Who in the heck are we talking about here????

Ahh, these price point and sales threads and posts are hilarious. It seems most of the posters here forgot about reality.

Example: The ficticious gamer

So, if you listen to 360 supporters, there are droves of gamers who want an HD gaming console but don't want to game online, won't ever need to take their console a normal cable's length away from their modem/router, and could care less about watching HD movies (unless its on the super sweet NetFlix, :lol:)

I contend that this type of buyer is in the minority. I think that anyone who really owns a HDTV sees the big benefit in HD resolutions. Especially when you consider most SD TV looks horrible on HDTV's. In fact, most HDTV owners become HD-snobs and reduce the amount of channels they watch just to stick with HD quality. This also means that they do have an interest in blu-ray movies. Not saying it would always be a large interest but enough to give the blu-ray feature some worth.

But some will say, "Most don't care about HD that much. It doesn't even look that different." Then why buy a HD console?

I also find it outlanduish that 360 supports suggest that there are droves of gamers out there not interested in online gaming. Sure, little Timmy and little Sarah might care less about playing online. But any REAL gamer sees the extra value and endless hours of play with online gaming. Not to mention, one of 360's touted advantages over the PS3 is the online play.

Then they want to pretend that most people live in a one room apartment. That people never need to move their console far enough away from their modem/router to need wifi. And this is a great thought if everyone on this planet was 18-22 years old.

"What's your figgin point," you ask.

My point is, most of the people who have bought or will buy the cheaper 360 models will end up spending more money than the initial point of sale. And by looking at some of the biggest, most popular items to buy for 360 you can see it doesn't take long to spend a hundred. Oh, we can inhale some Kameo dust and make ourselves believe that a REAL gamer would be happy with a arcade model. But the reality is, in the long run, that person will get less bang-for-the-buck.

Think about it people. You looked at PS2 last gen and said, "Great its selling well, but it is the inferior product because you get more with the Xbox." And you were right. Why? Because Xbox gave you the best value for your money.

Isn't that what we want as REAL gamers? Don't we want these companies to make us consoles that will give us the best value and experience? Or do we want the consoles to tailor to the casuals and just sell well?

** Before any of you try to be smart and say, "Says the PS3 supporter while Sony's in third place." I will stick with this opinion no matter where PS3 ends up. Whether PS3 comes in 1, 2, or 3, I believe it gives and will always give the best for your money. You will see this demonstrated this spring when Sony drops the price on a PS3 model that will STILL have blu-ray, HDD, and wireless ALL INCLUDED.

Ahh, these price point and sales threads and posts are hilarious. It seems most of the posters here forgot about reality.

Example: The ficticious gamer

So, if you listen to 360 supporters, there are droves of gamers who want an HD gaming console but don't want to game online, won't ever need to take their console a normal cable's length away from their modem/router, and could care less about watching HD movies (unless its on the super sweet NetFlix, :lol:)

I contend that this type of buyer is in the minority. I think that anyone who really owns a HDTV sees the big benefit in HD resolutions. Especially when you consider most SD TV looks horrible on HDTV's. In fact, most HDTV owners become HD-snobs and reduce the amount of channels they watch just to stick with HD quality. This also means that they do have an interest in blu-ray movies. Not saying it would always be a large interest but enough to give the blu-ray feature some worth.

But some will say, "Most don't care about HD that much. It doesn't even look that different." Then why buy a HD console?

I also find it outlanduish that 360 supports suggest that there are droves of gamers out there not interested in online gaming. Sure, little Timmy and little Sarah might care less about playing online. But any REAL gamer sees the extra value and endless hours of play with online gaming. Not to mention, one of 360's touted advantages over the PS3 is the online play.

Then they want to pretend that most people live in a one room apartment. That people never need to move their console far enough away from their modem/router to need wifi. And this is a great thought if everyone on this planet was 18-22 years old.

"What's your figgin point," you ask.

