Why (North America) "fixed" alone can change gaming. why 360 still exi

I'd like to say nice try but sadly it seems you don't even try !

Lets start with you're own words shall we - well I could highlight the whole thing after re-reading but I'll take it easy on you for now - just read what you typed then re-read what you're response was to me. LMAO

You're fav. mfg sure isnt a American one now is it ?

You're whole rant sounds very Anti American to me and us Americans have a saying; If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, it's more then likely a Duck !

Starting out with " I dont want to sound Anti American " is a sure fire way to spot a Anti American in most cases.

Also as you read what you wrote notice how flawed you are by saying only certain types of games would exist if an American Co. ran the V.G. Ind.

Then use this very site to research ( something that seems alien to you ) the depth & breath of the varied game types thatare offered by looking up the 360 library.

I'll wait for you to take back the insults spewed by you to describe my posting but I wont be holding my breath and am sure it's not forthcoming.

It would seem to fit that you are part of that weird - SDF. ;)

SecretPolice

Wow...so you don't address a single point I made and instead concoct a straw man to attack. When I call you on it you say "nice try" for not addressing YOUR points? Let me make this simple for you since that is all you seem capable of understanding.

1) I have no idea what the hell a mfg is. So I can't answer that question. If you are asking what my favorite console it then, in order, Master System, SNES, PS1, PS2, 360. If you are asking what my favorite game or game maker is I don't have one. I judge each game by it's merits and not by some preconceived opinions.

2) Of course my arguement sounds "anti-American" to somebody ignorant. Any time somebody says that money isn't the greatest motive for producing quality - especially in a "go USA" thread - is guaranteed to be attacked as being Unamerican by some ignorant person who doesn't want to have an intelligent discussion. I know that happens all the time, which I why I hoped to cut it off with a disclaimer. Little did I know it would set off such a knee jerk reaction.

3) If it looks like a duck, etc. A simple excuse. If you were making a proper analogy then I would point out you clearly have no idea what a duck is and therefore should refrain from labeling something you have no clue about.

4) This thread is not about if an American company was #1 in the videogame business. This is about the claim that an American company is destined to dominate and is the only country capable of effecting change. I agreed but said that change isn't necessarily for the better. You then say that I should look at the 360's library to see how diverse it is. You are right, it is diverse. It's nowhere near the PS2 level, but it is certainly the most diverse and best library right now. However, I don't see any signs of innovation. Many of those "diverse" games are from other countries. AND to top it all off, this library is happening even though neither the Xbox or the 360 were #1 in their generation (360 looks destined for #2 if the Wii sales hold up).

5) Why would I apologize when I have made no such insult. I said you were ignorant based on your (still) refusal to address my arguement logically and instead make odd, nationalistic complaints about me. Ignorant, by definition, is not knowing something. By not addressing my arguement or points logically, and instead creating straw men attacks against me, I can only assume you don't know what you are talking about and yet feel your opinion is valid regardless. I am always open to honest discussion and differing POVs. However, you seem to have been attracted to a "go USA" thread and are looking for people to attack. Sorry buddy, but this isn't Iraq. No insurgents here for you to fight. Just gamers who feel that MS has no desire to improve of change gaming for the better.

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

You are correct sir - the minority who speak of the importance of the JP market for the VG Ind. are stuck in the past and shall be left there if they refuse to see the light.

The 360 is winning in N.A. ---- The Most Important Market and ! ....those other consoles Mfg. who are not doing as well in N.A. are the ones who need to worry about failing !

SecretPolice

The Wii is winning all markets for the time being...Yes they have not sold has much has the 360 in the US but if sales stay the same it only a matter of time. That if they stay the same.

To continue to deny this fact is futile.

The 360 has two big - no - Giant hitters that are due to hit the street in the next few weeks ( Halo 3 & M.E. ) and these two will only further the 360's domination of the worlds most important market for V.G - The N.A. market !

you don't have to be a fanboy to see that the wii has been out selling the 360 and the ps3 combined in NA for months now. (as well as in other regions) why wouldn't the wii over take the 360 eventually?

