Why Consoles Wil never see PC Quality Crysis.

MGS4 character models>Crysis character models.kage_53

Thing I posted on crysis boards:

Firstly, all current consoles do indeed use graphic APIs. The point of such an API (e.g. OpenGL or Direct3D) is not just to unify programming across architectures, but also to greatly simplify development, so they are defiantly still very useful for consoles.
XBox 360 uses a modified version of the DirectX API system (Direct3D, DirectSound, DirectInput) dubbed XNA. If you know DirectX, XNA is roughly the same.
PS3 is using OpenGL (PS2 used no graphics API).
Wii is using a modified OpenGL API, assumed to be roughly 85% implemented.

The PS3's CPU is an item particularly suited to paper-benchmarking. In the real world it is less than steller. One could write a rather lengthy paper reasoning on why, but some of the jist of it I can sum up here.
Firstly, the processor is an in-order execution engine (like the XBox 360's, unlike x86 processors). This means the processor, to save costs mostly, does not reorder instructions for optimal execution at any given situation. This is a bad thing for performance for sure, but will be less so as the compilers get better.
In addition, it is not a true 8-core processor as you would think of a quad-core Intel chip. There are 8 separate processing engines, yes, but only one is a general processor (such as your x86 chip). The others are sub processors that execute (max) 128kb instruction blocks with limited instruction sets targeted mostly at 128bit vector math. In addition, one of these is reserved to manage the others, one is reserved for the OS, and another can be taken by the OS at any time with no warning to the application running. So, in reality, you have a max of 1 general core and 4 sub cores guaranteed at any time.
Oh, and the general core is roughly comparable to an 800 MHz P3.
Not to mention the difficulty of development that makes the extra power of the sub processors rather difficult to use, anyway, and very difficult to maximize.
There are plenty more reasons why the Cell is defiantly over-hyped. If you're interested, look up a lengthy article on Google.
The Cell isn't a terrible processor, just very overhyped.

Quick side note: The XBox 360's CPU is also in-order, but its three cores are three full cores, each capable of running two threads simultaneously. The OS doesn't reserve a core, but rather has the ability to use up to some percentage of resources at any time.

As for the PS3's GPU, it is, as it says in the Wiki and has been mentioned already, more comparable to a 7800, not a 6800 (or two or whatever), albeit slightly hindered by the memory system (128bit).

WhySoCry

Who ever wrote this clearly needs to get out more. People play video games for fun, not to write papers on the architecture of the games workings. You think most of todays games would exist if mr miyamoto spent all his time whacking off in his bed room over the latest CPU, i doubt it. magrappy

The true gamers go further than simply playing games here and there like Casual console users. The true gamers learn more about what makes games function, game philosophy or even compete seriously which involves maximizing performance. The fact is the PC gamers, on average, are more intelligent, well versed and committed to the gaming medium, while console gamers just play for a passing thrill to laugh and amuse them.

There are of course exceptions where you have hardcore gamers on consoles and casual players on PC but the aformentioned stands. 

Direct X 10 requires all kinds of crazy rendering methods and things that require architecture SPECIFICALLY BUILT for DX10. DX10 functionallity is far from the entire thing. They are worlds apart.Vandalvideo

Do you know exactly what specific architecture is built for DX10?  afaik, the major hardware change is a unified shader architecture, which the 360 GPU does have.  Aside from that, DX10 has more strict hardware requirements, but I think those are performance-related and not necessary a change of architecture or design.  Source

I know the 360 will never have Crysis-level graphics, but I just thought I would point that out.

I actually have a great deal of faith in the Cell and 360GPU. I think both consoles could handle "PC-Quality Crysis," graphically.

But, unfortunately, they will not see PC quality crysis because user-made mods will not be avaliable to console players; hell, Microsoft will try to charge you for stuff if it were put on 360, =/.

I actually have a great deal of faith in the Cell and 360GPU. I think both consoles could handle "PC-Quality Crysis," graphically.

