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#51 Pangster007

Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

KB/M is far and away the best control yet for games that are mostly about aiming at targets or clicking on small objects, and gamepads are far and away the best control for games that are mostly about changing position carefully. So, PC gamers are really just saying that console controllers are much worse than KB/M for games like Supreme Commander and Crysis, and they're right. Console gamers usually get so offended at the idea that they forget to counter that gamepads are better than KB/M for games like Gran Turismo and Ninja Gaiden. Granted, you can buy gamepads made for PC; but some games just aren't published for PCs. Oh well, people like to take sides, regardless of whatever are the relevant facts.WeeWeeJumbo

Actually, i think touch screen and 'laser-pointing-type' controls are the best for "aiming at targets or clicking on small objects". Either way, i believe the kb/m is the next best alternative and the gamepad as a distant third for that type of control.

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 2301 Posts

I prefer controllers.

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 753 Posts

i have much more flexibility on with my mouse and keyboard

for some weird reason i aim better with a mouse

17 years ago

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#54 WeeWeeJumbo

Member since 2005 • 5380 Posts

[QUOTE="Spartan070"] Yeah but fighters rarely ever come out on PC.

Sure, OK. How about a game like Super Mario Galaxy? Would you like to try out your KB/M to play that game? Or Ninja Gaiden? Or any of the Jak games? Man, lots of these kinds of games never make it to PC (although for the record, DMC 3 did). Good thing, because they would be horrible with a keyboard, and any of them would force you to buy a USB gamepad--but a PC game that demands the purchase of a controller has a disadvantage to a PC game that doesn't. Now try to imagine that this fact has no relationship to the fact that these genres almost don't exist on PC. See, you can't.

But RTS games do appear sometimes on consoles after appearing on PC. When that's the story--when it was a PC RTS, then ported to a console, reviewers inevitably complain that the control just isn't what it used to be. I think we can take it for granted that the reason why RTS is a mostly undeveloped genre on consoles, is that there's no good console-controller answer to the problem of selecting small objects quickly and accurately, and RTS design almost always demands this.

And I liked the Halo games a lot, and I've been playing PC FPS since they started, and both Halo games auto-aim (or auto-target, or any name you want to call it--they guide your aim) because even at their low aimlook and movement speed, it's just not reasonable to expect people to have very high precision when aiming with thumbsticks.

17 years ago

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#55 CLeRKSfan4life

Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

I think keyboard and mouse is great for 1st and 3rd person games but for other genres it's crap. Playing a N64 emulator with KB+M is horrible. lol

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 15250 Posts

[QUOTE="WeeWeeJumbo"][QUOTE="Spartan070"] Yeah but fighters rarely ever come out on PC.

Sure, OK. How about a game like Super Mario Galaxy? Would you like to try out your KB/M to play that game? Or Ninja Gaiden? Or any of the Jak games? Man, lots of these kinds of games never make it to PC (although for the record, DMC 3 did). Good thing, because they would be horrible with a keyboard, and any of them would force you to buy a USB gamepad--but a PC game that demands the purchase of a controller has a disadvantage to a PC game that doesn't. Now try to imagine that this fact has no relationship to the fact that these genres almost don't exist on PC. See, you can't.

they used to exist, a long time ago.. they just slowly died out in favor of other genres, like the 'newcomer' FPS and RTS games. other things are following the same trend.. i.e. split-screen multiplayer. it used to even be in FPS games on the PC, now it's unheard of. co-op multiplayer campaigns used to be in almost every PC FPS, but it's been slowly axed too. adventure games used to be a pillar of PC gaming, and they're pretty much dead. racing games used to be all over the place, and they've slowly died out. flight sims used to be commonplace, and they've died off. as those genres leave, they take the controllers that used to be considered a part of a gaming PC with them. i haven't owned a joystick in years, though i spent most of the 90's worrying more about that than i did about my mouse/keyboard. i've still got a couple gamepads, though..

17 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 16497 Posts

And I liked the Halo games a lot, and I've been playing PC FPS since they started, and both Halo games auto-aim (or auto-target, or any name you want to call it--they guide your aim) because even at their low aimlook and movement speed, it's just not reasonable to expect people to have very high precision when aiming with thumbsticks.WeeWeeJumbo

It's called practice.:wink: I've completed the Halo 1 and 2 campaigns a combined 169 times, trust me when I say I am plenty efficient at it. Note that I'm not saying a kb/m player can't be more precise, duh, but I do have what you refer to as "high precision." ...and they don't "guide" your aim, I know what you're talking about but "guide" is bad word usage.

