When do "video games" stop being just "games"

Video games haven't ben just simple games since the NES era. They've grown into an art form, into interactive personal experiences that i can't define in any other way. I thought this is something that's commonly agreed upon.

but the fact is that most everyone can think of some movie or song or book that truly touched and moved them. Not so with games. Most games are clumsy as hell, don't go very much beyond mindless action, and even the few that do elevate the genre don't have the same kind of widespread cultural presence as with other art forms. Most people are aware of Citizen Kane, but mention video games and most people are just going to be thinking about Super Mario Bros and Mortal Kombat.MrGeezer

What? I literally haven't met one soul that casually watches movies, that know of Citizen Kane, or hell, even Blade Runner, or anything els that isn't shoved in their face by marketing. How much you know of a medium depends on how much time you've put into it, how interested you are in that particular medium.

Obviously people that aren't gamers, or casually play games, will not know of Planescape: Torment, for example. But anyone that holds gaming as their hobby, will know of it. All of this is, ofcourse, based on my limited personal experience.

So artistic validity is linked to what is mainstream culturally?

Interesting.

So artistic validity is linked to what is mainstream culturally?

Interesting.

Ilovegames1992

[QUOTE="Sali217"] I hate movies, no movie has ever "moved" me. Movies can't even come remotely close to the greatness of some literature, and yet they are still considered art and worthwhile.MrGeezer

I could argue that the maturity (not violence or sex), the thought provoking complexity is in the gameplay. Look at games like Hearts of Iron III or Amnesia. Games excell at mature, intelligent, thought-provoking and inspiring aspects trough their gameplay, and the atmosphere that's molded by the sound design, music and artstyle. These are experiences that the film medium cannot even begin to touch. 

These aren't movies, the gaming and the film medium are completely different, both excell at different things (movies = storytelling, games = gameplay).

Saying that video games are art is an incredibly broad generalization, however that doesn't mean that video games cannot be art. People seem to forget that not all movies and books can be considered as art since both, like games, can be founded on market research and can therefore be adapted to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Imo, art is supposed to represent a focused vision of an individual or a group regardless of whether or not it will appeal to the masses. However, this is not to say that art cannot be popular as there is evidence to the contrary with games like Shadow of the Colossus, Majora's Mask etc.

Now that is not say that the two games I've listed could be considered art to everybody and therein lies the problem with the term due is its heavily subjective nature. To me, the second a game elicits an emotional response that is beyond simple fun then I would probably consider it art. For others the conditions on which someone might consider a game art could be different.

To add to my first point  "Imo, art is supposed to represent a focused vision of an individual or a group regardless of whether or not it will appeal to the masses" I should add that a person or a group's focus doesn't have to be artistic and it could be to just make an awesome game and therefore what I meant is that it is more likely for a game to have an artistic focus under these circumstances as most companies know that making a game with an artistic focus is very hit and miss and is therefore much more likely to take the safe route.

Just say you like reading.

Anyway, don't let Bioshock Infinite trick you, it's a game about shooting people in the face and going towards the objective marker. All they did is provide you with an unusually involved justification for the face shooting.

Cherokee_Jack

lol don't let books read you, they are just a reason to turn pages and look at text. 

Seriously, of course games are supposed to be fun too.  

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

So artistic validity is linked to what is mainstream culturally?

Interesting.

MrGeezer

Sure i guess. Which i indicative of how prejudice society can be i guess.

For a job interview or something. But i think that's changing more and ore now with such activities reaching more mainstream audiences.

I probably wouldn't bring up many hobbies like that though, other than maybe literature at a push, because its so old and has this pretentious quality about it.

Tbh, literature is really the only form of "entertainment" hobby I'd bring up in a job interview and even at that I'd probably be more inclined to talk about my cabinet building and bee keeping hobbies instead.Sali217

@MrGeezer

I respectfully disagree

Games like The Walking Dead prove that video gamesa are more than just "mindless fun". Books and Movies have been around for a long time so of coures people are moved more by those mediums.. Dosn't take away the fact people are moved by video games as well. About time video games get where they should we'll be dead. The fact you and me are having this conversation proves my point.