My point is, most of the people who have bought or will buy the cheaper 360 models will end up spending more money than the initial point of sale. And by looking at some of the biggest, most popular items to buy for 360 you can see it doesn't take long to spend a hundred. Oh, we can inhale some Kameo dust and make ourselves believe that a REAL gamer would be happy with a arcade model. But the reality is, in the long run, that person will get less bang-for-the-buck.

Think about it people. You looked at PS2 last gen and said, "Great its selling well, but it is the inferior product because you get more with the Xbox." And you were right. Why? Because Xbox gave you the best value for your money.

Isn't that what we want as REAL gamers? Don't we want these companies to make us consoles that will give us the best value and experience? Or do we want the consoles to tailor to the casuals and just sell well?

** Before any of you try to be smart and say, "Says the PS3 supporter while Sony's in third place." I will stick with this opinion no matter where PS3 ends up. Whether PS3 comes in 1, 2, or 3, I believe it gives and will always give the best for your money. You will see this demonstrated this spring when Sony drops the price on a PS3 model that will STILL have blu-ray, HDD, and wireless ALL INCLUDED.

PoppaGamer

If HD was so important then no one would buy a console. I mean 720p is sub hd and thats what most games run in.

If HD was so important then no one would buy a console. I mean 720p is sub hd and thats what most games run in. Frozzik

If HD was so important then no one would buy a console. I mean 720p is sub hd and thats what most games run in.

Frozzik

[QUOTE="Frozzik"]If HD was so important then no one would buy a console. I mean 720p is sub hd and thats what most games run in. Eddie5vs1

Yeah, ur right i guess. Just to me 720 is so low lol. Sorry but it is. I was playing games at higher resolutions than that when PS2 was around.

[QUOTE="Frozzik"]If HD was so important then no one would buy a console. I mean 720p is sub hd and thats what most games run in. Eddie5vs1

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"]How is 720p "sub HD"? Any definition over 480i is considered HD, with the exception being 480p which is considered ED (Enhanced Definition).Frozzik

Yeah, ur right i guess. Just to me 720 is so low lol. Sorry but it is. I was playing games at higher resolutions than that when PS2 was around.

So, what's your point? Do you want a cookie?

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

Ahh, these price point and sales threads and posts are hilarious. It seems most of the posters here forgot about reality.

Example: The ficticious gamer

So, if you listen to 360 supporters, there are droves of gamers who want an HD gaming console but don't want to game online, won't ever need to take their console a normal cable's length away from their modem/router, and could care less about watching HD movies (unless its on the super sweet NetFlix, :lol:)

I contend that this type of buyer is in the minority. I think that anyone who really owns a HDTV sees the big benefit in HD resolutions. Especially when you consider most SD TV looks horrible on HDTV's. In fact, most HDTV owners become HD-snobs and reduce the amount of channels they watch just to stick with HD quality. This also means that they do have an interest in blu-ray movies. Not saying it would always be a large interest but enough to give the blu-ray feature some worth.

But some will say, "Most don't care about HD that much. It doesn't even look that different." Then why buy a HD console?

I also find it outlanduish that 360 supports suggest that there are droves of gamers out there not interested in online gaming. Sure, little Timmy and little Sarah might care less about playing online. But any REAL gamer sees the extra value and endless hours of play with online gaming. Not to mention, one of 360's touted advantages over the PS3 is the online play.

Then they want to pretend that most people live in a one room apartment. That people never need to move their console far enough away from their modem/router to need wifi. And this is a great thought if everyone on this planet was 18-22 years old.

"What's your figgin point," you ask.

My point is, most of the people who have bought or will buy the cheaper 360 models will end up spending more money than the initial point of sale. And by looking at some of the biggest, most popular items to buy for 360 you can see it doesn't take long to spend a hundred. Oh, we can inhale some Kameo dust and make ourselves believe that a REAL gamer would be happy with a arcade model. But the reality is, in the long run, that person will get less bang-for-the-buck.

Think about it people. You looked at PS2 last gen and said, "Great its selling well, but it is the inferior product because you get more with the Xbox." And you were right. Why? Because Xbox gave you the best value for your money.

