Who in the heck are we talking about here????

Which is outselling which? You can cry, whine, make up as many reasons, excuses or just plain crazy remarks as you like but it wont change the fact that right now the consumor wants the 360.

Accept it, deal with it, get over it. The 360 *is* cheaper, you're being ignorant if you say otherwise. Stop thinking your the majority and realize your the minority, most people don't give a monkeys about extras, don't care about HD, don't care about HD Movies and god forbid don't *care* about online. Look no further than the Nintendo wii for proof.

Hell the 360 AND wii are walking proof, the console htat otped to shuve all that crap on the consumor is the one paying for it. Snap back to reality kids I'll repeat it once more: You are the minority YOU ARE NOT THE MAJORITY.

It is HD that gives 360 and PS3 the advantage over Wii. It is online gaming that gives PS3 and 360 an advantage over Wii. It is the media server feature that gives PS3 and 360 and advantage over the Wii. PoppaGamer

Wrong. If those things mean nothing to a person or most people then there is no advantage at all. In fact, it may turn out to be a disadvantage if it makes something cost more.

See the PS3.And the 360 to a certain extent. Their extra features mean nothing when the Wii is selling double sometimes triple what they do in a month.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] It is HD that gives 360 and PS3 the advantage over Wii. It is online gaming that gives PS3 and 360 an advantage over Wii. It is the media server feature that gives PS3 and 360 and advantage over the Wii. heretrix

Wrong. If those things mean nothing to a person or most people then there is no advantage at all. In fact, it may turn out to be a disadvantage if it makes something cost more.

See the PS3.And the 360 to a certain extent. Their extra features mean nothing when the Wii is selling double sometimes triple what they do in a month.

:lol: He points to the Wii to tel me how gamers are. :lol: No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. Great point.PoppaGamer

It is HD that gives 360 and PS3 the advantage over Wii. It is online gaming that gives PS3 and 360 an advantage over Wii. It is the media server feature that gives PS3 and 360 and advantage over the Wii. PoppaGamer

Wrong. If those things mean nothing to a person or most people then there is no advantage at all. In fact, it may turn out to be a disadvantage if it makes something cost more.

See the PS3.And the 360 to a certain extent. Their extra features mean nothing when the Wii is selling double sometimes triple what they do in a month.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"]:lol: He points to the Wii to tel me how gamers are. :lol: No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. Great point.Eddie5vs1

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] It is HD that gives 360 and PS3 the advantage over Wii. It is online gaming that gives PS3 and 360 an advantage over Wii. It is the media server feature that gives PS3 and 360 and advantage over the Wii. PoppaGamer

Wrong. If those things mean nothing to a person or most people then there is no advantage at all. In fact, it may turn out to be a disadvantage if it makes something cost more.

See the PS3.And the 360 to a certain extent. Their extra features mean nothing when the Wii is selling double sometimes triple what they do in a month.

"No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. "

This is your rebuttal? Are you serious? Who give a crap about who's a real gamer or not? That only matters to people on message boards who need hardware specs to inflate their ego.

REALITY: THE Wii is destroying everybody. It does not matter who YOU consider to be a "real gamer" or not. These people are playing games also. It doesn't matter if you feel the games are crap or not ignoring the reality of the situation isn't going to change anything.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"]

:lol: Read my above post. POINT TO WII. You only make my point. Tell me Wii is everything a gamer needs. Then tell me all you own is a Wii and care nothing about 360 or PS3.Eddie5vs1

I love it when a thread creator laughs at and dismisses any information that doesn't support their own point of view. TC, who are you to decide what a gamer is and what consoles a gamer should own? Different strokes for different folks.

"No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. "

This is your rebuttal? Are you serious? Who give a crap about who's a real gamer or not? That only matters to people on message boards who need hardware specs to inflate their ego.

REALITY: THE Wii is destroying everybody. It does not matter who YOU consider to be a "real gamer" or not. These people are playing games also. It doesn't matter if you feel the games are crap or not ignoring the reality of the situation isn't going to change anything.

heretrix

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"]:lol: He points to the Wii to tel me how gamers are. :lol: No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. Great point.PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

"No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. "

This is your rebuttal? Are you serious? Who give a crap about who's a real gamer or not? That only matters to people on message boards who need hardware specs to inflate their ego.

