Why can't Sonic get a reboot like Donkey Kong Country Returns or Rayman Origins?

Seriously.

Donkey Kong Country Returns was superb and Rayman Origins is absoluely beautiful and looks extremely fun and inventive level design-wise. So why the hell can't Sega make a legit 2D Sonic reboot (No, Sonic 4 is not even close to legit)? I realize that Sega doesn't have the kind of talent to make a game as good as DKCR, but it doesn't even have to be as good as DKCR. A Sonic reboot just needs to have some creativity invovled and be better (much better) than Sonic 4.

Sonic 4 pretty much shows how lazy Sega has gotten with the Sonic franchise. Yes, Sonic Colors was an imaginative bright spot in the series, but that's a 3D Sonic game (weirdly enough). When it comes to making a sidescrolling reboot, Sega has the laziest of approaches. They basically just ripped off Green Hill Zone, the casino zone from Sonic 2, the Labyrinth Zone from Sonic, and the usual mechanical factory zone, and tried to pass it off as a new experience. It's actually kind of an insult to call it Sonic the Hedgehog 4. That implies that the game actually has new levels. And now Sega is being lazy again with Sonic Generations, choosing to rehash a bunch of older levels instead of come up with something new. But this time they're trying to legitimize the rehashing with the whole "generations" idea.

What makes DKCR so great is that it reminds the player of what made the Donkey Kong Country games so great, but it actually feels like a new experience with new levels and a new look. It is a substantial game that stands firmly on its own two feet. Sonic 4, on the other hand, is just a lazy "episodic" game (because Sega can't be bothered to actually make a substantial 2D Sonic game) that borrows levels from better games and has wonky physics.

I mean, how hard is it to come up with new levels with some pizzaz? I can think of several original level ideas right this moment and I'm not even a game designer!

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. I've just been playing Sonic 3 (which is by far the best Sonic game when you combine it with Sonic & Knuckles IMO), thinking about the disgrace that is Sonic 4, and looking at some brilliant Rayman Origins footage, and thus this rant was born.

Why do you think Sega can't make a legit Sonic sidescrolling reeboot?

Seriously.

Donkey Kong Country Returns was superb and Rayman Origins is absoluely beautiful and looks extremely fun and inventive level design-wise. So why the hell can't Sega make a legit 2D Sonic reboot (No, Sonic 4 is not even close to legit)? I realize that Sega doesn't have the kind of talent to make a game as good as DKCR, but it doesn't even have to be as good as DKCR. A Sonic reboot just needs to have some creativity invovled and be better (much better) than Sonic 4.

Sonic 4 pretty much shows how lazy Sega has gotten with the Sonic franchise. Yes, Sonic Colors was an imaginative bright spot in the series, but that's a 3D Sonic game (weirdly enough). When it comes to making a sidescrolling reboot, Sega has the laziest of approaches. They basically just ripped off Green Hill Zone, the casino zone from Sonic 2, the Labyrinth Zone from Sonic, and the usual mechanical factory zone, and tried to pass it off as a new experience. It's actually kind of an insult to call it Sonic the Hedgehog 4. That implies that the game actually has new levels. And now Sega is being lazy again with Sonic Generations, choosing to rehash a bunch of older levels instead of come up with something new. But this time they're trying to legitimize the rehashing with the whole "generations" idea.

What makes DKCR so great is that it reminds the player of what made the Donkey Kong Country games so great, but it actually feels like a new experience with new levels and a new look. It is a substantial game that stands firmly on its own two feet. Sonic 4, on the other hand, is just a lazy "episodic" game (because Sega can't be bothered to actually make a substantial 2D Sonic game) that borrows levels from better games and has wonky physics.

I mean, how hard is it to come up with new levels with some pizzaz? I can think of several original level ideas right this moment and I'm not even a game designer!

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. I've just been playing Sonic 3 (which is by far the best Sonic game when you combine it with Sonic & Knuckles IMO), thinking about the disgrace that is Sonic 4, and looking at some brilliant Rayman Origins footage, and thus this rant was born.

Why do you think Sega can't make a legit Sonic sidescrolling reeboot?

GreySeal9

Maybe because they have a legion or groupof fanboys complaining about every move the Sonic devs make with the Sonic franchise. I just wish Sega went their own way and tried to satisfied as many as their fans as possible without adding anything that destroys Sonic's gameplay. Any I'm fine with the rehasing of stage names or stages in generations since it's an anniversary collection.

Sonic isnt relevant anymore...Sega should stop making Sonic games as its getting embarrassing. Sonic 1 and 2 is all we need.Moon__Light

Lol What! Have you played any of the recent sonic games like Sonic Colours?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Seriously.

Donkey Kong Country Returns was superb and Rayman Origins is absoluely beautiful and looks extremely fun and inventive level design-wise. So why the hell can't Sega make a legit 2D Sonic reboot (No, Sonic 4 is not even close to legit)? I realize that Sega doesn't have the kind of talent to make a game as good as DKCR, but it doesn't even have to be as good as DKCR. A Sonic reboot just needs to have some creativity invovled and be better (much better) than Sonic 4.

