Why I don't like Microsoft as a company

[QUOTE="Zodetak"]

I fully respect the Xbox360 as a console, what i don't like is how it came to be, and why its here. Please take the time to read

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX

This article shows microsofts business strategies and propaganda. I know it wraps around directx and opengl, but if you read the entire thing you'll understand the cycles that microsoft uses.

Teufelhuhn

Every game I've played (crysis,warhead,metro) that uses dx10/11 have been considerably buggier in my experiance than any dx9 games that I can recall.

Is that an issue with dx10/11 or with developers not being as stringent with quality control?

[QUOTE="garrett_daniels"][QUOTE="Zodetak"]This article shows microsofts business strategies and propaganda. I know it wraps around directx and opengl, but if you read the entire thing you'll understand the cycles that microsoft uses.kuraimen

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

I don't understand why people don't realize every major company does this

Brownesque

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

I don't understand why people don't realize every major company does this

Brownesque

Then tell me why i gotta wait for updates for my android phone to come through my phone company. oh the open standard thing can go both ways its so open that skyhook decided to sue google because google told companies that in order for you to have the android marketplace on your phone that it has to use googles proprietary maps feature. But open standards only go but so far but i just look at it for what it is BUSINESS. Microsoft did something that i am happy about that linux cant do and apple wont do and that is have a unified platform for my pc without me thinking about fracturing the market also something that android is dealing with as we speak.

put it this way, microsoft strategy to make money is through: live first to get dlc crazy loads of advertising took previous playstation popular exclusives kinect overpriced exclusive peripherals sony's strategy to make money: release different varieties of games games games Im not saying 360 got no games but you have to be really blind to notice that ms dedication to 360 doesn't really focus much on gamesjohnlennon28

Really sony's strategy for the ps3 was to saturate the market for blu-ray anything else you think was delusional propaganda that shows that most people who have a ps3 bought it when it finally came out with games 2 years later and finally decided to get serious about their online but their main strategy was to get blu-ray players into homes and it worked except for one problem UPDATES. IF your blu-ray player doesnt get updates then its just a expensive dvd-player

[QUOTE="johnlennon28"]put it this way, microsoft strategy to make money is through: live first to get dlc crazy loads of advertising took previous playstation popular exclusives kinect overpriced exclusive peripherals sony's strategy to make money: release different varieties of games games games Im not saying 360 got no games but you have to be really blind to notice that ms dedication to 360 doesn't really focus much on gamesVipa37

Really sony's strategy for the ps3 was to saturate the market for blu-ray anything else you think was delusional propaganda that shows that most people who have a ps3 bought it when it finally came out with games 2 years later and finally decided to get serious about their online but their main strategy was to get blu-ray players into homes and it worked except for one problem UPDATES. IF your blu-ray player doesnt get updates then its just a expensive dvd-player

put it this way, microsoft strategy to make money is through: live first to get dlc crazy loads of advertising took previous playstation popular exclusives kinect overpriced exclusive peripherals sony's strategy to make money: release different varieties of games games games Im not saying 360 got no games but you have to be really blind to notice that ms dedication to 360 doesn't really focus much on gamesjohnlennon28

You're right, it focuses on the total experience, while having a large and varied library.

personally, I wish Microsoft never entered the console market. Fuhgeddabouditt

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]personally, I wish Microsoft never entered the console market. lawlessx

Online gaming on consoles would be nowhere without live. PSN still isn't at that level after years of playing catchup.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]

I dont understand why MS gets singled out

gamer-adam1

In one way or another all major companys are the same, everyone wants to control the market because it gets them more money. MS is no different from Sony, Google, ISP providers, Cell Phone providers, Facebook, Twitter, and the list goes no

I forgot to mention, Apple, Sony, and Nintendo all use OpenGL, which is what the article in the OP is about.

The only platform that uses a proprietary graphics API is Microsoft. Everything, and I mean everything else uses OpenGL.

