Why Microsoft Usually Doesn't Respond To SONY's Repeated Claims of PS3>X360?

in terms of which console is more powerful, how come SONY is usually the one doing the talking when most multiplats look better on X360?

does Microsoft's silence on this matter mean;

a) MS acknowledging the PS3 is more powerful than X360.

b) MS taking the high road.

c) Major Nelson's 2005 charts = 'Nuff said

Mystery_Writer

It means that actual games are more important than "on paper" superiority. Today, there is no question about which one has a better game line-up right now.

PS3 might be worth buying in a few years. I just hope it has some BC left by then.

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

excelR83

Hm, it seems someone doesn't know how to read.

The 360 does have three times the "general purpose processing" power if you define that processing as the kind that cannot be done on the DSPs. Of course, it's severely lacking in floating point performance when compared to the PS3, which is duly noted in the next graph.

Are those ratings unbiased? heck no. If you really wanted to make a point, complain about the bandwidth graph: Adding up the 256GB/s of internal memory in the GPU will not give you a worthwile result.

[QUOTE="Vorserider2"][QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

Titus_WoWplayer

I find that funny as well! Those numbers are completely incorrect considering the Cell can more than double the amount of calculations the 360 can do.

HAHAHAHAHA

ummm yes, but thats not general purpose calculations, general purpose calcs are used ofr AI and al like, while what the cell does is good at say physics when programmed correctly and it is good at detcetcing and changing irragulations...i belive there is a program made for that purpose already...oh yeah folding at home. lol...stil can't beat the 360 general purpose cpu strength...ppl really need to learn to read and learn the tech stuff they want to talk about.....lol

Yeah, I do know tech stuff, and I know a lot of it. What do you mean physics done correctly? Do you not know tne SPEs in the PS3 work in parallel and create more than just physics (IE reactions, situations). The cell does more than detect and change irregulations , it creates the scene with having each SPE do something at once.

[QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

Grive

Hm, it seems someone doesn't know how to read.

The 360 does have three times the "general purpose processing" power if you define that processing as the kind that cannot be done on the DSPs. Of course, it's severely lacking in floating point performance when compared to the PS3, which is duly noted in the next graph.

Are those ratings unbiased? heck no. If you really wanted to make a point, complain about the bandwidth graph: Adding up the 256GB/s of internal memory in the GPU will not give you a worthwile result.

I never checked the link you provided, but I will state one fact. The Cell on the PS3 is being used to replace super computers. as matter of fact, there was an artilce on GS that said some scientist used 8 PS3's that he got from Sony for free to replace his super computer. If Xenos or whatever it's called is more powerful, then what isn't it being used instead of the Cell? The cell is definitely more powerful acoording to many resources. what people speculate about is the GPU of both consoles which is about the same on both, but if you combine the GPU of the PS3 with the Cell ( the cell can generate graphics and also does AA) you get a more powerful system as far as graphics go. The proof is in the Games. The exclusieve games on the PS3 LOOK much better than anything on the 360, and please don't bring Gears up because I have it on the PC and it's not better looking than Uncharted, R&C or Heavenly Sword.

Why respond? If MS responds to Sony's comments that would only prove Sony's point really:roll:...The more MS ignores Sony, the more convinced people become on which console they'll buy. Ignoring FTW!!!!DeadMan1290

No, M$ knows that the PS3 is more powerful so they don't even want to take that route.

[QUOTE="Grive"][QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

MotoRacer81

Hm, it seems someone doesn't know how to read.

The 360 does have three times the "general purpose processing" power if you define that processing as the kind that cannot be done on the DSPs. Of course, it's severely lacking in floating point performance when compared to the PS3, which is duly noted in the next graph.

Are those ratings unbiased? heck no. If you really wanted to make a point, complain about the bandwidth graph: Adding up the 256GB/s of internal memory in the GPU will not give you a worthwile result.

I never checked the link you provided, but I will state one fact. The Cell on the PS3 is being used to replace super computers. as matter of fact, there was an artilce on GS that said some scientist used 8 PS3's that he got from Sony for free to replace his super computer. If Xenos or whatever it's called is more powerful, then what isn't it being used instead of the Cell? The cell is definitely more powerful acoording to many resources. what people speculate about is the GPU of both consoles which is about the same on both, but if you combine the GPU of the PS3 with the Cell ( the cell can generate graphics and also does AA) you get a more powerful system as far as graphics go. The proof is in the Games. The exclusieve games on the PS3 LOOK much better than anything on the 360, and please don't bring Gears up because I have it on the PC and it's not better looking than Uncharted, R&C or Heavenly Sword.

