Why Japan's Game Industry is Falling Behind

Gamespot article

This is an interview of Director Hiroaki Yura who has worked on various games in the past, including Diablo III, Valkyria Chronicles, and Soul Calibur IV.

"Firstly, Japan doesn't share information. That's the first problem. The point is, companies don't want to share information, they don't want to share engines, they don't want to share stuff at CEDEC (Computer Entertainment Developers Conference), which is like the GDC of Japan, but really badly run. They just boast about what they've done, not the challenges they've overcome, the secrets they've learned. They don't want to be overtaken by their competitors.

Japan still thinks of itself really as the only people who make video games, which is not true. Their rules only apply to Japanese people. So if they find out something, they don't want to share it. It's also because of company property, compliance, company protocol. They're three very different things, but they all mean the same in the end. So you're not allowed to show stuff, you're not allowed to talk about stuff, and you keep whatever the company owns as company property. Therefore you don't share it.

The problem is, because of this, the programmers are bad at Unity. They're kind of okay at Unreal [Engine], but they're still not very good. And now they'll say, "Oh, Unity is the shit right now" but in actual fact, Unity's not so hot anymore in the rest of the world. Now Unreal 4 is hotter. And we're just set behind. I think... I don't know. I mean, Japan has very good planning. They're very organized. Also, designing the games, it's very fun. But the problem is the programming doesn't keep up, the animation's not so good. Funny that we have a whole anime industry. But that's based on different technology."

People here may not be familiar and knowledgeable on what GDC is and what it offers but to people who are interested in game development it is like a gold mine. People from different fields even in psychology share their knowledge and ideas and all of this is of course in English in which most of the Japanese don't understand. I don't even think there are Japanese translation of the keynotes from GDC. This is the power of the English language network in which Japan isn't a part of but a lot of countries are.

No offense but Japan is just too got damn conservative that it hurts them.

Can't really blame them , when they look at the west copying each other.

How many games copied the fight mechanics from Batman AA?

What about games being made to sell to the COD crowd?

I dont think theyre falling behind at all, Splatoon, Monster Hunter 4, Legend of Zelda 3D, Yokai Watch Busters, Yoshi Woolly World etc have been great games released for 2015.

@Ant_17: He means techwise, not game design.

@locopatho: How can you tell?

@Ant_17: He specifically mentions engines at length, and also says "designing the games, it's very fun. But the problem is the programming doesn't keep up, the animation's not so good."

He flat out says tech is the issue, not design.

@locopatho: Isn't game mechanics tech?

Not sure how this fits the System Wars category. Should probably be moved to GD.

@Ant_17: No.

Man, you just love making this same topic over and over again, don't you?

For your information this article was created on August 12, 2015 and there is no thread about the interview. Feel free to lock this thread if it doesn't suit to your interest. I was an avid Nintendo fan back then and defended from critics of Japan but now that I "actually" live in Tokyo and know the language, I've seen more things. I don't want to spout the positive things about Japan because it's already widely known. What's not known are Japanese problems.

I saw the date, and I am not locking this. I'm just constantly amused by your insistence on telling us the same thing every couple of days.

Well, he's not lying that's for damn sure

Ha, kind of a funny statement considering most anime inherently has shit animation. Most of the art styles that are typically categorized as "anime" are born from the need (want) to do cheap, or "lazy" animation. Yes there are exceptions, don't get all weeboo crazy on me bros.

But yeah, I can believe the rest of it. Japan has some damn great game designers, but they've been lagging on the technical end for almost a decade now.

Good thing Unreal Engine 4 is free, Praise gaben.

Japan was a hell of alot worse shape last gen, they are coming along now. Not saying they are doing good now, but last gen was terrible for them.

UE 4 has done real good in the japanese development side I think. Things will only get better. The conservative nature hurts them but it is also what keeps their games fresh imo. That's because since they have to find things on their own, the solution to various problems can greatly differ resulting in some cool stuff.

Yet another "Japan is doomed" thread?

Well, we have been having these kind of threads ever since the ps3/360 generation began, I think most people are used to them as a result to that.

People like the combat in Batman and the flow of Call of Duty.

So what exactly is the problem there?

Really? Is that why they've been releasing a lot of great games this gen.

No wonder the Souls series look like they were released in mid 90's.

Considering the huge amount of hate that Call of Duty receives I can safely say there quite a lot of people that hate absolutely everything about the modern Call of Duty games. What I personally hate about the western gaming industry though are all these "cinematic cover based third person shooters". Those games are pure cancer.

The only Call of Duty I'm aware of that recieved large amounts of hate was Ghosts. Pretty much all of these games are still well received and sell millions.

Doomed? lol you're so sensitive. Japan will continue to churn out great games for you. No need to worry.

Horrible argument, why would we ignore decades upon decades of Japanese devs ripping ideas from each other to begin with?