Isn't that what we want as REAL gamers? Don't we want these companies to make us consoles that will give us the best value and experience? Or do we want the consoles to tailor to the casuals and just sell well?

** Before any of you try to be smart and say, "Says the PS3 supporter while Sony's in third place." I will stick with this opinion no matter where PS3 ends up. Whether PS3 comes in 1, 2, or 3, I believe it gives and will always give the best for your money. You will see this demonstrated this spring when Sony drops the price on a PS3 model that will STILL have blu-ray, HDD, and wireless ALL INCLUDED.

[QUOTE="Frozzik"]

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"]How is 720p "sub HD"? Any definition over 480i is considered HD, with the exception being 480p which is considered ED (Enhanced Definition).SpruceCaboose

Yeah, ur right i guess. Just to me 720 is so low lol. Sorry but it is. I was playing games at higher resolutions than that when PS2 was around.

Here is a chart that could help with the HD and difference issue.

yeah and? i play on a 40" tv from about 1.5 metres away. I will never understand the point of a big tv when you sit 10 feet away, may aswell play on a 20" close up. I notice difference between 720p and 1080p.

So, what's your point? Do you want a cookie?

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

PoppaGamer

720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. Eyezonmii

Hmmm...in some ways I agree with your post, in some ways I don't. First off, I have NEVER seen a 360 supporter say that the online component isn't important. Where are you getting this information? Secondly, while I love my PS3, my 360 is my primary gaming console. I'm tired of hearing that "if you add in x, y, and z, the PS3 is actually cheaper. No it isn't. If I want to play the current gen games I pay $199 for an Xbox 360 or $399 for a PS3. I agree with you that most arcade/core owners would greatly benefit from an HDD and that not making them standard on all 360's was a bad decision on MS's part. Thirdly, the reality is that many people still do not own an HDTV. Also, speaking of HDD, at least the Arcade/Core can do it out of the box. Sony says the ps3 is the only "true HD console", and yet they don't even include an HD connection in the box. Lastly, there are pros and cons to each console. Whether it be MS, Sony, or Nintendo, there are things I love and dislike about each console, but IMO, they put all 3 on a level playing field.Eddie5vs1

I can agree with that, the PS3 is better value over the 360 just how the Xbox was better value than the PS2. But don't you think it sucks how the PS3 doesn't come with a HD cable? It's silly because it comes with everything else you need.Floppy_Jim

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. SpruceCaboose

So, what's your point? Do you want a cookie?

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

Please, don't get me wrong. Sony has done a lot to screw itself in the market here. And just as you two above have mentioned, a little thing like a component or HDMI cable is ludicrous. Buuut, where PS3 falls short on hardware, a solution is cheap. You can buy ANY HDMI cable out there. YOIu are not ties to a SOny branded cable. Same goes for the HDD's, But with 360 it has to be MS branded. But the person who doesn't have HDMI in on their HDTV is, frankyl, screwed. So, you guys have a point there.PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] 1080p is only Full HD because Sony thought it up as a marketing term. If 1080p is Full HD (or Total HD as some companies are calling it), what would 1440p be? Its all marketing fluff to make the consumer believe that 1080p is the "real" HD.Eddie5vs1

You looked at PS2 last gen and said, "Great its selling well, but it is the inferior product because you get more with the Xbox." And you were right. Why? Because Xbox gave you the best value for your money.

Isn't that what we want as REAL gamers? Don't we want these companies to make us consoles that will give us the best value and experience?PoppaGamer

although inferior hardware wise the ps2 had far more games and better games. i think that it is more value for money when you have quantity and quality.

this gen 360 up until now is delivering on the quantity and quality, while the ps3 is starting to level the field the 360 is definitely ahead on value for money. This is were the wii is currently failing, huge quantity but not enough quality, and inferior hardware.

