Why Bioware games getting lots of criticism lately?

Ahhhh Bioware bashing the time honored system wars tradition

You're full of shit. I don't believe you played any of those games. Is there a website you copy+pasted that off of, or did you remember all those memes yourself?

One of the best games i've ever played ...

@charizard1605: I liked dragon Age Inquisition. What are you saying ?

@isturbo1984: Don't believe me

*shrug*

Good for you, man.

@indzman: Mass Effect was good until the final 10 minutes, it was a sublime game. DA I was also a very good game

@Maroxad: I disagree on your view on Mass Effect. I can make so many linear games sound bad by criticising their linear gameplay. You're just exploiting it. Gears of War is also linear. I'm pretty sure I can use that to make it sound uninteresting.

Mass Effect IS a good game by it's genre and with no doubt. What shallow RPG elements are you talking about ??

@charizard1605:

i dont. you just basically shit talked an entire lineup of games with no basis. you literally just said the games were "shit." you dont have to come back with a quip if you arent going to provide a basis for your accusations to bioware's games. moderator or no moderator.

... I don't even know how to respond to this, how does DA:I come close to the above average RPG fighting system in Origins to to the MMO grind that is DA:I? The moronic teleporting NPC:s during combat is enough to throw it in the can.
The converstation wheel and very limited paths in storyline in DA:I doesn't even cut close to Origins either.

@isturbo1984: What does my being a moderator have to do with anything? You are acting as if I am unfairly flexing some moderator muscle or abusing my position. That is the last thing I am doing. I am sharing my opinion on these games.

Inquisition was plagued by trite quest design, and mind numbing repetition, with some awful combat thrown in to boot. The Old Republic was a theme parked MMORPG, essentially World of Warcraft with a Star Wars skin and a focus on the story (although I will admit to not having played this one in a while, and therefore being ignorant to what the game is now). Mass Effect 3 may have played well, but its story and resolution were unsatisfactory, and that is not just my opinion, the entire ending controversy for the game, which Bioware acknowledged and accepted when they released the Extended Cut, stand as a testament to that fact.

And not even the most rabid Bioware fan will actually defend the stinking pile of crap that was Dragon Age II.

So yes, the games were shit. They were shit, and they especially hurt because right before these, Bioware gave us their best games ever with Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2. The comedown from those to these games was dramatic, and the contrast between those games and these ones makes these games look even worse than they are.

Sorry, I don't care if you don't agree, but that's my opinion, and speaking as someone who was positively enamored by Origins and Mass Effect 2, I am going to stick to it, whether or not you choose to accept or even believe me.

@charizard1605:

maybe it was just the way you and the whole damn SW talks. every fucking thing out of your mouths here is blatant disrespect, name-calling and bashing.

but see...that is a lot better. you used "I" statements more, and really let me know it was your opinion. i legitimately thought you were lying your ass off and being an asshole and a troll. that is why I said "moderator or no." because i couldnt believe the words you were typing. but now i know otherwise. i still disagree with your opinion, but thats where we can leave it at just that.

@isturbo1984: Cool, glad we managed to clear that up :)

I'm actually one of those who still like Bioware (even though I've only played their games recently starting with ME Trilogy, then DAO, then KOTOR 1) despite putting their parent company on my boycott list (for products released since 2013 and onward). Kind of like how I still like Michel Ancel and his team despite Ubisoft's complete BS (so BS that I think it's better Rayman that SHOULDN'T be a playable character for Smash should he even be a consideration, but as Patrick Stump would sing "I digress").

Can't help thinking that if they drop trying to put MP into every game they release and focus on the SP campaign, they would be much better off.

Because every game they've made since Dragon Age Origins has been mediocre.

Mass Effect 2 was amazing, though I guess technically, it was mostly 'made' before Origins.

Nah, it had a shitty plot, bland level design and incredibly weak RPG elements.

@Ballroompirate: "You are full of shit"

Cant even provide a reason as to why. Lol.

@illmatic87: Or it gets a pass for simply put, being better executed. With Xenoblade: Chronicles, at least it felt like the developers had a vision.

They stopped being trend setters years ago. After Mass Effect to be specific. DA:I felt like a poor man's Skyrim in every way. Not a single thing felt fresh with that game.

Obsidian are trend followers, but I never complained about BioWare being trend followers. I complained about BioWare being trend followers who dont understand the trends they are following. Obsidian, does understand the trends they follow.

