Which was the worse Overhype Fail: THE CELL or 8GB GDDR5

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="evildead6789"] ddr3 sdram @ 1333 mhz is as fast as gddr5, don't compare apples with oranges Most ddr3 ram runs at faster speeds like 1600 or 1800 mhz, and ddr4 is coming out this year. So yeah 8 gb of gddr5 is not that special, allthough it's a lot better than what's in a ps3 or xbox though. I'm really curious what ms is going to do.evildead6789

With the same 128bit bus, DDR3 @1333Mhz is not as fast as GDDR5 @6000Mhz.

GDDR5's latency example https://www.skhynix.com/products/graphics/view.jsp?info.ramKind=26&info.serialNo=H5GQ2H24AFR

Programmable CAS latency: 5 to 20 tCK

Programmable WRITE latency: 1 to 7 tCK

DDR3's latency example http://download.micron.com/pdf/datasheets/dram/ddr3/1Gb_DDR3_SDRAM.pdf

CAS READ latency (CL): 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11

CAS WRITE latency (CWL): 5, 6, 7, 8, based on tCK

PS; Sandra's GPU latency benchmarks has to go through the high latency driver stacks e.g. wait for AMD HSA drivers.

It doesn't matter, you're comparing apples with oranges again. gddr5 doesn't run at 6000 mhz, it runs at 4x 1500 mhz. While dual channel ddr3 @ 1333 mhz run at 2x 1333 mhz. Triple channel at 3 x 1333 mhz. Even if you would have 4 channels available, then it's useless when the cpu doesn't support it. I suppose sony could have a custom cpu from amd that supports 4 channels but that still doesn't match current pc's. Ddr3 can run at 2133 mhz so when you have a triple channel motherboard , you have 6400 mhz. And to be honest , faster system memory than dual channel 1333 mhz doesn't have that much benefit when it comes to games. So since the gddr5 is shared memory , i really can't see what would be the advantage over current pc's, since they already have gddr5 on the graphics cards. Off course it's very nice we finally will have a next gen console but if you look at the other stuff like the chipset and core clock rates of gpu and cpu, then it's nowhere near current pc's. My medium game pc is faster than the ps4. The ps4 will not be the technological leap that the ps3 was. The ps3 at that time had 8 cores, and there weren't even quad cores available, and the gpu chipset was one of the strongest you could find. Sadly the x360 was a more balanced system, 8 cores are close to useless when your gpu bottlnecks. The x360 had less cores but a slightly better gpu and 3 cores, which were more than enough. So you can conclude that 8gb gddr5 of shared memory is nice, but cpu and gpu are very important too, and they're also nice. I don't expect the hardware to take such leaps as it did in era of 2006- 2012, but off course you can't predict the future. It would have been nice if sony's ps4 was stronger though, but they're scared because of their ps3 fail. It wasn't balanced hardware , so it was overpriced. They had to sell the system with a loss because they put way to much cpu-cores in there and it never delivered. Can't you remember their promise, 'it costs more than the x360, but it's way stronger, it has 8 cores, so expect better games'. Sadly the x360 had slightly better graphics on multiplats, and the console was much cheaper. I think their ps4 will be more balanced, but they could have put something stronger in there than a hd 7850 and an intel cpu instead of an amd cpu. If xbox makes something stronger they could get an even worse asskicking than this gen.evildead6789

Somebody needs to read basic PC concepts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

DDR3 @1333 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~666Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @1333 has ~21.3 GB/s bandwidth.

DDR3 @2133 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~1066Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @2133 has ~34.13 GB/s bandwidth.

GDDR5 @6000 Mhz is also refers to effective clock speed with base clock speed of 1500Mhz. Radeon HD 7770 Ghz Edition's quad channel 32bit GDRR5 @4500Mhz has ~72 GB/s bandwidth.

Sorry, GDDR5 is faster.

From http://www.nordichardware.com/CPU-Chipset/amd-kaveri-graphics-performance-on-par-with-radeon-hd-7750.html

AMD Kaveri APU would Radeon HD 7750 (8 CU @900Mhz) level GCN hence it's need for GDDR5 needs. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

There's a big reason why Intel equiped it's Intel Xeon Phi with GDDR5 instead of DDR3.