NO its not, its FULL because its the highest RESO the majority of HD sets hold...untill those OTHER higher res are the norm, then you can talk. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Please, don't get me wrong. Sony has done a lot to screw itself in the market here. And just as you two above have mentioned, a little thing like a component or HDMI cable is ludicrous. Buuut, where PS3 falls short on hardware, a solution is cheap. You can buy ANY HDMI cable out there. YOIu are not ties to a SOny branded cable. Same goes for the HDD's, But with 360 it has to be MS branded. But the person who doesn't have HDMI in on their HDTV is, frankyl, screwed. So, you guys have a point there.Eddie5vs1

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"]Hmmm...in some ways I agree with your post, in some ways I don't. First off, I have NEVER seen a 360 supporter say that the online component isn't important. Where are you getting this information? Secondly, while I love my PS3, my 360 is my primary gaming console. I'm tired of hearing that "if you add in x, y, and z, the PS3 is actually cheaper. No it isn't. If I want to play the current gen games I pay $199 for an Xbox 360 or $399 for a PS3. I agree with you that most arcade/core owners would greatly benefit from an HDD and that not making them standard on all 360's was a bad decision on MS's part. Thirdly, the reality is that many people still do not own an HDTV. Also, speaking of HDD, at least the Arcade/Core can do it out of the box. Sony says the ps3 is the only "true HD console", and yet they don't even include an HD connection in the box. Lastly, there are pros and cons to each console. Whether it be MS, Sony, or Nintendo, there are things I love and dislike about each console, but IMO, they put all 3 on a level playing field.PoppaGamer

I can agree with that, the PS3 is better value over the 360 just how the Xbox was better value than the PS2. But don't you think it sucks how the PS3 doesn't come with a HD cable? It's silly because it comes with everything else you need.Floppy_Jim

Great points. I agree with you to a point. But if you want to talk about quality, you could start with the consoles themselves. We all know whose been more reliable. I think my console running solidly for over two years, with heavy use, outweighs some static from a gaming moron who has "open mic" on.PoppaGamer

I think there are HDMI to Component cables out there.TheGrat1

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] I am fully aware of the general public and their product knowledge. My point isn't to say they don't exist. My point is that REAL gamers using casual aimed sales as ownage is fruitless to that REAL gamer. If you take pride in your console selling because its been dumbed down enough to get the casuals to bite, I think that's sad. This goes right in-line with thought on how not having standard HDD's hurts the 360 in performance and quality FOR ALL. (we can debate that elsewhere).SpruceCaboose

Isn't that what we want as REAL gamers? Don't we want these companies to make us consoles that will give us the best value and experience?

although inferior hardware wise the ps2 had far more games and better games. i think that it is more value for money when you have quantity and quality.

this gen 360 up until now is delivering on the quantity and quality, while the ps3 is starting to level the field the 360 is definitely ahead on value for money. This is were the wii is currently failing, huge quantity but not enough quality, and inferior hardware.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] I am fully aware of the general public and their product knowledge. My point isn't to say they don't exist. My point is that REAL gamers using casual aimed sales as ownage is fruitless to that REAL gamer. If you take pride in your console selling because its been dumbed down enough to get the casuals to bite, I think that's sad. This goes right in-line with thought on how not having standard HDD's hurts the 360 in performance and quality FOR ALL. (we can debate that elsewhere).PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"] [QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I can agree with that, the PS3 is better value over the 360 just how the Xbox was better value than the PS2. But don't you think it sucks how the PS3 doesn't come with a HD cable? It's silly because it comes with everything else you need.TheGrat1

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] What about those of us who are gamers and not fanboys? I don't think I have "my" console. I have them all, and even if I didn't, I would still not have a "my" console. It should be about the games for a hardcore gamer, not the system.

And to that end, the console(s) that offers the most games that appeal to them should be the deciding factor, not the other, non-gaming features.Eddie5vs1