Sonic 4 pretty much shows how lazy Sega has gotten with the Sonic franchise. Yes, Sonic Colors was an imaginative bright spot in the series, but that's a 3D Sonic game (weirdly enough). When it comes to making a sidescrolling reboot, Sega has the laziest of approaches. They basically just ripped off Green Hill Zone, the casino zone from Sonic 2, the Labyrinth Zone from Sonic, and the usual mechanical factory zone, and tried to pass it off as a new experience. It's actually kind of an insult to call it Sonic the Hedgehog 4. That implies that the game actually has new levels. And now Sega is being lazy again with Sonic Generations, choosing to rehash a bunch of older levels instead of come up with something new. But this time they're trying to legitimize the rehashing with the whole "generations" idea.

What makes DKCR so great is that it reminds the player of what made the Donkey Kong Country games so great, but it actually feels like a new experience with new levels and a new look. It is a substantial game that stands firmly on its own two feet. Sonic 4, on the other hand, is just a lazy "episodic" game (because Sega can't be bothered to actually make a substantial 2D Sonic game) that borrows levels from better games and has wonky physics.

I mean, how hard is it to come up with new levels with some pizzaz? I can think of several original level ideas right this moment and I'm not even a game designer!

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. I've just been playing Sonic 3 (which is by far the best Sonic game when you combine it with Sonic & Knuckles IMO), thinking about the disgrace that is Sonic 4, and looking at some brilliant Rayman Origins footage, and thus this rant was born.

Why do you think Sega can't make a legit Sonic sidescrolling reeboot?

super600

Maybe because they have a legion or groupof fanboys complaining about every movethe Sonic devs make with the Sonic franchise. I just wish Sega went their own way and tried to satisfied as many as their fans as possible without adding anything that destroys Sonic's gameplay. Any I'm fine with the rehasing of stage names or stages ingenerations since it's an anniversary collection.

That's pretty much Sega's problem. They keep trying to cater to fans instead of just making a great 2D Sonic sidescroller just for the sake of making a great game. They think that fans want rehashes of the old levels when many fans just want original levels with strong designs.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Seriously.

Donkey Kong Country Returns was superb and Rayman Origins is absoluely beautiful and looks extremely fun and inventive level design-wise. So why the hell can't Sega make a legit 2D Sonic reboot (No, Sonic 4 is not even close to legit)? I realize that Sega doesn't have the kind of talent to make a game as good as DKCR, but it doesn't even have to be as good as DKCR. A Sonic reboot just needs to have some creativity invovled and be better (much better) than Sonic 4.

Sonic 4 pretty much shows how lazy Sega has gotten with the Sonic franchise. Yes, Sonic Colors was an imaginative bright spot in the series, but that's a 3D Sonic game (weirdly enough). When it comes to making a sidescrolling reboot, Sega has the laziest of approaches. They basically just ripped off Green Hill Zone, the casino zone from Sonic 2, the Labyrinth Zone from Sonic, and the usual mechanical factory zone, and tried to pass it off as a new experience. It's actually kind of an insult to call it Sonic the Hedgehog 4. That implies that the game actually has new levels. And now Sega is being lazy again with Sonic Generations, choosing to rehash a bunch of older levels instead of come up with something new. But this time they're trying to legitimize the rehashing with the whole "generations" idea.

What makes DKCR so great is that it reminds the player of what made the Donkey Kong Country games so great, but it actually feels like a new experience with new levels and a new look. It is a substantial game that stands firmly on its own two feet. Sonic 4, on the other hand, is just a lazy "episodic" game (because Sega can't be bothered to actually make a substantial 2D Sonic game) that borrows levels from better games and has wonky physics.

I mean, how hard is it to come up with new levels with some pizzaz? I can think of several original level ideas right this moment and I'm not even a game designer!

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. I've just been playing Sonic 3 (which is by far the best Sonic game when you combine it with Sonic & Knuckles IMO), thinking about the disgrace that is Sonic 4, and looking at some brilliant Rayman Origins footage, and thus this rant was born.

Why do you think Sega can't make a legit Sonic sidescrolling reeboot?

GreySeal9

Maybe because they have a legion or groupof fanboys complaining about every movethe Sonic devs make with the Sonic franchise. I just wish Sega went their own way and tried to satisfied as many as their fans as possible without adding anything that destroys Sonic's gameplay. Any I'm fine with the rehasing of stage names or stages ingenerations since it's an anniversary collection.

That's pretty much Sega's problem. They keep trying to cater to fans instead of just making a great 2D Sonic sidescroller just for the sake of making a great game. They think that fans want rehashes of the old levels when many fans just want original levels with strong designs.

If they at least follow the route they took with colours and ignore the fan complaints that are useless(like the green eyes and the modern design)then they can make a succesful sonic sidescroller.

Sonic isnt relevant anymore...Sega should stop making Sonic games as its getting embarrassing. Sonic 1 and 2 is all we need.Moon__Light

Expect Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles were better games then Sonic 1 & 2. As for recent Sonic games, I will be the first one to admit that many of them suck. But the handheld titles and Sonic Colors were well-received games that did very well with both critics and most fans.

Hell, Sonic Colors has been called the game that is getting the Sonic series back on track. And from what I've seen of Sonic Generations it looks like that game will be very promising.

Yes, Sonic has been made some crappy games with Sonic's name on it in recent years. But the handheld titles have always done well and it looks like the console titles are following suit now that Sega is leaning that idiotic gimmicks that don't suit Sonic's gameplay do nothing to help the experience.

[QUOTE="Moon__Light"]Sonic isnt relevant anymore...Sega should stop making Sonic games as its getting embarrassing. Sonic 1 and 2 is all we need.caryslan2

Expect Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles were better games then Sonic 1 & 2. As for recent Sonic games, I will be the first one to admit that many of them suck. But the handheld titles and Sonic Colors were well-received games that did very well with both critics and most fans.

Hell, Sonic Colors has been called the game that is getting the Sonic series back on track. And from what I've seen of Sonic Generations it looks like that game will be very promising.

Yes, Sonic has been made some crappy games with Sonic's name on it in recent years. But the handheld titles have always done well and it looks like the console titles are following suit now that Sega is leaning that idiotic gimmicks that don't suit Sonic's gameplay do nothing to help the experience.

The handheld Sonic titles are very solid and actually have creativity in the level designs, but I notice that they play quite different than the classics. Atleast the Sonic Rush games do.

I really wish Sega would make an imaginative Sonic sidescrolling game that plays more like a traditional Sonic game.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="super600"]

Maybe because they have a legion or groupof fanboys complaining about every movethe Sonic devs make with the Sonic franchise. I just wish Sega went their own way and tried to satisfied as many as their fans as possible without adding anything that destroys Sonic's gameplay. Any I'm fine with the rehasing of stage names or stages ingenerations since it's an anniversary collection.

super600

That's pretty much Sega's problem. They keep trying to cater to fans instead of just making a great 2D Sonic sidescroller just for the sake of making a great game. They think that fans want rehashes of the old levels when many fans just want original levels with strong designs.

If they at least follow the route they took with colours and ignore the fan complaints that are useless(like the green eyes and the modern design)then they can make a succesful sonic sidescroller.

Yeah, they can give him bloodshot drug addict eyes for all I care. Just make a great game.

Current gen hardware is incapable of Blast Processing, simple as that.getyeryayasout

I just looked up what Blast Processing is and chuckled to myself.

Current gen hardware is incapable of Blast Processing, simple as that.getyeryayasout

Current gen hardwarecan handle speeds that blast processing can't handle because sonic runs faster in sonic unleashed(HD version) then in the classsics. The current gen hardware just may mess with classic sonic's physics a little bit,but I'm not sure if this true.

isn't sonic generations a reboot? or remake or whatever..who cares, that demo was FUN. can't wait for it.

[QUOTE="getyeryayasout"]Current gen hardware is incapable of Blast Processing, simple as that.super600

Current gen hardwarecan handle speeds that blast processing can't handle because sonic runs faster in sonic unleashed(HD version) then in the classsics. The current gen hardware just may mess with classic sonic's physics a little bit,but I'm not sure if this true.

I think he's joking about Blast Processing:http://www.giantbomb.com/blast-processing/92-963/

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="getyeryayasout"]Current gen hardware is incapable of Blast Processing, simple as that.GreySeal9

Current gen hardwarecan handle speeds that blast processing can't handle because sonic runs faster in sonic unleashed(HD version) then in the classsics. The current gen hardware just may mess with classic sonic's physics a little bit,but I'm not sure if this true.

I think he's joking about Blast Processing:http://www.giantbomb.com/blast-processing/92-963/

Okay then!

isn't sonic generations a reboot? or remake or whatever..who cares, that demo was FUN. can't wait for it.

Chris_Williams

Honestly, I don't know what the heck to call it, but I see it as another way for Sega not to come up with some new levels.

Because Sega isn't what it used to be. It's a shame but it's the truth. :(Sgt_Crow

But i am sure that they can make some awesome remakes of Sonic 1,2,3,Sonic and Knuckles with 2D/3D HD graphics like Rayman Origins.

Well, Sonic 4 would have been great if it was an actual, full blown product. If they expanded on it and offered more than just Sonic vs Eggman then it could have been great. The mechanics were fine but it was essentially like a preview of what was to come. Are they even going to go ahead and make Episode 2?

Though I think Sonic Generations looks awesome.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Seriously.

Donkey Kong Country Returns was superb and Rayman Origins is absoluely beautiful and looks extremely fun and inventive level design-wise. So why the hell can't Sega make a legit 2D Sonic reboot (No, Sonic 4 is not even close to legit)? I realize that Sega doesn't have the kind of talent to make a game as good as DKCR, but it doesn't even have to be as good as DKCR. A Sonic reboot just needs to have some creativity invovled and be better (much better) than Sonic 4.

Sonic 4 pretty much shows how lazy Sega has gotten with the Sonic franchise. Yes, Sonic Colors was an imaginative bright spot in the series, but that's a 3D Sonic game (weirdly enough). When it comes to making a sidescrolling reboot, Sega has the laziest of approaches. They basically just ripped off Green Hill Zone, the casino zone from Sonic 2, the Labyrinth Zone from Sonic, and the usual mechanical factory zone, and tried to pass it off as a new experience. It's actually kind of an insult to call it Sonic the Hedgehog 4. That implies that the game actually has new levels. And now Sega is being lazy again with Sonic Generations, choosing to rehash a bunch of older levels instead of come up with something new. But this time they're trying to legitimize the rehashing with the whole "generations" idea.