From JEDEC's information, both DDR4 and GDDR5M would be sharing SODIMM standard.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] My info comes from JEDEC, what about yours?tormentos

Steam charts are nothing compared to AMD's reported unit sales. Both AMD Kaveri APU and PS4 would be on sale about the same time.

the worst overhype by far is MOTION CONTROLS

Steam charts are nothing compared to AMD's reported unit sales. Both AMD Kaveri APU and PS4 would be on sale about the same time.ronvalencia

[QUOTE="evildead6789"]

It doesn't matter, you're comparing apples with oranges again. gddr5 doesn't run at 6000 mhz, it runs at 4x 1500 mhz. While dual channel ddr3 @ 1333 mhz run at 2x 1333 mhz. Triple channel at 3 x 1333 mhz. Even if you would have 4 channels available, then it's useless when the cpu doesn't support it. I suppose sony could have a custom cpu from amd that supports 4 channels but that still doesn't match current pc's. Ddr3 can run at 2133 mhz so when you have a triple channel motherboard , you have 6400 mhz. And to be honest , faster system memory than dual channel 1333 mhz doesn't have that much benefit when it comes to games. So since the gddr5 is shared memory , i really can't see what would be the advantage over current pc's, since they already have gddr5 on the graphics cards. Off course it's very nice we finally will have a next gen console but if you look at the other stuff like the chipset and core clock rates of gpu and cpu, then it's nowhere near current pc's. My medium game pc is faster than the ps4. The ps4 will not be the technological leap that the ps3 was. The ps3 at that time had 8 cores, and there weren't even quad cores available, and the gpu chipset was one of the strongest you could find. Sadly the x360 was a more balanced system, 8 cores are close to useless when your gpu bottlnecks. The x360 had less cores but a slightly better gpu and 3 cores, which were more than enough. So you can conclude that 8gb gddr5 of shared memory is nice, but cpu and gpu are very important too, and they're also nice. I don't expect the hardware to take such leaps as it did in era of 2006- 2012, but off course you can't predict the future. It would have been nice if sony's ps4 was stronger though, but they're scared because of their ps3 fail. It wasn't balanced hardware , so it was overpriced. They had to sell the system with a loss because they put way to much cpu-cores in there and it never delivered. Can't you remember their promise, 'it costs more than the x360, but it's way stronger, it has 8 cores, so expect better games'. Sadly the x360 had slightly better graphics on multiplats, and the console was much cheaper. I think their ps4 will be more balanced, but they could have put something stronger in there than a hd 7850 and an intel cpu instead of an amd cpu. If xbox makes something stronger they could get an even worse asskicking than this gen.ronvalencia

Somebody needs to read basic PC concepts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

DDR3 @1333 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~666Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @1333 has ~21.3 GB/s bandwidth.

DDR3 @2133 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~1066Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @2133 has ~34.13 GB/s bandwidth.

GDDR5 @6000 Mhz is also refers to effective clock speed with base clock speed of 1500Mhz. Radeon HD 7770 Ghz Edition's quad channel 32bit GDRR5 @4500Mhz has ~72 GB/s bandwidth.

Sorry, GDDR5 is faster.

From http://www.nordichardware.com/CPU-Chipset/amd-kaveri-graphics-performance-on-par-with-radeon-hd-7750.html

AMD Kaveri APU would Radeon HD 7750 (8 CU @900Mhz) level GCN hence it's need for GDDR5 needs. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

There's a big reason why Intel equiped it's Intel Xeon Phi with GDDR5 instead of DDR3.

From JEDEC's information, both DDR4 and GDDR5M would be sharing SODIMM standard.

the worst overhype by far is MOTION CONTROLS

AmnesiaHaze

People hyped motion controls ?

Considering we have yet to see what the PS4 will put out due to the ram, I'd say this thread is about 2 years prematureohgeez

[QUOTE="ohgeez"]Considering we have yet to see what the PS4 will put out due to the ram, I'd say this thread is about 2 years prematuretormentos

Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show. 