17 years ago

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#58 solidsnakeEx3

Member since 2004 • 26413 Posts

Because it's accurate and has more buttons, thus games can have more complex controls. And most games allow you to configure those controls too.

17 years ago

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#59 Perception1

Member since 2006 • 1010 Posts

[QUOTE="WeeWeeJumbo"]And I liked the Halo games a lot, and I've been playing PC FPS since they started, and both Halo games auto-aim (or auto-target, or any name you want to call it--they guide your aim) because even at their low aimlook and movement speed, it's just not reasonable to expect people to have very high precision when aiming with thumbsticks.Spartan070

It's called practice.:wink: I've completed the Halo 1 and 2 campaigns a combined 169 times, trust me when I say I am plenty efficient at it. Note that I'm not saying a kb/m player can't be more precise, duh, but I do have what you refer to as "high precision." ...and they don't "guide" your aim, I know what you're talking about but "guide" is bad word usage.

You have some serious problems.

17 years ago

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#60 WeeWeeJumbo

Member since 2005 • 5380 Posts

[QUOTE="Spartan070"] It's called practice.:wink: I've completed the Halo 1 and 2 campaigns a combined 169 times, trust me when I say I am plenty efficient at it. Note that I'm not saying a kb/m player can't be more precise, duh, but I do have what you refer to as "high precision." ...and they don't "guide" your aim, I know what you're talking about but "guide" is bad word usage.

I'm sure you've logged a whole lot of Halo, but I'm not talking about your skills, or anybody's skills. I'm saying that the mouselook interface is much easier to use and is more accurate. The short throw of the thumbstick is one problem; it's very hard to indicate small amounts of movement. Now, maybe you're awesome with a thumbstick, and when you see somebody say "it's hard," you just assume the speaker sucks. But the point I'm making is that if you had put the same effort and practice into a mouse, you would have become much more deadly with it than you could ever hope to be with a gamepad. At least in FPS games.

The other problem is that a joystick is only a joystick, and it can't be used to indicate the speed of the turning motion, only the degree; a consequence is that with a mouse, in an FPS game, you can make a sudden, large movement--say, turning around--by moving the mouse very fast, even across a small area. Or you can do a quarter turn while moving the mouse across the same space, but more slowly. You can't do this with a thumbstick--or at least, I've never, ever seen it done.

17 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 16497 Posts

[QUOTE="WeeWeeJumbo"][QUOTE="Spartan070"] It's called practice.:wink: I've completed the Halo 1 and 2 campaigns a combined 169 times, trust me when I say I am plenty efficient at it. Note that I'm not saying a kb/m player can't be more precise, duh, but I do have what you refer to as "high precision." ...and they don't "guide" your aim, I know what you're talking about but "guide" is bad word usage.

I'm sure you've logged a whole lot of Halo, but I'm not talking about your skills, or anybody's skills. I'm saying that the mouselook interface is much easier to use and is more accurate. The short throw of the thumbstick is one problem; it's very hard to indicate small amounts of movement. Now, maybe you're awesome with a thumbstick, and when you see somebody say "it's hard," you just assume the speaker sucks. But the point I'm making is that if you had put the same effort and practice into a mouse, you would have become much more deadly with it than you could ever hope to be with a gamepad. At least in FPS games.

The other problem is that a joystick is only a joystick, and it can't be used to indicate the speed of the turning motion, only the degree; a consequence is that with a mouse, in an FPS game, you can make a sudden, large movement--say, turning around--by moving the mouse very fast, even across a small area. Or you can do a quarter turn while moving the mouse across the same space, but more slowly. You can't do this with a thumbstick--or at least, I've never, ever seen it done.

Agreed on all of that, I guess I'm just a freak:?....:P

17 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 3422 Posts

[QUOTE="Choga"]Keyboards and mice are better for shooters period. Mice are practically made for FPSs due to their high rate of accuracy. Keyboards give you more chat options and command options. Shooters were made for the PC, and they will always be best for the PC. Now I still love my Halo 2 and Rainbow Six, but lets be realistic, those games are/will probably be better on the PC (Halo 2 is coming out for the PC). Doing things with your toes is more of a challenge than with your fingers, does that make it better?

killab2oo5

What about the original Perfect Dark and Goldeneye?

Shooters were on the PC since about 1993. Goldeneye came out in 1997....

17 years ago

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