REALITY: THE Wii is destroying everybody. It does not matter who YOU consider to be a "real gamer" or not. These people are playing games also. It doesn't matter if you feel the games are crap or not ignoring the reality of the situation isn't going to change anything.

PoppaGamer

Having an "advantage" means nothing if it is ineffective. It's just dead weight.

As for this: "if that thought wins out we are all screwed"

There wiill always be a place for the so called "Real" or "Hardcore" gamer. It's really silly to be worried about that. High end gaming is here to stay. It just that the market has expanded. People need to get used to that and stop with all of the doom and gloom nonsense.Neither Sony nor Microsoft are going to make a less powerful console next gen. That would be incredibly stupid. What might happen is that this gen may last longer than the previous ones, which really isn't a bad thing. There is no way the PS4 or the next Xbox is going to be less powerful than the current consoles.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"] :roll: Really? I'm not saying I'm not disappointed in the amount of shovelware on the Wii, but come on. HD gaming, Super Mario Galaxy won GOTY. So apparently SD games can be good. Smooth running graphics? Sorry, I don't remember seeing any slowdown in my Wii games. Surround sound, yes I wished it supported 5.1, but not supporting it doesn't make the console horrible. Good controls? Some controls are great, others are gimmicky. It's not the console, it's the developers. Eddie5vs1

"No Timmy, grandma, and mommy don't care about HD, smooth running graphics, surround sound, good controls, and most everything that REAL gamers care about when they insert their favorite title. "

This is your rebuttal? Are you serious? Who give a crap about who's a real gamer or not? That only matters to people on message boards who need hardware specs to inflate their ego.

REALITY: THE Wii is destroying everybody. It does not matter who YOU consider to be a "real gamer" or not. These people are playing games also. It doesn't matter if you feel the games are crap or not ignoring the reality of the situation isn't going to change anything.

Having an "advantage" means nothing if it is ineffective. It's just dead weight.

As for this: "if that thought wins out we are all screwed"

There wiill always be a place for the so called "Real" or "Hardcore" gamer. It's really silly to be worried about that. High end gaming is here to stay. It just that the market has expanded. People need to get used to that and stop with all of the doom and gloom nonsense.Neither Sony nor Microsoft are going to make a less powerful console next gen. That would be incredibly stupid. What might happen is that this gen may last longer than the previous ones, which really isn't a bad thing. There is no way the PS4 or the next Xbox is going to be less powerful than the current consoles.

You and others here have contended that every feature above what the Wii and 360 arcade models provide are not a necessity. Yet, for you that isn't the case. And for most gamers like us, that isn't the case. And that's who this whole topic is aimed at. People on these forums, people who game as their main source for entertainment. People who want to claim that a 360 arcade is good enough for us. That none of us would spend another dollar after the initial $200 spent on the arcade. The reason I made the topic was due to the backlash, again, of the prices being brokendown for them and how after just adding a HDD, and two years of XBL you are nearing the PS3 $400 price tag. Popel started talking like that stuff isn't needed. Yet, most all of us here us those features and need that hardware. Get it? Maybe I should have used different terms at the start. In fact, I know I should have.PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] And, AGAIN, if that thought wins out we are all screwed. Telling me ALL consoles should simply keep it scaled down and cheap to suite the casuals is horrible. We wouldn't have a lot of what we enjoy this gen if that was the case. By your definition, most "gamers" don't care about online multiplayer. So, do you hope that next gen all manufacturers skip that feature to keep the consoles cheap? I sure as heck hope not. Once again. If you want what sells to define what we will see next, we are all screwed.PoppaGamer

Having an "advantage" means nothing if it is ineffective. It's just dead weight.

As for this: "if that thought wins out we are all screwed"

There wiill always be a place for the so called "Real" or "Hardcore" gamer. It's really silly to be worried about that. High end gaming is here to stay. It just that the market has expanded. People need to get used to that and stop with all of the doom and gloom nonsense.Neither Sony nor Microsoft are going to make a less powerful console next gen. That would be incredibly stupid. What might happen is that this gen may last longer than the previous ones, which really isn't a bad thing. There is no way the PS4 or the next Xbox is going to be less powerful than the current consoles.

Ahh, these price point and sales threads and posts are hilarious. It seems most of the posters here forgot about reality.

