Why do people here hate casuals so much

Gaming was dead in the early 80's. Nintendo came in with it's casual games and brought it back to life.

A little over a decade later Sony brought out it's DVD player with a game player included and the casual market bought it in droves (in a lot of places it sold cheaper then a DVD player so it was the obvious choice)

The casuals have always been the ones that actually move the generation. When Sega started adding each and every add on for the Genesis it scared away the casual gamer, without that support it died and so did Sega's chance of winning that gen.

This generation isn't different then any other.

Jaysonguy

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="mclovin401"]

NO. Nintendo could always compete because they were the only ones around. street fighter 2 CANNOT be mastered by a five year old. GOLDEN EYE MP cannot be mastered by grandma. THE FACT IS THIS (SHEEP LISTEN UP!!). Nintendo knows they could NEVER compete against MS and Sony this gen unless they wanted a repeat of last gen. SOOOOOO, Nintendo SOLD.....thats right SOLD OUT their hardcore base to appeal to a broader audience. an audience compiled of kidies and Oldies (casuals).

The reason why hardcore gamers hate nintendo and/or casuals is because nintendo IS diminishing the hardcore base. dont think MS and sony arent seeing how great the wii is doing. My greatest fear (and many others on GS forums) is that the casual crap that has now become the norm will devoure our precious gears and mgs's. nintendo was the first to sell out to the casual and alienating their base. "hardcore gamers" dont want MS and/or Sony to do the same.

mclovin401

Why are you under the impression this all started this generation?

Is this your first generation following gaming?

This has happened since the NES

no, nintendo was appealing to both hardcore and casuals during the SNES days. like i said before. streetfighter 2 (snes) hardcore(ish), battle toads (snes) hardcore, andso much more i cant even list. nintendo always appealed to the MASSES AS A WHOLE. Giving gamers a slew of hard games, easy games, casual and hardcore. AFTER the snes nintedo started shifting its market target. Now we have the wii. if i had to put a percentage on to which side the wii is geared to id say 85% casual and 15% hardcore. unlike the days of the SNES where it was split about 50/50 in the market.IMO

No

Battle Toads?

Geez

Ok, Nintendo has always been what they are today

They have games that anyone can pick up and play and stories anyone can understand. That's great for the casual gamer

For the hardcore gamer (mind you I said hardcore gamer, there's no such thing as hardcore games) they can play those games and become extremely proficient in them getting speed runs and finding secret levels and glitches. Just like you could find the warp tunnels in Super Mario Bros and finding all the stars in Galaxy.

[QUOTE="rogerjak"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Incorrect

The casual has moved gaming each and every time.

Jaysonguy

Gaming was dead in the early 80's. Nintendo came in with it's casual games and brought it back to life.

A little over a decade later Sony brought out it's DVD player with a game player included and the casual market bought it in droves (in a lot of places it sold cheaper then a DVD player so it was the obvious choice)

The casuals have always been the ones that actually move the generation. When Sega started adding each and every add on for the Genesis it scared away the casual gamer, without that support it died and so did Sega's chance of winning that gen.

This generation isn't different then any other.

What made the Wii sell like hot baggles was the price and the fact that it was market as a "Console for the Family" So you can see the parents buying it for the little kids and wanting to spend times with them.

Now what about the more avid gamers, that isn't satisfied with just Wii Sports or Fit?

IN PS2 case, the DVD was indeed a bait for the more casual player, but the game library tends to differ with that.

No

Battle Toads?

Geez

Ok, Nintendo has always been what they are today

They have games that anyone can pick up and play and stories anyone can understand. That's great for the casual gamer

For the hardcore gamer (mind you I said hardcore gamer, there's no such thing as hardcore games) they can play those games and become extremely proficient in them getting speed runs and finding secret levels and glitches. Just like you could find the warp tunnels in Super Mario Bros and finding all the stars in Galaxy.

Jaysonguy

I think people over exaggerate the difference between hardcore and Casual.

I'm a casual gamer, that's just a fact. My friends and i are casual gamers. I however do NOT play garbage like Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

We play COD, gears, and sports games.

I even play fable and the like, but i'm not a hardcore gamer. I've had my xbox since launch and have yet to muster 10,000 gamerscore, and i have alot of games. i just dont play them alot.

[QUOTE="mclovin401"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Why are you under the impression this all started this generation?

Is this your first generation following gaming?