Well the West has diverse and original indie games for those who hate cinematic games. Where are the numerous great Japanese indie games on the other hand? They are supposed to be the masters of 2d game design but they haven't made any great 2d games lately except for Nintendo alone compared to Western indie devs with Ori and The Blind Forest, The Swapper, Super Meat Boy, FEZ, Braid, etc.

I wouldn't act shocked if someone told me the Japanese business mindset is creating more barriers than it is overcoming. Still, Japanese devs tend to bring games which are noticeably distinct be it in design, gameplay, art... They're good at what they do, you can't deny that.

I'm still gonna continue buying Japanese games.

Imagine if they actually change their business mindset they would have churned out even more awesome games. Japan can learn something from the booming game dev in Europe. I personally would say learning English and joining the English network along with USA, Canada, EU, etc. would be a great start. Learning another language other than your own is really eye-opening and opens up a whole new world. That's what I've experienced by learning the Japanese language.

@lordlors: okay a) You learned Japanese? That's awesome!

b) Yeah, English is the Lingua Franca of the world, it wouldn't hurt for more devs to know it so as to communicate better with Western devs. At the same time, I wouldn't like Japanese devs to lose their individual touch and become a lot alike the Westerners.

Did you even read the post before posting?

Like I already mentioned in a similar thread months back, there are Japanese engines in development that are more advanced than both Unity and Unreal Engine 4. For example, Mizuchi Engine, Luminous Studio, and The Tomorrow Children engine. The demos released for these engines so far look very promising, graphically blowing away anything from the West. After all, it was a Luminous Studio tech demo from Square Enix that was used to demonstrate DirectX 12. This whole idea of Japan being behind in technology is itself an outdated myth. That may well have been the case last gen, but certainly isn't this gen, especially when the most impressive tech demos are coming from Japan.

Also, the article makes it sound as if Japan hasn't adopted UE4 yet, even though there are already a lot of Japanese games in development with UE4, and some already released. Japanese developers may have been slow to adopt UE3 last gen, but they've been quick to adopt UE4 this gen, thanks to Epic having a branch in Japan which provides great tech support, thus overcoming a lot of language barrier issues.

@Jag85: Square Enix Europe involved in those projects and the engines you mentioned are exclusive like Fox Engine, no advantage for small indie Japanese industry. I'm seeing *** indies on Steam lately. They're trying to use Unreal 4 and Unity 5. I heard FFXV will use Just Cause 3 tech.Most of the best looking Sony games are from West. Well graphics don't make games but still Japan pacing is slow when it comes to tech. Look at Souls games.

Just Cause 3 tech is there only to implent the airship in the game.

Japan should adopt CryEngine 3 & Source 2 as well. Imagine Capcom make Dino Crisis using this engine!

The Japanese design is behind in programming and pushing their own tech. yet they will prioritize their own tech over widely available engines like unity and unreal in many cases.

Then you have the target of either only the japanese market, or mobile, which if you have a good brand name the latter is almost no risk high profit.

They also can't compete in most but not all cases in the immersion and AAA aspect that the other devs are going for.

I mean one main difference is tech demos, there are Bullshot tech demo videos, and there are actual game demos running on the engine and then having actual games produced for it to show the tech, while Japan seems to go mostly for the former, of course this only applies to the JP devs that actually can produce good looking games.

In the result, I mean the final game I get see, I don't see a problem with Japan on that matter.

Like Running-Target said, Just Cause 3 tech is only being used for the FFXV airships. Otherwise, FFXV is running on Luminous Studio engine, which is being developed at Square Enix Japan. And so far, Luminous Studio has the best-looking tech demos, like the one they demonstrated at the DX12 conference.

CryEngine 3 is more advanced than UE4, but UE4 is more user-friendly, so it's unlikely CryEngine 3 would be as widely adopted. Also, Epic has a Japanese branch, Epic Games Japan, to promote UE4 to Japanese developers and provide tech support. On the other hand, Crytek doesn't have a Japanese branch like Epic does, so it's unlikely we'll see a lot of Japanese developers adopting CryEngine 3.

Sounds about right.

If falling behind gets me amazing games like Valkyria Chronicles, Xenoblade Chronicles, Bravely Default and Nintendo in general then keep on falling behind Japan, I'm so glad the west is giving me such great games like Assassin's Creed 15: yes this one isn't broken and Halo 45.

P.S some sarcasm at the Halo part.

They aren't falling behind per se more like they are transitioning into mobile. Consoles have been irrelevant over there for almost or more than a decade. Handhelds and casual games dominate in Japan different market.

next

Pretty much. The domestic Japanese market, for the most part, just doesn't care that much about big-budget AAA console games anymore. That's why so many Japanese companies are unwilling to invest big budgets in AAA console games, since there isn't much of a domestic market left for such games. They could just target overseas markets, but that would be riskier than targeting the domestic market.