Cinematic games are cancer, cinematic RPGs, even more so, completely missing the point of the genre.

So you do admit that BioWare has problems with C&C. Do any of those choices actually affect gameplay though, quest availability. Too often they are just cosmetic. Compare this to the brilliant C&C heaven that is King of Dragon Pass or even the Hentai RPG Kichikuou Rance, where your success and failure relies entirely on C&C.

Multiple problems with the roleplaying system in Mass Effect.

• The dialogue wheel made it very difficult to tell what your character was going to say. Inaccurate paraphrasing made it even worse.
• Character skills lacked any serious impact on your options, both in and out of combat.
• The paragon/renegade system forced you to into either side, and if you wanted to sway you might get locked out of dialogue options because... reasons.
• Overly linear quests right up until the end where you might have a dialogue choice. See image below.
• Level scaling, made character progression meaningless.

And that is what it did wrong, here is what it didnt do.

• Any scenarios involving problem solving, multiple entries, multiple approaches.
• Ability to avoid most violence.
• Shepard has no real weaknesses aside from being unable to use some weapons.
• Emergent gameplay
• No character attributes.
• The ability to say no to certain proposals.
• C&C outside of paragon/renegade points (and the fate of 2 party membres).

Gears of War was rubbish too. The only thing I liked about that game was the active reloading system.

@Maroxad said:

@Ballroompirate: "You are full of shit"

Cant even provide a reason as to why. Lol.

@illmatic87: Or it gets a pass for simply put, being better executed. With Xenoblade: Chronicles, at least it felt like the developers had a vision.

@texasgoldrush said:

However, they are not trend followers, they are trend setters. yeah, they do follow some trends and that does lead them into trouble, see Dragon Age Inquisition, but they really for the most part follow their own formula, sometimes to a fault.

Obsidian is the trend followers. They ape Bioware games. There games are very much, Bioware style games outside of Fallout New Vegas, Dungeon Siege III, and South Park (which was more Matt and Trey and less basic Obsidian).

The dialogue wheel is here to stay, its actually works far better for cinematic RPGs and other companies have used them or a variation of it. The Witcher 3 runs off the Mass Effect dialogue system. And really, dialogue in the system really doesn't work written out. The Mass Effect system has several advantages over the old systems. Now Fallout 4 is using it....but Bethesda does not have the writing skill to pull it off and Fallout doesn't need it. So now Bethesda has taken from Bioware.

While Bioware does indeed have trouble with C&C....ME3 actually does a very good job in this area, more so with the Extended Cut. Its Witcher level of C&C, to the point where you do have to be careful of your choices. I rag on DAO, but there is a moment where a choice before did affect things later. The outcome of the Mage Tower storyline affects the fate of the Arl's son later.

They stopped being trend setters years ago. After Mass Effect to be specific. DA:I felt like a poor man's Skyrim in every way. Not a single thing felt fresh with that game.

Obsidian are trend followers, but I never complained about BioWare being trend followers. I complained about BioWare being trend followers who dont understand the trends they are following. Obsidian, does understand the trends they follow.

Cinematic games are cancer, cinematic RPGs, even more so, completely missing the point of the genre.

So you do admit that BioWare has problems with C&C. Do any of those choices actually affect gameplay though, quest availability. Too often they are just cosmetic. Compare this to the brilliant C&C heaven that is King of Dragon Pass or even the Hentai RPG Kichikuou Rance, where your success and failure relies entirely on C&C.

@acp_45 said:

@Maroxad: I disagree on your view on Mass Effect. I can make so many linear games sound bad by criticising their linear gameplay. You're just exploiting it. Gears of War is also linear. I'm pretty sure I can use that to make it sound uninteresting.

Mass Effect IS a good game by it's genre and with no doubt. What shallow RPG elements are you talking about ??

Multiple problems with the roleplaying system in Mass Effect.

• The dialogue wheel made it very difficult to tell what your character was going to say. Inaccurate paraphrasing made it even worse.
• Character skills lacked any serious impact on your options, both in and out of combat.
• The paragon/renegade system forced you to into either side, and if you wanted to sway you might get locked out of dialogue options because... reasons.
• Overly linear quests right up until the end where you might have a dialogue choice. See image below.
• Level scaling, made character progression meaningless.

And that is what it did wrong, here is what it didnt do.