But, unfortunately, they will not see PC quality crysis because user-made mods will not be avaliable to console players; hell, Microsoft will try to charge you for stuff if it were put on 360, =/.

FoamingPanda

faith =/= facts.

afaik, the major hardware change is a unified shader architecture, which the 360 GPU does have.

 

No, the major change was the introduction of geometry shaders. The unified shader architecture isn't even needed for dx10. Ati can release discrete pipeline DX10 cards any time, and the performance would be roughly the same.

 

 

No, the major change was the introduction of geometry shaders. The unified shader architecture isn't even needed for dx10. Ati can release discrete pipeline DX10 cards any time, and the performance would be roughly the same.

WhySoCry

A unified shader core maximizes efficiency.  While I understand it's not NECESSARY for DX10, having three separate pipelines is much more inefficient.  I highly doubt the performance would be comparable.

[QUOTE="WhySoCry"]

No, the major change was the introduction of geometry shaders. The unified shader architecture isn't even needed for dx10. Ati can release discrete pipeline DX10 cards any time, and the performance would be roughly the same.

MyopicCanadian

A unified shader core maximizes efficiency. While I understand it's not NECESSARY for DX10, having three separate pipelines is much more inefficient. I highly doubt the performance would be comparable.

[QUOTE="kage_53"]MGS4 character models>Crysis character models.WhySoCry

Ownage approved, even though he'll counter with the "but you picked the worst MGS pic possible!"

Well he could find one that is better then the one I posted. But this one is more recent.WhySoCry

Whysocry, I remember someone asking you in an earlier thread about bying a good quality rig. You listed parts and where to get them for roughly 600 dollars. I thought I had written that down. I couldnt find it either. It was a thread where some guy who wanted to ship parts out of the country. Basically, I know someone who wants a good comp but is getting a PS3 instead. I must prevent this. Do you think you could list that again? Thanks.

Lol, do you live in the states?WhySoCry

yes. i was just tryin to remind you of the post you sent.

Hermit propaganda, yay! No one cares. You're adopted.Not-A-Stalker

Wow, sad. The only logical post is always buried by crap.WhySoCry

always logical posts are buried by crap, welcome to system wars 

Flamebait? Just informing people. I in no way bashed a console in my original post.WhySoCry

This thread has been reduced into a flame-fest. Just look at it. Let it die.

[QUOTE="kage_53"]MGS4 character models>Crysis character models.WhySoCry

The TC can spew out as much PC hardware knowledge and console hardware knowledge as he wants.  Doesn't mean much.  If God of War 2 is capable on PS2 architecture, I'm sure talented developers somewhere can make a game for 360 that looks very, very close to Crysis.  Saying that consoles will never have this type of graphical quality sounds like denial.  360 is only a year and a half old.  Compare original Xbox launch titles to Ninja Gaiden and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.  HUGE DIFFERENCE IN GRAPHICS.  I'm sure by late 2008, early 2009 Crysis level graphics will become a certainty for 360 and PS3. AvIdGaMeR444

No they can't lmfao! All of the consoles even the PS2 have technical limitations buddy! For example lets take texture quality, Ps2 games may have advanced in some ways graphicall, BUT there are some way in which it has stayed the same, texture for example, the quality of textures haven't really improved at all over the life of the PS2.

Crysis also manages to achieve it's look through some DX10 unique features that the new consoles simply cannot do. The main feature that allows Crysis to do what it does is a feature that allows the game to draw an object in which their are many of one time, so instead of drawing 1,000 of the same tree 1,000 times it only does it once. This is something that simply can't be done on the PS3/360 hardware.

Their are many other factors you ignorantly refuse to take into account avid like the fact that over time technology advances faster and faster and faster, hardware is increasingly becoming dated at a faster rate.

All in all looking back at past achievments like GOW2 is quite a stupid justification for thinking it will happen again not that GoW2.

While the the crappy hardware of the PS2 doing gow2 is quite a nice achievment it really isn't the big deal you make it out to be.