This has happened since the NES

Jaysonguy

no, nintendo was appealing to both hardcore and casuals during the SNES days. like i said before. streetfighter 2 (snes) hardcore(ish), battle toads (snes) hardcore, andso much more i cant even list. nintendo always appealed to the MASSES AS A WHOLE. Giving gamers a slew of hard games, easy games, casual and hardcore. AFTER the snes nintedo started shifting its market target. Now we have the wii. if i had to put a percentage on to which side the wii is geared to id say 85% casual and 15% hardcore. unlike the days of the SNES where it was split about 50/50 in the market.IMO

No

Battle Toads?

Geez

Ok, Nintendo has always been what they are today

They have games that anyone can pick up and play and stories anyone can understand. That's great for the casual gamer

For the hardcore gamer (mind you I said hardcore gamer, there's no such thing as hardcore games) they can play those games and become extremely proficient in them getting speed runs and finding secret levels and glitches. Just like you could find the warp tunnels in Super Mario Bros and finding all the stars in Galaxy.

i woiuld like to point out the fact that battle toads was very hard, addictive, frustrating and NOT geared torward casuals thats why i mentioned it.

Thunder force already hit the nail on the head. the fact that every console that sold well had a combination of casual games and hardcore games. this gave it a GENERAL APPEAL. the Wii has verry little hardcore games compared to how much casual games in its lineup.........AND IT STILL SELLS!!!!!

FYI- casual games to me consist of cooking mama and ninja bread man and that stupid baby game where you use the wiimote as a babby bottle. it sends shivers down my spine.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="rogerjak"]How so?rogerjak

Gaming was dead in the early 80's. Nintendo came in with it's casual games and brought it back to life.

A little over a decade later Sony brought out it's DVD player with a game player included and the casual market bought it in droves (in a lot of places it sold cheaper then a DVD player so it was the obvious choice)

The casuals have always been the ones that actually move the generation. When Sega started adding each and every add on for the Genesis it scared away the casual gamer, without that support it died and so did Sega's chance of winning that gen.

This generation isn't different then any other.

What made the Wii sell like hot baggles was the price and the fact that it was market as a "Console for the Family" So you can see the parents buying it for the little kids and wanting to spend times with them.

Now what about the more avid gamers, that isn't satisfied with just Wii Sports or Fit?

IN PS2 case, the DVD was indeed a bait for the more casual player, but the game library tends to differ with that.

Price had nothing to do with it, if price was a factor then the Gamecube would have won last gen.

The Wii isn't the first console to say it's for the family.

As far as Wii Fit? I expect every single hardcore gamer to have it because it's something new they haven't done before. You bring up Wii Sports but that's a pack in game that allows you to see what the Wiimote can do. If anyone is playing that game for more then getting the highest scores and moving on then they're doing it wrong.

The Wii has it's Mario game (casual), it's Zelda game (casual crappy awful Gamecube port), a Smash Bros game (casual), Paper Mario (casual), Excite Truck (casual), Metroid (casual), Mario Kart (casual), Animal Crossing (casual)

The NES had it's Mario game (casual), Zelda (casual), Metroid (casual), Excite Bike (casual) etc...

The only game that Nintendo has ever tried that wasn't a casual based game was Lost Levels and not only did it never come to North America but they never made another game like that.

All their games can be picked up and played by anyone.

What can avid gamers do? Buy games and buy more then one console. That's what avid gamers do. In order to play all the available genres out there you need to own more then one consoles. It's always been that way too.

Since consoles have had the ability to play individual games there hasn't been a console that can do everything so if you're an avid gamer one console can't do it for you, you'll always be missing out on something

I think people over exaggerate the difference between hardcore and Casual.

I'm a casual gamer, that's just a fact. My friends and i are casual gamers. I however do NOT play garbage like Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

We play COD, gears, and sports games.

I even play fable and the like, but i'm not a hardcore gamer. I've had my xbox since launch and have yet to muster 10,000 gamerscore, and i have alot of games. i just dont play them alot.

Price had nothing to do with it, if price was a factor then the Gamecube would have won last gen.

The Wii isn't the first console to say it's for the family.

As far as Wii Fit? I expect every single hardcore gamer to have it because it's something new they haven't done before. You bring up Wii Sports but that's a pack in game that allows you to see what the Wiimote can do. If anyone is playing that game for more then getting the highest scores and moving on then they're doing it wrong.