• Any scenarios involving problem solving, multiple entries, multiple approaches.
• Ability to avoid most violence.
• Shepard has no real weaknesses aside from being unable to use some weapons.
• Emergent gameplay
• No character attributes.
• The ability to say no to certain proposals.
• C&C outside of paragon/renegade points (and the fate of 2 party membres).

Gears of War was rubbish too. The only thing I liked about that game was the active reloading system.

First off, DAI isn't really like Skyrim. Its actually just Bioware level design blown up. The problem with DAI is that they segregated the exploration from the storyline.

If Obsidian understood trends all the time, they would have not made Alpha Protocol. And really, they lack innovation, that's why they are not a top tier developer.

The Witcher 3 shows the triumph of cinematic RPGs.

Mass Effect 3 however, does have pretty good C&C, and it is much better than the first two games. Characters and Shepard himself will now remember what he said in the past. Some characters have hidden trust/approval systems which can play a role later. For example, how you treat Ashley or Kaiden matters. Delayed consequences abound with consequences from past games have an impact. Outcomes hold regardless of ending selected unless the bad endings occur which everyone dies. Outside those bad endings, the genophage arc for example, has SEVEN different ending outcomes, based on choices in all three games. ME3 also improved the paragon and renegade system where it is basically irrelevant, only factoring in one of the ending choices. Now Shepard can select what he wants without penalty. You have to EARN your speech checks through choice and consequence instead of having a good paragon or renegade score, and sometimes, speech checks and interrupts don't work.

@

Mass Effect 2 storywise is the weakest of the trilogy. It so badly needed its sequel to even give its story threads relevance and the main plot is one of Bioware's worst. It was actually very sloppy in places.

Bioware DID underwrite the ending for ME3, they fixed that, however, the idiocy of the detractors are also to blame for this controversy. The overall story is far better than ME2.

DAO is one of the most overrated RPGs ever made. Its not a high bar, its a pile of mediocrity and unoriginality.

i see no problem with bioware. i think they make good/great games. da2 is the worst game they have come out with in the last 10 years, then ill live with that.

its not like other companies havent had duds...even platinum had duds

Old Bioware = good to great games

EA Bioware = shitty to okay games

That said I'm going to try to keep an open mind about ME:A until I learn more about it. The DA franchise is dead to me.

So many homophobes.

Totally agree with this.

I don't get it either. I would much rather play a new Bioware release then most of the games that come out in a year. Even at their very worst, Bioware still makes good games that I enjoy.

Old Bioware had some shitty to mediocre games.....

Neverwinter Nights is terrible and Jade Empire is flawed in gameplay and writing.

Nostalgia is a stupid disease.

ME2 and ME3 are better than most old Bioware games except for Baldur's Gate II.

@Maroxad said:

@Ballroompirate: "You are full of shit"

Cant even provide a reason as to why. Lol.

@illmatic87: Or it gets a pass for simply put, being better executed. With Xenoblade: Chronicles, at least it felt like the developers had a vision.

@texasgoldrush said:

However, they are not trend followers, they are trend setters. yeah, they do follow some trends and that does lead them into trouble, see Dragon Age Inquisition, but they really for the most part follow their own formula, sometimes to a fault.

Obsidian is the trend followers. They ape Bioware games. There games are very much, Bioware style games outside of Fallout New Vegas, Dungeon Siege III, and South Park (which was more Matt and Trey and less basic Obsidian).

The dialogue wheel is here to stay, its actually works far better for cinematic RPGs and other companies have used them or a variation of it. The Witcher 3 runs off the Mass Effect dialogue system. And really, dialogue in the system really doesn't work written out. The Mass Effect system has several advantages over the old systems. Now Fallout 4 is using it....but Bethesda does not have the writing skill to pull it off and Fallout doesn't need it. So now Bethesda has taken from Bioware.

While Bioware does indeed have trouble with C&C....ME3 actually does a very good job in this area, more so with the Extended Cut. Its Witcher level of C&C, to the point where you do have to be careful of your choices. I rag on DAO, but there is a moment where a choice before did affect things later. The outcome of the Mage Tower storyline affects the fate of the Arl's son later.

They stopped being trend setters years ago. After Mass Effect to be specific. DA:I felt like a poor man's Skyrim in every way. Not a single thing felt fresh with that game.

Obsidian are trend followers, but I never complained about BioWare being trend followers. I complained about BioWare being trend followers who dont understand the trends they are following. Obsidian, does understand the trends they follow.

