Which next generation console are you looking forward to the most?

6 TFLOPS is still around Polaris 10 36 CU's TFLOPS range and NEO also has Polaris 10 36 CU based GPU i.e. a simple clock speed increase is all it takes to equal XBOv2.

The jump factor is close to Xbox 360 to Xbox One.

Power and price works for Sony.

@emgesp:

No we don't, everything are rumors. We know nothing about if or when these console are so what are you talking about.

The one with the most power. One that isn't sold on hope and "superior optimization down the road" either.

NX, mostly because WiiU is my favorite console this gen.

I see zero reason to get an Xbone or its bigger brother Scoprio. My PS4 has been collecting dust outside few and far between good exclusives and with using it so little I could care less about NEO.

If the rumors about Scorpio being compatible with Oculus are true, then PS4/Neo will be the worst console VR experience.. Ouch.

Leaked documents sent to developers by Sony were posted on GiantBomb and Eurogamer. Its definitely a real thing.

I don't know, seems to me like they gotta be planning to do more than just overclocking to get that much further ahead than Neo, that there's gotta be more cores in there. Otherwise that would be a lot of heat for a console.

But anyway, is it just me or is Neo turning out to be a huge mistake for Sony? They had this thing won! They were dominating everyone and now they're the ones who have gone and hit the reset button early and provided MS with an opportunity to outdo them and it looks like MS is leaping at the chance with guns blazing. If 6 tflops from Scorpio and maybe even a better CPU vs a 4tflops Neo with the same ol CPU is true then MS is gonna be in a fantastic position to flip the script on Sony and Sony will have nobody to blame but themselves cuz they're the ones that ushered it all in.

NEO having the same ol CPU? Read http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/

NEO has ZEN Lite LP not Jaguar/Puma+.

The purpose for AMD's "semi-custom" business is to leverage AMD's existing PC IP blocks at a given process node and Jaguar for FinFET process node is out-of-step from AMD's FinFET based PC IP blocks. If Sony wants Jaguar CPU IP block in FinFET, Sony will pay for transfer cost and this cost will NOT be spread across AMD's PC SKUs i.e. it just killed the main idea for having "semi-custom" to lower the cost.

XBO chip component size

GPU: 160 mm2 (includes memory controllers)

non-GPU: 203 mm2 (includes CPU, NB, SB, 47 MB ESRAM)

Total: 363 mm^2

--------------

PS4 chip component size

GPU: 212 mm2 (includes memory controllers)

non-GPU: 136 mm2 (includes CPU, NB, SB)

Total: 348 mm^2

-----------

PS4 NEO and XBOv2 chip component size

GPU: 232 mm2 based from Polaris 10, (includes memory controllers)

non-GPU: 122 mm2 based from full ZEN Summit Ridge(includes CPU, NB, SB, memory controllers)

Total: 354 mm^2, it should be less than this number since ZEN is cut down to "Lite" and redundant memory controllers removed.

Have you notice the pattern with total chip area size?

------------

Polaris 10 36 CU at 911 Mhz = 4.19 TFLOPS

Polaris 10 36 CU at 960 Mhz = 4.4 TFLOPS

Polaris 10 36 CU at 1266 Mhz = 5.83 TFLOPS

Polaris 10 36 CU at 1300 Mhz = 5.99 TFLOPS

--------

Remember, most quoted GPU TDP includes GDDR5 memory modules.

That's GDDR5-8000 with 512 bit wide bus, hence 256 bits version has about 42.5 watts.

You should able to see why Fury X has additional 20 CU vs R9-390X's 44 CU at similar TDP.

4 stack HBMv1 is 29 watts hence 2 stack version is 14.5 watts. The difference between 42.5 watts and 14.4 watt is 28 watts. This 28 watts energy savings can use to increase clock speed.

1 stack HBMv1 is 9.75 watts. The difference between 42.5 watts and 9.75 watt is 32.75 watts. This 32.75 watts energy savings can use to increase clock speed.

Two stack HBMv2 yields 512 GB/s memory bandwidth and 8 GB of storage.

One stack HBMv2 yields 256 GB/s memory bandwidth and 4 GB of storage.