If you went on to read about the PS3 being a "supercomputer" you'd have seen the PS that admitted that the PS3 was only a replacement for a supercomputer under specific circumstances as it lacks other necessary abilities. Not that the article is complete rubbish, but don't read into it that it some how is lightyears better than everything from the 360 to PC's.

And, once more...PS3 supporters resort to telling us how superior their "numbers" are rather than being able to point to games that actually prove it....then when they do try to point to games they have to use rubbish like Lair and Heavenly Sword.

Come back when you've got some "scoreboard" rather than "recruiting reports".

[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"]Why respond? If MS responds to Sony's comments that would only prove Sony's point really:roll:...The more MS ignores Sony, the more convinced people become on which console they'll buy. Ignoring FTW!!!!MotoRacer81

No, M$ knows that the PS3 is more powerful so they don't even want to take that route.

They may. But tell me, if YOU were MS and I was Sony. And I was bragging about how my PS3 was so powerful and blah blah RROD blah. Would you attack me back stating ''I have more sales than you, I have more games than you'' etc.....What do you think will happen? Battle of the biggest? Really PS3 IS more powerful than 360, it IS more reliable YES. But, responding to these comments(like I said) would only prove Sony's right and MS' wrong. Don't you think?

[QUOTE="Titus_WoWplayer"][QUOTE="Vorserider2"][QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

Vorserider2

I find that funny as well! Those numbers are completely incorrect considering the Cell can more than double the amount of calculations the 360 can do.

HAHAHAHAHA

ummm yes, but thats not general purpose calculations, general purpose calcs are used ofr AI and al like, while what the cell does is good at say physics when programmed correctly and it is good at detcetcing and changing irragulations...i belive there is a program made for that purpose already...oh yeah folding at home. lol...stil can't beat the 360 general purpose cpu strength...ppl really need to learn to read and learn the tech stuff they want to talk about.....lol

Yeah, I do know tech stuff, and I know a lot of it. What do you mean physics done correctly? Do you not know tne SPEs in the PS3 work in parallel and create more than just physics (IE reactions, situations). The cell does more than detect and change irregulations , it creates the scene with having each SPE do something at once.

ps3 SPEs don't work in parallel lol!!!

[QUOTE="MotoRacer81"][QUOTE="Grive"][QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

RojAvon

Hm, it seems someone doesn't know how to read.

The 360 does have three times the "general purpose processing" power if you define that processing as the kind that cannot be done on the DSPs. Of course, it's severely lacking in floating point performance when compared to the PS3, which is duly noted in the next graph.

Are those ratings unbiased? heck no. If you really wanted to make a point, complain about the bandwidth graph: Adding up the 256GB/s of internal memory in the GPU will not give you a worthwile result.

I never checked the link you provided, but I will state one fact. The Cell on the PS3 is being used to replace super computers. as matter of fact, there was an artilce on GS that said some scientist used 8 PS3's that he got from Sony for free to replace his super computer. If Xenos or whatever it's called is more powerful, then what isn't it being used instead of the Cell? The cell is definitely more powerful acoording to many resources. what people speculate about is the GPU of both consoles which is about the same on both, but if you combine the GPU of the PS3 with the Cell ( the cell can generate graphics and also does AA) you get a more powerful system as far as graphics go. The proof is in the Games. The exclusieve games on the PS3 LOOK much better than anything on the 360, and please don't bring Gears up because I have it on the PC and it's not better looking than Uncharted, R&C or Heavenly Sword.

If you went on to read about the PS3 being a "supercomputer" you'd have seen the PS that admitted that the PS3 was only a replacement for a supercomputer under specific circumstances as it lacks other necessary abilities. Not that the article is complete rubbish, but don't read into it that it some how is lightyears better than everything from the 360 to PC's.

And, once more...PS3 supporters resort to telling us how superior their "numbers" are rather than being able to point to games that actually prove it....then when they do try to point to games they have to use rubbish like Lair and Heavenly Sword.

Come back when you've got some "scoreboard" rather than "recruiting reports".

lol ya

[QUOTE="Vorserider2"][QUOTE="Titus_WoWplayer"][QUOTE="Vorserider2"][QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

Titus_WoWplayer

I find that funny as well! Those numbers are completely incorrect considering the Cell can more than double the amount of calculations the 360 can do.

