Why doesn't Nintendo broaden their audience?

They are by far the best developer in the history of video games. I understand at the time they created all these big franchises, gaming was seen as a kids' hobby but it is no longer the case in 2016.

Mario, Star Fox, Kirby, Yoshi, Pikmin etc all of these franchises seem geared to a similar demographics. They have slightly more "adult" franchises in maybe F-Zero, Fire Emblem and Metroid but I feel there is a huge chunk of the population Nintendo downright ignores.

Sony has much less IP's but their demographics seem more diversified.

Ratchet & Clank, Jak, Sly, LPB

Uncharted, TLOU

Killzone, Resistance

Gran Turismo, MLB The Show

God of War, Infamous

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus

Demon's Souls, Bloodborne

Then you include the likes of Socom, Syphon Filter, Twisted Metal it seems pretty much everybody is covered. They have varied genres and a varied public. Nintendo on the other hand seems focus solely on kids friendly and family oriented games.

Their games have top notch gameplay but 99% of them have basic stories with little to no character development. None of their games try to go beyond just being "fun". Why not make a game with a compelling story/writing like 2K Games did with Spec Ops The Line? Or try something thought-provoking?

Some will claim "this ain't" Nintendo but that's my point. This isn't the early 90's where only kids play(or are perceived). Nintendo is stuck with that old mentality.

Some of us are just no longer interested in Mario and Pokemon. I'll play these games every once in a while but they won't make me buy a system. Not when they're only what that system has to offer.

I honestly think Nintendo is trying with stuff like Splatoon and Bayonetta, but honestly I think their family friendly outlook is holding them back from really expanding into new genres and ips

Bayonetta is a good example but it's not owned by Nintendo.

Splatoon again falls in the kids/family category.

How is Splatoon broadening their audience?

Broaden their audience? List the genres Nintendo covers.

The genres doesn't change the demographics. Mario Kart, Splatoon and Pikmin are all different genres but they cover the same demographics.

Gears of War and Splatoon are the same genre but they sure as hell won't appeal to the same people.

Ya Bayonetta is awesome, but I dont give Nintendo 100% credit on that one. Splatoon was awful, but at least they were trying out new types of games and ips. If they got out of the family friendly bubble then maybe they could move into different audiences

First real online shooter for Nintendo, but I agree they need some less family friendly material, they are kinda saturated

Nintendo has titles that cover every single one of those demographics except for sim driving games (like Gran Turismo). They have platformers, adventure games, shooters, sports games, beat them ups, RPGs, and more, one to match each game in your list outside the driving sims.

You choosing to ignore them for whatever reason doesn't make that a fact. Maybe you should broaden up a bit.

@Juub1990:

Not true at all. Adults look beyond the coat of paint.

Mature visuals aren't realistic visuals

I didn't mention genres. I mentioned demographics. Splatoon is the same genre as Gears of War, do you think it is targeted to the same audience?

Gears and Splatoon are very different type of shooters; particularly in that one is good and the other is Gears of War.

According to who? So you dictate what an adult is?

Gears of War is rated M and Splatoon is rated E. Like it or not they do not cover the same demographics. Does that mean that Splatoon is bad? No it doesn't. It simply means a colorful shooter featuring kids with paint guns will not appeal to the same people as another third person shooter with a gritty and violent universe. Doesn't make one better than the other, it just means they target a different audience.

Simply ask yourself, is Splatook kids/family friendly/oriented? Is Gears of War?

They tried NUMEROUS freaking times. Be it failure on their part, or "mature" gamers viewing them negatively since Nintendo's loss of Rare to Microsoft and for that matter, the GameCube until 2006-onward, it never works. So they stick to what they know in the E-T area.

This is a rather poor argument; particularly in it's black and white thinking in various levels of the argument. Is it possible that a kid who wants ultra violent gore multiplayer game would be interested in Gears but not Splatoon? Sure. But the same could be made of a guy looking for a strategy RPG or a driving sim. And if you are a person that does not have those very specific set of variables (maybe you simply want a competitive online shooter), then Splatoon would fit in perfectly in that audience; and would in all likely hood win against Gears for many different reasons that do not have to do with the inclusion of gore effects.

Did they? I remember Eternal Darkness which was reportedly very good but under-performed.

I remember Geist as well which was ok.

What else?

@Juub1990:

Logic. For example, a more colorful palette doesn't make a painting less mature. Nintendo shapes their visuals very well. The bright colors compliment gameplay. Elements within the game world are labelled based on color. This tells the player what elements are what and how to react to them throughout the game. Over time, the controls become second nature, and that improves the connection with the game. That's mature visual design.

Yeah sure, there are kids who love violent games as there are adults who like games like Yoshi's Wooly World. What does that change though? The fact that kids can love Gears of War doesn't mean it is geared towards them. Nothing will prevent them from enjoying it but it changes nothing. Are we gonna act like a movie like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly targets the same people as Fievel to the West?

Wow, Eternal Darkness and Geist were way over a decade ago. Nintendo has released a ton of other stuff since then, heck they published two M-rated games on Wii U last year (Fatal Frame and Bayonetta)

Perfect Dark - From when they still had Rare and it was the only success they had in this department. Everything since, from Eternal Darkness to Bayonetta 2 (yes, the series is not Nintendo owned, but they threw money into development of the game, so it still somewhat counts) has been nothing but failure.

Neither are owned or made by Nintendo. You may as well mention Arkham City, Watch_Dogs or COD.

That's good visual design. I don't know where you got the mature from.

I also never said anything about maturity. Uncharted isn't any more mature than Zelda. I mentioned audience. I mean would it be appropriate to show Mortal Kombat to a 6 year old kid? Does Netherrealm think about children when making their games? They do not because their games are not targeted towards children. Does Nintendo think about children when making their games? Obviously they do because their games are targeted to children and family.

It changes your premise. You ask why Nintendo doesn't broaden their audience, that they don't offer games like the ones you listed. They do, in every single case (except, again, driving sims, which I agree they should have an equivalent). They have games with compelling writing, there was a whole storm over how one of their games got translated in the West. You have this perception of Nintendo only producing games aimed at kids, and Nintendo is indeed famous for that due to their work in the 80's and early 90's; but it's simply not their actual problem now. Nintendo has problems; but they have a very broad selection of games for a very broad selection of audiences, that is something they don't have to worry about as much as other real deficiencies (like third party support and infastructure).

My premise has not changed at all. It remains the same. Nintendo ignores a big chunk of the gaming world because pretty much all of their franchises are geared towards children/family. For example I know many of my friends who simply find no appeal in Nintendo's games be it that they are too colorful and kiddy or there is an utter lack of proper storytelling that includes concepts going beyond what the average child can understand. I also have yet to play a single Nintendo game with a good story outside of Golden Sun and that was over 10 years ago.

What are their biggest games at the moment on the Wii U for example? Splatoon, Mario Kart, Smash, a few Super Mario games and Xenoblade Chronicles X. Aside from Xenoblade Chronicles X, the other games are more or less targeted to a similar audience. Sure, Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart are two completely different genres but they'll attract a similar demographic and that demographic will be very different than the one from TLOU.

What are the Nintendo games with a compelling story/narrative you speak of?

Cause they rode that fisher price toy called the WII for too long.

Still waiting for an Eternal Darkness sequel, might even except an HD version.

Fatal Frame is ok, but ED stood out the most on the GC for me. More so then Mario Zelda and Metroid.

In terms of actual game design, I'd argue Nintendo games go far beyond being "just fun". I find that their target audience matters little when they design games as excellently as they have been doing.

I get what you mean, though. It is baffling to see them completely ignore the kind of demographic that is growing in popularity by the day. I'd like to see them try something ballsy like Eternal Darkness again (or at least go back to Metroid proper). Xenoblade has been a step in the right direction.

Thank you, that's exactly what I mean.

I'm sick and tired of people downplaying aesthetics in excusing and justifying Nintendo's approach in many of their game's directions. It's as if to say Finding Nemo is the same as The Godfather films because both deal with loss and mature themes. Aesthetics are crucial, they are not relegated as so inconsequential as many Nintendo apologists would have you believe in what they strive to attrace in terms of demographics. Visuals matter. Style matters.

They have a broad selection of games for a VERY broad selection of games? Really?? From what I'm seeing:

So where's their games like TLoU? Realistic racers? Darker themed adventures? Games like Journey? Like The Last Guardian? Sports games? Where are they? Show me. Nintendo's games can appeal to all ages....that does NOT MEAN they are targeted at all demographics or they are covering all the bases. People like darker games. Games that cover all flavors and emotions, and no, aesthetics should not be downplayed in that role. Can you not identify a similarity in all the above pictures, and come to acknowledge that it's a problem when Nintendo is the only one supporting their ecosystem??

They are doing a SHIT JOB of reaching out beyond their little safe bubble to attract those who DON'T find appeal in the same old shit they shovel in every fucking game they make. Bright, vibrant colors. Aesthetics ARE important. You can dismiss them all you want, and then continue to watch Nintendo shrink and become more and more niche, and then sit there befuddled as to why, eventually blaming the consumer for it when it's staring you straight in the face and the responsibility lies with this company that can't do something different to save their lives.

What Nintendo is doing is the DEFINITION of NICHE!! This is so fucking tiresome!

@MirkoS77: Metroid, the Mother series, Zelda Twilight Princess, Zelda Majora's Mask, Pikmin 3, Kid Icarus, Fire Embelm all these deal with dark themes, emotions, all that jive. Im sure im missing some.

Wario deals with greed, passion, and determination.

So does spongebob, that doesnt make it adult

Ren & Stimpy does as well, it's a cartoon, is it meant for kids?

Kid Icarus deals with dark themes? I don't think we played the same game, man.

Sure, all those other games you mentioned do, but the way they go about those dark themes? There's always a kid-friendly nature to those games, a feeling that they're targeted at younger audiences and made more welcoming toward them. Even when they're dealing with these darker themes, they're toned down in terms of how hard or raw they are with their writing and presentation.

Also: "Wario deals with greed, passion, and determination". You're just kidding yourself now. I mean, sure, on paper it does, but can you really say that about Wario? Wario is a passionate, determinate and greedy character, but the Wario games themselves do not deal with any of that. That's just incidental.

You guys are diving into the specifics and technicals to make it look like Nintendo target a broader audience in terms of demographics, whereas what you're saying is only true on paper.

@khoofia_pika: With Kid Icarus i was considering the whole dark mythology and the whole Dark Pitt theme.

But yeah, as a dark adult only game, i dont think Nintendo has one. Not sure if they ever will either, but maybe they do in the future.

ITT: People assuming Nintendo is trying to reach to the "mature" gamer.

Again, that's just on paper. It's either incidental, or is dealt with in the typical Nintendo kid-friendly way.

I just want to make it clear, though, that I'm not bashing on them. I'm a huge Nintendo apologist, and as I said in my first post in this thread, I personally do not care what audiences they appeal to, because their games are designed to perfection. But let's not pretend that Nintendo games deal with dark themes, or that if they do, they do it in any meaningful way that makes them less kid-friendly than they are.

Hell, even Pokemon X/Y dealt with some pretty dark themes, but at the end of the day, it's still good old, kid-friendly, happy-go-lucky Pokemon.

@khoofia_pika: I think thats how majority of games are though. Most games i play that are dark arent super dark. I mean monsters that kill? Nintendo has it. We dont really have real dark things i guess. Its fake kinda dark things. We dont have real cars doing dark things, or real weapons, etc.