I forgot to mention, Apple, Sony, and Nintendo all use OpenGL, which is what the article in the OP is about.

Brownesque

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] And some of those posts are also totally wrong there's a guy saying that there are no tools for developers on OpenGl when there clearly are and he is also saying that it will take 500 years to make something equivalent to the UE3 when companies like idSoftware do all games on OpenGL including the highly anticipated and graphical monster that is going to be Rage. So yeah those commenters are probably part of the FUD sponsored campaign by M$.kuraimen

lol I love that your still maintaining-There are these fanboys on here because there are fanboys this proves my point and any dissenting facts or opinion are infact wrong because there are fanboys. and no...those were points you brought up, daniels said nothing about tools or 500 years. he made legitimate complaints about the article.

""OpenGL is better for cross-platform development because it can be re-used on the PS3 and Wii (their APIs are derived in part from OpenGL but desktop OpenGL code simply can't be carried straight across without extensive modification).""

that being just one of them, And instead of disproving him you posted what I said you made broad statements about comments you found wrong in the comments section of the article and tried to pass that off as though it proved daniels wrong...As I said you said this basically... "there are fanboys in the comments therefor because there are fanboys in the comments making baseless claims this proves any dissenting opinion and fact wrong.""

I personally thank My Microsoft overload masters for the mind control implants they have put in my brain so I can never buy a product other then they'res or program on a platform or code base they didn't make....

If OpenGL is this godsend programming platform then it will be used...otherwise OpenGL was destroyed because OpenGL Developers dropped the ball for something on 6 years often with no real updates in a years time, OpenGL was thoroughly surpassed by DirectX year after year and without a complete and utter overhaul It won't catch up....But yes please continue to claim some how Microsoft used pure marketing and FUD to some how kill off OpenGL...ignore the fact that DirectX surpassed OpenGL and started Offering a better product which more and more developers started using.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]personally, I wish Microsoft never entered the console market. tempest91

Online gaming on consoles would be nowhere without live. PSN still isn't at that level after years of playing catchup.

Wait...so you are saying that playing online on the xbox is different/better than psn? As far as ive been able to tell once your in the game the online is the same.

Then again, i play on pc.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] These guys are wrong, so the facts put forth by your points are completely false because those guys are wrong. That's what I just read...nothing you said disputed facts or gave light to anything, you simply pointed out some fanboys and from that platform made out that any dissenting opinion or fact is wrong.WilliamRLBaker

lol I love that your still maintaining-There are these fanboys on here because there are fanboys this proves my point and any dissenting facts or opinion are infact wrong because there are fanboys. and no...those were points you brought up, daniels said nothing about tools or 500 years. he made legitimate complaints about the article.

""OpenGL is better for cross-platform development because it can be re-used on the PS3 and Wii (their APIs are derived in part from OpenGL but desktop OpenGL code simply can't be carried straight across without extensive modification).""

that being just one of them, And instead of disproving him you posted what I said you made broad statements about comments you found wrong in the comments section of the article and tried to pass that off as though it proved daniels wrong...As I said you said this basically... "there are fanboys in the comments therefor because there are fanboys in the comments making baseless claims this proves any dissenting opinion and fact wrong.""

That's why I said some of those posts as in not all that they say is without basis. Yes the portability between consoles is not a copy-paste job but all the other points are wrong specially the one you and others insist on and that is that OpenGL is inferior. It is ironic that you ask for proof and then you go on to say that OpenGL needs a complete overhaul to catch up when a game like Rage, as good looking as the best and even surpassing most games this gen, is possible with it. I recommend that you practice what your preach next time.

I don't understand why people don't realize every major company does this

I personally thank My Microsoft overload masters for the mind control implants they have put in my brain so I can never buy a product other then they'res or program on a platform or code base they didn't make....