Example: The ficticious gamer

So, if you listen to 360 supporters, there are droves of gamers who want an HD gaming console but don't want to game online, won't ever need to take their console a normal cable's length away from their modem/router, and could care less about watching HD movies (unless its on the super sweet NetFlix, :lol:)

I contend that this type of buyer is in the minority. I think that anyone who really owns a HDTV sees the big benefit in HD resolutions. Especially when you consider most SD TV looks horrible on HDTV's. In fact, most HDTV owners become HD-snobs and reduce the amount of channels they watch just to stick with HD quality. This also means that they do have an interest in blu-ray movies. Not saying it would always be a large interest but enough to give the blu-ray feature some worth.

But some will say, "Most don't care about HD that much. It doesn't even look that different." Then why buy a HD console?

I also find it outlanduish that 360 supports suggest that there are droves of gamers out there not interested in online gaming. Sure, little Timmy and little Sarah might care less about playing online. But any REAL gamer sees the extra value and endless hours of play with online gaming. Not to mention, one of 360's touted advantages over the PS3 is the online play.

Then they want to pretend that most people live in a one room apartment. That people never need to move their console far enough away from their modem/router to need wifi. And this is a great thought if everyone on this planet was 18-22 years old.

"What's your figgin point," you ask.

My point is, most of the people who have bought or will buy the cheaper 360 models will end up spending more money than the initial point of sale. And by looking at some of the biggest, most popular items to buy for 360 you can see it doesn't take long to spend a hundred. Oh, we can inhale some Kameo dust and make ourselves believe that a REAL gamer would be happy with a arcade model. But the reality is, in the long run, that person will get less bang-for-the-buck.

Think about it people. You looked at PS2 last gen and said, "Great its selling well, but it is the inferior product because you get more with the Xbox." And you were right. Why? Because Xbox gave you the best value for your money.

Isn't that what we want as REAL gamers? Don't we want these companies to make us consoles that will give us the best value and experience? Or do we want the consoles to tailor to the casuals and just sell well?

** Before any of you try to be smart and say, "Says the PS3 supporter while Sony's in third place." I will stick with this opinion no matter where PS3 ends up. Whether PS3 comes in 1, 2, or 3, I believe it gives and will always give the best for your money. You will see this demonstrated this spring when Sony drops the price on a PS3 model that will STILL have blu-ray, HDD, and wireless ALL INCLUDED.

If HD was so important then no one would buy a console. I mean 720p is sub hd and thats what most games run in.

And that makes my point. They do all of that extra hard work for gamers like us. Yet, manby of uis here act as if the extra features are worthless. That any of us would be happy with just a WIi or an arcade. When that is completely false. When it comes down to it here in SW, I think we all debate about what is for the greater good for OUR gaming. I don't think any of us get real excited to see something that is totally dumbed down for casuals. Yet, when it comes to price debates everyone forgets that and starts pointing at casual spending habits as proof of what is or what isn't needed for our type of gamer.PoppaGamer

I think your problem is that you can't see that value is inherently subjective.

Blu-ray and WIFI are extra features worthless to me. I even consider the 360's DVD drive and PC sycing worthless seeing as how I have a laptop inches away.

I bought my game system to play games, nothing more.

Still, I'm sure other posters have different opinions - hence why value is subjective.

Okay, my point is this: * Is two years of XBL required to play current gen games? No. * Is an HDD drive required to play current gen games? No. Thus they are NOT NEEDED to play current gen games. Sure I could buy a Ferrari instead of my Xterra, but is it needed to go to the store? No. Would it be nice to have, of course. That is my point. If someone wishes to play current generation games, they need only buy the Xbox 360 Arcade. In fact, you could get an Arcade and THREE extra games for the same price as a PS3. That's a fact.Eddie5vs1

You keep saying in every reply "And that makes my point" when it actually doesn't. How does any of what you said change the fact that having a so called advantage is useless if most people don't care? heretrix

"Most" people as you say it isn't us!!! Great, a casual gamer doesn't care about HD, or great sound, or even if the game runs that great. Whose saying that isn't so?

My point is about US!!! People who play games for the main source of entertainment. (Crap, how many times do I have to type that before people actually retain it?) Yes, there are legions of casuals out there that like gaming in its simplest form. But the rest of us, those of us who call ourselves gamers, those of us that come to a forum like this and read article after article about games, DO care about those features.

If someone wants to simply talk about sales and how sales are achieved, yes, cheaper, more simple hardware is better. But that isn't even close to what I am talking about.