HAHAHAHAHA

ummm yes, but thats not general purpose calculations, general purpose calcs are used ofr AI and al like, while what the cell does is good at say physics when programmed correctly and it is good at detcetcing and changing irragulations...i belive there is a program made for that purpose already...oh yeah folding at home. lol...stil can't beat the 360 general purpose cpu strength...ppl really need to learn to read and learn the tech stuff they want to talk about.....lol

Yeah, I do know tech stuff, and I know a lot of it. What do you mean physics done correctly? Do you not know tne SPEs in the PS3 work in parallel and create more than just physics (IE reactions, situations). The cell does more than detect and change irregulations , it creates the scene with having each SPE do something at once.

ps3 SPEs don't work in parallel lol!!!

YES THEY DO! They perform their given tasks at once, and those tasks are independent.

[QUOTE="excelR83"][QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"]

[QUOTE="Out_Kast3000"]Clicked off when I saw you linked me to any XBOX fanboy site.Magical_Zebra

But your NOT a PS3 fanboy so why would it matter? :roll:

Hey there Zebra, rated any games you haven't played lately? :shock: How's that working out for you? :shock: Ahh that's great. :shock: Just touching base. :shock: Glad to hear it.

:shock:

My 15 mins of fame with Lair warrants me a refund. But you knew this already chuck. :shock:
Keep using :shock: it means I have a fan... :D

Now I understand why you seem disgruntled and Kane and Lynch is not in your now playing list..... :shock:

This game is completely unhyped, and I bet it pulls off an 8.5-9.0 no problem.

If it is on the same level as Freedom Fighters, expect a totally awesome game that nobody saw coming.

You heard it here first! :PexcelR83

I never checked the link you provided, but I will state one fact. The Cell on the PS3 is being used to replace super computers. as matter of fact, there was an artilce on GS that said some scientist used 8 PS3's that he got from Sony for free to replace his super computer. If Xenos or whatever it's called is more powerful, then what isn't it being used instead of the Cell? The cell is definitely more powerful acoording to many resources. what people speculate about is the GPU of both consoles which is about the same on both, but if you combine the GPU of the PS3 with the Cell ( the cell can generate graphics and also does AA) you get a more powerful system as far as graphics go. The proof is in the Games. The exclusieve games on the PS3 LOOK much better than anything on the 360, and please don't bring Gears up because I have it on the PC and it's not better looking than Uncharted, R&C or Heavenly Sword.

MotoRacer81

I'm sorry, you're not qualified to speak about computing and processing. You seem to fail to understand how computing works. It's alright. Maybe it's just lack of experience of study. Just... stay out of these kinds of discussions. You're simply underqualified.

You obviously did not read the link I provided, as I didn't provide a link. Still, I'm going to explain this to you nice an easy: A Supercomputer -as the ones you state- usually takes charge of high-load distributed processing: Basically, highly-parallelizable code. This is very nice and fun when you are, I don't know, doing waveform analysis, folding proteins or calculating the best routes for DHL. Floating point operations abound, and you'll be happy with the PS3 and it's DSPs. Have fun with that.

Now, games, they don't tend to manage these kinds of data too much. Games tend to deal with highly branching code, dot-product operations and otherwise general purpose code.

The PS3's cell processor is weak in this respect, and VERY. It's single general purpose core can handle less code than three general purpose ones, and it also needs to manage the DSPs. Not to mention, the 360 Xenos is rather fast at handling dot-product operations, something the cell must emulate.

Does this mean the cell sucks? No, I'm not a random fanboy frothing and the mouth. It means the Cell is not the godly processor you make it out to be: It's very good under specific circumstances, and not so hot under common circumstances. That's it's being used in supercomputers has very little to do with anything related to gaming.

PS- You have gears on PC, and you find it worse-looking that any of those games? Get something better than a GeForce6800 or get the goggles off.

[QUOTE="Titus_WoWplayer"][QUOTE="Vorserider2"][QUOTE="Titus_WoWplayer"][QUOTE="Vorserider2"][QUOTE="excelR83"]

LOL @ that link!

:lol: :lol:

A fanboy site that pulls calculations out of it's collective hole. I especially like how the 360's CPU is apparently 3 times as powerful as the Cell. That's the first time I've heard that anywhere.

Great read! :lol:

Vorserider2

I find that funny as well! Those numbers are completely incorrect considering the Cell can more than double the amount of calculations the 360 can do.