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="evildead6789"]

It doesn't matter, you're comparing apples with oranges again. gddr5 doesn't run at 6000 mhz, it runs at 4x 1500 mhz. While dual channel ddr3 @ 1333 mhz run at 2x 1333 mhz. Triple channel at 3 x 1333 mhz. Even if you would have 4 channels available, then it's useless when the cpu doesn't support it. I suppose sony could have a custom cpu from amd that supports 4 channels but that still doesn't match current pc's. Ddr3 can run at 2133 mhz so when you have a triple channel motherboard , you have 6400 mhz. And to be honest , faster system memory than dual channel 1333 mhz doesn't have that much benefit when it comes to games. So since the gddr5 is shared memory , i really can't see what would be the advantage over current pc's, since they already have gddr5 on the graphics cards. Off course it's very nice we finally will have a next gen console but if you look at the other stuff like the chipset and core clock rates of gpu and cpu, then it's nowhere near current pc's. My medium game pc is faster than the ps4. The ps4 will not be the technological leap that the ps3 was. The ps3 at that time had 8 cores, and there weren't even quad cores available, and the gpu chipset was one of the strongest you could find. Sadly the x360 was a more balanced system, 8 cores are close to useless when your gpu bottlnecks. The x360 had less cores but a slightly better gpu and 3 cores, which were more than enough. So you can conclude that 8gb gddr5 of shared memory is nice, but cpu and gpu are very important too, and they're also nice. I don't expect the hardware to take such leaps as it did in era of 2006- 2012, but off course you can't predict the future. It would have been nice if sony's ps4 was stronger though, but they're scared because of their ps3 fail. It wasn't balanced hardware , so it was overpriced. They had to sell the system with a loss because they put way to much cpu-cores in there and it never delivered. Can't you remember their promise, 'it costs more than the x360, but it's way stronger, it has 8 cores, so expect better games'. Sadly the x360 had slightly better graphics on multiplats, and the console was much cheaper. I think their ps4 will be more balanced, but they could have put something stronger in there than a hd 7850 and an intel cpu instead of an amd cpu. If xbox makes something stronger they could get an even worse asskicking than this gen.evildead6789

Somebody needs to read basic PC concepts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

DDR3 @1333 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~666Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @1333 has ~21.3 GB/s bandwidth.

DDR3 @2133 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~1066Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @2133 has ~34.13 GB/s bandwidth.

GDDR5 @6000 Mhz is also refers to effective clock speed with base clock speed of 1500Mhz. Radeon HD 7770 Ghz Edition's quad channel 32bit GDRR5 @4500Mhz has ~72 GB/s bandwidth.

Sorry, GDDR5 is faster.

From http://www.nordichardware.com/CPU-Chipset/amd-kaveri-graphics-performance-on-par-with-radeon-hd-7750.html

AMD Kaveri APU would Radeon HD 7750 (8 CU @900Mhz) level GCN hence it's need for GDDR5 needs. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

There's a big reason why Intel equiped it's Intel Xeon Phi with GDDR5 instead of DDR3.

From JEDEC's information, both DDR4 and GDDR5M would be sharing SODIMM standard.

Not just 8bit prefetch buffer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

GDDR5 operates with two different clock types. A differential command clock (CK) as a reference for address and command inputs, and a forwarded differential write clock (WCK) as a reference for data reads and writes. Being more precise, the GDDR5 SGRAM uses two write clocks, each of them assigned to two bytes. The WCK runs at twice the CK frequency. Taking a GDDR5 with 5 Gbit/s data rate per pin as an example, the CK clock runs with 1.25 GHz and WCK with 2.5 GHz. The CK and WCK clocks will be aligned during the initialization and training sequence. This alignment allows read and write access with minimum latency.

Intel CPU's's memory controllers are limited by the established DDR3 memory bandwidth i.e. the bandwidth results are not the same.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gddr5/Pages/gddr5.aspx

[QUOTE="evildead6789"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Somebody needs to read basic PC concepts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

DDR3 @1333 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~666Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @1333 has ~21.3 GB/s bandwidth.

DDR3 @2133 Mhz refer to it's effective clock speed i.e. it has I/O clock speed of ~1066Mhz. A dual channel 64bit @ DDR3 @2133 has ~34.13 GB/s bandwidth.

 

GDDR5 @6000 Mhz is also refers to effective clock speed with base clock speed of 1500Mhz. Radeon HD 7770 Ghz Edition's quad channel 32bit GDRR5 @4500Mhz has ~72 GB/s bandwidth.

 

Sorry, GDDR5 is faster.

 

From http://www.nordichardware.com/CPU-Chipset/amd-kaveri-graphics-performance-on-par-with-radeon-hd-7750.html

AMD Kaveri APU would Radeon HD 7750 (8 CU @900Mhz) level GCN hence it's need for GDDR5 needs. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

 

 

There's a big reason why Intel equiped it's Intel Xeon Phi with GDDR5 instead of DDR3.

 

From JEDEC's information, both DDR4 and GDDR5M would be sharing SODIMM standard.

 

 

 

ronvalencia

Not just 8bit prefetch buffer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

GDDR5 operates with two different clock types. A differential command clock (CK) as a reference for address and command inputs, and a forwarded differential write clock (WCK) as a reference for data reads and writes. Being more precise, the GDDR5 SGRAM uses two write clocks, each of them assigned to two bytes. The WCK runs at twice the CK frequency. Taking a GDDR5 with 5 Gbit/s data rate per pin as an example, the CK clock runs with 1.25 GHz and WCK with 2.5 GHz. The CK and WCK clocks will be aligned during the initialization and training sequence. This alignment allows read and write access with minimum latency.

It doesn´t matter how fast the ram is. What is the purpose of those data transference rates without a good gpu ? PS4 cpu and gpu will be a bottleneck to those GBs of ram.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="ohgeez"]Considering we have yet to see what the PS4 will put out due to the ram, I'd say this thread is about 2 years prematurejhonMalcovich

Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gcn/Pages/gcn-architecture.aspx

Partially Resident Textures (PRT)

Even in the latest titles, gamers may have noticed that games often re-use or repeat textures, particularly on the ground or in background scenery such as mountains or trees. This is because increasing the physical size or number of textures in a game can have a negative impact on the performance of a GPU. PRT is a radical new technology that hopes to break this cycle.

PRT can utilize absolutely enormous texture files, up to 32 terabytes large, with minimal performance impact. PRT accomplishes this by streaming small bits of these massive textures into the GPU as needed, giving compatible games a virtually endless supply of unique texture data it can apply to the game world. The GCN Architecture in 28nm AMD Radeon products is the first GPU design to feature a hardware implementation of this technology. Partially Resident Textures (PRT) enables future games to utilize ultra-high resolution textures with the same performance as today's small and often repetitive textures

AMD designed the GCN to cover current PC's slower DDR3 and smaller but faster** GDDR5 memory pool.

**For Radeon HD 79x0/89x0-OEM.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="evildead6789"] I apparently mixed up the channels with the bits bus and the pli. It doesn't matter, the results are still the same, The fact is that gddr5 is infact ddr3, only with an 8 bit prefetch buffer. That explains the higher bandwith of the gdrr5 but The fsb to the cpu on intel cpu's is ddr3 quad pumped. So call it want you want it's both ddr3 sdram, it doesn't matter what they do to get higher data rates, use higher buffers or multipump. It's the same ram. The only advantage of gddr5 is because it's cheaper at higher clock speeds, it's in your own article.jhonMalcovich

Not just 8bit prefetch buffer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

GDDR5 operates with two different clock types. A differential command clock (CK) as a reference for address and command inputs, and a forwarded differential write clock (WCK) as a reference for data reads and writes. Being more precise, the GDDR5 SGRAM uses two write clocks, each of them assigned to two bytes. The WCK runs at twice the CK frequency. Taking a GDDR5 with 5 Gbit/s data rate per pin as an example, the CK clock runs with 1.25 GHz and WCK with 2.5 GHz. The CK and WCK clocks will be aligned during the initialization and training sequence. This alignment allows read and write access with minimum latency.

It doesn´t matter how fast the ram is. What is the purpose of those data transference rates without a good gpu ? PS4 cpu and gpu will be a bottleneck to those GBs of ram.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] For sure the PS4 will not suffer like the PS3 did,most of the games will maintain high resolution textures,great draw distances and great open areas for quite a while based on Ram alone,i can just wait until sony dev teams start abusing that ram and loading some huge textures that get chocked on PC GPU with low ram..ronvalencia

Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/gcn/Pages/gcn-architecture.aspx

Partially Resident Textures (PRT)

Even in the latest titles, gamers may have noticed that games often re-use or repeat textures, particularly on the ground or in background scenery such as mountains or trees. This is because increasing the physical size or number of textures in a game can have a negative impact on the performance of a GPU. PRT is a radical new technology that hopes to break this cycle.

PRT can utilize absolutely enormous texture files, up to 32 terabytes large, with minimal performance impact. PRT accomplishes this by streaming small bits of these massive textures into the GPU as needed, giving compatible games a virtually endless supply of unique texture data it can apply to the game world. The GCN Architecture in 28nm AMD Radeon products is the first GPU design to feature a hardware implementation of this technology. Partially Resident Textures (PRT) enables future games to utilize ultra-high resolution textures with the same performance as today's small and often repetitive textures

AMD designed the GCN to cover current PC's slower DDR3 and smaller but faster** GDDR5 memory pool.

**For Radeon HD 79x0/89x0-OEM.

So this tech will be available for both PS4 and PC. The thing is if those texture will choke PC gpus then they will choke PS4 gpu too.

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

the worst overhype by far is MOTION CONTROLS

Sagem28

People hyped motion controls ?

I'm wondering how AMD is going to overcome the small size of GDDR5 modules as opposed to DDR3.  I think GDDR5 equipped APUs are likely to be a server only product.  Any normal consumer products are likely to be few and far between considering the cost of GDDR5, more likely to be in specifically designed consumer products like an Android streaming system. 

That or AMD has been working with Samsung or whoever on making larger GDDR5 chips in preparation.  

On the PS4, the GDDR5 makes sense.  It gets Sony the mobo simplicity and bandwidth they desire to fully leverage the APU.  The provision of 8 GB gives devs the room they want to develop very large games and not have to worry so much about memory limits.  It makes complete sense.  The Cell on the otherhand was a radical new architecture, one that required new paradigms in programming.  It was the first multicore architecture for many developers, and compared to PC x86 and even Xenon, was complicated and lacked much of the general purpose computing performance it really needed.  

GDDR5 isn't an overhype.8GB of it is good to have in a console. :roll:

I'm wondering how AMD is going to overcome the small size of GDDR5 modules as opposed to DDR3.  I think GDDR5 equipped APUs are likely to be a server only product.  Any normal consumer products are likely to be few and far between considering the cost of GDDR5, more likely to be in specifically designed consumer products like an Android streaming system. 

That or AMD has been working with Samsung or whoever on making larger GDDR5 chips in preparation.  

PC_Otter

GDDR5 isn't an overhype.8GB of it is good to have in a console. :roll:

clr84651

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]

[QUOTE="AmnesiaHaze"]

the worst overhype by far is MOTION CONTROLS

AmnesiaHaze

People hyped motion controls ?

I wasn't really on the Wii hype train, so I don't remember.

You're probably right though.

[QUOTE="clr84651"]

GDDR5 isn't an overhype.8GB of it is good to have in a console. :roll:

clyde46

Yeah really.  I don't see how 8gb of ram can be a flop.  It isn't going to make the console extremely difficult and expensive to develop for, unlike teh cell.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="clr84651"]

GDDR5 isn't an overhype.8GB of it is good to have in a console. :roll:

hoola

Yeah really.  I don't see how 8gb of ram can be a flop.  It isn't going to make the console extremely difficult and expensive to develop for, unlike teh cell.

[QUOTE="PC_Otter"]

I'm wondering how AMD is going to overcome the small size of GDDR5 modules as opposed to DDR3.  I think GDDR5 equipped APUs are likely to be a server only product.  Any normal consumer products are likely to be few and far between considering the cost of GDDR5, more likely to be in specifically designed consumer products like an Android streaming system. 

That or AMD has been working with Samsung or whoever on making larger GDDR5 chips in preparation.  

clyde46

It will be funny, if those 8gb, in the end, won´t be enough, like it happens with all consoles after a few years.

I mean those 8gb will be shared with OS, additional system services, texture storage, and gaming logical data. You forget that gaming logical data nowdays can reach some 2GB. Because not everything that is stored in RAM is displayed on the screen, I am talking about gaming data such as object Hero, object Monster, object item, etc that store gaming stats and parameters and that interact with each other. That all data needs to be stored in some place. In PC, it´s stored in DDR3 leaving GDDR5 memory free for processing textures and visual effects, in PS4, it will be strored in the same 8 gb GDDR5 pool.

[QUOTE="hoola"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] This! Finally a Cow that is saying something sensible! Good man!clyde46

Yeah really.  I don't see how 8gb of ram can be a flop.  It isn't going to make the console extremely difficult and expensive to develop for, unlike teh cell.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="hoola"]

Yeah really.  I don't see how 8gb of ram can be a flop.  It isn't going to make the console extremely difficult and expensive to develop for, unlike teh cell.

PC_Otter

Both are awesome. Badosh

[QUOTE="PC_Otter"][QUOTE="clyde46"] If anything, this gen we are going to see better games as now the consoles are very similar to PC's. clyde46

Memory wise yes that is true but for the hardware front no. In the past consoles have always ran out of memory before actually maxing out the hardware. This upcoming generation of consoles it will be in reverse. Where the hardware will be maxed out long before the memory will be. early to mid life of the consoles will  most likely only see a few gb used for video couple for game cache, and the rest will be for the OS and reserved for those features that will eat into the memory, then in late of the life cycle will will see them throwing more memory into the game usage cutting out the extra features and possibly lower resolution and other aspects to make the games look more flashy not "better"

Last generation of consoles especially the 360 was top of its game hardware wise(not memory) back in 2005 matching to surpassing pc hardware, which is why the 360 has lasted for a long time with better looking games overall then other consoles. And the PS3 was for a very very short time on par with most upper end pc hardware until the introduction of the geforce 8's and faster dual core cpu's. This time around consoles are not even close to matching high tier hardware. I think the next set of consoles will have a strong start but will quickly see a plateau much sooner then this generation because of vast difference in processing abilities between the new console vs pc even before they have released.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="ohgeez"]Considering we have yet to see what the PS4 will put out due to the ram, I'd say this thread is about 2 years prematurejhonMalcovich

Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show. 

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="evildead6789"] I apparently mixed up the channels with the bits bus and the pli. It doesn't matter, the results are still the same, The fact is that gddr5 is infact ddr3, only with an 8 bit prefetch buffer. That explains the higher bandwith of the gdrr5 but The fsb to the cpu on intel cpu's is ddr3 quad pumped. So call it want you want it's both ddr3 sdram, it doesn't matter what they do to get higher data rates, use higher buffers or multipump. It's the same ram. The only advantage of gddr5 is because it's cheaper at higher clock speeds, it's in your own article.jhonMalcovich

Not just 8bit prefetch buffer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

GDDR5 operates with two different clock types. A differential command clock (CK) as a reference for address and command inputs, and a forwarded differential write clock (WCK) as a reference for data reads and writes. Being more precise, the GDDR5 SGRAM uses two write clocks, each of them assigned to two bytes. The WCK runs at twice the CK frequency. Taking a GDDR5 with 5 Gbit/s data rate per pin as an example, the CK clock runs with 1.25 GHz and WCK with 2.5 GHz. The CK and WCK clocks will be aligned during the initialization and training sequence. This alignment allows read and write access with minimum latency.

It doesn´t matter how fast the ram is. What is the purpose of those data transference rates without a good gpu ? PS4 cpu and gpu will be a bottleneck to those GBs of ram.

A system with ddr3 on the cpu but with a faster cpu and a faster gpu will be way more performant. It's like comparing and phenom II x 955 with a hd 7770 and ram clocked at 2100 mhz with my system. That system will only gain a few fps because of the faster ram, while my pc will gain dozens of fps because of the faster cpu and gpu.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="PC_Otter"] The performance gap, like past generations will still end up giving the overall win to PC. x86 in consoles and PC will mean a more level playing field when it comes feature set however, so PC exclusive graphics features will of course come down to AA, AF, and perhaps higher res shadows and textures. That has already been an "issue" this current gen, though DX11 helped to push PC further ahead, and increase rendering efficiency. 04dcarraher

Memory wise yes that is true but for the hardware front no. In the past consoles have always ran out of memory before actually maxing out the hardware. This upcoming generation of consoles it will be in reverse. Where the hardware will be maxed out long before the memory will be. early to mid life of the consoles will  most likely only see a few gb used for video couple for game cache, and the rest will be for the OS and reserved for those features that will eat into the memory, then in late of the life cycle will will see them throwing more memory into the game usage cutting out the extra features and possibly lower resolution and other aspects to make the games look more flashy not "better"

Last generation of consoles especially the 360 was top of its game hardware wise(not memory) back in 2005 matching to surpassing pc hardware, which is why the 360 has lasted for a long time with better looking games overall then other consoles. And the PS3 was for a very very short time on par with most upper end pc hardware until the introduction of the geforce 8's and faster dual core cpu's. This time around consoles are not even close to matching high tier hardware. I think the next set of consoles will have a strong start but will quickly see a plateau much sooner then this generation because of vast difference in processing abilities between the new console vs pc even before they have released.

You can never have enough RAM.  Leftover could just be used for faster loading.

Also PS4 is just as powerful if not more so than 360 for its time, you have to consider how much faster technology has progressed than last gen, just because technology has progressed much farther doesn't mean console's can cope with all that extra power and heat.

Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show. jhonMalcovich

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] I think the problem came when we started to see that the 360 and PS3 were almost tapped out. The 360 was released in 2005 so its done well to get this far. This gen has gone on a lot longer than any other so we have been limited by old hardware in the consoles which required some rather brutal methods to force PC's to follow suit. Next gen, consoles are going to have a lot more grunt compared to last gen. Chozofication

Memory wise yes that is true but for the hardware front no. In the past consoles have always ran out of memory before actually maxing out the hardware. This upcoming generation of consoles it will be in reverse. Where the hardware will be maxed out long before the memory will be. early to mid life of the consoles will  most likely only see a few gb used for video couple for game cache, and the rest will be for the OS and reserved for those features that will eat into the memory, then in late of the life cycle will will see them throwing more memory into the game usage cutting out the extra features and possibly lower resolution and other aspects to make the games look more flashy not "better"

Last generation of consoles especially the 360 was top of its game hardware wise(not memory) back in 2005 matching to surpassing pc hardware, which is why the 360 has lasted for a long time with better looking games overall then other consoles. And the PS3 was for a very very short time on par with most upper end pc hardware until the introduction of the geforce 8's and faster dual core cpu's. This time around consoles are not even close to matching high tier hardware. I think the next set of consoles will have a strong start but will quickly see a plateau much sooner then this generation because of vast difference in processing abilities between the new console vs pc even before they have released.

You can never have enough RAM.  Leftover could just be used for faster loading.

Also PS4 is just as powerful if not more so than 360 for its time, you have to consider how much faster technology has progressed than last gen, just because technology has progressed much farther doesn't mean console's can cope with all that extra power and heat.

No the PS4 is not as fast as the 360 was for its time frame at its release. The problem is that teh PS4's hardware is not even at the same ratio at before its less. the 360's hardware rivaled top ended cpu's and gpu's all the way into 2006 since its hardware was on par or faster then the best pc hardware at that time. Now fast forward to 2013 the PS4 is using low TDP based laptop 8 core based cpu that is only clocked at 2 ghz or less. Then you have the GPU where it onlt sits between the 7850 and 7870 gpu's in processing power. The PS4 is not even close in rivaling top end pc's since pc have gpu's like the GTX 670/680, 7950,7970 and the titian which all are nearly 2 or more times faster then the PS4's gpu.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show. tormentos

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

Memory wise yes that is true but for the hardware front no. In the past consoles have always ran out of memory before actually maxing out the hardware. This upcoming generation of consoles it will be in reverse. Where the hardware will be maxed out long before the memory will be. early to mid life of the consoles will  most likely only see a few gb used for video couple for game cache, and the rest will be for the OS and reserved for those features that will eat into the memory, then in late of the life cycle will will see them throwing more memory into the game usage cutting out the extra features and possibly lower resolution and other aspects to make the games look more flashy not "better"

Last generation of consoles especially the 360 was top of its game hardware wise(not memory) back in 2005 matching to surpassing pc hardware, which is why the 360 has lasted for a long time with better looking games overall then other consoles. And the PS3 was for a very very short time on par with most upper end pc hardware until the introduction of the geforce 8's and faster dual core cpu's. This time around consoles are not even close to matching high tier hardware. I think the next set of consoles will have a strong start but will quickly see a plateau much sooner then this generation because of vast difference in processing abilities between the new console vs pc even before they have released.