If OpenGL is this godsend programming platform then it will be used...otherwise OpenGL was destroyed because OpenGL Developers dropped the ball for something on 6 years often with no real updates in a years time, OpenGL was thoroughly surpassed by DirectX year after year and without a complete and utter overhaul It won't catch up....But yes please continue to claim some how Microsoft used pure marketing and FUD to some how kill off OpenGL...ignore the fact that DirectX surpassed OpenGL and started Offering a better product which more and more developers started using.

WilliamRLBaker

Do people realize that MS released a faulty console knowingly out onto it's gamers just so it could get it out a year ahead and before Xmas ahead of it's competitors?! Do people even care how controlling MS is with it's systems by making you buy everything to do with it only from them?! Don't people realize how bad they are to charge people $60 to play online so they can monopolize DLC content and other things in the gaming world?! Do people realize how they take way too long to fix serious problems with their software and hardware and don't care how this affects their consumers?!

There are things you simply can't do in HTML (and even HTML 5) that you can do in Flash or Silverlight...

HTML is a markup language, once the page is loaded that's it, you can't "inject" new code or variables.. With Flash for instance you don't have that problem.

/end mini rant

karasill

Yes because HTML alone wasn't designed to do everything Flash or Silverlight were. If the full extent of your knowledge about web development outside of Flash/Silverlight is HTML though, I am sorry to say you're a very unskilled web developer.

How about Javascript or CSS? Most things people abuse Flash for can be done just with HTML, Javascript, and CSS (flash menus for instance).

personally, I wish Microsoft never entered the console market. Fuhgeddabouditt

Do people realize that MS released a faulty console knowingly out onto it's gamers just so it could get it out a year ahead and before Xmas ahead of it's competitors?! Do people even care how controlling MS is with it's systems by making you buy everything to do with it only from them?! Don't people realize how bad they are to charge people $60 to play online so they can monopolize DLC content and other things in the gaming world?! Do people realize how they take way too long to fix serious problems with their software and hardware and don't care how this affects their consumers?!

clr84651

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]personally, I wish Microsoft never entered the console market. lhughey

I'd be perfectly happy were gaming culture not becoming download only and thus something we can't own, but only "license".

[QUOTE="lhughey"][QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]personally, I wish Microsoft never entered the console market. Aidenfury19

I'd be perfectly happy were gaming culture not becoming download only and thus something we can't own, but only "license".

[QUOTE="Aidenfury19"]

[QUOTE="lhughey"] Well forget about PSN then, cause it would be trash without LIVE pushing the marketohthemanatee

I'd be perfectly happy were gaming culture not becoming download only and thus something we can't own, but only "license".

I'm sure it was not, although it may have actually started with Sega.

I'm not a fan of they way they treat Free Xbox Live users or their terrible first party, that's about it, the OSs they make are great.FIipMode

If by great you mean late, overpriced, and underperforming sure.

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]I'm not a fan of they way they treat Free Xbox Live users or their terrible first party, that's about it, the OSs they make are great.Aidenfury19

If by great you mean late, overpriced, and underperforming sure.

I didn't read everything, but I also think OpenGL is faster than DirectX. Furthermore, you can use hardware functions more efficient under OpenGL (as was the case with the GameCube's TEV pipeline fixed pixel shaders). I think Linux and OpenGL would be a better choice of gamers than Windows and DirectX because they are faster and free.

"... being crushed by a monopolistic attack from a monolithic corporate giant trying to dominate an industry..."

1. Netscape
2. Linux
3. IBM OS2 warp
4. Hell who can keep track of all the companies that Microsoft has crushed in a NON COPETATIVE WAY!

Microsoft has used its influence to domanate and keep its domanence. YEP people fell it necessory to defend Microsoft, while at the same time Microsoft .... takes advantage of those who come to their defence with high prices.