The Wii has it's Mario game (casual), it's Zelda game (casual crappy awful Gamecube port), a Smash Bros game (casual), Paper Mario (casual), Excite Truck (casual), Metroid (casual), Mario Kart (casual), Animal Crossing (casual)

The NES had it's Mario game (casual), Zelda (casual), Metroid (casual), Excite Bike (casual) etc...

The only game that Nintendo has ever tried that wasn't a casual based game was Lost Levels and not only did it never come to North America but they never made another game like that.

All their games can be picked up and played by anyone.

What can avid gamers do? Buy games and buy more then one console. That's what avid gamers do. In order to play all the available genres out there you need to own more then one consoles. It's always been that way too.

Since consoles have had the ability to play individual games there hasn't been a console that can do everything so if you're an avid gamer one console can't do it for you, you'll always be missing out on something

Jaysonguy

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Price had nothing to do with it, if price was a factor then the Gamecube would have won last gen.

The Wii isn't the first console to say it's for the family.

As far as Wii Fit? I expect every single hardcore gamer to have it because it's something new they haven't done before. You bring up Wii Sports but that's a pack in game that allows you to see what the Wiimote can do. If anyone is playing that game for more then getting the highest scores and moving on then they're doing it wrong.

The Wii has it's Mario game (casual), it's Zelda game (casual crappy awful Gamecube port), a Smash Bros game (casual), Paper Mario (casual), Excite Truck (casual), Metroid (casual), Mario Kart (casual), Animal Crossing (casual)

The NES had it's Mario game (casual), Zelda (casual), Metroid (casual), Excite Bike (casual) etc...

The only game that Nintendo has ever tried that wasn't a casual based game was Lost Levels and not only did it never come to North America but they never made another game like that.

All their games can be picked up and played by anyone.

What can avid gamers do? Buy games and buy more then one console. That's what avid gamers do. In order to play all the available genres out there you need to own more then one consoles. It's always been that way too.

Since consoles have had the ability to play individual games there hasn't been a console that can do everything so if you're an avid gamer one console can't do it for you, you'll always be missing out on something

JLF1

You're wrong

You think Wii Sports is a real game?

Explain that one and then I'll answer the rest of where that's wrong

For now just explain how you think Wii Sports is a standard game

All games that Nintendo has ever made are games that a 4 year old can pick up and play with stories just as understandable.

Jaysonguy

Accessibility does not automatically mean a game is casual.Depth is something you seem to be ignoring.

Yes there is. They're all games that appeal to everyone and utilize easy-to-pickup gameplay.AlexSays

But games like Mario and Zelda deliver (relatively) deep and satisfying gameplay with lengthy adventures for their respective time periods,which cannot be said about games like Wii Fit or Brain Age.To imply that games like Wii Fit and Zelda are casual by using the same broad,generalizing standard that could be applied to many different things is absurd.

It's repeated trial and error. If that's difficult in your eyes then okay. AlexSays

Then according to your definition,there's no such thing as a "difficult" game in existence,because every challenge in a game can be defeated by use of restarting over and over again.And yes,Zack and Wiki count,too.

Price had nothing to do with it, if price was a factor then the Gamecube would have won last gen.

The Wii isn't the first console to say it's for the family.

As far as Wii Fit? I expect every single hardcore gamer to have it because it's something new they haven't done before. You bring up Wii Sports but that's a pack in game that allows you to see what the Wiimote can do. If anyone is playing that game for more then getting the highest scores and moving on then they're doing it wrong.

The Wii has it's Mario game (casual), it's Zelda game (casual crappy awful Gamecube port), a Smash Bros game (casual), Paper Mario (casual), Excite Truck (casual), Metroid (casual), Mario Kart (casual), Animal Crossing (casual)

The NES had it's Mario game (casual), Zelda (casual), Metroid (casual), Excite Bike (casual) etc...

The only game that Nintendo has ever tried that wasn't a casual based game was Lost Levels and not only did it never come to North America but they never made another game like that.

All their games can be picked up and played by anyone.

What can avid gamers do? Buy games and buy more then one console. That's what avid gamers do. In order to play all the available genres out there you need to own more then one consoles. It's always been that way too.

Since consoles have had the ability to play individual games there hasn't been a console that can do everything so if you're an avid gamer one console can't do it for you, you'll always be missing out on something

Jaysonguy

So you're saying a person should play games that don't even appeal to them just so they can call themselves "hardcore?" That's asinine.:|

Then according to your definition,there's no such thing as a "difficult" game in existence,because every challenge in a game can be defeated by use of restarting over and over again.And yes,Zack and Wiki count,too.