What makes DKCR so great is that it reminds the player of what made the Donkey Kong Country games so great, but it actually feels like a new experience with new levels and a new look. It is a substantial game that stands firmly on its own two feet. Sonic 4, on the other hand, is just a lazy "episodic" game (because Sega can't be bothered to actually make a substantial 2D Sonic game) that borrows levels from better games and has wonky physics.

I mean, how hard is it to come up with new levels with some pizzaz? I can think of several original level ideas right this moment and I'm not even a game designer!

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. I've just been playing Sonic 3 (which is by far the best Sonic game when you combine it with Sonic & Knuckles IMO), thinking about the disgrace that is Sonic 4, and looking at some brilliant Rayman Origins footage, and thus this rant was born.

Why do you think Sega can't make a legit Sonic sidescrolling reeboot?

GreySeal9

Maybe because they have a legion or groupof fanboys complaining about every movethe Sonic devs make with the Sonic franchise. I just wish Sega went their own way and tried to satisfied as many as their fans as possible without adding anything that destroys Sonic's gameplay. Any I'm fine with the rehasing of stage names or stages ingenerations since it's an anniversary collection.

That's pretty much Sega's problem. They keep trying to cater to fans instead of just making a great 2D Sonic sidescroller just for the sake of making a great game. They think that fans want rehashes of the old levels when many fans just want original levels with strong designs.

Let's be honest here, what did NSMB and NSMBWii do to reinvent the 2-D Mario formula? All the levels were archetypes that were found in the older 2-D Mario games, they still followed the formula of a map that had several levels with fortresses and bonus games added in, and the powerups felt like evolutions of older ones in the franchise, and you still had the feeling that the games were created to appeal to old-school Mario players that grew up with Mario on the NES and SNES.

At the end of the day, both those games did not try to stray too far from the classic Mario formula.

And that's the thing, why is Sonic getting bashed for not innovating their 2-D titles and yet Mario gets a free pass? Even if we go by the idea that Sonic 4 was a terrible game that failed to innovate, I don't see anything wrong with Sonic's 2-D games playing up the nostalgia for older fans.

I would rather see Sega take the Nintendo route and focus of making Sonic's 3D entries innovate titles that move the series forward. Sonic Colors proved that Sonic could have bright future in 3D and I would rather see them build on that instead of falling back on 2D.

Sonic is not Donkey Kong or Rayman. He's a character who was was Mario's equal in the 16-bit era and he deserves to finally move forward with 3D games that redefine the series and even potentially the platforming genre.

Nintendo has found great success with how they are currently handling the Mario franchise. The 3D titles are the innovative titles while the 2D titles are the ones that are based on nostalgia and gameplay of the classic Mario titles.

Personally, I see no issue with Sega following the same approach with Sonic. Let his 3D titles be the innovate titles that redefine the series and move the series in new directions while the 2D titles base themselves in nostalgia and use gameplay that reminds people as to why Sonic became popular in the first place.

Sonic Colors was a promsing start. If the Sonic series wants to once again be considered the equals or close to the level of Mario games, they can't stay in 2D forever.

I loved Sonic, but it gets old. I dunno if it's the gameplay style or what, but I don't really want to see sequals for it. Rayman and DK are traditional platformers, and you can create fun worlds to explore with that style of gameplay, where as Sonic is a little different, and while I enjoyed it the first few times, I'm not really keen on zipping through levels timing my jump button anymore.

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]

isn't sonic generations a reboot? or remake or whatever..who cares, that demo was FUN. can't wait for it.

GreySeal9

Honestly, I don't know what the heck to call it, but I see it as another way for Sega not to come up with some new levels.

The idea behind Sonic Generations is that its an anniversary game that celebrates Sonic's 20th Birthday. That's why the game features Classic Sonic and offers the gameplay style of both classic and modern Sonic titles. The game is not intended to be an innovate new entry to the series like Sonic Colors was.

Its intended to be a celebration of Sonic's classic moments from the past 20 years by bringing back classic levels, enemies, and classic Sonic himself. It also why it offers two styles of gameplay that honors the classic Genesis games and the modern 3D titles.

To be honest, I praise Sega for going to the trouble of doing something like this to celebrate the anniversary of their mascot. Some companies would be content to toss a SNES collection on a disc and call that a celebration to honor their mascot....

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="super600"]

Maybe because they have a legion or groupof fanboys complaining about every movethe Sonic devs make with the Sonic franchise. I just wish Sega went their own way and tried to satisfied as many as their fans as possible without adding anything that destroys Sonic's gameplay. Any I'm fine with the rehasing of stage names or stages ingenerations since it's an anniversary collection.

caryslan2

That's pretty much Sega's problem. They keep trying to cater to fans instead of just making a great 2D Sonic sidescroller just for the sake of making a great game. They think that fans want rehashes of the old levels when many fans just want original levels with strong designs.