TC, your argument is flawed. If you've been paying attention to the NPD since the start of the year, the Wii has been outselling both the 360 and PS3 combined in the US. MS only has the lead because of the one year head start. With the way the Wii is going, MS fanboys won't even have their precious "US is the most important market that matters" argument, just like their "MS has sold the most worldwide" came crashing down when the Wii surpassed it in August.

Keep thinking that the US is important because you are partially correct. Just don't expect the 360 to hold onto it when the Wii sold 430+k consoles during last month's drought. The Wii will eventually surpass the 360 in the US.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"] I'd like to say nice try but sadly it seems you don't even try !

Lets start with you're own words shall we - well I could highlight the whole thing after re-reading but I'll take it easy on you for now - just read what you typed then re-read what you're response was to me. LMAO

You're fav. mfg sure isnt a American one now is it ?

You're whole rant sounds very Anti American to me and us Americans have a saying; If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, it's more then likely a Duck !

Starting out with " I dont want to sound Anti American " is a sure fire way to spot a Anti American in most cases.

Also as you read what you wrote notice how flawed you are by saying only certain types of games would exist if an American Co. ran the V.G. Ind.

Then use this very site to research ( something that seems alien to you ) the depth & breath of the varied game types thatare offered by looking up the 360 library.

I'll wait for you to take back the insults spewed by you to describe my posting but I wont be holding my breath and am sure it's not forthcoming.

It would seem to fit that you are part of that weird - SDF. ;)

ZIMdoom

Wow...so you don't address a single point I made and instead concoct a straw man to attack. When I call you on it you say "nice try" for not addressing YOUR points? Let me make this simple for you since that is all you seem capable of understanding.

1) I have no idea what the hell a mfg is. So I can't answer that question. If you are asking what my favorite console it then, in order, Master System, SNES, PS1, PS2, 360. If you are asking what my favorite game or game maker is I don't have one. I judge each game by it's merits and not by some preconceived opinions.

2) Of course my arguement sounds "anti-American" to somebody ignorant. Any time somebody says that money isn't the greatest motive for producing quality - especially in a "go USA" thread - is guaranteed to be attacked as being Unamerican by some ignorant person who doesn't want to have an intelligent discussion. I know that happens all the time, which I why I hoped to cut it off with a disclaimer. Little did I know it would set off such a knee jerk reaction.

3) If it looks like a duck, etc. A simple excuse. If you were making a proper analogy then I would point out you clearly have no idea what a duck is and therefore should refrain from labeling something you have no clue about.

4) This thread is not about if an American company was #1 in the videogame business. This is about the claim that an American company is destined to dominate and is the only country capable of effecting change. I agreed but said that change isn't necessarily for the better. You then say that I should look at the 360's library to see how diverse it is. You are right, it is diverse. It's nowhere near the PS2 level, but it is certainly the most diverse and best library right now. However, I don't see any signs of innovation. Many of those "diverse" games are from other countries. AND to top it all off, this library is happening even though neither the Xbox or the 360 were #1 in their generation (360 looks destined for #2 if the Wii sales hold up).

5) Why would I apologize when I have made no such insult. I said you were ignorant based on your (still) refusal to address my arguement logically and instead make odd, nationalistic complaints about me. Ignorant, by definition, is not knowing something. By not addressing my arguement or points logically, and instead creating straw men attacks against me, I can only assume you don't know what you are talking about and yet feel your opinion is valid regardless. I am always open to honest discussion and differing POVs. However, you seem to have been attracted to a "go USA" thread and are looking for people to attack. Sorry buddy, but this isn't Iraq. No insurgents here for you to fight. Just gamers who feel that MS has no desire to improve of change gaming for the better.

I've seen this tactic before as you're points were disputed by me and you are looking the other way so to avoid acknowledging that - sad way to debate in my view.

Mfg. = Manufacturing.

I haventthe time nor the Patience to continue a debate where it seems, one party to the debate ignores his or her own previously typed words.