That's why I said some of those posts as in not all that they say is without basis. Yes the portability between consoles is not a copy-paste job but all the other points are wrong specially the one you and others insist on and that is that OpenGL is inferior. It is ironic that you ask for proof and then you go on to say that OpenGL needs a complete overhaul to catch up when a game like Rage, as good looking as the best and even surpassing most games this gen, is possible with it. I recommend that you practice what your preach next time.

kuraimen

The only things you said were consistant claims that Microsoft some how killed openGL with fud and Micro$oft without any proof of it, Once daniel made his points your only reply was that because certain people were making claims in the comments on the original Article that he was wrong, and Any dissenting opinion or fact was wrong.

Please every one in the thread before my Microsoft Overload masters post please point out to me where I made any comments against OpenGL or Comments for DirectX please point out where I did anything but Disagree with Kuraimen conistant maintaining that because fanboy comments were on the article that meant any dissenting opinion was wrong.

as well why is it you equate overhaul=power..etc? Overhaul couldn't mean options, ease of use, appeal to a wider amount of developers?....Then again its odd how you are supporting an article and then your own opinion that some how Microsoft killed openGL with fud and marketing and lies yet there are developers that still use it meaning its not dead as you claim...Id being one that has always used OpenGL and the fact they made rage actually some how proves OpenGL is this amazing god send Programming platform....Some how Microsoft has used mind control to make so many more developers use DirectX instead...

I didn't read everything, but I also think OpenGL is faster than DirectX.
nameless12345

Furthermore, you can use hardware functions more efficient under OpenGL (as was the case with the GameCube's TEV pipeline fixed pixel shaders).
nameless12345

Nope. D3D11 currently has the most up-to-date mapping of API features to hardware features. It used to be that extensions were the earliest way to get access to new hardware features, but that's no longer the case since D3D10. OpenGL has absolutely nothing to do with GameCube or any other console hardware.

I think Linux and OpenGL would be a better choice of gamers than Windows and DirectX because they are faster and free.

nameless12345

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

That's why I said some of those posts as in not all that they say is without basis. Yes the portability between consoles is not a copy-paste job but all the other points are wrong specially the one you and others insist on and that is that OpenGL is inferior. It is ironic that you ask for proof and then you go on to say that OpenGL needs a complete overhaul to catch up when a game like Rage, as good looking as the best and even surpassing most games this gen, is possible with it. I recommend that you practice what your preach next time.

kuraimen

The only things you said were consistant claims that Microsoft some how killed openGL with fud and Micro$oft without any proof of it, Once daniel made his points your only reply was that because certain people were making claims in the comments on the original Article that he was wrong, and Any dissenting opinion or fact was wrong.

Please every one in the thread before my Microsoft Overload masters post please point out to me where I made any comments against OpenGL or Comments for DirectX please point out where I did anything but Disagree with Kuraimen conistant maintaining that because fanboy comments were on the article that meant any dissenting opinion was wrong.

as well why is it you equate overhaul=power..etc? Overhaul couldn't mean options, ease of use, appeal to a wider amount of developers?....Then again its odd how you are supporting an article and then your own opinion that some how Microsoft killed openGL with fud and marketing and lies yet there are developers that still use it meaning its not dead as you claim...Id being one that has always used OpenGL and the fact they made rage actually some how proves OpenGL is this amazing god send Programming platform....Some how Microsoft has used mind control to make so many more developers use DirectX instead...

Funny how you ask for proof with regards to what the blogger said and not for what the poster without any links said. I'm pretty sure you probably didn't even read the blog post since you failed to see where the guy provided links to proof that Microsoft was trying to kill OpenGL from their system which would have meant a certain death. What is the counter-proof? yeah figures...

Microsoft has a pretty agressive FUD campaign against Linux too and they didn't manage to kill it but they certainly manage to weaken it. Do you even know what FUD means? It appears you are on purpose making yourself ignorant to win the argument. When you want a serious debate let me know.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

The only things you said were consistant claims that Microsoft some how killed openGL with fud and Micro$oft without any proof of it, Once daniel made his points your only reply was that because certain people were making claims in the comments on the original Article that he was wrong, and Any dissenting opinion or fact was wrong.