Let's say Polaris 10 with 36 CU at 1266Mhz and 256 bit GDDR5-8000 = 150 watts

Two stack HBM version would be 122 watts.

One stack HBM version would be 117.3 watts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_technical_specifications#Power_usage

PS4 consumed 151 watts for Killzone.

151 watts - 117 watts = 34 watts for 8 core ZEN Lite LP + NB + SB. 2.1 Ghz CPU speed sounds like mobile Intel Core i7 quad core part with NB, memory controllers and Intel IGP. Replace Intel IGP with another set of quad Core ZEN Lite LP and remove redundant memory controllers.

As you can see, 6 TFLOPS XBOv2 is possible with around PS4's 151 watts Killzone power consumption. HBM is a significant power saver.

Well, OK. Somebody had mentioned the Zen CPU thing to me before but didn't provide much detail so I wasn't sure if they meant it was for Neo or Scorpio or both. But still 6 tflops vs 4 tflops = damnnnnn. :)

VR-ZONE's link mentions 15 to 20 percent higher clock speed over PS4's GPU i.e. TFLOPS range would be from 4.2 TFLOPS to 4.4 TFLOPS.

Sony could increase their TDP to around 170 watts instead of PS4 Killzone's 151 watts and close the gap e.g. 5 TFLOPS.

Without year 2017 HBM usage, Sony is a bind with GDDR5.

pc gaming sucks,

i choose xbox one

@emgesp:

Until Sony, MSand Nintendo themselves come out and confirm it, it's rumors. Giantbomb.com isn't saying where they heard this from so I take what they say with a grain of salt.

We have two totally different sites with different sources given the same exact information while also sharing leaked documents.

Its all but confirmed at this point.

@emgesp:

Nothing is confirmed until the actual companies themselves confirms it. 2 different sites can easily copy and paste the same article, doesn't confirm anything.

I don't really consider it a new gen, but Neo. It'll most likely have the best all around library and Sony has been on a roll w/ support for their system.

Of the three I guess the NX because it will have new games.

Ooo maybe a new Captain Toad! Metroid! Galaxy! ^_^

They didn't copy and paste any article they were the original sources. GiantBomb and Eurogamer are highly reputable gaming sites.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/

*worked

The PS3 failed commercially for the first half of last gen because it was so technologically advanced. And the PS2 and PS were both well behind their competition technologically at the time.

The PS4 is the first time this strategy, out of four attempts, that it's "worked" for Sony.

Neo and scorpio is not next generation imo, it is just a bump in hardware to do VR. NX is just another shitty Nintendo console, nothing to be excited about.

PS3 is not technologically advance i.e. CELL's design concept was from the past.

For example,

PS3's PPE is an in-order duel instruction issue per cycle design that was similar to 1990s PowerPC 601. IBM added 64bit addressing, SMT(Hyper-threading), ~21 stage pipeline for high clock speed and VMX-128. PPE is not even out-of-order CPU design. Intel Pentium Classic was in-order duel instruction issue per cycle design.

SPE wasn't advance over PPE i.e. further cut-down core design without SMT and PowerPC's supervisor modes(user mode only). SPE's instructions are based from IBM's VMX (aka Motorola's Altivec). IBM added Added gather/scatter instructions for SPE's local memory. PC GPUs has gather/scatter instructions for years. PC GPU's gather instructions can directly populate it's registers not just local memory.

PS3's NVIDIA RSX GPU was an aging GPU design when compared to ATI's ultra-threads (similar to NVIDIA G80 giga-threads) and unified shader enabled Xenos GPU. ATI Xenos has 64 threads in-flight over 48 shader/stream processors.

ATI's Xenos ultra-threaded design decouples threads from shader/processors i.e. if a thread stalls due to fetch operation, other threads can continue, hence minimizes idle/stall state. NVIDIA introduced unfied shader and giga-thread design with G80. This technology IP doesn't exist for IBM SPE or NVIDIA RSX.

ATI Xenos has a separate hardware tessellation unit that doesn't use any compute processor resources. This design serves as the basis for Direct X11's hardware tessellation unit i.e. Xbox 360's tessellation ping-pong memory access to EDRAM was replaced by Direct X11's Hull/Domain shader register storage (SRAM), hence it's faster. On PS3, must use SPE which reduces compute resources for other workloads.