Cinematic games are cancer, cinematic RPGs, even more so, completely missing the point of the genre.

So you do admit that BioWare has problems with C&C. Do any of those choices actually affect gameplay though, quest availability. Too often they are just cosmetic. Compare this to the brilliant C&C heaven that is King of Dragon Pass or even the Hentai RPG Kichikuou Rance, where your success and failure relies entirely on C&C.

@acp_45 said:

@Maroxad: I disagree on your view on Mass Effect. I can make so many linear games sound bad by criticising their linear gameplay. You're just exploiting it. Gears of War is also linear. I'm pretty sure I can use that to make it sound uninteresting.

Mass Effect IS a good game by it's genre and with no doubt. What shallow RPG elements are you talking about ??

Multiple problems with the roleplaying system in Mass Effect.

• The dialogue wheel made it very difficult to tell what your character was going to say. Inaccurate paraphrasing made it even worse.
• Character skills lacked any serious impact on your options, both in and out of combat.
• The paragon/renegade system forced you to into either side, and if you wanted to sway you might get locked out of dialogue options because... reasons.
• Overly linear quests right up until the end where you might have a dialogue choice. See image below.
• Level scaling, made character progression meaningless.

And that is what it did wrong, here is what it didnt do.

• Any scenarios involving problem solving, multiple entries, multiple approaches.
• Ability to avoid most violence.
• Shepard has no real weaknesses aside from being unable to use some weapons.
• Emergent gameplay
• No character attributes.
• The ability to say no to certain proposals.
• C&C outside of paragon/renegade points (and the fate of 2 party membres).

Gears of War was rubbish too. The only thing I liked about that game was the active reloading system.

While you might be right on some of those points, I still think you are just trying to be critical without being realistic.

Mass effect released about +-5years ago. Clearly your expectations are too high.

"Dialogue wheel made it very difficult. Inaccurate paraphrasing" Do you really want them too put the entire dialogue on the dialogue wheel ? The screen would be cluttered. They obviously used more compressed phrases in the wheel than what was said by Shepard when the dialogue option was chosen. It was fine in my books. Instead of using the the dialogue choice of Fallout 3 or something similar to it where the protagonist doesn't have a voice and where the dialogue is kept on a simple level, Mass Effect went for a more character focused dialogue. The amount of words that would fit on the dialogue wheel can't be the same as the amount of words actually being said. This should make sense and therefore the "inaccurate" paraphrasing should be acceptable even if it left some ambiguities.

The Paragon/Renegade system wasn't intricate enough to make the decisions feel coherent with previous ones. To make the Paragon/Renegade system better would mean to overhaul everything about the games dialogue and decisions. I do agree with you on this matter. But yet again this was 5 years back. You shouldn't look at it the way you look at games today. Ideas grow and become better and later on more than one game uses it. It becomes more diverse. You aren't looking at Mass Effect with understanding. In what position it is compared to a recent game like The Witcher 3. They are in different stages of the genre.

I still think Mass Effect was amazing when it got released and it did something no other game did back then.

Because their games are terrible. Mass effect 2 and 3 are basically shitty gears of war clones pretending to be RPGs. Well at least I can say that Dragon Age Inquistion is an improvement over their previous games, that is not saying much thoughm it is still a mediocre game.

Because your average Gamespot user blindly hates everything with "EA" on the box and is scared of homosexuals.

@acp_45: Games like Fallout and Ultima 6 and 7 did those approximately 20 years ago. Deus Ex did it approximately 15 years ago.

As for the dialogue wheel, multiple choices never had to cover up the entire screen. The older dialogue tree was far superior, and if you go to pretty much any RPG fansite such as the RPGcodex, you will see that dialogue wheels are nearly universally reviled. In Mass Effect 1, what shepard said would sometimes outright contradict what was written in the dialogue wheel. It made roleplaying nearly impossible, and more often than not, I had to guess what my own character was going to say, and when you are going to guess what your character says, there are some fundamental problems to the roleplaying elements in the game.

All Mass Effect did was dumb down the RPG genre. It was not great for its time either, it was a step back for shooters and a leap backwards for RPGs.

I dont think The Sims or Skyrim ever got hate for allowing homosexuality or same sex marriage. And Fire Emblem: Fates allowing homosexuality was generally met with positive regards here. Problem is how BioWare is treating this topic in their games.

@Maroxad said:

@acp_45: Games like Fallout and Ultima 6 and 7 did those approximately 20 years ago. Deus Ex did it approximately 15 years ago.

As for the dialogue wheel, multiple choices never had to cover up the entire screen. The older dialogue tree was far superior, and if you go to pretty much any RPG fansite such as the RPGcodex, you will see that dialogue wheels are nearly universally reviled. In Mass Effect 1, what shepard said would sometimes outright contradict what was written in the dialogue wheel. It made roleplaying nearly impossible, and more often than not, I had to guess what my own character was going to say, and when you are going to guess what your character says, there are some fundamental problems to the roleplaying elements in the game.

All Mass Effect did was dumb down the RPG genre. It was not great for its time either, it was a step back for shooters and a leap backwards for RPGs.

@001011000101101 said:

Because your average Gamespot user blindly hates everything with "EA" on the box and is scared of homosexuals.

I dont think The Sims or Skyrim ever got hate for allowing homosexuality or same sex marriage. And Fire Emblem: Fates allowing homosexuality was generally met with positive regards here. Problem is how BioWare is treating this topic in their games.

Wrong

The Mass Effect dialogue system works because it allows conversations to be far more natural, free flowing, and less wooden. THAT'S why the game industry picked up on it.

You cannot really put what Shepard says in ME3, what Jansen says in Human Revolution, or what Geralt says in TW2 or TW3 into a list, Black Isle style. Its too natural of dialogue to be clear on the list format. Looking at the Planescape Torment dialogue choices from the player...its really wooden, unlike the characters speaking to the Nameless One. Games with Mass Effect style systems are far less wooden and the protagonist can even have dialogue as well written as the NPCs.

And no, the criticism of Bioware for its LGBT content is mostly stupid. For example, Cortez being gay in ME3 was not the point of the character. I do think Dorian's content was heavy handed in DAI, but the game had problem developing its characters outside Cassandra and the advisors.

DA:Origins was the last good rpg from bioware. DA:I game UI and controls at launch were atrocious for PC.

So you are willing to sacrifice playability for presentation. Even then, the dialogue wheel doesnt add much to the conversations presentation either, especially the awkward silences and terrible facial animations. Honestly I found the dialogue in PS:T to be far more immersive than the one in Mass Effect.

Are you saying that Anders was not terribly treated, that may be the worst implementation of said topic I have seen in any game.

I'm pretty much in the middle on this one. I don't hate Bioware but their last few games have been average. Dragon Age II was rushed out in linear but I did actually like it as a simple action RPG. Mass Effect 3 had several issues, many involving plot and a lackluster, but again I liked the game. I was enjoying Dragon Age: Inquisition at first but I ended up getting bored with it and still haven't gone back after 8 months or so.

Like others have said, the move to EA hasn't helped and they have had some controversy surrounding some of their releases which will also sting. Having said that people still get excited for their releases so as long as their products are good for the most part, they will continue to sell.

@Maroxad said:

@acp_45: Games like Fallout and Ultima 6 and 7 did those approximately 20 years ago. Deus Ex did it approximately 15 years ago.

As for the dialogue wheel, multiple choices never had to cover up the entire screen. The older dialogue tree was far superior, and if you go to pretty much any RPG fansite such as the RPGcodex, you will see that dialogue wheels are nearly universally reviled. In Mass Effect 1, what shepard said would sometimes outright contradict what was written in the dialogue wheel. It made roleplaying nearly impossible, and more often than not, I had to guess what my own character was going to say, and when you are going to guess what your character says, there are some fundamental problems to the roleplaying elements in the game.

All Mass Effect did was dumb down the RPG genre. It was not great for its time either, it was a step back for shooters and a leap backwards for RPGs.

@001011000101101 said:

Because your average Gamespot user blindly hates everything with "EA" on the box and is scared of homosexuals.

I dont think The Sims or Skyrim ever got hate for allowing homosexuality or same sex marriage. And Fire Emblem: Fates allowing homosexuality was generally met with positive regards here. Problem is how BioWare is treating this topic in their games.

I don't get it..

You are clearing so many things of the table by saying Ultima and Fallout did that 20 years ago. You are basically answering my question "Do you want a cluttered screen ?" with a "Yes". Why are you even referring to the old RPG's ?