Please every one in the thread before my Microsoft Overload masters post please point out to me where I made any comments against OpenGL or Comments for DirectX please point out where I did anything but Disagree with Kuraimen conistant maintaining that because fanboy comments were on the article that meant any dissenting opinion was wrong.

as well why is it you equate overhaul=power..etc? Overhaul couldn't mean options, ease of use, appeal to a wider amount of developers?....Then again its odd how you are supporting an article and then your own opinion that some how Microsoft killed openGL with fud and marketing and lies yet there are developers that still use it meaning its not dead as you claim...Id being one that has always used OpenGL and the fact they made rage actually some how proves OpenGL is this amazing god send Programming platform....Some how Microsoft has used mind control to make so many more developers use DirectX instead...

alexside1

Funny how you ask for proof with regards to what the blogger said and not for what the poster without any links said. I'm pretty sure you probably didn't even read the blog post since you failed to see where the guy provided links to proof that Microsoft was trying to kill OpenGL from their system which would have meant a certain death. What is the counter-proof? yeah figures...

Microsoft has a pretty agressive FUD campaign against Linux too and they didn't manage to kill it but they certainly manage to weaken it. Do you even know what FUD means? It appears you are on purpose making yourself ignorant to win the argument. When you want a serious debate let me know.

I fully respect the Xbox360 as a console, what i don't like is how it came to be, and why its here. Please take the time to read

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX

This article shows microsofts business strategies and propaganda. I know it wraps around directx and opengl, but if you read the entire thing you'll understand the cycles that microsoft uses.

Zodetak

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

The only things you said were consistant claims that Microsoft some how killed openGL with fud and Micro$oft without any proof of it, Once daniel made his points your only reply was that because certain people were making claims in the comments on the original Article that he was wrong, and Any dissenting opinion or fact was wrong.

Please every one in the thread before my Microsoft Overload masters post please point out to me where I made any comments against OpenGL or Comments for DirectX please point out where I did anything but Disagree with Kuraimen conistant maintaining that because fanboy comments were on the article that meant any dissenting opinion was wrong.

as well why is it you equate overhaul=power..etc? Overhaul couldn't mean options, ease of use, appeal to a wider amount of developers?....Then again its odd how you are supporting an article and then your own opinion that some how Microsoft killed openGL with fud and marketing and lies yet there are developers that still use it meaning its not dead as you claim...Id being one that has always used OpenGL and the fact they made rage actually some how proves OpenGL is this amazing god send Programming platform....Some how Microsoft has used mind control to make so many more developers use DirectX instead...

alexside1

Funny how you ask for proof with regards to what the blogger said and not for what the poster without any links said. I'm pretty sure you probably didn't even read the blog post since you failed to see where the guy provided links to proof that Microsoft was trying to kill OpenGL from their system which would have meant a certain death. What is the counter-proof? yeah figures...

Microsoft has a pretty agressive FUD campaign against Linux too and they didn't manage to kill it but they certainly manage to weaken it. Do you even know what FUD means? It appears you are on purpose making yourself ignorant to win the argument. When you want a serious debate let me know.

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Funny how you ask for proof with regards to what the blogger said and not for what the poster without any links said. I'm pretty sure you probably didn't even read the blog post since you failed to see where the guy provided links to proof that Microsoft was trying to kill OpenGL from their system which would have meant a certain death. What is the counter-proof? yeah figures...

Microsoft has a pretty agressive FUD campaign against Linux too and they didn't manage to kill it but they certainly manage to weaken it. Do you even know what FUD means? It appears you are on purpose making yourself ignorant to win the argument. When you want a serious debate let me know.

WilliamRLBaker

I get modded for bashing Microsoft figures... this place is a joke.