Why do people keep saying the PS3 is hard to develop for in time and resources

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

you're very naive, alan wake wasn't worked on every single day for 5 years, There's too many things that go into games to think they constantly worked everyday on the project for 5 years, same with turismo. and why do people say this? because developers themselves have said its hard to develop for the ps3 and 360 and costs more $/thread

are you a Game Dev? how do you know?

I'll give you an easy answer.

When basically every dev has said the PS3 is hard to develop for then you can be pretty certain that it's hard to develop for.

you're very naive, alan wake wasn't worked on every single day for 5 years, There's too many things that go into games to think they constantly worked everyday on the project for 5 years, same with turismo. and why do people say this? because developers themselves have said its hard to develop for the ps3 and 360 and costs more $/thread

Microsoft1234

Indeed, people seem to think GT5 was Polyphonys only game in those 5 years.

are you a Game Dev? how do you know?

gugler990

PS3 has a different architecture and to take full advantage of it with knowledge lots of time is needed to make games look great.

Alan Wake went through major changes during and after the PC version was shot down.

Killzone 2, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, Gran Turismo 5, etc., were developed since the beginning of the PS3 and took more than 2 years for those games to come out.

you're very naive, alan wake wasn't worked on every single day for 5 years, There's too many things that go into games to think they constantly worked everyday on the project for 5 years, same with turismo. and why do people say this? because developers themselves have said its hard to develop for the ps3 and 360 and costs more $/thread

Microsoft1234

It has been repeatedly said that making the PS3 the lead platform, then porting it to the 360 will be much easier than trying to port from 360 to PS3. Blame it on the devs that still can't grasp that.

It has been repeatedly said that making the PS3 the lead platform, then porting it to the 360 will be much easier than trying to port from 360 to PS3. Blame it on the devs that still can't grasp that.

fend_oblivion

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

It has been repeatedly said that making the PS3 the lead platform, then porting it to the 360 will be much easier than trying to port from 360 to PS3. Blame it on the devs that still can't grasp that.

GeneralShowzer

Mutli-platform games make the most profit. A bit more dev time is nothing compared to the $$$ they can make by making it multiplat.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

It has been repeatedly said that making the PS3 the lead platform, then porting it to the 360 will be much easier than trying to port from 360 to PS3. Blame it on the devs that still can't grasp that.

fend_oblivion

Mutli-platform games make the most profit. A bit more dev time is nothing compared to the $$$ they can make by making it multiplat.

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

It has been repeatedly said that making the PS3 the lead platform, then porting it to the 360 will be much easier than trying to port from 360 to PS3. Blame it on the devs that still can't grasp that.

GeneralShowzer

But who told you that?

Have you not looked at the AAA QUALITY titles of 2009? Resident Evil, Batman, Street Fighter, Blazeblue, FIFA...those games sold more on the PS3.

Then there's a host of other AAA Quality games that sold close, like, ASSASSINS CREED for example.

Seems alot of people seem to still be stuck in 2007, maybe 2008. Times have changed now...along with the PS3's userbase.

I'll give you an easy answer.

When basically every dev has said the PS3 is hard to develop for then you can be pretty certain that it's hard to develop for.

treedoor

Because PS3 sucks at everything

WINDWAKER1

Yes but i mean, why would they waste resources to make the PS3 version better, when it sells a lot better on the 360. They would just offend their user base.GeneralShowzer

In most cases, the 360 version sells better than the PS3 version, but when the PS3 version of the same game sells a million + copies, you can't deny the profits the devs make. Eg : FF 13, AC 2, MW 2, GTA IV etc None of those games would sold that many copies if they were just made for the 360.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]Yes but i mean, why would they waste resources to make the PS3 version better, when it sells a lot better on the 360. They would just offend their user base.fend_oblivion

In most cases, the 360 version sells better than the PS3 version, but when the PS3 version of the same game sells a million + copies, you can't deny the profits the devs make. Eg : FF 13, AC 2, MW 2, GTA IV etc None of those games would sold that many copies if they were just made for the 360.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

It has been repeatedly said that making the PS3 the lead platform, then porting it to the 360 will be much easier than trying to port from 360 to PS3. Blame it on the devs that still can't grasp that.

Persistantthug

But who told you that?

Have you not looked at the AAA QUALITY titles of 2009? Resident Evil, Batman, Street Fighter, Blazeblue, FIFA...those games sold more on the PS3.

Then there's a host of other AAA Quality games that sold close, like, ASSASSINS CREED for example.

Seems alot of people seem to still be stuck in 2007, maybe 2008. Times have changed now.

I think a lot of the backlash regarding difficulty with the PS3 came from former PC-only developers that started migrating over to consoles this gen. Last gen a lot of PC developers started targeting consoles, but most of them went for the Xbox only and the Xbox basically was a PC. Now this gen with the Xbox 360 you can do things like you would on a PC and get decent results, but on the PS3 if you do you're dead in the water. It's not really any different than things were with the PS2 where you had a esoteric architecture and bad documentation, except this time Sony's not in first place so I guess some people felt they could get away with public complaints.