VGobbsesser

According to my definition there's very few difficult games, yes.

There's no trial and error in Zack and Wiki. You have to think of the next step logically.

You don't do that in Mega Man.

Calling games hard nowadays seems to be a childish way of feeling accomplishment for playing a game.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Price had nothing to do with it, if price was a factor then the Gamecube would have won last gen.

The Wii isn't the first console to say it's for the family.

As far as Wii Fit? I expect every single hardcore gamer to have it because it's something new they haven't done before. You bring up Wii Sports but that's a pack in game that allows you to see what the Wiimote can do. If anyone is playing that game for more then getting the highest scores and moving on then they're doing it wrong.

The Wii has it's Mario game (casual), it's Zelda game (casual crappy awful Gamecube port), a Smash Bros game (casual), Paper Mario (casual), Excite Truck (casual), Metroid (casual), Mario Kart (casual), Animal Crossing (casual)

The NES had it's Mario game (casual), Zelda (casual), Metroid (casual), Excite Bike (casual) etc...

The only game that Nintendo has ever tried that wasn't a casual based game was Lost Levels and not only did it never come to North America but they never made another game like that.

All their games can be picked up and played by anyone.

What can avid gamers do? Buy games and buy more then one console. That's what avid gamers do. In order to play all the available genres out there you need to own more then one consoles. It's always been that way too.

Since consoles have had the ability to play individual games there hasn't been a console that can do everything so if you're an avid gamer one console can't do it for you, you'll always be missing out on something

VGobbsesser

So you're saying a person should play games that don't even appeal to them just so they can call themselves "hardcore?" That's asinine.:|

If you're not up for playing everything you're not hardcore so then you wont be buying them

Problem solved.

You're wrong

You think Wii Sports is a real game?

Explain that one and then I'll answer the rest of where that's wrong

For now just explain how you think Wii Sports is a standard game

Jaysonguy

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]Then according to your definition,there's no such thing as a "difficult" game in existence,because every challenge in a game can be defeated by use of restarting over and over again.And yes,Zack and Wiki count,too.

AlexSays

According to my definition there's very few difficult games, yes.

There's no trial and error in Zack and Wiki. You have to think of the next step logically.

You don't do that in Mega Man.

Calling games hard nowadays seems to be a childish way of feeling accomplishment for playing a game.

No Offence but Zack and Wiki is a pure adventure game, the very definition of a trial and error game.JLF1

There's no trial and error in Zack and Wiki. You have to think of the next step logically. You don't do that in Mega Man.

AlexSays

"I can't damage this boss enough.My weapon isn't working that well.Wait...this boss is made of wood.Maybe if I use my magma blaster,I'll defeat him!"

Sounds like logical reasoning to me.

If you're not up for playing everything you're not hardcore so then you wont be buying them

Problem solved.

Jaysonguy

That's absolutely ludicrous.:|
Nobody is ever going to buy everything of every genre out there,period.Not everybody likes the same thing,and they shouldn't play games types they don't like.If they're dedicated to gaming,then they're "hardcore." Not this silly "You need to play everything" mantra.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]No Offence but Zack and Wiki is a pure adventure game, the very definition of a trial and error game.AlexSays

"I can't damage this boss enough.My weapon isn't working that well.Wait...this boss is made of wood.Maybe if I use my magma blaster,I'll defeat him!"

Sounds like logical reasoning to me.VGobbsesser

If the fact fire burns wood is the hardest thinking you have to do in the game, and you think that makes the game difficult, then alrighty.

I don't see what's so different with this game compared to any other adventure/puzzle game.JLF1

It's a puzzle game.

The only "adventure" aspect is moving to the next puzzle.

Can you explain how Zack and Wiki is anything like Zelda, and ACTUAL adventure game?

It's a puzzle game.

The only "adventure" aspect is moving to the next puzzle.

Can you explain how Zack and Wiki is anything like Zelda, and ACTUAL adventure game?

AlexSays

Zelda isn't an adventure game. Myst is.

Zelda isn't an adventure game. Myst is.JLF1

[QUOTE="JLF1"]Zelda isn't an adventure game. Myst is.AlexSays

Action-adventure,which is completely different.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]Zelda isn't an adventure game. Myst is.AlexSays

Zelda is an arcade adventure game and games like Zack and Wiki is nothing new.JLF1