Let's be honest here, what did NSMB and NSMBWii do to reinvent the 2-D Mario formula? All the levels were archetypes that were found in the older 2-D Mario games, they still followed the formula of a map that had several levels with fortresses and bonus games added in, and the powerups felt like evolutions of older ones in the franchise, and you still had the feeling that the games were created to appeal to old-school Mario players that grew up with Mario on the NES and SNES.

At the end of the day, both those games did not try to stray too far from the classic Mario formula.

And that's the thing, why is Sonic getting bashed for not innovating their 2-D titles and yet Mario gets a free pass? Even if we go by the idea that Sonic 4 was a terrible game that failed to innovate, I don't see anything wrong with Sonic's 2-D games playing up the nostalgia for older fans.

I would rather see Sega take the Nintendo route and focus of making Sonic's 3D entries innovate titles that move the series forward. Sonic Colors proved that Sonic could have bright future in 3D and I would rather see them build on that instead of falling back on 2D.

Sonic is not Donkey Kong or Rayman. He's a character who was was Mario's equal in the 16-bit era and he deserves to finally move forward with 3D games that redefine the series and even potentially the platforming genre.

Nintendo has found great success with how they are currently handling the Mario franchise. The 3D titles are the innovative titles while the 2D titles are the ones that are based on nostalgia and gameplay of the classic Mario titles.

Personally, I see no issue with Sega following the same approach with Sonic. Let his 3D titles be the innovate titles that redefine the series and move the series in new directions while the 2D titles base themselves in nostalgia and use gameplay that reminds people as to why Sonic became popular in the first place.

Sonic Colors was a promsing start. If the Sonic series wants to once again be considered the equals or close to the level of Mario games, they can't stay in 2D forever.

NSMB didn't do anything to re-invent the 2D Mario formula and NSMB Wii got a pretty good deal of flak for that, but not as much as Sonic 4 simply because NSMB DS and Wii are much better games than Sonic 4. Also, though NSMB is very similar to the classic Marios, it's level designs don't give nearly the same sense of deja vu that Sonic 4 does.

What's more: NSMB is not touting itself as Super Mario Bros 4. It just feels really weird for them to use the title Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and then serve up an imitation of levels from Sonic 1 & 2.

I agree that Sonic should move forward in 3D and satisfy the "classic niche" in 2D, but is some original levels too much to ask for? I think that a 2D Sonic reboot should follow the same approach as the classics, but that doesn't mean I want to play Green Hill Zone again.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]

isn't sonic generations a reboot? or remake or whatever..who cares, that demo was FUN. can't wait for it.

caryslan2

Honestly, I don't know what the heck to call it, but I see it as another way for Sega not to come up with some new levels.

The idea behind Sonic Generations is that its an anniversary game that celebrates Sonic's 20th Birthday. That's why the game features Classic Sonic and offers the gameplay style of both classic and modern Sonic titles. The game is not intended to be an innovate new entry to the series like Sonic Colors was.

Its intended to be a celebration of Sonic's classic moments from the past 20 years by bringing back classic levels, enemies, and classic Sonic himself. It also why it offers two styles of gameplay that honors the classic Genesis games and the modern 3D titles.

To be honest, I praise Sega for going to the trouble of doing something like this to celebrate the anniversary of their mascot. Some companies would be content to toss a SNES collection on a disc and call that a celebration to honor their mascot....

Do you know what Sonic Generation's price is?

Well, Sonic 4 would have been great if it was an actual, full blown product. If they expanded on it and offered more than just Sonic vs Eggman then it could have been great. The mechanics were fine but it was essentially like a preview of what was to come. Are they even going to go ahead and make Episode 2?

Though I think Sonic Generations looks awesome.

IndianaPwns39

I think they're currently developing Sonic 4: Ep 2.

Do you know what Sonic Generation's price is?

GreySeal9

It's priced at $50 on Amazon.

I'd love to see a REAL Sonic The Hedgehog 4, with Rayman: Origins hand drawn sprites.

I doubt we'll get another great 2D Sonic game, but Generations looks good - then again I say that about every new Sonic game.

*stuck in the Sonic Cycle*

Sonic isnt relevant anymore...Sega should stop making Sonic games as its getting embarrassing. Sonic 1 and 2 is all we need.Moon__Light

They keep trying, Sonic The Hedgehog 4: Episode 1, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations... they're trying, maybe Rayman Origins might inspire them to a new standard.lamprey263

Well it's because Sonic Team sucks. They have set the bar so unbelievably low for this once generation defining franchise, that there is no way you can expect them produce a Sonic game on par with the early 90's games like how Retro did with DKCR. At this point, as long as Sonic Team can give us a good game, we should not only be satisfied, but consider it a miracle. Sonic 4 was terrible like you said, but Sonic Colors was the first good game in 16 years, and Generations is looking to follow the same path. I'm just fine with them taking it safe, because 99.9% of their novel ideas have turned out to be horrendous. Maybe after Sonic Team achieves some sustained success we can gradually raise the bar on our expectations, but right now I think it's way too soon to hope for anything more.