I am talking about US!! (getting it yet?) I am talking about someone who calls themself a gamer trying to tell me that buying an arcade model for the 360 makes sense to their type of gamer. Its a joke. And the worst part about it is EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. Yet, they want to pretend they didn't spend the exact same money they are saying no one would spend. I say it again, they pretend they didn't spend the exact same money they are saying no one would spend.

They tell us that online isn't needed, yet they pay for live and use it often. They tell us HDD isn't needed, yet they have one and use it often. See what i am getting at?

I'm not trying to piss you all off. I just like a good debate. (Eddie, shouldn't have made the Kameo comment but it was intended as humor and not hateful or angry)

I think it is indeed factual that PS3 gives you the most for your money if you are a REAL, hardcore, adult, longtime playing, tech savvy, in love with gaming, or whatever you want to call it gamer. Pointing to poeple that don't fit that description doesn't counter that point. It only reinforces it.

( I never brought the PC into the discussion, Spruce, because this is a console dicussion. No where was PC mentioned in my topic)

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] And that makes my point. They do all of that extra hard work for gamers like us. Yet, manby of uis here act as if the extra features are worthless. That any of us would be happy with just a WIi or an arcade. When that is completely false. When it comes down to it here in SW, I think we all debate about what is for the greater good for OUR gaming. I don't think any of us get real excited to see something that is totally dumbed down for casuals. Yet, when it comes to price debates everyone forgets that and starts pointing at casual spending habits as proof of what is or what isn't needed for our type of gamer.Kickinurass

I think your problem is that you can't see that value is inherently subjective.

Blu-ray and WIFI are extra features worthless to me. I even consider the 360's DVD drive and PC sycing worthless seeing as how I have a laptop inches away.

I bought my game system to play games, nothing more.

Still, I'm sure other posters have different opinions - hence why value is subjective.

I have a Quad core PC that I built myself, a 360 and a PS3 and I don't consider myself any more of a true, real or hardcore gamer than anyone else. What I do consider myself is a gaming enthusiast. Gaming is my hobby, but I don't consider anyone who doesn't have the setup that I have any less of a gamer than I am.

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] And that makes my point. They do all of that extra hard work for gamers like us. Yet, manby of uis here act as if the extra features are worthless. That any of us would be happy with just a WIi or an arcade. When that is completely false. When it comes down to it here in SW, I think we all debate about what is for the greater good for OUR gaming. I don't think any of us get real excited to see something that is totally dumbed down for casuals. Yet, when it comes to price debates everyone forgets that and starts pointing at casual spending habits as proof of what is or what isn't needed for our type of gamer.Kickinurass

I think your problem is that you can't see that value is inherently subjective.

Blu-ray and WIFI are extra features worthless to me. I even consider the 360's DVD drive and PC sycing worthless seeing as how I have a laptop inches away.

I bought my game system to play games, nothing more.

Still, I'm sure other posters have different opinions - hence why value is subjective.

And that makes my point. They do all of that extra hard work for gamers like us. Yet, manby of uis here act as if the extra features are worthless. That any of us would be happy with just a WIi or an arcade. When that is completely false. When it comes down to it here in SW, I think we all debate about what is for the greater good for OUR gaming. I don't think any of us get real excited to see something that is totally dumbed down for casuals. Yet, when it comes to price debates everyone forgets that and starts pointing at casual spending habits as proof of what is or what isn't needed for our type of gamer.PoppaGamer

I think your problem is that you can't see that value is inherently subjective.

Blu-ray and WIFI are extra features worthless to me. I even consider the 360's DVD drive and PC sycing worthless seeing as how I have a laptop inches away.

I bought my game system to play games, nothing more.

Still, I'm sure other posters have different opinions - hence why value is subjective.

I have a Quad core PC that I built myself, a 360 and a PS3 and I don't consider myself any more of a true, real or hardcore gamer than anyone else. What I do consider myself is a gaming enthusiast. Gaming is my hobby, but I don't consider anyone who doesn't have the setup that I have any less of a gamer than I am.

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"] And that makes my point. They do all of that extra hard work for gamers like us. Yet, manby of uis here act as if the extra features are worthless. That any of us would be happy with just a WIi or an arcade. When that is completely false. When it comes down to it here in SW, I think we all debate about what is for the greater good for OUR gaming. I don't think any of us get real excited to see something that is totally dumbed down for casuals. Yet, when it comes to price debates everyone forgets that and starts pointing at casual spending habits as proof of what is or what isn't needed for our type of gamer.PoppaGamer

I think your problem is that you can't see that value is inherently subjective.

