Why is Bioshock Infinite so overrated and Metro Last Light so underrated?

one of my biggest problems with Infinite is how much importance is placed in the ending, I would have liked more story exposition and character development done through gameplay.

for example, after you rescue Elisabeth it's not reflected at all in anyway other than narrative. She just finished partially transporting an entire lab and your telling me she can't do anything more impressive than summon the same turrets, freight hooks and robots? She should have been killing shit on her own with Tears.

When she first witnesses booker Kill, it's a major issue for her however this isn't reflected in the gameplay at all either, it would have been nice to see her expand more.

I think when I first started infinite I was fairly impressed with how they handled her ai, how she didn't just follow you and instead seemed to posess her own form of intelligence, it's a pity it was all smoke and mirrors.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="TheDevKit"]

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly, there's multiple Songbirds. He is a constant, not a variable. Songbird has abilities akin to that of Lutece device, not Elizabeth. The assumption that Songbird has these abilities is enforced by Bookers failure to rescue Elizabeth from Columbia in all instances except those in which he received intervention from the Luteces.

 

TheDevKit

Substitute hand wave with "I didn't understand this particular moment in the game," and we've gone full circle with this thread.

[QUOTE="TheDevKit"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] And really "constants and variables" is the biggest and most irritating hand wave in the game....simply put, "constants and variables" was the writers way of saying "don't ask why, don't question the sense of it, just go with it". With this hand wave, the ending becomes arbitrary and it becomes forced. Hell, it even contradicts the notion of the word, Infinite. The story is clearly flimsy and not well put together, so the writers have to resort to forcing their narrative through cheap tactics. And the story shows clear signs of changes and rush jobs...the story looked and was explained far differently in 2011 than it is now. It goes to show that instead of having a clear vision all throughout development, they decided to make drastic narrative changes during, maybe late in development and it shows. At first it was Liz who was supposed to have the nosebleeds. Metro Last Light on the other hand, doesn't handwave its most important aspects of the plot, and while it does have its share of flaws, doesn't undermine in the end the delivery of its themes. It also looks like there was a consistent vision as what was shown at E3 two years ago was in the final game. And Metro Last Light's story isn't even finished (Metro 2035).texasgoldrush

Substitute hand wave with "I didn't understand this particular moment in the game," and we've gone full circle with this thread.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="TheDevKit"]

Substitute hand wave with "I didn't understand this particular moment in the game," and we've gone full circle with this thread.

mems_1224

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Then not nearly as bad as mass murder being shown as a redemptive act. texasgoldrush

infinite needed some stealth elements, it became so run and gun. Alternative paths could have really helped with the monotonous nature of the gameplay. I was really hoping they would have expanded upon the original bioshock in that regard.

[QUOTE="Charcharo5"]Comparing these two games would be pretty silly IMO. However I will try. Will start from the most technical aspects: not want to still touch on themes, though I wil give it some thought. My personal opinion? So far Last Light is my favourite game of the year. I really liked Infinite, though.texasgoldrush

one of my biggest problems with Infinite is how much importance is placed in the ending, I would have liked more story exposition and character development done through gameplay.

for example, after you rescue Elisabeth it's not reflected at all in anyway other than narrative. She just finished partially transporting an entire lab and your telling me she can't do anything more impressive than summon the same turrets, freight hooks and robots? She should have been killing shit on her own with Tears.

When she first witnesses booker Kill, it's a major issue for her however this isn't reflected in the gameplay at all either, it would have been nice to see her expand more.

I think when I first started infinite I was fairly impressed with how they handled her ai, how she didn't just follow you and instead seemed to posess her own form of intelligence, it's a pity it was all smoke and mirrors.

ReadingRainbow4

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="mems_1224"] Isn't that what Artyom is? I killed a ton of people during Metro LL. Most of them were assassinations because the AI was hilariously terrible.ReadingRainbow4

infinite needed some stealth elements, it became so run and gun. Alternative paths could have really helped with the monotonous nature of the gameplay. I was really hoping they would have expanded upon the original bioshock in that regard.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="mems_1224"] No it doesnt mems_1224