Something tells me, with NX they will.

That is very far away from the truth.

Even on a superficial level, Nintendo try to stay away from the "darker" tone of video games.

What implies that they aren't?

The Cartoon Graphics? That's just your bias showing.

@LegatoSkyheart: The aesthetics, the themes, the characters, the atmospheres. Everything.

you miss the point, just because it deals with a topic doesnt make it inherently adult

@Juub1990: The diff between a E and M rated games is pretty much the gore ... everything else is pretty much the same.

Like Zelda with blood is pretty much what is Darksiders ... imagine Mario when he stumps on Goombas and Koopas and the would splat blood everywhere ... there you have a M rated game just because of that.

Remove blood and all the sexy pose for teen and you pretty much have a modern version of Double Dragon

Well you also gotta include profanity, drug use, alcohol/tobaco, sexuality, adult themes and other things. Halo for example is rated M but has no blood(maybe a bit?) or gore.

They try... then they kind of don't at the same time. It's strange Nintendo will spend money to acquire right to a franchise like Fatal Frame, pay money to develop games in the series, then fail to release the games outside Japan, and when they did they didn't do it in a timely fashion and they failed to give it adequate publishing support. People speculate Nintendo didn't do it because they were afraid they'd waste money if the game doesn't sell. That'd make sense but the same thing could have been said about Devil's Third and yet they published that in very small batches to be safe.

Maybe their most successful outreach was through Platinum Games to make Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101, great games. I'm a little worried about their work on Star Fox though, but hope for the best anyways. I wish Nintendo would let them make a Metroid game.

I think Nintendo was thinking outside the box when they had Team Ninja come on board to do Metroid Other M. I really liked the game, I think there was unjustly panned by critics and automaton gamers. Most the criticisms too stem from design choices from Nintendo's end, not Team Ninja's. I wish Nintendo would have saw it fit that they let Team Ninja keep working on Metroid games, just without Sakamoto's interference.

Nintendo and Platinum Games and success? That's a laugh. If anything, that has been another failure given how bad Bayonetta and Wonderful 101 have sold.

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

― C.S. Lewis

Bayonetta 2 sold about a million copies on a system with about 7 million users when it released, 12-13 million userbase now, versus the 2 million the first game sold on PS3/X360 with a combined userbase of just over 70 million at the time the game was released. On Wii U it sold 1/2 the sales with 1/10th the userbase. And regardless of how they sold, they're just excellent games that break from Nintendo's typical line-up of first party games. And personally, if it wasn't for that game I probably wouldn't have bought a Wii U.

Nintendo doesn't try and create games with deep and compelling storylines because its too much work and they are cheap asses.

Nintendo's choice of palette and overall cutesy visual design is a deliberate attempt at appealing to a younger demographic, no different than Pixar.

Nintendo's main focus has always been for their games to appeal to children and young teens. They really don't give two shites about gamers in the 18 - 35 age bracket.

@Juub1990: @MirkoS77:

Nintendo has games with heavy emphasis in storytelling like Until Dawn (Hotel Dusk, Trace Memory), cinematic action games like Uncharted (Disaster: Day of Crisis, Kid Icarus), hack and slash beat them ups like God of War (Bayonetta, Reginlev), non-Splatoon military shooters (Metroid Federation Force, Battalion Wars), adventure puzzle games like Ico and Last Guardian (every Zelda), real time RPGs (Lats Story, Xenoblade), turn based RPGs (STEAM, Fire Emblem), and a billion sports games with and without Mario in them.

Nintendo is certainly not lacking in breadth of titles.

They gotta worry about the little children that buy their systems man, that family friendly image is a must

@Juub1990: the vast majority of M rated games are because of Blood and Violence way more than the use of the F bomb at repetition or because of sex scene ( I can only think of Heavy Rain, Until Dawn, Witchers and GTA having sex or erotic scene )

And yes in Halo it is rated M because of blood, violence and mild language