The reason I think so many of you lemmings/sheep think you may achieve Crysis like graphics is because you'll look at one character or one building in Crysis and compare it to something out of a 360 game and say you see that isn't worlds better or better at all.

Like when the Halo 3 video came out of E3 last year all the lemmings were in joy saying Halo 3 is going to beat Crysis graphically because of how great master chief looked in comparison.

The thing is though there really is so much more to it then that when you look at the fact that in Crysis you have

an unprecedented level of destructability in building/the environment.

More highly detailed objects on the screen (see the forest) then ever see in a game

All thise with HDR/ soft shadows/ high resolution textures/ Volumetric clouds/Shader model 4 and more.

Look at all of the distant games coming out to the next gen consoles within the next couple of years, some of them may pull of some of these things, but the fact that Crysis is doing all that it's doing in one picture is just insane.

This isn't like Doom 3 and such were the game just went to make and impressive indoor scene no, in Crysis they took all of the hardest things to do and slapped them altogether and made it look phenominal which is why it's so amazing.

Crysis isn't looking to just up the antte drastically in one area as Doom 3 did with shadows, it's doing it across the board.

All they use is better tricks to decieve players. Consoles don't get magically better over time.WhySoCry

Thats true, like the insane amount of bluring applied in games like Shadows of the Colossus to hide the trash textures, the thing is though they will be using all of those tricks off the bat this gen and their just isn't going to be tricks like that to hide the weak graphics because they are already in use!

Blur really essentially is the main thing that made later PS2 games look better, they got good at using it.

what is it with you pc gamers? Accept it PCs will NEVERbe as good as consoles when it comes to gaming. This is because consoles are dedicated and have been thoroughly researched by enormous companies to be the best in gaming. Last time I checked a slapped togethergaming pc can't brag that.hotsauceyguy

What? What companies? What research? Are you high? "Teh comapies sayz so. Oppinionz MUST be true lolz!"

[QUOTE="hotsauceyguy"]what is it with you pc gamers? Accept it PCs will NEVERbe as good as consoles when it comes to gaming. This is because consoles are dedicated and have been thoroughly researched by enormous companies to be the best in gaming. Last time I checked a slapped togethergaming pc can't brag that.organic_machine

What? What companies? What research? Are you high? "Teh comapies sayz so. Oppinionz MUST be true lolz!"

Just look at this guy's avatar and sig...do you REALLY want to waste time conversing with him

Its great to use bad screens...:roll:

kage_53

I love how mgs4 fanboys always pick up a screen like that and then pretend that's how detailed all characters are.  

Crysis models hold up to MGS4 nicely. WHat's more in Crysis all character models are detailed. in MGS4 only Snake and few NPCs/bosses are nicely detailed, majority of characters are very simplistic (closer to Far Cry than Crysis),

this is how most characters look in MGS4.

they don't hold a candle to Crysis

so even in character models Crysis wins 

[QUOTE="hotsauceyguy"]what is it with you pc gamers? Accept it PCs will NEVERbe as good as consoles when it comes to gaming. This is because consoles are dedicated and have been thoroughly researched by enormous companies to be the best in gaming. Last time I checked a slapped togethergaming pc can't brag that.organic_machine

What? What companies? What research? Are you high? "Teh comapies sayz so. Oppinionz MUST be true lolz!"

yeah, don't bother with this troll. 

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]

[QUOTE="hotsauceyguy"]what is it with you pc gamers? Accept it PCs will NEVERbe as good as consoles when it comes to gaming. This is because consoles are dedicated and have been thoroughly researched by enormous companies to be the best in gaming. Last time I checked a slapped togethergaming pc can't brag that.WhySoCry

What? What companies? What research? Are you high? "Teh comapies sayz so. Oppinionz MUST be true lolz!"

yeah, don't bother with this troll. 

"It's scientifically proven BY SCIENCE dat teh PS3 is more powerful and much much cooler than ANY silly PC... omg!!" :lol: