foes with cunning and creativity, not brute force. That all changed in Conviction.

foxhound_fox

lack of spy vs merc competitive

Dead-Memories

Best arguement I've heard in this thread. :?

Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x

I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be:

To anyone who played the older titles (sans Double Agent, may it rot in hell), Conviction is nothing short of a travesty.

Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x

I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be:

RyuRanVII

How is Conviction not a stealth game, if the game's theme revolves around sneaking/flanking enemies...?

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]

Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x

I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be:

xYamatox

How is Conviction not a stealth game, if the game's theme revolves around sneaking/flanking enemies...?

[QUOTE="Dead-Memories"]

lack of spy vs merc competitive

xYamatox

Best arguement I've heard in this thread. :?

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="Dead-Memories"]

lack of spy vs merc competitive

Dead-Memories

Best arguement I've heard in this thread. :?

Not true. Co-op is just simply fun. As far as VS game modes is concerned, I'll agree that Conviction probably should have implemented it somehow. Spy vs. Mercs is pretty cool.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]

Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x

I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be:

Verge_6

How is Conviction not a stealth game, if the game's theme revolves around sneaking/flanking enemies...?

Reading a thread helps. I've already stated multiple times I;ve played SC1 and Chaos Theory.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="xYamatox"]

How is Conviction not a stealth game, if the game's theme revolves around sneaking/flanking enemies...?

xYamatox

Reading a thread helps. I've already stated multiple times I;ve played SC1 and Chaos Theory.

I just recently bought Conviction due to it being rather cheap, and I gotta say, I'm having a blast with the game. I remember when the game first released, a lot of people were bashing it to death. It's a solid title, that has amazing co-op, so I'm not sure what was wrong with it...

xYamatox

first mission was ok not bad. i like it and visuaally it looked nice. after that everything became crap. first the middle east mission it was more like a shooter and not a stealth mission and t was so crap, that mission is sooooooooo ugly graphically it literally looks like a last gen game. then comes the carnival mission and it was also crap. the graphics for this game is truely crap and it had stripped down gameplay compared to the prefvious sc games. i catn believe it took them this long to release this game it looks so ugly and dated and every aspect of the game.

Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x

I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be:

RyuRanVII

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"] Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be: xYamatox

It's a cover based shooter with a broken stealth mechanic and a stupid AI. You're forced into combat most of the times and you can't finish the game without being spotted by the enemy. If playing the older Splinter Cell isn't enough to figure out what a stealth game is, do yourself a favor and go play the good old Thief trilogy. ;)

i like what they did with conviction. I think they hit a pretty good balance of action and stealth.

And yes, ive played most of the other games.

The way they tailored this version was alot more suited to online play imo... which is a good thing. Unfortunately the multiplayer wasnt very fleshed out... but it made me real excited for a sequel.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"] [QUOTE="RyuRanVII"] Conviction is not a stealth game and It's not even a decent action game. :x I'd rather play this to the game Splinter Cell: Conviction turned out to be: RyuRanVII

It's a cover based shooter with a broken stealth mechanic and a stupid AI. You're forced into combat most of the times and you can't finish the game without being spotted by the enemy. If playing the older Splinter Cell isn't enough to figure out what a stealth game is, do yourself a favor and go play the good old Thief trilogy. ;)

Weither you think the stealth mechanc is broken or not does not change the fact it's a massive part in the gameplay. Conviction IS a stealth game, it just as a bigger margin for error than previous entires.

It was a great game, just not as good as Chaos Theory.

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"] How is Conviction not a stealth game, if the game's theme revolves around sneaking/flanking enemies...? xYamatox

It's a cover based shooter with a broken stealth mechanic and a stupid AI. You're forced into combat most of the times and you can't finish the game without being spotted by the enemy. If playing the older Splinter Cell isn't enough to figure out what a stealth game is, do yourself a favor and go play the good old Thief trilogy. ;)

Weither you think the stealth mechanc is broken or not does not change the fact it's a massive part in the gameplay. Conviction IS a stealth game, it just as a bigger margin for error than previous entires.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]

It's a cover based shooter with a broken stealth mechanic and a stupid AI. You're forced into combat most of the times and you can't finish the game without being spotted by the enemy. If playing the older Splinter Cell isn't enough to figure out what a stealth game is, do yourself a favor and go play the good old Thief trilogy. ;)

Verge_6

Weither you think the stealth mechanc is broken or not does not change the fact it's a massive part in the gameplay. Conviction IS a stealth game, it just as a bigger margin for error than previous entires.

Based on what? A stealth game can have as much action thrown in as it wants, but if the core gameplay remains sealth, it's a stealth game. It's like saying Fallout 3 is't really a shooter, because it relies on character stats throughout the game. :roll:

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="xYamatox"]

Weither you think the stealth mechanc is broken or not does not change the fact it's a massive part in the gameplay. Conviction IS a stealth game, it just as a bigger margin for error than previous entires.

xYamatox

Based on what? A stealth game can have as much action thrown in as it wants, but if the core gameplay remains sealth, it's a stealth game. It's like saying Fallout 3 is't really a shooter, because it relies on character stats throughout the game. :roll:

I used to say that Metal Gear Solid wasn't really a stealth game (what with the plethora of powerful weaponry you get), but at least most of those games allow me to complete them without killing anyone, as Chaos Theory did.

We can quibble all we like about the boundaries of the stealth genre, but you'd have to be blind not to see the shift in focus between Chaos Theory and Conviction.

Well, there a few problems with the game. For one, it really isn't much of a stealth game anymore. In previous installments, you could go through pretty much every level without engaging the enemy at all. In conviction, you're forced into combat way too often. Systematically taking out guys from the shadows can be fun and all, but it really isn't what I want from a Splinter Cell game. Of course, that's let down once you discover that it is far easier to just walk around zoomed with an assalt rifle shooting anything that moves.

And then there's the plot. The first three games were fairly cerebral and full of intrigue, but Conviction's plot can be boiled down to "this time it's personal." It's kind of worn out and boring, and it certainly isn't very Clancy-esque.

It feels like they wanted to make a game very similar to a Jason Bourne film. That's fine, but I wish they would have simply made an actual Bourne game, or started a new IP instead of radically changing Splinter Cell.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]Stealth games don't have chopper chase sequences or an easy-way-out function to use if you're spotted. It's perfectly fine to like Conviction, but it is not, nor was it EVER intended to be, a true stealth title.Verge_6

Based on what? A stealth game can have as much action thrown in as it wants, but if the core gameplay remains sealth, it's a stealth game. It's like saying Fallout 3 is't really a shooter, because it relies on character stats throughout the game. :roll:

Clearly argueing over the matter isn't going to go anywhere. There is more to stealth than simply "You were caught, game over!". Stealth also involves getting AWAY from danger, which is another vital gameplay aspect Conviction does. For the last time, just because it's more action oriented does not discredit the fact that stealth is OBVIOUSLY a huge aspect to the core gameplay. It may not be 100% like older Splinter Cell games, that that doesn't mean it's a different genre all together.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Play the splinter cell games before and you will see!

xYamatox

I played Splinter Cell and Chaos Theory before. Conviction doesn't feel too different from previous entries. Yes, it may be more linear, but the core Splinter Cell gameplay is still there...

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="xYamatox"]

Based on what? A stealth game can have as much action thrown in as it wants, but if the core gameplay remains sealth, it's a stealth game. It's like saying Fallout 3 is't really a shooter, because it relies on character stats throughout the game. :roll:

xYamatox

Clearly argueing over the matter isn't going to go anywhere. There is more to stealth than simply "You were caught, game over!". Stealth also involves getting AWAY from danger, which is another vital gameplay aspect Conviction does. For the last time, just because it's more action oriented does not discredit the fact that stealth is OBVIOUSLY a huge aspect to the core gameplay. It may not be 100% like older Splinter Cell games, that that doesn't mean it's a different genre all together.

It's a very different game, though, even if stealth is a part of it.

In Chaos Theory, you have a lot of flexibility, but the game rewards you for playing like a ghost. If you carefully plot your route through a mission, nobody will know you were there. You can make your way through with distractions and non-lethal knockouts, and you'll leave everything as you left it, except for whatever vital piece of information you were meant to extract.

You can't play through Conviction without anybody knowing you were there. The mark-and-execute mechanic is designed to encourage and reward lethal takedowns that are flashy and precise. If you're playing it right, you'll flick in and out of vision, but everybody will know you were there, because they're expecting you, and because you show up and do damage, and leave a trail of bodies. The only time this might not be true is in the auto-fail stealth missions, a mechanic so punishing and backwards that they totally ditched it in CT, years earlier.

I can see why people might prefer one to the other, but they're games with very different aims in terms of how they empower the player, and Conviction is much more action-oriented than Chaos Theory.

Depends what stance you're in.

Conviction defeats the purpose of what a SC is supposed to be. It was too watered down to appeal more to the casualized FPS crowd. It tries to mix TPS with stealth and ultimately fails at both.

Its been watered down for the 360 fanbaseThePsTriple

lol of the day.

Anyway, people don't like it because it made a huge step back from previous titles. More action orientated, less stealth.

splinter cell series: stealth games
splinter cell conviction: third person shooter

that's pretty much what is wrong with it.

Play the splinter cell games before and you will see!

Espada12

I just recently bought Conviction due to it being rather cheap, and I gotta say, I'm having a blast with the game. I remember when the game first released, a lot of people were bashing it to death. It's a solid title, that has amazing co-op, so I'm not sure what was wrong with it...

xYamatox

i enjoyed it too, much better than double agent, slick and polished and other than a few pointless levels (iraq & the fair ground) it was surprisingly good. you still could stealth your way around levels, the controls (pc i played it on) were intuitive and despite not wanting the change in game style (chaos theory is THE grand daddy of stealth games for me, even more so than the thief games) i really didnt mind the more cinematic and arcadey feel.

i thought i'd hate it but i actually i agree with you its a solid title

It's a poor TPS, with rubbish stealth elements apoorly structured story, some rubbish "interrogation" mode, and awfull level design that means you HAVE to use it's horrible shooting mechanics throughout.

I bought it for £13.00 and still feel robbed.

[QUOTE="ThePsTriple"]Its been watered down for the 360 fanbasekillerfist

lol of the day.

Anyway, people don't like it because it made a huge step back from previous titles. More action orientated, less stealth.

it was an outstanding game, one of the best of the year. a lot of people complain about it because it wasnt a rehash of an earlier game with clunky controls and rigid gameplay. obviously it is different from splinter cell titles but if you are willing to judge the game on its own merits then it is a very good game with lots of great features and an outstanding interface. it also had enormous replay value with the co-op campaign, deniable ops, and face off modes.

a lot of people dont like it because it wasnt what they wanted, even though they can always just play old splinter cell games. personally, i would recommend it to anybody willing to keep an open mind going into it who just wants a fun game. the deniable ops are so good!

Weither you think the stealth mechanc is broken or not does not change the fact it's a massive part in the gameplay. Conviction IS a stealth game, it just as a bigger margin for error than previous entires.xYamatox

Nothing. I actually love conviction, such a fantastic game.