Blu-ray and WIFI are extra features worthless to me. I even consider the 360's DVD drive and PC sycing worthless seeing as how I have a laptop inches away.

I bought my game system to play games, nothing more.

Still, I'm sure other posters have different opinions - hence why value is subjective.

Yes, using a wired connection. As I have for years - my previous setup consisted of running a 50 ft cord through my living room, kitchen, up a flight of stairs and halfway down a small hallway to avoid paying for WIFI.

And that makes my point. They do all of that extra hard work for gamers like us. Yet, manby of uis here act as if the extra features are worthless. That any of us would be happy with just a WIi or an arcade. When that is completely false. When it comes down to it here in SW, I think we all debate about what is for the greater good for OUR gaming. I don't think any of us get real excited to see something that is totally dumbed down for casuals. Yet, when it comes to price debates everyone forgets that and starts pointing at casual spending habits as proof of what is or what isn't needed for our type of gamer.PoppaGamer

I think your problem is that you can't see that value is inherently subjective.

Blu-ray and WIFI are extra features worthless to me. I even consider the 360's DVD drive and PC sycing worthless seeing as how I have a laptop inches away.

I bought my game system to play games, nothing more.

Still, I'm sure other posters have different opinions - hence why value is subjective.

Yes, using a wired connection. As I have for years - my previous setup consisted of running a 50 ft cord through my living room, kitchen, up a flight of stairs and halfway down a small hallway to avoid paying for WIFI.

Kickinurass

How much have you spent on Live since you bought your 360?

Yes, using a wired connection. As I have for years - my previous setup consisted of running a 50 ft cord through my living room, kitchen, up a flight of stairs and halfway down a small hallway to avoid paying for WIFI.

How much have you spent on Live since you bought your 360?

PoppaGamer, you keep pointing out that other people don't get what you're saying, and yet you continue to not understand that Kickinurass is right, value is subjective. If I didn't have an HDTV, neither BD capability or HD ability would mean anything to me. Eddie5vs1

Yes, someone without a HDTV wouldn't care about HD or BD. But now tell me (with honesty) that this same person in your example buys a 360 and never pays for Live. Tell me they never get a HDD. How realistic is that?

That is what i am saying. There are quite a few BIG features left out of the arcade model. It isn't just HD, it isn't just online, it isn't just a HDD. Those features are great enough to say that MOST gamers couldn't pass them all up. Again, most of you contend that a gamer like us buys an arcade model and never needs to spend another dime. And I think that is BS.

Yes, using a wired connection. As I have for years - my previous setup consisted of running a 50 ft cord through my living room, kitchen, up a flight of stairs and halfway down a small hallway to avoid paying for WIFI.

How much have you spent on Live since you bought your 360?

So basically what you're saying is the PS3 is a blu-ray player and that's why you should get the PS3 since the 360 is perfectly capable of outputting HD in games.

Also you do realize that they make super suoer long ethernet cables right? So there is really no need to have your console 'right next' to the router. You could also go on ebay and purchase a second wireless router that you could then hook up to the 360 and set up a network between that wireless router and your second one for less than the wireless adapter costs for the 360.

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

Yes, using a wired connection. As I have for years - my previous setup consisted of running a 50 ft cord through my living room, kitchen, up a flight of stairs and halfway down a small hallway to avoid paying for WIFI.

PoppaGamer

How much have you spent on Live since you bought your 360?

$50 dollars so far, paying from my little brothers account. On my current Xbox, I'm still working off the free 1 month trial, with an additional card held in reserve.

But I"m going to assume you're going to say that that amount of years that I play LIVE will eventually make my console cost more than the PS3. So to stop you from going down that road, to which I reply Xbox LIVE is of more value to me because it allows me an my younger brother to play together despite my being at college. If my brother was interested in owning a PS3, I would gladly go out and buy one, but he isn't.

I like Heretix's terminology - I'm a gaming enthusiast. I come here to Gamespot to waste time and enjoy playing video games with my brother. I've paid for his LIVE membership renewal and several games, and then came to college a few days ago about bought an Xbox 360 Pro because I wanted to game with him. Again, value is subjective and no argument can change that. For me, gaming with my family is easily worth $50 a year.