I can't remember any full-fledged contradictions in the dialogue wheel. Can you maybe give me an example of where it happened ? I haven't played it in years.

Go take a look at the shooters when Mass Effect came out.....you'll see that it didn't try anything new but rather merge in with common 3rd person shooter mechanics. They weren't bad and they weren't supposed to be innovative. They made part of a game with content that worked well together. It didn't have to outshine other games in the shooter genre. It just had to overcome the standard of what's to be expected from a 3rd person shooter since it wasn't entirely focused on being a shooter. Resources were more spread out compared to a pure shooter because it's an RPG we are talking about. There was NO STEP BACK FOR SHOOTERS.

@Maroxad: You want to know why you're full of shit and blatantly pulling shit out of your ass, lets go down the list of stupid shit you have said.

"Mass Effect: A decent universe BioWare built. But the RPG elements are way too shallow to satisfy any cRPG fan and the gunplay was far inferior to the likes of Gears of War. Enemies lacked variety overall, quests were uninspired, planets might as well have been done through procedural generation and sidequest interiors were blatantly copy paste."

First off ME is not a CRPG, nor is it designed to appeal to CRPG fans so I have no idea why you even mentioned that besides trying to look like a fool. Oh and I love this "Enemies lacked variety overall, quests were uninspired, planets might as well have been done through procedural generation and sidequest interiors were blatantly copy paste." Oh look you basically described Gears.

"Mass Effect 2: Cover based shooting, repetitive gameplay devoid of depth and challenge"

Oh god the derp is strong with you, "repetitive gameplay devoid of depth and challenge" for it's time getting ALL team members to survive the suicide mission was a pain in the ass. You know what the best thing ME does over Gears, your team feels like it's a team unlike gears which was probably the worst "bro" team up ever and this is coming from someone who loved Baird. ME made me care for my team unlike Geow, hell I gave 0 ***** on what happened to Dom in Geow 2 and 3.

"Mass Effect 3: Shoot, new room, shoot, new room, rinse repeat. The thing about the game's ending is that it woke up some people to show just how inconsequent BioWare's C&C really are. Side quests usually bogged down to a Single Player Invasion mode (Horde mode if you are familiar with that)."

"Mass Effect 3: Shoot, new room, shoot, new room, rinse repeat"

DA **** DID I JUST READ!? how can you get any dumber?, oh shit you just described 100% of other shooters, I literally feel dumber reading the dumbest thing ever posted on here.

"SWTOR: Ability delay at launch, bad writing for 87.5% of all classes, a world that felt more sterile than a fallout. All trade skills were useless save for BioChemistry, skills that often were copy paste from WoW. An unusually familiar talent tree"

For starters slicing is actually on par with Bio if not better than Bio, hell Bio is barely a top 3 crewskill now. If you think the writing in Swtor is bad....lol it's leagues better than "time traveling alternate reality", "Green jesus", "Lets fight a bad ass thunderlord that you've never heard about tell now" and all of that other crap WoW has tried to write since Wotlk. As for copying skills, outside of a charge (aka a ability to get to a person) I can literally think of 0 other abilities Swtor has that WoW has, maybe chain lightning but how many RPG's have had chain lighting in a spell classes arsenal?. Also Swtor hasn't had talent trees since what....like 2013, so outside of barren planets (which is actually the only actual correct thing you've said in your whole stupid post) everything is a blatant bull**** excuse on trying to show your hate for Bioware, so congrats on looking like a tool.

Neither the screens in Fallout or Ultima 7 were cluttered. Nor were the UIs in Ultima 7 or Fallout.

Maybe not contradictions, but sometimes what shepard said did not match the paraphrased text at all.

The gunplay lacked impact in Mass Effect. Especially compared to the likes of Gears of War. The enemy variety was also far inferior.

Regarding Mass Effect 1.

Perhaps if you had any reading comprehension skills whatsoever. You would realize that I was saying that the game would appeal to neither fans of action games nor cRPGs, in other words, the game doesnt excell in any category. Also regarding the gears of war stuff. Did you not read the part where I said Gears of War was absolute shit too? Not to mention, you threw a red herring. Sorry but commiting logical fallacies and then attempt to insult my intelligence just makes you look dumber than you already do.

Regarding Mass Effect 2.

I had no issues keeping everyone alive whatsoever. Stop posting your own opinions, pretending they are facts, when they are in fact not. Some people simply put dont suck at gaming.