I don't follow sales closely, however from what i read in GS reports the 360 version sells a lot more. Take the highest selling game of 2009.GeneralShowzer

I suggest you do your reading in other sites. GS is...slow with their news...

Imagine if I make a popular IP that turns out to be a great hit and sells 4 million copies on the 360. If I had spent a little more money and had a bit more time to make it on the PS3, wouldn't it receive great reviews just like its 360 counterpart? Hence, PS3 only users can now buy that game and the sales of the PS3 version turns out to be 3 million. Now tell me, which is better - 4 million copies on the 360 (with a cheaper budget for development) , or 7 million copies from both 360 and PS3 (with a slighty higher budget for development)?

At the end of the day, devs don't care about loyalty. They care about sales, just like every businessman does.

Just ask Capcom about Monster Hunter Tri and why it got switched from the ps3 to the Wii

FFXIII team had to build it's own engine, took 4 years for that game to be churned out

well its a fact already learned

look just at how wmany developers make a exclusive game for ps3 and fall hard financailly

compared to those who still make games even after makinga wii game or 360 game

free radical-haze ps3

lair-midway?

and what ever factor5 made that sent them tothe bankruptcy officei know it was a ps3 game but dont have the name on hand

then yougot those who dont support ps3 as much

valve

rockstar theyas of late done more wii and 360 games then ps3 and360 being theirtop platform of choice in hd and wii for motion

so yaum

ps3 cell is much harder architecture then microsofts or nintendos the later is super easy money making it isnt even funny

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] Why would they put extra time on the PS3, when it wont sell nearly as good? GeneralShowzer

But who told you that?

Have you not looked at the AAA QUALITY titles of 2009? Resident Evil, Batman, Street Fighter, Blazeblue, FIFA...those games sold more on the PS3.

Then there's a host of other AAA Quality games that sold close, like, ASSASSINS CREED for example.

Seems alot of people seem to still be stuck in 2007, maybe 2008. Times have changed now.

Modern Warfare 2....right. But yes, of course it was going to sell more on the XBOX 360. Of course it was going to sell 3 million more copies. Microsoft had its own marketing campaign taylor made for the game tying it in with XBOX 360.

No one was going to believe the PS3 was going to sell more or sell really really close...not even the developers themselves. However, the PS3 sold 7 million units and the 360 sold 10 and the PS3 didn't have hardly any marketing campaign. If you know marketing at all...that might tell you something.

just judging from the massive changes the game has gone through over the years, my guess is it got delayed for other reasons

also GT5 was never delayed because of graphics

What I'm getting at is,

Something that's harder, by general rule, takes longer to accomplish.

But the XBOX 360 seems to take just as long to create its "ground breaking" games.

So, as far as I can see, the PS3 isn't harder....just different.

My observation.

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

Persistantthug

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

vaderhater

Just for clearification....when you say "on"....do you mean on...or do you mean "for"?

I'm asking because pretty much all games are made on PC's and/or Macs.

[QUOTE="vaderhater"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

Persistantthug

Just for clearification....when you say "on"....do you mean on...or do you mean "for"?

I'm asking because pretty much all games are made on PC's and/or Macs.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="vaderhater"]Wrong it was deved on PC first the engine is not Xbox 360 specific.

vaderhater

Just for clearification....when you say "on"....do you mean on...or do you mean "for"?

I'm asking because pretty much all games are made on PC's and/or Macs.

Ok....

Alright vaderhater, that is logic that I'm willing to digest....at least a bit.

I'm a reasonable Cow, I suppose. ;)

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

Persistantthug

EDIT- Notice to the fanboys/trolls, i clearly used "MOST", so there is no need to list games that YOU feel run well or better on PS3

Most devs have hundreds of developers working on the gamesSolarEclipze

Very very few projects will have more than 100 developers working on them. Even a studio like IW has under a hundred employees, and they're extremely well-funded.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

SolarEclipze

EDIT- Notice to the fanboys/trolls, i clearly used "MOST", so there is no need to list games that YOU feel run well or better on PS3

[QUOTE="vaderhater"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

Persistantthug

Just for clearification....when you say "on"....do you mean on...or do you mean "for"?

I'm asking because pretty much all games are made on PC's and/or Macs.

I'll give you an easy answer.

When basically every dev has said the PS3 is hard to develop for then you can be pretty certain that it's hard to develop for.

treedoor

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

SolarEclipze

EDIT- Notice to the fanboys/trolls, i clearly used "MOST", so there is no need to list games that YOU feel run well or better on PS3

I'm sorry,

But PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX 360 because it keeps showing this.

Until XBOX 360 shows otherwise, there's nothing tangible to argue.

XBOX 360 has some nice games, but truth is truth.

[QUOTE="SolarEclipze"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

It has somewhat recently come to my attention that the XBOX 360 is finally getting its first bonafide game that was taylor made and built specifically for the XBOX 360 complete with its own "built from the ground" game engine...a game that supposedly is going to "push" the XBOX 360's technical specs.

But this game, ALAN WAKE, it's taken 5 years to make.