HAHAHAHAHA

ummm yes, but thats not general purpose calculations, general purpose calcs are used ofr AI and al like, while what the cell does is good at say physics when programmed correctly and it is good at detcetcing and changing irragulations...i belive there is a program made for that purpose already...oh yeah folding at home. lol...stil can't beat the 360 general purpose cpu strength...ppl really need to learn to read and learn the tech stuff they want to talk about.....lol

Yeah, I do know tech stuff, and I know a lot of it. What do you mean physics done correctly? Do you not know tne SPEs in the PS3 work in parallel and create more than just physics (IE reactions, situations). The cell does more than detect and change irregulations , it creates the scene with having each SPE do something at once.

ps3 SPEs don't work in parallel lol!!!

YES THEY DO! They perform their given tasks at once, and those tasks are independent.

yeah but they aren't parrallel, they are asymetrical.

Clicked off when I saw you linked me to any XBOX fanboy site.Out_Kast3000

Hey I saw you get pwned on that other forum the other day, you're like a celebrity!

[QUOTE="axes03"]If a Pathetic Dog on the Street barks at you, Do you bark back at it? NO.xDonRobx

I do :(

Well I piss on his hydrant.

All I know is, ps3 has more units in their first year tham 360 did in it's first year, and nintendo has caught and passed 360 in *it's* first year. AND 360's 2008 linup isn't looking that great right now.

If I were a lemming, I wouldn't be picking fights right now.

Actually.....

PS3 Cell>Xenon;360 GPU>RSX *Or, if I'm wrong with names, cell stronger than 360 cpu, 360 gpu stronger than RSX*

Multiplats look weak, but not first party titles, thinking logical when you've had bread and ham all your life to make, your good at it *PC games*, so when french bread and turkey, similar to ham is there, it's easier for you to tap in and learn how to make it quickly and efficient, already with sandwhich making knowledge, this slight variation is similar *360 Architecht*, then, you are given Lasgna ingrediants, never making it before, you struggle each time to make it better and better, although, your already satisfied with bread and ham, because that already enough is allot easier, less costly, etc.. etc.. to make, and it's not like you have any personal close ties with Lasagna, so why put in the full 100% effort to learn how to make it?But yet you still try, each batch you make gets better and better, but still crap *Developer relationship and complication with ps3 architecht explained*

Using logic right there...

Sony never constantly said the ps3 is better, I've only read once Kaz saying it's superior in no specific way, and, if you seem to come under the assumption that gamespot users in Sony's favor represent Sony, and their own beliefs as a whole, your argument is invalidated, and I think you've been slapped with the stupid stick one to many times to the point where it's abuse...

/thread

[QUOTE="MotoRacer81"]

I never checked the link you provided, but I will state one fact. The Cell on the PS3 is being used to replace super computers. as matter of fact, there was an artilce on GS that said some scientist used 8 PS3's that he got from Sony for free to replace his super computer. If Xenos or whatever it's called is more powerful, then what isn't it being used instead of the Cell? The cell is definitely more powerful acoording to many resources. what people speculate about is the GPU of both consoles which is about the same on both, but if you combine the GPU of the PS3 with the Cell ( the cell can generate graphics and also does AA) you get a more powerful system as far as graphics go. The proof is in the Games. The exclusieve games on the PS3 LOOK much better than anything on the 360, and please don't bring Gears up because I have it on the PC and it's not better looking than Uncharted, R&C or Heavenly Sword.

Grive

I'm sorry, you're not qualified to speak about computing and processing. You seem to fail to understand how computing works. It's alright. Maybe it's just lack of experience of study. Just... stay out of these kinds of discussions. You're simply underqualified.

You obviously did not read the link I provided, as I didn't provide a link. Still, I'm going to explain this to you nice an easy: A Supercomputer -as the ones you state- usually takes charge of high-load distributed processing: Basically, highly-parallelizable code. This is very nice and fun when you are, I don't know, doing waveform analysis, folding proteins or calculating the best routes for DHL. Floating point operations abound, and you'll be happy with the PS3 and it's DSPs. Have fun with that.

Now, games, they don't tend to manage these kinds of data too much. Games tend to deal with highly branching code, dot-product operations and otherwise general purpose code.

The PS3's cell processor is weak in this respect, and VERY. It's single general purpose core can handle less code than three general purpose ones, and it also needs to manage the DSPs. Not to mention, the 360 Xenos is rather fast at handling dot-product operations, something the cell must emulate.

Does this mean the cell sucks? No, I'm not a random fanboy frothing and the mouth. It means the Cell is not the godly processor you make it out to be: It's very good under specific circumstances, and not so hot under common circumstances. That's it's being used in supercomputers has very little to do with anything related to gaming.

PS- You have gears on PC, and you find it worse-looking that any of those games? Get something better than a GeForce6800 or get the goggles off.