Well Generation's is just taking the look of the old levels, it's not as if the layout is the same (atleast I think)

Honestly I could live with them making Generations into its own trilogy or something, there are tons of old levels I'd love to see get the remake treatment

dunno about a reboot, but sonic colors broke the sonic cycle and is a very good game.

Since when does Sonic need a reboot? All it needs is a solid evolution of the gameplay style we've seen in Unleashed and Colours. Generations modern gameplay is delivering that, and it looks fantastic. As far as 2D gameplay, they're doing different things with that ALL THE TIME! People like to claim things like rehash just to hate on Sonic for being Sonic. It's tiresome. Seriously, go back and play the classics. Then play the Rush games. Then play Sonic 4. All have completely different gameplay styles. True, the classic gameplay in Generations follows the classics approach closer than any previous 2D Sonic game since Advance, but that's about it. It really is amazing how few 2D Sonic games over the years have rehashed the classic gameplay. Yet when one Sonic game goes back to the style of gameplay people have been asking for, people complain. Sega cant win. Haters will complain no matter what. People claim Generations using old level themes is rehashing. Level THEMES! Not levels. Level themes. The levels have completely different designs and play very differently. Mario has been using old themes for years, and nobody complained. Mario uses the old enemies all the time. Nobody complains. Just one or two Sonic games use old themes for fanservice, and people call it rehashing. People look for things to complain about Sonic games these days. Sonic Generations could get AAA everywhere and win awards. When the next Sonic game rolls around people will say a bunch of BS about it no matter how good it looks. Sega cant win.

Sonic 4 was classic in one way and one way only. Level themes. The gameplay was NOTHING like the classics. And I don't just mean that in terms of quality. It wasn't even trying to play like the classics. It was trying to offer fanservice with classic themes, enemies and bosses, but its gameplay style was completely different. It was called Sonic 4 only to boost sales. It was not made in any way like the classics, neither with the controls, gameplay or level design.

Sonic Rush was a very unique game and the boost and trick system made it play like no other Sonic game that came before it. Rush Adventure was a solid advancement of that formula, and the DS version of Colours was another solid advancement of that formula, though it removed the trick system and had a focus on the power ups.

The point is that there are different styles of 2D Sonic games and one could consider many 2D Sonic games reboots considering how much changes have been made. It's all of a sudden rehashing when one new Sonic game follows the formula of the classic games for the first time since Sonic advance? So it uses old level themes. So what? Mario does it all the time. Guess what? Rayman Origins E3 demo had quite a few Rayman 1 references, and don't be surprised when you see old Rayman 1 level themes return. But because Rayman isn't Sonic, that's ok. And people that cry rehash ignore all the recent Sonic games that had original level ideas and themes. The Sonic Advance, Rush games, Unleashed and Colours all had original level ideas and themes. All of a sudden a couple Sonic games throw in some fanservice and people complain. Ridiculous.

I hate blind Sonic haters. And yes, it is blind hatred. These days people will look for things to complain about with Sonic. It doesn't matter how good the games are. There could be a consistent flow of great Sonic games for years, and people will still hate on it. In fact, just watch what's going to happen in a few months. Sonic Generations is going to be releashed to high praise both with the critics and the fans. Fast forward to the announcement of the next Sonic game. People will be hating on it from day one no matter what. Then it will get released to high praise. And so the cycle repeats. That's the real Sonic cycle.

^ Wow, you're angry... O.okhoofia_pika

Since when does Sonic need a reboot? All it needs is a solid evolution of the gameplay style we've seen in Unleashed and Colours. Generations modern gameplay is delivering that, and it looks fantastic. As far as 2D gameplay, they're doing different things with that ALL THE TIME! People like to claim things like rehash just to hate on Sonic for being Sonic. It's tiresome. Seriously, go back and play the classics. Then play the Rush games. Then play Sonic 4. All have completely different gameplay styles. True, the classic gameplay in Generations follows the classics approach closer than any previous 2D Sonic game since Advance, but that's about it. It really is amazing how few 2D Sonic games over the years have rehashed the classic gameplay. Yet when one Sonic game goes back to the style of gameplay people have been asking for, people complain. Sega cant win. Haters will complain no matter what. People claim Generations using old level themes is rehashing. Level THEMES! Not levels. Level themes. The levels have completely different designs and play very differently. Mario has been using old themes for years, and nobody complained. Mario uses the old enemies all the time. Nobody complains. Just one or two Sonic games use old themes for fanservice, and people call it rehashing. People look for things to complain about Sonic games these days. Sonic Generations could get AAA everywhere and win awards. When the next Sonic game rolls around people will say a bunch of BS about it no matter how good it looks. Sega cant win.

Sonic 4 was classic in one way and one way only. Level themes. The gameplay was NOTHING like the classics. And I don't just mean that in terms of quality. It wasn't even trying to play like the classics. It was trying to offer fanservice with classic themes, enemies and bosses, but its gameplay style was completely different. It was called Sonic 4 only to boost sales. It was not made in any way like the classics, neither with the controls, gameplay or level design.

Sonic Rush was a very unique game and the boost and trick system made it play like no other Sonic game that came before it. Rush Adventure was a solid advancement of that formula, and the DS version of Colours was another solid advancement of that formula, though it removed the trick system and had a focus on the power ups.