[QUOTE="Charcharo5"]Comparing these two games would be pretty silly IMO. However I will try. Will start from the most technical aspects: 1. Technology. From a pure visual fidelity standpoint (not style) Last Light annihilates/curbstomps/obliterates Infinite. Physics-wise, it is the same. However, sound quality in both is of such a high caliber that I can not compare. Now lets see where things are not clear cut, namely AI. Infinite's AI is not all that great. The enemies use simple squad tactics and are overall average when it comes down to inteligence. I'd say a little above what CoD usually has in its campaign. HOWEVER, it is quite mobile in traversing the often complex environment of Infinite. Stealth does seem to not work in almost any way or form. Last Light has generally good battle AI. Enemies, whilst not the sharpest tools in the shed, do understand squad tactics and even things such as baiting. They are not who knows how mobile in combat, though they get around about as well as Infinite's enemies. Pursuing the player however is usually their weak point. Stealth detection IS NOT part of the AI. They were programmed to not see the player under X amount of light, so I cant hold it against the game's AI. Their search for Artyom is actually a real occurence and is usually a very well realized action... though nothing revolutionary. Mutants are, well good for what they are. Nothing exceptional like in STALKER, but do not seem stupid. Where Infinite does trump Last Light's AI is with the companions. Metro is not bad here, but Infinite is actually quite good with Elizabeth's AI (though unfortunately not as spectacular as was promised). 2. Style and story. Both games are absolutely brilliant in their chosen styles. Everything, from the brightness of Columbia, to Metro's surreal useage of Blue Shift is stunningly good and both games keep their look and feel extremely well and it does add to their atmosphere. This is personal preference ONLY, because both games are masterpieces here. Now as for story... damn this will be hard. The simplest way I can put it is the Last Light is a game that creates a world, fleshes out the world and simply makes it exciting misterious and believable. The devs have some advantages here because they have an EXTREMELY rich source material, including the previous game, 3 novels and 38 spin-off novels on top of what they can think of. The actual plotline is very good, although I have some criticism on a certain female character and on some 15 minutes near the end of the game, where things just happen TOO fast and some otherwise badass characters get chewed out too quickly. Infinite, whilst it does also make a decent attempt at a world has some serious flaws. For an example, those first 50 (in my case at least) minutes of the game when Booker is expierencing Columbia feel great at first... but unfortunately every NPC has 2-3 animations and 3 lines and then they turn into static manequins... almost like a museum. Also, kinda like in Last Light Infinite also has problems with its pacing, but this time it is the oppsoite, too slow. The middle part of the game, some elements near the ending and a certain boss battle just harm the game's real star. The story of Elizabeth and Booker which whilst having some similariities to Artyom's journey (BTW again well done, though it has the problem of partially relying on objects one must find in the backgroud *facepalm* :( ) is truly where the storyline is at its best. 3.Gameplay: It is getting harder and harder. Gameplay of both games has some ups and downs. My biggest gripe with Infinite is not that it is simplified nor the unisteresting powers. It is how the game has some elements that harm the package somewhat. Combat in Bioshock is pretty much against humans/human monsters. This is fine, but in a game that supposedly treats violence and humanity as one of its major themes, well it lacks. The game is devaluing the opponents by rushing too many of them and in almost arcade-like fashion against the duo. They do not feel like human soldiers... they are just like less-memorable imps from DooM or Serious Sam. Too many, rarely having anything interesting to say out of combat and with no unique gameplay value. Same can be said for your "allies" at one point in the game. Infinite would have done better with slightly (only slightly) less combat and more interaction with these guys (a good example here is RTCW from 2001, the soldiers there had weight to them). At times it feels as if they knew most people need shooting every 2 minutes in order to stay engaged and just threw combat where they could. (Note that I do know there are long sections in the game with no combat, but they are again like a walk through a museum). Last Light has a different problem. Too much handholding and animation time. The gameplay is fine, even though I believe humans should at least see you when you are 30 cm in front of them... Still what I mean is that there are entire sections in the game which take control of the player for no reason at all. Fine for a first run, but the game does not allow you to skip em when wanting to just replay the level. And some stupidly placed invisible walls. Why not allow me to see the other side of the crashed train, game? I mean, the big steel door there is closed, I cant escape, I just wanna see the little train from another angle. No says the game, those extra 5 meters of space shant be granted. :P Now I do not want to still touch on themes, though I wil give it some thought. My personal opinion? So far Last Light is my favourite game of the year. I really liked Infinite, though.texasgoldrush

Outside of human conception murder isn't erroneous. 

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] I guess you didn't get the good ending in Metro Last Light.......mitu123

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="mems_1224"] Both of the endings are pretty bad. Charcharo5

Which one is canon?....we have to wait for Metro 2035. The reason the bad ending in 2033 was canon is because it was canon in the book.

The good ending here, however, wraps up the story far better.

[QUOTE="Charcharo5"][QUOTE="mitu123"]But which one is the worst?:o

texasgoldrush

Which one is canon?....we have to wait for Metro 2035. The reason the bad ending in 2033 was canon is because it was canon in the book.

The good ending here, however, wraps up the story far better.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

[QUOTE="Charcharo5"] Well, the ending in which **** SPOILER**** Artyom and the rest all die as they detonate the depot part of D6 also killing the Red army. Anna is telling her child the story of her dad, Artyom and the Dark Ones are saved, promissing to return and save humanity.Charcharo5

Which one is canon?....we have to wait for Metro 2035. The reason the bad ending in 2033 was canon is because it was canon in the book.

The good ending here, however, wraps up the story far better.

[QUOTE="Charcharo5"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

Which one is canon?....we have to wait for Metro 2035. The reason the bad ending in 2033 was canon is because it was canon in the book.

The good ending here, however, wraps up the story far better.

texasgoldrush

I enjoyed both games greatly. But if I absolutely had to pick which was better, Metro: Last Light takes the gold home. I honestly think MLL is the best looking game to date, BSI is no where near to that level.indecay

first post, revives a tgr thread

texas is that your new alt?

Both are great games, but I also give a slight edge to Metro LL.

I love both, therefore I win.

[QUOTE="indecay"]I enjoyed both games greatly. But if I absolutely had to pick which was better, Metro: Last Light takes the gold home. I honestly think MLL is the best looking game to date, BSI is no where near to that level.Krelian-co

first post, revives a tgr thread

texas is that your new alt?

Bioshock infninite changed gaming forever by copying city17 and Alyx Vance. It's tacticool.