You are right about the general processing power. But the PS3's PPE isn't where the real work goes on. It just prepares and sends the tasks to the SPEs, and the PPE' high clock rate and no OOO and dual threading makes it better than you'd think. Sure, it may be outdated and not super powerful by itself, but when grouped with the 8 SPEs, it'll hit the target just fine.

no OOO and dual threading makes it better than you'd think.Vorserider2

How does taking out OOE make a processor better? It's a concession done to save transistors, nothing more.

All the leatest multiplats look either equal or better on PS3. Polaris_choice

Riiiiight:roll:

[QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"][QUOTE="excelR83"][QUOTE="Magical_Zebra"]

[QUOTE="Out_Kast3000"]Clicked off when I saw you linked me to any XBOX fanboy site.Magical_Zebra

But your NOT a PS3 fanboy so why would it matter? :roll:

Hey there Zebra, rated any games you haven't played lately? :shock: How's that working out for you? :shock: Ahh that's great. :shock: Just touching base. :shock: Glad to hear it.

:shock:

My 15 mins of fame with Lair warrants me a refund. But you knew this already chuck. :shock:
Keep using :shock: it means I have a fan... :D

Now I understand why you seem disgruntled and Kane and Lynch is not in your now playing list..... :shock:

This game is completely unhyped, and I bet it pulls off an 8.5-9.0 no problem.

If it is on the same level as Freedom Fighters, expect a totally awesome game that nobody saw coming.

You heard it here first! :PexcelR83

haha Nice try but no. He just hyped the game, you on the other hand rate games that you dont play. Your a pathetic sheep and one of the biggest fanboys ive seen.

You are right about the general processing power. But the PS3's PPE isn't where the real work goes on. It just prepares and sends the tasks to the SPEs, and the PPE' high clock rate and no OOO and dual threading makes it better than you'd think. Sure, it may be outdated and not super powerful by itself, but when grouped with the 8 SPEs, it'll hit the target just fine.

Vorserider2

Well, the SPEs are not prepared to handle all kinds of code - they're kinda limited on several aspects, and they're inefficient when it comes to other operations. I'm not sure where you're going with "no out of order exectuion" - thinking it's better is simply wrong. It's a cost-cutting degradation of the processor's internals. In any case, the X360 contains three processors with the exact same specs as the PPE (dual threading, in order, execution).

I did not say the Cell sucks. I specifically made a paragraph saying that. I said that the system looks very pretty in paper and IBM's tests show it as a monster - but this monster is hardly at it's peak when it comes to gaming. That's why it's use in "supercomputers" is irrelevant.

If a Pathetic Dog on the Street barks at you, Do you bark back at it? NO.

why would MS start being idiots and respond to these ridiculous comments when in the real world their system out the FLOPstation3 5:1, last month

axes03

Thats just cold...funny as hell though.

All Sony does is talk. Endlessly. The industry has grown to just ignore them.

While Sony is spending all their resources convincing themselves, along with their loyal moocows, that their system is the best. MS and Nintendo are busy churning out AAA titles. Sony should drop the arrogance and learn2makegames.

[QUOTE="Unreal_393"][QUOTE="MotoRacer81"][QUOTE="axes03"]

If a Pathetic Dog on the Street barks at you, Do you bark back at it? NO.

why would MS start being idiots and respond to these ridiculous comments when in the real world their system is out selling the FLOPstation3 5:1.

MotoRacer81

Your wrong my friend. the PS3 is outselling the 360 worldwide currently.

yay....another delusional cow

First of all I am not a cow. I am not a fanboy of any system. I have my own prefernces to have a ps3 over a 360 and if anything I am a cowmit anyway.

the PS3 is outselling the 360 everywhere in the world but america, Europe Japan and Australia. I said worldwide not in America. You the one whos delusional I think.

America is the biggest market in the world; if it's not outselling the 360 there, then chances are pretty good it's not outselling it overall. But even if it were outselling the 360, it would be doing so on a weekly basis (as in, the last week or two), and not overall.

If a Pathetic Dog on the Street barks at you, Do you bark back at it? NO.

why would MS start being idiots and respond to these ridiculous comments when in the real world their system out the FLOPstation3 5:1, last month

axes03

ROFL

[QUOTE="axes03"]If a Pathetic Dog on the Street barks at you, Do you bark back at it? NO.xDonRobx

I do :(

and btw why are still having these arguments?

the 360 has better overall performance and graphical capabilities than the PS3, period.

Im tired of arguing with noobs who dont know what they are talking about regurgitating what Sony tells them