The point is that there are different styles of 2D Sonic games and one could consider many 2D Sonic games reboots considering how much changes have been made. It's all of a sudden rehashing when one new Sonic game follows the formula of the classic games for the first time since Sonic advance? So it uses old level themes. So what? Mario does it all the time. Guess what? Rayman Origins E3 demo had quite a few Rayman 1 references, and don't be surprised when you see old Rayman 1 level themes return. But because Rayman isn't Sonic, that's ok. And people that cry rehash ignore all the recent Sonic games that had original level ideas and themes. The Sonic Advance, Rush games, Unleashed and Colours all had original level ideas and themes. All of a sudden a couple Sonic games throw in some fanservice and people complain. Ridiculous.

I hate blind Sonic haters. And yes, it is blind hatred. These days people will look for things to complain about with Sonic. It doesn't matter how good the games are. There could be a consistent flow of great Sonic games for years, and people will still hate on it. In fact, just watch what's going to happen in a few months. Sonic Generations is going to be releashed to high praise both with the critics and the fans. Fast forward to the announcement of the next Sonic game. People will be hating on it from day one no matter what. Then it will get released to high praise. And so the cycle repeats. That's the real Sonic cycle.

burgeg

I can't reply to all of this, but I'll start by saying that I'm no Sonic hater. Look at my review of Sonic Colors. It's a glowing review.

Also, Sonic 4 is clearly aiming to play like the classics. The physics are worky and make it feel "off", but the level design is very much going for that old Sonic feel, unlike Sonic Rush. It's just Sonic 4 fails at trying to feel like the classics because of the weird physics among other things.

I guess Rayman level themes could return, but I haven't seen anything that blatantly rips off the old games as Sonic 4's levels. References are one thing. Completely ripping off levels and bosses and then calling it "Sonic 4" is quite another.

I do think NSMB could be more creative with its level themes (notice I didn't include it in my OP), but atleast they give you a substantial game that is designed well and has good controls.

Sonic doesn't "need" a reboot, but if they are going to give us one, they should put alot more effort into it than they did Sonic 4.

Because for every one person like you that complains about Sonic Team sticking to a working formula instead of innovating there are about 50 others who would complain harder if they didn't. Plain and simple.

Edit - Also, you're stating Sonic 4 is just a rip-off of the classics when all the episodes haven't been released yet. If anything, I think a legit complaint would be releasing the game into episodes.

Well it's because Sonic Team sucks. They have set the bar so unbelievably low for this once generation defining franchise, that there is no way you can't expect them produce a Sonic game on par with the early 90's games like how Retro did with DKCR. At this point, as long as Sonic Team can give us a good game, we should not only be satisfied, but consider it a miracle. Sonic 4 was terrible like you said, but Sonic Colors was the first good game in 16 years, and Generations is looking to follow the same path. I'm just fine with them taking it safe, because 99.9% of their novel ideas have turned out to be horrendous. Maybe after Sonic Team achieves some sustained success we can gradually raise the bar on our expectations, but right now I think it's way too soon to hope for anything more.

Renegade_Fury

That is true, but I don't really want them do anything new in a 2D sidescrolling reboot. I just want them to be somewhat imaginative instead of the extremely generic levels we got in Sonic 4.

I guess I agree about the expectations thing, but it just seems that some of the issues with Sonic 4 are just so easy to address, but I could be wrong as I'm not a game designer.

Because for every one person like you that complains about Sonic Team sticking to a working formula instead of innovating there are about 50 others who would complain harder if they didn't. Plain and simple.

Edit - Also, you're stating Sonic 4 is just a rip-off of the classics when all the episodes haven't been released yet. If anything, I think a legit complaint would be releasing the game into episodes.

DanteSuikoden

That's not my argument. I'm complaining abut a lack of imagination in the levels, not a lack of innovation. Like Renegade_Fury said, Sonic Team gets in trouble when they try to innovate. I don't see why they can't make a sequel (since they are acting like Sonic 4 is a true sequel to Sonic 3) the way they made sequels back in the day by just coming up with a new set of new levels. If they are just going to rehash levels from the original trilogy, then call it "New Sonic the Hedghog", don't act like it's a sequel to Sonic 3.

Don't even get me started on the episodic nature of the Sonic 4.

That would be great if they released original levels for Sonic 4: Episode 2, but I kind of doubt they will. And judging the Sonic 4 we have right now, it's highly generic.

Because they think there's still life in him to not have one.

Sonic 4 would've been the proper reboot if it hadn't been split into episodes.

Because they think there's still life in him to not have one.

mitu123

But they did do a 2D console reboot in the form of Sonic 4.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Because they think there's still life in him to not have one.

GreySeal9

But they did do a 2D console reboot in the form of Sonic 4.

Sonic 1, 2, 3, and Sonic & Knuckles is all we need.Moon__Light

Fixed for ya ;)

[QUOTE="getyeryayasout"]Current gen hardware is incapable of Blast Processing, simple as that.super600

Current gen hardwarecan handle speeds that blast processing can't handle because sonic runs faster in sonic unleashed(HD version) then in the classsics. The current gen hardware just may mess with classic sonic's physics a little bit,but I'm not sure if this true.