04dcarraher

You can never have enough RAM.  Leftover could just be used for faster loading.

I know.  I only mentioned faster loading. 

Btw, read my edit.  Ps4 is a beast except CPU which will get the job done, CPU's have become more than powerful enough for anything developers would want to do in games within reason.

[QUOTE="clr84651"]

GDDR5 isn't an overhype.8GB of it is good to have in a console. :roll:

clyde46

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="clr84651"]

GDDR5 isn't an overhype.8GB of it is good to have in a console. :roll:

tormentos

consoles are for plebs, that is all

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]Keep dreaming. From those 8gb, at least, 2gb will be occupied by system processes. Those huge textures you are talking about will slow down PS4 gpu (ati 7850) to a slide show. tormentos

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="Chozofication"]

You can never have enough RAM.  Leftover could just be used for faster loading.

Chozofication

I know.  I only mentioned faster loading. 

Btw, read my edit.  Ps4 is a beast except CPU which will get the job done, CPU's have become more than powerful enough for anything developers would want to do in games within reason.

GDDR5, i still like using "teh cell".

Throwing more memory into video usage will not gain anymore performance for the gpu and once you reach the 4gb mark increasing detail and texture resolution becomes pointless at 1080 since there is not enough pixel resolution to show all the detail of the textures. 04dcarraher

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] throwing more onto the game cache and not having go to the hdd or disc will help with faster loading , but Throwing more memory into video usage will not gain anymore performance for the gpu and once you reach the 4gb mark increasing detail and texture resolution becomes pointless at 1080 since there is not enough pixel resolution to show all the detail of the textures. 04dcarraher

I know.  I only mentioned faster loading. 

Btw, read my edit.  Ps4 is a beast except CPU which will get the job done, CPU's have become more than powerful enough for anything developers would want to do in games within reason.

So you're ignoring how much quicker technology has progressed this generation, then.  And the part which CPU's have now taken a backseat in gaming.

Gotcha.  And I don't think you know the extent of which the 360 was bottlenecked by its RAM amount - a lot.  Ps4's and 720's RAM amount is a huge deal.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Throwing more memory into video usage will not gain anymore performance for the gpu and once you reach the 4gb mark increasing detail and texture resolution becomes pointless at 1080 since there is not enough pixel resolution to show all the detail of the textures. tormentos

I believe if the 360 had gotten another 256MB increase in RAM, it would have shown huge gains.  If they had used a less expensive X86 CPU to get that, that would've been perfect.  Ps4 is a much more balanced console than 360 was.

Not only that but that would have allowed for far easier BC with the OG xbox.  Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

I know.  I only mentioned faster loading. 

Btw, read my edit.  Ps4 is a beast except CPU which will get the job done, CPU's have become more than powerful enough for anything developers would want to do in games within reason.

Chozofication

So you're ignoring how much quicker technology has progressed this generation, then.  And the part which CPU's have now taken a backseat in gaming.

Gotcha.  And I don't think you know the extent of which the 360 was bottlenecked by its RAM amount - a lot.  Ps4's and 720's RAM amount is a huge deal.

To put into terms for you to understandthe ratio for the timeframe for the hardware for their era.

360 used top tier hardware with a lack of mermory

the PS4 is using mid tier hardware with plenty of memory

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Throwing more memory into video usage will not gain anymore performance for the gpu and once you reach the 4gb mark increasing detail and texture resolution becomes pointless at 1080 since there is not enough pixel resolution to show all the detail of the textures. clyde46

...if any thing "standard" PCs would be no where near PS4 in power when it comes to graphics and gaming. 

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Throwing more memory into video usage will not gain anymore performance for the gpu and once you reach the 4gb mark increasing detail and texture resolution becomes pointless at 1080 since there is not enough pixel resolution to show all the detail of the textures. clyde46

Standard PC's has 8 core CPU and buffed up radeon 7850? wow lol

Many PC gamers use Intel HD 3000 xD