Edit: Also, the point about the Arcade model. I was actually in line with te Arcade model, when I realized I'd have to wait for the 20 gig harddrive. The Arcade model would actually have satisfied all my gaming needs - I merely opted for the 60 Gig so I could more quickly get online and play L4D with my brother. Speaking of which, he just logged on, so I'm outta here.

Great, you don't have wifi.

How much have you spent on Live since you bought your 360?

PoppaGamer

[QUOTE="PoppaGamer"][QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"] What does it matter? Comparing PSN and XBL, I think XBL is worht the money, but in PSN current state I would not be willing to pay for it. Again, value is subjective. Eddie5vs1

Not sure you ever had a clue of what I've been talking about.

We can sit and debate about which online service is better. But first we need to get past this part where you still don't get the point of the thread although it has been repeated to you numorous times.

There are many here, including you based on your posts in this topic, that want to say that gamers like us would and should be comepletely satisfied with a Wii or an arecade model right out of the box and nothing more. Not both, just one. And I contend that, that is completely false.

I was making the point to one of the other posters here that he could claim he spent no money on anything above what an arcade model provides except for Live. Live costs money. So, he couldn;t simply live with just having what the Arcade provided out of the box.

Are you with me? (not being sarcastic)

Indeed many out there love the Wii and Arcade for what they are. But I contend that those people are not made up of adult, male gamers like those found here in SW.

Yes, using a wired connection. As I have for years - my previous setup consisted of running a 50 ft cord through my living room, kitchen, up a flight of stairs and halfway down a small hallway to avoid paying for WIFI.

How much have you spent on Live since you bought your 360?

$50 dollars so far, paying from my little brothers account. On my current Xbox, I'm still working off the free 1 month trial, with an additional card held in reserve.

But I"m going to assume you're going to say that that amount of years that I play LIVE will eventually make my console cost more than the PS3. So to stop you from going down that road, to which I reply Xbox LIVE is of more value to me because it allows me an my younger brother to play together despite my being at college. If my brother was interested in owning a PS3, I would gladly go out and buy one, but he isn't.

I like Heretix's terminology - I'm a gaming enthusiast. I come here to Gamespot to waste time and enjoy playing video games with my brother. I've paid for his LIVE membership renewal and several games, and then came to college a few days ago about bought an Xbox 360 Pro because I wanted to game with him. Again, value is subjective and no argument can change that. For me, gaming with my family is easily worth $50 a year.

Edit: Also, the point about the Arcade model. I was actually in line with te Arcade model, when I realized I'd have to wait for the 20 gig harddrive. The Arcade model would actually have satisfied all my gaming needs - I merely opted for the 60 Gig so I could more quickly get online and play L4D with my brother. Speaking of which, he just logged on, so I'm outta here.

PoppaGamer, you should read Blackbond's post regarding this in another thread; I'm sure you've seen it. In that post, he details how the PS3 costs $57 more in electricity per year than the Xbox 360; this is with the newest and most energy efficient models. The average Xbox 360 gamer pays $50 per year for XBL, which in this argument, that extra cost is negated when you look at the total cost between the two consoles. With that mind, I would exclude that from the argument.Lance_Kalzas

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]720p is HD, (lowest form), but True HD.....1080p is FULL HD (Highest form) for HDTV's. Depending the size of your set, 720p looks as good as 1080p (hard to see a big difference)...if its a big TV, then there is a difference. Eyezonmii

'Full HD' is marketing speak, nothing more. It's not an offical moniker of any sort.

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"]PoppaGamer, you keep pointing out that other people don't get what you're saying, and yet you continue to not understand that Kickinurass is right, value is subjective. If I didn't have an HDTV, neither BD capability or HD ability would mean anything to me. PoppaGamer

Yes, someone without a HDTV wouldn't care about HD or BD. But now tell me (with honesty) that this same person in your example buys a 360 and never pays for Live. Tell me they never get a HDD. How realistic is that?

That is what i am saying. There are quite a few BIG features left out of the arcade model. It isn't just HD, it isn't just online, it isn't just a HDD. Those features are great enough to say that MOST gamers couldn't pass them all up. Again, most of you contend that a gamer like us buys an arcade model and never needs to spend another dime. And I think that is BS.

Let me see: I bought my 360 for €200,- with a 60GB harddrive (because I want to be able to download demos)

I don't use wifi and don't pay for live. (I am a single player gamer)

For my HD movies I use my PC since I use it as a media center.

What BIG features am I missing exactly here?