Regarding Mass Effect 3

You clearly have not played any tactical shooters at all. Going by that comment. As for non tactical shooters, most other shooters tend to spice it up better through more varied encounters, and did so far better than Mass Effect 3.

Regarding SWTOR,

Should have stated that was when I played. Biochemistry and perhaps cybernetics were the only skills worth a damn. Whats with these red herrings you throw around? What does WoW's Chris Metzen have to do with this. Not denying WoW's writing is bad, but on the bright side, it isnt shoved down your throat like what SWTOR tried to do. Between all the deathgrips, shields, and goodness know how many other spells, which were copied almost exactly from cooldown to durationm, heck I remember there being a comic, similar spells are fine, but when the skill is nearly mechanically identical, there are issues. Maybe I should have stated at launch. Because at Launch, SWTOR was a flat out terrible game. I dont know how it is now, but quite frankly, I have heard that the expansion packs have been generally forgettable.

If it needs to be sacrificed, then yeah. More playability isn't always better, and sometimes it can lead to the game clashing with its story. For example, in Deus Ex HR would the protagonist kill police officers and in Red Dead Redemption, would Marston go on a killing spree?

Anders was not terribly treated. Fans just did not like that he went from a likable Bioware expy to an unlikable antihero who annoyed everyone. And in DA2, all romances are bisexual, he treats a female Hawke just the same as a male one.

Ultima VII had the worst inventory system ever in the history of RPGs.

Does the dialogue have to match the paraphrased text? It does not. Some similar dialogue systems don't even use paraphrased text. Mass Effects text is about intent, not summary. The Witcher 3 is the same way.

Mass Effect 1 had to the problem of trying of doing two things at once, which is why they ditched the clunky dice roll system in their combat. I guess Obsidian did not realize the criticism ME1's combat got when they made an even more dreadful Alpha Protocol.

Most people do not keep everybody alive in ME2, so what goes for you and me doesn't go for the majority.

ME3 has far better combat encounters than most shooters, but I guess you haven't played ME3. Each combat scenario is different. Popping and shooting doesn't work well in ME3 as it did in ME2.

And SWTOR is mostly well written, and better than most Star Wars stories. And it handles morality BETTER than KOTOR 2, which liked to talk about it but not let you play a part.

No, just no. While gameplay shouldnt conflict with story, but presentation should never take precedence over gameplay. Its this kind of mentality that has brought us so much shit over the past few years. Gameplay triumphs story in gaming. Video game stories are nearly universally shit. And yes, that includes BioWare and Obsidian stuff. Either way, dialogue trees do not detract from story, whereas Dialogue wheels do detract from gameplay. Not to mention the need for full voice overs for hte dialogue wheel to work. Full voice overs, are great in theory, but in practice they are not ideal for RPGs. Chris Avellone explained why quite well,

"My best example of voice inflexibility is just about any game I've worked on that was fully VO'd. Whether Alpha Protocol or [Knights of the Old Republic 2], the recording and localization must be done much earlier than the end product. If a quest is edited, changed, a character dropped, a mission removed, an error found, then you spend a lot of time editing lines and trying to work with the story cohesion."

And that was just one of the many problems full voice overs brought to the table.

As for anders, do you even remember how that was implemented? It was terrible. This comic explains it well, avoid romance and face consequences. Whether they are bisexual or not doesnt change anything. The fact is, Male characters had that romance pushed on them.

Did it, I remember the Ultima 7 system get a lot of praise for being immersive. While not arbitarily restricting you of information, like the Dialogue wheel.

It doesnt have to match it word for word, but when what shepard says does not represent what actually happened, one can get pissed. If you are going to paraphrase it, paraphrase it. I shouldnt have to guess what my character does in a dialogue system. I strictly remember trying to arrest someone in Mass Effect and Shepard shot him in the head.

I played Mass Effect 3 to some extent. It was subpar compared to proper shooters. While it may have been less whac-a-mole, it still didnt change the fact that from what I did, my 1 strategy worked for nearly every encounter.

SWTOR was not well written. Unless you have terrible standards. Here is just some random video I found looking for an example of SWTOR's "writing"

Well I'll be honestandsay I've only completed one Bioware game: KOTOR. I loved KOTOR because it's Star Wars. However, the battle system was meh and outside the great plot twist, the rest of the story was mediocre.

HK-47 was awesome.