ATI Xenos has 3DC+ texture compression and it's included for DirectX 10 standard. NVIDIA introduced 3DC+ texture compression with G80. Xenos/G80's 3DC+ texture compression/decompression doesn't use any compute processor resources.

ATi Xenos has better shader branch over NVIDIA RSX. Must use SPE on PS3. NVIDIA improved shader branch was introduced in G80.

ATi Xenos has shader index while NVIDIA RSX doesn't have this feature. Must use SPE on PS3. NVIDIA introduced shader index in G80.

.

PS3's design was a failure and Sony doesn't want to repeat another PS3 design i.e. Sony wants year 2012 Xbox 360 i.e. that's PS4.

ATI Xenos with 180 mm^2 size chip is better than NVIDIA RSX/G70 with 258 mm^2 size chip.

ATI Xenos is the world's 1st unified shader GpGPU. ARM Mali, PowerVR, Qualcomm, AMD, NVIDIA and Intel GPUs are unified shader GpGPU designs.

ATI's design = win. With multiple vendors following the design.

IBM's design = lost. No sane GPU vendor follows IBM's SPE/NVIDIA RSX combo.

Scorpio's jump is close to XBO's jump from Xbox 360.

XBO(1.31 TFLOPS) to Scorpio (6 TFLOPS)= 4.5X

X360(0.24 TFLOPS) to XBO(1.31 TFLOPS) = 5.5X

Why the Neo? It's like...half a step up from the PS4

Shotgunning a wall of text doesn't make you right.

@foxhound_fox: Ignorance doesn't make you right.

You failed computer science 101.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3904/processing_the_truth_an_interview_.php?print=1

David Shippy and Mickie Phipps, were two leading figures in the design of the Cell at the Sony-Toshiba-IBM design center, which jointly spent an estimated $400 million to develop the technology.

Shippy was the chief architect of the power processing unit for the Cell, and overall technical leader and architect for the team that created the Power Architecture-related microprocessors that ended up in both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3.

...

"I'm going to have to answer with an 'it depends,'" laughs Shippy, after a pause. "Again, they're completely different models. So in the PS3, you've got this Cell chip which has massive parallel processing power, the PowerPC core, multiple SPU cores… it's got a GPU that is, in the model here, processing more in the Cell chip and less in the GPU. So that's one processing paradigm -- a heterogeneous paradigm."

"With the Xbox 360, you've got more of a traditional multi-core system, and you've got three PowerPC cores, each of them having dual threads -- so you've got six threads running there, at least in the CPU. Six threads in Xbox 360, and eight or nine threads in the PS3 -- but then you've got to factor in the GPU," Shippy explains. "The GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360."

He concludes: "At the end of the day, when you put them all together, depending on the software, I think they're pretty equal, even though they're completely different processing models."

IBM's David Shippy has recognized Xbox 360's GPU is "highly sophisticated" over NVIDIA's RSX GPU solution.

IBM's David Shippy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU.

NX

I'm curious as to what the phuck it actually is. However, I'm keeping my expectations low knowing how stubborn Nintendo are with annoying and aggravating secrets they always keep,

Just spit it out stupidass Nintendo!!

Not looking forward for any of them

Nintendo NX. The other two are just mid-gen upgrades (like the Sega CD and 32X).

None

@emgesp:

LOL I guess you don't know the definition of rumor. Until it is announced by the company themselves, then everything you hear is speculation and rumors, nothing from a 3rd party site is facts dude. Like I said, nothing to get excited about cause anything and everything we read is rumors until Sonyou and MS actually announce it. The only fact we know is the NX is real, but even with that we don't even know what it is.

Sega CD and 32X had exclusive software, so its not like that at all.

None. My next gaming platform will be a completely new PC build and I'll give this one to my fiance.

Xbox Too. :P

Scorpio.

Lol@sony attempting to mimic Apples two products in one cycle scheme.

Yeah sure, but i mean the jump is just to be able to to VR and 4k movies. They both is in the same generation as old version and play the same games.

Scorpio will have the disadvantage of having every "exclusive" also released on PC, so even if it's the best console of the 3 it's still worthless.

PSNeo, while better than Scorpio, is also worthless for me, as I own a PS4 already so have access to the exclusives, and I have no interest in paying again just for slightly better textures and resolution, PS4 looks good enough, I'll wait for whatever comes after Neo.

NX is what I'm looking forward to the most, or at least it's announcement. Yes, so far the only game we know is coming to it is Zelda, which is also on Wii U, so right now, this too is a worthless purchase for me. However, unlike Neo, it is confirmed that NX is a brand new system, and therefore probably won't share all it's games with the Wii U. I don't want to commit fully to the NX quite yet, but of the three upcoming systems it's likely the only one to have any real exclusives.

I feel you on this. They try to become what the PC is, but fall short of that entirely. But, the disc has to be required because of ownage rights. You could just rent games and get them all for basically nothing, otherwise. They would have to use CD keys like PC games use if you want to not have to use discs.

Incompatibility and software run-time ecosystem divide mostly stems from switching CPU instruction set.

Xbox 360 has a limited original XBox backward compatible via software emulation and the original Xbox doesn't have forwards compatibility with Xbox 360 due to PowerPC/Power64 instruction set switch.

AMD Jaguar CPU core at 90 nm process tech would be 10 mm^2 chip area size.

Using data from http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/CELL_BE

IBM PPE (Power Processing Element) at 90 nm has 28.86 mm^2 chip area size.

IBM SPE at 90 nm has 14.76 mm^2 chip area size.

Smaller is better.

PS3's 5 SPE at 3.2 Ghz has 105.

PS4's 6 Jaguar at 1.6 Ghz has 98.

XBO's 6 Jaguar at 1.75 Ghz has 113.

AMD Jaguar has superior instruction per cycle(IPC) when compared to IBM SPE and PPE.

AMD Jaguar has superior smaller size CPU core when compared to IBM SPE and PPE.

At the same 90 nm process tech, AMD Jaguar would have defeated the IBM competition.

If AMD was involve in game consoles during 2002 to 2004,

Xbox 360 could resemble the following

CPU: 6 core AMD Jaguar at 1.75 Ghz = 60 mm^2

GPU ATI Xenos = 180 mm^2 (minus EDRAM) (48 unified stream processors), GpGPU capable

Total chip area: ~240 mm^2,

Unified 128 bit GDDR3 512 MB

-----

PS3 could resemble the following

CPU: 8 core AMD Jaguar at 1.6 Ghz = 80 mm^2.

GPU: ATI Xenos 1.4X = ~253 mm^2 (~64 unified stream processors), GpGPU capable

Total chip area: ~336 mm^2. Current PS4 has 348 mm^2

Unified 192 bit GDDR3 768 MB. Combined Rambus's 72 bit XDR bus with 128 bit GDDR3 PCB budget.

ATI was building two separate unified shader GPUs i.e. Xenos SIMD based GPU and Radeon HD 2900 VLIW5 based GPU. AMD killed VLIW GPU development and unified all GPU designs to a single SIMD based design i.e. GCN (Graphics Core Next).

Like NVIDIA Geforce FX and Intel Itanium, ATI also infected by the promise of VLIW designs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_long_instruction_word

NX. The others are irrelevant for a PC gamer. No need for weak wannabe PCs when there's PC.

Nah, it's just you who suck at PC gaming.

Probably NEO since I already have a bunch of games for it (I hope they make profiles for most of them). If MS brings out the goods with a powerful console I'm on board as well. NX is a total mystery at this point while the other two aren't probably anything more than upgrades to the existing hardware. NX is supposed to be this totally new way to play (yet again...) and since Nintendo decided to be a dick about the info it interests me the least at this point.

Well, by default NX, since the other 2 aren't next gen.

Thats the problem , they arent and assuming all their consoles since N64 died way faster than anything else on the market , the value of their products is epic fail. One of the reasons i dislike Nintendo consoles.

I'm not interested until the PS5 comes along. I'm more than happy with my PS4 as it is and see no point in spending hundreds again for the same thing but with slightly higher frame rates.

I really think Sony are spending money unnecessarily when they're already leading the console race, this new whatever it is will only serve to confuse future buyers and annoy current owners.

If they won't have any exclusive software, then that makes them even more pointless than the 32X.

That's like saying better PC hardware is pointless.

Lol, so much insecurity...