:)

I respectfully disagree

Games like The Walking Dead prove that vidoeo gamesa are more than just "mindless fun.". Books and Movies have been around for a long time so of coures people ar moved more by those mediums.. Dosn't take away the fact people are moved by video games as well. About time vidoe games get where they should we'll be deaddead.. The fact you and me are having this conversation proves my point.

 

:)

Blazed

Who cares what other people think? Video games are video games and hopefully the name never changes. Once all the old people die out and our generation rules the world no one is gonna look down on you for playing video games :Pmems_1224

[QUOTE="Blazed"]

I respectfully disagree

Games like The Walking Dead prove that vidoeo gamesa are more than just "mindless fun.". Books and Movies have been around for a long time so of coures people ar moved more by those mediums.. Dosn't take away the fact people are moved by video games as well. About time vidoe games get where they should we'll be deaddead.. The fact you and me are having this conversation proves my point.

 

:)

MrGeezer

The medium hasn't been around long enough for peope to respect it yet. Eventually it will get respect over time. We have come a long way these past 2 generations but the medium has a long road ahead of it. Wish I could be around to see it happen.

:x

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

Just say you like reading.

Anyway, don't let Bioshock Infinite trick you, it's a game about shooting people in the face and going towards the objective marker. All they did is provide you with an unusually involved justification for the face shooting.

NaveedLife

lol don't let books read you, they are just a reason to turn pages and look at text. 

Seriously, of course games are supposed to be fun too.  

Yes, and that's just it, Bioshock Infinite is a game built to be fun. It plainly has objectives, progression, mechanics, and failure states, and it's structured more tightly than goddamn Mario 64.

There are certainly pieces of software whose "game-ness" is debatable, but Infinite isn't one of them, and neither are Metro or TLOU.

The medium hasn't been around long enough for peope to respect it yet. Eventually it will get respect over time. We have come a long way these past 2 generations but the medium has a long road ahead of it. Wish I could be around to see it happen.

:x

Blazed

Why can't they just be video games?

Gaming has a masterpiece by the way, it's called Super Mario. Cause you know... it's a good game that brings people together, rather than sitting alone playing a game that thinks it's a film.m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"]Gaming has a masterpiece by the way, it's called Super Mario. Cause you know... it's a good game that brings people together, rather than sitting alone playing a game that thinks it's a film.Lulekani

[QUOTE="Lulekani"][QUOTE="m25105"]Gaming has a masterpiece by the way, it's called Super Mario. Cause you know... it's a good game that brings people together, rather than sitting alone playing a game that thinks it's a film.nintendoboy16

@MrGeezer

I respectfully disagree

Games like The Walking Dead prove that video gamesa are more than just "mindless fun". Books and Movies have been around for a long time so of coures people are moved more by those mediums.. Dosn't take away the fact people are moved by video games as well. About time video games get where they should we'll be dead. The fact you and me are having this conversation proves my point.

 

:)

Blazed

[QUOTE="m25105"]Gaming has a masterpiece by the way, it's called Super Mario. Cause you know... it's a good game that brings people together, rather than sitting alone playing a game that thinks it's a film.Lulekani

Mario pretty much is gaming. 

People insulting Mario are quite insecure about their passion/hobby.

People keep talking about how much video games borrow from film, but don't seem to realize that film BORROWED all most all of it's tricks aside from CGI and Camera angles from theater.Sali217

[QUOTE="Lulekani"][QUOTE="m25105"]Gaming has a masterpiece by the way, it's called Super Mario. Cause you know... it's a good game that brings people together, rather than sitting alone playing a game that thinks it's a film.m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="Lulekani"] Nintendo had Decades to make Mario evolve, and the best they could do was the same boring ass Mario game over and over again Meanwhile Frozenbyte surfaced a few years ago and now they have Trine 2, leagues better than that Italian Plumber.Lulekani