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

If it needs to be sacrificed, then yeah. More playability isn't always better, and sometimes it can lead to the game clashing with its story. For example, in Deus Ex HR would the protagonist kill police officers and in Red Dead Redemption, would Marston go on a killing spree?

Anders was not terribly treated. Fans just did not like that he went from a likable Bioware expy to an unlikable antihero who annoyed everyone. And in DA2, all romances are bisexual, he treats a female Hawke just the same as a male one.

No, just no. While gameplay shouldnt conflict with story, but presentation should never take precedence over gameplay. Its this kind of mentality that has brought us so much shit over the past few years. Gameplay triumphs story in gaming. Video game stories are nearly universally shit. And yes, that includes BioWare and Obsidian stuff. Either way, dialogue trees do not detract from story, whereas Dialogue wheels do detract from gameplay. Not to mention the need for full voice overs for hte dialogue wheel to work. Full voice overs, are great in theory, but in practice they are not ideal for RPGs. Chris Avellone explained why quite well,

"My best example of voice inflexibility is just about any game I've worked on that was fully VO'd. Whether Alpha Protocol or [Knights of the Old Republic 2], the recording and localization must be done much earlier than the end product. If a quest is edited, changed, a character dropped, a mission removed, an error found, then you spend a lot of time editing lines and trying to work with the story cohesion."

And that was just one of the many problems full voice overs brought to the table.

As for anders, do you even remember how that was implemented? It was terrible. This comic explains it well, avoid romance and face consequences. Whether they are bisexual or not doesnt change anything. The fact is, Male characters had that romance pushed on them.

@texasgoldrush said:

Ultima VII had the worst inventory system ever in the history of RPGs.

Does the dialogue have to match the paraphrased text? It does not. Some similar dialogue systems don't even use paraphrased text. Mass Effects text is about intent, not summary. The Witcher 3 is the same way.

Mass Effect 1 had to the problem of trying of doing two things at once, which is why they ditched the clunky dice roll system in their combat. I guess Obsidian did not realize the criticism ME1's combat got when they made an even more dreadful Alpha Protocol.

Most people do not keep everybody alive in ME2, so what goes for you and me doesn't go for the majority.

ME3 has far better combat encounters than most shooters, but I guess you haven't played ME3. Each combat scenario is different. Popping and shooting doesn't work well in ME3 as it did in ME2.

And SWTOR is mostly well written, and better than most Star Wars stories. And it handles morality BETTER than KOTOR 2, which liked to talk about it but not let you play a part.

Did it, I remember the Ultima 7 system get a lot of praise for being immersive. While not arbitarily restricting you of information, like the Dialogue wheel.

It doesnt have to match it word for word, but when what shepard says does not represent what actually happened, one can get pissed. If you are going to paraphrase it, paraphrase it. I shouldnt have to guess what my character does in a dialogue system. I strictly remember trying to arrest someone in Mass Effect and Shepard shot him in the head.

I played Mass Effect 3 to some extent. It was subpar compared to proper shooters. While it may have been less whac-a-mole, it still didnt change the fact that from what I did, my 1 strategy worked for nearly every encounter.

SWTOR was not well written. Unless you have terrible standards. Here is just some random video I found looking for an example of SWTOR's "writing"

Loading Video...

If you actually played Dragon Age Ii you would actually know that Anders pushes people away if you try to romance him, even though he may hit on the player if a blue option is used. The third option avoids rivalry points. The romance is NOT pushed on them.

Dialogue trees can detract from the story if the dialogue is wooden. It also limits the characterization of the protagonist. things like the Citadel DLC is not possible with a dialogue tree. And the wheel is far superior for voiced characters. That's why the gaming industry has picked up on Bioware's system. Face it here, both styles have their strengths and weaknesses.

Face facts here....there are many varieties of RPGs...a dialogue tree does not work for Mass Effect just like how a dialogue wheel doesn't really work for Fallout (which Bethesda doesn't get)

Ultima VII's inventory system is crap. No one wants to dig in their bags for a key plot item that can be easily lost. its the most cluttered system ever seen.

It doesn't match word for word because its a thought process, not a summary. That's how the dialogue system works in Mass Effect and games that use the system. The Witcher games are the same way.

SWTOR is written like a Star Wars game. It has Star Wars type writing. Sorry, but Vette is a fan favorite because she is quirky and written like this.

I think Gay Tony is my favorite gay character.