This is a long time...just as its taken Gran Turismo 5 years.

I mean, if XBOX 360 is supposed to be "easier"....shouldn't a game like this, with Microsoft backing, be done in significantly less time?

Persistantthug

EDIT- Notice to the fanboys/trolls, i clearly used "MOST", so there is no need to list games that YOU feel run well or better on PS3

I'm sorry,

But PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX 360 because it keeps showing this.

Until XBOX 360 shows otherwise, there's nothing tangible to argue.

XBOX 360 has some nice games, but truth is truth.

Well the "what" it is showing is how well an exclusive game can look on an exclusive engine in a totally optimised situation like that. If you look at multiplats where there is no PS3 only optimised graphics engine you will see a lot of the time the PS3 does not do so well. One could argue that the 360 has yet to be optimised as much as the PS3 has been in this way.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="SolarEclipze"] Most devs have hundreds of developers working on the games..................Remedy is like 40 guys, thats why it has always taken them so long with all their games. Its not just Alan Wake. PS3 is "hard" to dev for because the cell is built to excel at stream processing. Games are mainly multipurpose programming, and game code doesnt break up well. This is why the majority of the time, games are better on 360 because its tough breaking up standard PC code to be run on SPUs. This is also why most PS3 exclusives have custom engines. They almost have to have an engine built for it in order to take advantage of its strengths, and minimize the weaknesses. Ive been try to tell cows this is the MAIN reason why PS3 has shown better graphics than 360 up until recently, it is NOT because the PS3 is "more powerful"

EDIT- Notice to the fanboys/trolls, i clearly used "MOST", so there is no need to list games that YOU feel run well or better on PS3

vaderhater

I'm sorry,

But PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX 360 because it keeps showing this.

Until XBOX 360 shows otherwise, there's nothing tangible to argue.

XBOX 360 has some nice games, but truth is truth.

Well the "what" it is showing is how well an exclusive game can look on an exclusive engine in a totally optimised situation like that. If you look at multiplats where there is no PS3 only optimised graphics engine you will see a lot of the time the PS3 does not do so well. One could argue that the 360 has yet to be optimised as much as the PS3 has been in this way.

What you are saying has some truth, but all I keep seeing are games like Splinter Cell 576p, and now Alan Wake (reported 576p)....and I'm willing to bet Halo Reach fails to be anything graphically great as well...I'd bet my car that it won't be a Console technical marvel.

At some point you have to just give up the fight and call a spade a spade.

I'm a cow, but I'm a reasonable one. If XBOX 360 had what PS3 had, I would readily admit it, but 4 1/2 years and it still doesn't....and supposedly on an easier to develop for system.

Sorry, but truth is truth, bro.

[QUOTE="vaderhater"]

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

I'm sorry,

But PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX 360 because it keeps showing this.

Until XBOX 360 shows otherwise, there's nothing tangible to argue.

XBOX 360 has some nice games, but truth is truth.

Persistantthug

Well the "what" it is showing is how well an exclusive game can look on an exclusive engine in a totally optimised situation like that. If you look at multiplats where there is no PS3 only optimised graphics engine you will see a lot of the time the PS3 does not do so well. One could argue that the 360 has yet to be optimised as much as the PS3 has been in this way.

What you are saying has some truth, but all I keep seeing are games like Splinter Cell 576p, and now Alan Wake (reported 576p)....and I'm willing to bet Halo Reach fails to be anything graphically great as well...I'd bet my car that it won't be a Console technical marvel.

At some point you have to just give up the fight and call a spade a spade.

I'm a cow, but I'm a reasonable one. If XBOX 360 had what PS3 had, I would readily admit it, but 4 1/2 years and it still doesn't....and supposedly on an easier to develop for system.

Sorry, but truth is truth, bro.

[QUOTE="Persistantthug"]

[QUOTE="vaderhater"]Actually he is totally correct in what he said. Look at it this way. You say it keeps showing this but what is it showing?

Well the "what" it is showing is how well an exclusive game can look on an exclusive engine in a totally optimised situation like that. If you look at multiplats where there is no PS3 only optimised graphics engine you will see a lot of the time the PS3 does not do so well. One could argue that the 360 has yet to be optimised as much as the PS3 has been in this way.

vaderhater

What you are saying has some truth, but all I keep seeing are games like Splinter Cell 576p, and now Alan Wake (reported 576p)....and I'm willing to bet Halo Reach fails to be anything graphically great as well...I'd bet my car that it won't be a Console technical marvel.

At some point you have to just give up the fight and call a spade a spade.

I'm a cow, but I'm a reasonable one. If XBOX 360 had what PS3 had, I would readily admit it, but 4 1/2 years and it still doesn't....and supposedly on an easier to develop for system.

Sorry, but truth is truth, bro.

Ok vaderhater,

If I accept this excuse, when will we get something acceptable?

How long do we have to wait for this "optimized" XBOX 360 engine? Its been 4 1/2 years bro. Do we have to wait another 4 1/2 years?

At some point the excuses have to stop. So when? I'm serious....when?