Back in the PS1 & PS2 days, Japanese developers were able to create AAA console games and expect them to be hits both in Japan and abroad. Nowadays, Japanese developers are forced to choose between (or find a balance between) the domestic Japanese market (who generally favour mobile/handheld games) and the overseas Western markets (who generally favour console/PC games).

tech demos don't mean anything if you can't get something out of it, for example FXIII's engine. The tech demos for that, nothing looked like it in the games it created.

Wasn't a thread about Japan's game faillings made around January by the OP?

One main reason for Japans "downfall" is this delusion that there was domination in the first place (outside hardware)

When the Genesis, a best selling console, released, the game changed, the SNES, while dominated by japanese releases, also had a great number of western games, including best sellers, but the Genesis was the exact opposite, Western games owned that console. When the Saturn, N64, and Playstation came out, a lot of the biggest selling games on the PSX were western games, and western games usually sold more. A game like Rugrats Search for Reptar sold more than a lot of the "popular Jrpgs, and japanese shooting type games together combined, and that was considered a small title.

N64 was dominated by western games. Nintendo was basically the only japanese developer on the system (hyperbole), outside of them it was basically empty.

PS2/Xbox were also dominated by western games, Xbox especially, and here lies the problem.

People believe that from the 90's to the mid 2000's the industry was dominated by japanese games. This nonsense makes people think that starting with Xbox/xbox 360 everything randomly and quickly became lopsided, that is not true, it was something that had been occurring for a large period of time and was already happening, the only reason why it seemed like a quick change was once the PC genre's and mechanics came to console players a lot of it was either new, or because of the hardware, could finally create gameplay elements consoles had problems achieving before, so that gave a large amount of mindshare to western games at an extremely quick pace.

But again, truth was that it was already happening. Again, western games were big things, and a lot of peoples surprise is from thinking all of this only started at the end life of the Xbox and the launch of the 360, that doesn't make sense. Japanese developers weren't doing anything to hold out the growth, and a ton continued using the same types of mechanics for years without realizing that they were falling behind because a lot of them were in their comfort zones.

Why, I'll take a shot at it:

• They love tooting their own horn - Japanese gamers tastes in games and their mediums are shifting so much that Japanese developers pandering to their domestic gaming base at the expense of alienating the foreign market.
• PS3 and Wii - the PS3 was a hard and complex machine for smaller independent Japanese developers to make games for and would require lots of time, money, resources. On the other hand, the Wii had an explosion in the growth among users, but they only bought Nintendo games, didn't give a damn about third party content. There was only one market really to make games, that's portable platforms of course, and that's what we got, and that's what we have now. But likely, the lull in the market created by these two machines probably saw their developer victims off to the breadlines.
• They're making exclusive games and not even getting paid for it. Let's face it, port your games on more systems, you make more money. Except, lots of Japanese companies, even those with the resources for it, they seem content making games exclusive. Okay, fine, makes sense for studios without resources to make multiplatform titles, it's expensive. But, many are capable of porting games to other systems and just simply don't. And they're not even getting paid to limit its availability. Such a waste.
• This goes for both Japanese and Western developers alike, but outsource porting instead of having the talented studios waste time on re-releases. Keep them free to work on higher priority projects/releases.
• Not all western developers are equal. I saw this a bit last gen, Japanese devs teaming up with American teams and it not working out, and the problem only makes too much sense at first glance. Say, Konami hiring an untested western dev to do Silent Hill: Homecoming because they wanted the series's notoriously ad combat mechanics to be ironed out by a western developer. Or Capcom who hired Sparks Unlimited to do Lost Planet 3 after their horrendous projects doing Legendary and Turning Point Fall of Liberty. Picking Slant Six to do Operations Raccoon City could have been better, could have been worse too, but again they could have gone with a tested studio for results. I think Capcom struck gold with Blue Castle (whose work at the time was small but positive at that point, mainly The Bigs), who now handles the Dead Rising games since Dead Rising 2 onward, now it's Capcom Vancouver. I know Japanese gamers don't play western games and all, but if they're in the business, and scouting western talent to work with, they should probably play more western games to know who to reach out to (and who not to for that matter). But, after mistakes of their past, you think Capcom would know better than to hire a maker of iPhone and iPad games to make the RE Revelations 2 to the Vita port, no surprise it's awful; it's like they wanted it to fail.

@kingstablewar:

Is the Japanese gaming industry in crisis?

"In 2002, it is estimated that Japan accounted for nearly 50% of the world's gaming market. That has now fallen to around 10% and without Nintendo, with the success of the Wii console, the figure would be even lower - around 8%."

Also, the best-selling game on nearly every console up until the early 2000s was from Japan:

List of best-selling video games

• Atari 2600 - Pac-Man
• ColecoVision - Donkey Kong
• NES - Super Mario Bros
• Mega Drive - Sonic the Hedgehog
• SNES - Super Mario World
• Saturn - Virtua Fighter 2
• PS1 - Gran Turismo
• N64 - Super Mario 64
• Dreamcast - Sonic Adventure
• GameCube - Super Smash Bros Melee
• Wii - Wii Sports

Well, their game design is still the best.