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] First off, at the price of this generation's consoles, I don't think its uncommon for a gamer to have to choose one or two consoles to buy and miss out on another. And when that choice has to be made, you have to take into account everything they offer. Second, your final point is humorous. I'm sure a lot of people look at a game like Halo 3 and totally forget about that "non-gaming feature" called online multiplayer. I'm sure a lot of gamers go on XBLA and want to own those games but can't without an HDD because some want to pretend and HDD is a "non-gaming feature." Yes, it is very clear you can buy a $200 arcade 360 and play games. Great. As I already laid oput in the topic, a REAL gamer, and ADULT gamer will want much more from their 360 than just that.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] First off, at the price of this generation's consoles, I don't think its uncommon for a gamer to have to choose one or two consoles to buy and miss out on another. And when that choice has to be made, you have to take into account everything they offer. Second, your final point is humorous. I'm sure a lot of people look at a game like Halo 3 and totally forget about that "non-gaming feature" called online multiplayer. I'm sure a lot of gamers go on XBLA and want to own those games but can't without an HDD because some want to pretend and HDD is a "non-gaming feature." Yes, it is very clear you can buy a $200 arcade 360 and play games. Great. As I already laid oput in the topic, a REAL gamer, and ADULT gamer will want much more from their 360 than just that.SpruceCaboose

A gamer who doesn't care about movies, music, downloads, and all of the greatest features of this gen probably isn't a real gamer. PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] First off, at the price of this generation's consoles, I don't think its uncommon for a gamer to have to choose one or two consoles to buy and miss out on another. And when that choice has to be made, you have to take into account everything they offer. Second, your final point is humorous. I'm sure a lot of people look at a game like Halo 3 and totally forget about that "non-gaming feature" called online multiplayer. I'm sure a lot of gamers go on XBLA and want to own those games but can't without an HDD because some want to pretend and HDD is a "non-gaming feature." Yes, it is very clear you can buy a $200 arcade 360 and play games. Great. As I already laid oput in the topic, a REAL gamer, and ADULT gamer will want much more from their 360 than just that.Eddie5vs1

720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. Eyezonmii

You guys really need to get your info straight before you start posting. The AVSforums are a good place to start. I see the same amount of misinformation when people are talking about the difference between HDMI and component cables. It's no wonder Monster cable can take so many people for a ride forcing them to buy super expensive cable when they can get the same thing for 5 bucks.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] A gamer who doesn't care about movies, music, downloads, and all of the greatest features of this gen probably isn't a real gamer. Eddie5vs1

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. heretrix

You guys really need to get your info straight before you start posting. The AVSforums are a good place to start. I see the same amount of misinformation when people are talking about the difference between HDMI and component cables. It's no wonder Monster cable can take so many people for a ride forcing them to buy super expensive cable when they can get the same thing for 5 bucks.

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] Well see, online gaming is game related, hence the term gaming in it. In non-gaming features, I mean Blu-Ray, Netflix, Internet browsers, and stuff like that. And as a REAL and ADULT gamer, who has been gaming for most of my life now, I think that the most important and most relevant thing for a game console is, you know, the games.PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] Well see, online gaming is game related, hence the term gaming in it. In non-gaming features, I mean Blu-Ray, Netflix, Internet browsers, and stuff like that. And as a REAL and ADULT gamer, who has been gaming for most of my life now, I think that the most important and most relevant thing for a game console is, you know, the games.PoppaGamer

Which is outselling which? You can cry, whine, make up as many reasons, excuses or just plain crazy remarks as you like but it wont change the fact that right now the consumor wants the 360.

Accept it, deal with it, get over it. The 360 *is* cheaper, you're being ignorant if you say otherwise. Stop thinking your the majority and realize your the minority, most people don't give a monkeys about extras, don't care about HD, don't care about HD Movies and god forbid don't *care* about online. Look no further than the Nintendo wii for proof.

Hell the 360 AND wii are walking proof, the console htat otped to shuve all that crap on the consumor is the one paying for it. Snap back to reality kids I'll repeat it once more: You are the minority YOU ARE NOT THE MAJORITY.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] Then why does MS and Sony spend so much time and money on all of those other features? And many of those features end up relating to gaming, dude. Internet browser can be used to watch GAME trailers and to read reviews and previews. The media Server freature on 360 and PS3 can help you in creating custom soundtracks for your games. And you can debate about the need for blu-ray in gaming within this generation.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] A gamer who doesn't care about movies, music, downloads, and all of the greatest features of this gen probably isn't a real gamer. PoppaGamer