What good would it do? People aren't going to treat the series any differently just because it "reboots". And what would be better about a reboot than simply making good games?

Sonic is not a franchise that needs rebooting.

A franchise should not be rebooted because it had a few bad games, unless the games threw the franchise so hard into the ground that they didn't sell and was left in the cold for years, then yes, that works.

I love the Sonic series for being a series, a long and eventful ongoing story, and while I know it has it's plotholes and is quite hard to tie everything together, that's the way I like it. One big story. Sonic does have canon and history and it's great. Why would you wanna get rid of all that? I see no reason to reboot. We've had 20 years of the franchise as it is, what is there in need of changing or altering and throw away with all that's happenend in those 20 years?

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

Since when does Sonic need a reboot? All it needs is a solid evolution of the gameplay style we've seen in Unleashed and Colours. Generations modern gameplay is delivering that, and it looks fantastic. As far as 2D gameplay, they're doing different things with that ALL THE TIME! People like to claim things like rehash just to hate on Sonic for being Sonic. It's tiresome. Seriously, go back and play the classics. Then play the Rush games. Then play Sonic 4. All have completely different gameplay styles. True, the classic gameplay in Generations follows the classics approach closer than any previous 2D Sonic game since Advance, but that's about it. It really is amazing how few 2D Sonic games over the years have rehashed the classic gameplay. Yet when one Sonic game goes back to the style of gameplay people have been asking for, people complain. Sega cant win. Haters will complain no matter what. People claim Generations using old level themes is rehashing. Level THEMES! Not levels. Level themes. The levels have completely different designs and play very differently. Mario has been using old themes for years, and nobody complained. Mario uses the old enemies all the time. Nobody complains. Just one or two Sonic games use old themes for fanservice, and people call it rehashing. People look for things to complain about Sonic games these days. Sonic Generations could get AAA everywhere and win awards. When the next Sonic game rolls around people will say a bunch of BS about it no matter how good it looks. Sega cant win.

Sonic 4 was classic in one way and one way only. Level themes. The gameplay was NOTHING like the classics. And I don't just mean that in terms of quality. It wasn't even trying to play like the classics. It was trying to offer fanservice with classic themes, enemies and bosses, but its gameplay style was completely different. It was called Sonic 4 only to boost sales. It was not made in any way like the classics, neither with the controls, gameplay or level design.

Sonic Rush was a very unique game and the boost and trick system made it play like no other Sonic game that came before it. Rush Adventure was a solid advancement of that formula, and the DS version of Colours was another solid advancement of that formula, though it removed the trick system and had a focus on the power ups.

The point is that there are different styles of 2D Sonic games and one could consider many 2D Sonic games reboots considering how much changes have been made. It's all of a sudden rehashing when one new Sonic game follows the formula of the classic games for the first time since Sonic advance? So it uses old level themes. So what? Mario does it all the time. Guess what? Rayman Origins E3 demo had quite a few Rayman 1 references, and don't be surprised when you see old Rayman 1 level themes return. But because Rayman isn't Sonic, that's ok. And people that cry rehash ignore all the recent Sonic games that had original level ideas and themes. The Sonic Advance, Rush games, Unleashed and Colours all had original level ideas and themes. All of a sudden a couple Sonic games throw in some fanservice and people complain. Ridiculous.

I hate blind Sonic haters. And yes, it is blind hatred. These days people will look for things to complain about with Sonic. It doesn't matter how good the games are. There could be a consistent flow of great Sonic games for years, and people will still hate on it. In fact, just watch what's going to happen in a few months. Sonic Generations is going to be releashed to high praise both with the critics and the fans. Fast forward to the announcement of the next Sonic game. People will be hating on it from day one no matter what. Then it will get released to high praise. And so the cycle repeats. That's the real Sonic cycle.

GreySeal9

I can't reply to all of this, but I'll start by saying that I'm no Sonic hater. Look at my review of Sonic Colors. It's a glowing review.

Also, Sonic 4 is clearly aiming to play like the classics. The physics are worky and make it feel "off", but the level design is very much going for that old Sonic feel, unlike Sonic Rush. It's just Sonic 4 fails at trying to feel like the classics because of the weird physics among other things.

I guess Rayman level themes could return, but I haven't seen anything that blatantly rips off the old games as Sonic 4's levels. References are one thing. Completely ripping off levels and bosses and then calling it "Sonic 4" is quite another.

I do think NSMB could be more creative with its level themes (notice I didn't include it in my OP), but atleast they give you a substantial game that is designed well and has good controls.

Sonic doesn't "need" a reboot, but if they are going to give us one, they should put alot more effort into it than they did Sonic 4.

But anyway, that's one game. Plenty of other 2D Sonic games are a lot more original with the level themes and ideas. Yes Generations is also playing to nostalgia a lot, but unlike Sonic 4, Generations actually looks great. And remember Generations is just the anniversary game and the whole point of it is to celebrate Sonic's history with plenty of nostalgia. You and I both know future Sonic games, 2D and 3D, will have more original levels and ideas.