I'll leave with this so as you will hopefully know I'm not trying to be difficult.

At this point I agree to disagree.

Maybe on another topic we will find a healthier debate or even common ground. :)

I'll see you around.

[QUOTE="Magical_Guy"]the reason why the xbox is alive is because MS is really rich, and they can support it even though there losing money on the brand.CrazyCarter

yes, MSis rich and yes, they can support the xbox, but why would they want to loose money on something. i think that by the time everything is added up they are making money. they wouldn't be in the gaming market otherwise would they?

Have a look at Ms's profits since the first xbox was released. If you look at how much money they've made, you might be surprised to find it's a figure significantly less than $0.

Had MS not cocked up the hardware on the 360, they may finally have made a profit this year. As it is, the three year warranty and lack of new chipsets in the console have screwed that up.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"][QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

You are correct sir - the minority who speak of the importance of the JP market for the VG Ind. are stuck in the past and shall be left there if they refuse to see the light.

The 360 is winning in N.A. ---- The Most Important Market and ! ....those other consoles Mfg. who are not doing as well in N.A. are the ones who need to worry about failing !

Ontain

The Wii is winning all markets for the time being...Yes they have not sold has much has the 360 in the US but if sales stay the same it only a matter of time. That if they stay the same.

To continue to deny this fact is futile.

The 360 has two big - no - Giant hitters that are due to hit the street in the next few weeks ( Halo 3 & M.E. ) and these two will only further the 360's domination of the worlds most important market for V.G - The N.A. market !

you don't have to be a fanboy to see that the wii has been out selling the 360 and the ps3 combined in NA for months now. (as well as in other regions) why wouldn't the wii over take the 360 eventually?

QFT. The TC's remarks are clearly intended to incite this sort of "debate" though, as ZimDoom has shown, the TC has resorted to a written xenophobic tone of anyone who's not American.

Oh, and whilst I'm here, M$ aren't exactly the model company to pine for either. Though I would say each has their own faults, M$ won't even admit to deficient hardware design and would rather you, the consumer, wait god knows how many weeks for it to be fixed - free or not.

We all know support for the 360 is strongest in the US and don't need comments like the TC's reminding us of the fact. Whilst I have no ill-will for the US in general, the TC's thread and subsequent posts are very immature and it's unfortunate that many see people like him/her as representative of the American people on the whole.

Ok, rant over. Promise. :)

So because the 360 is losing to the Wii worldwide, you're resorting to saying that the 360 still has more units sold in the largest market than the Wii? That's rather pathetic.

Worldwide > USA

I don't get you man - you through around insulting sentences charaterizing in so many ways that others ( me in this case ) are the ignorant yet you failto see what you're typing andyou are very pot calling the kettle black - sheesh !

I've seen this tactic before as you're points were disputed by me and you are looking the other way so to avoid acknowledging that - sad way to debate in my view.

Mfg. = Manufacturing.

I haventthe time nor the Patience to continue a debate where it seems, one party to the debate ignores his or her own previously typed words.

I'll leave with this so as you will hopefully know I'm not trying to be difficult.

At this point I agree to disagree.

Maybe on another topic we will find a healthier debate or even common ground. :)

I'll see you around.

SecretPolice

I stand by my words. I fail to see where you have so much as addressed my original thread, let alone disputed them. In fact, this is two posts by me, offering an explanation, that you have obviously ignored completely. And yet again, while ignoring my SECOND post, you accuse me of ignoring your posts...which have no content or relevance to anything and intead are filled with comments like "you are anti-american" and "I bet your favorite mfg isn't American" and "andyou are very pot calling the kettle black".Even after I answer every question you ask, AND further explain my original post, you STILL say I am not addressing YOUR post.

I can only assume you are neither capable of, nor interested, in having a debate or a conversation on the topic at hand. Maybe on another topic we will find a healthier debate? I doubt it since you clearly don't know what a debate is.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]I don't get you man - you through around insulting sentences charaterizing in so many ways that others ( me in this case ) are the ignorant yet you failto see what you're typing andyou are very pot calling the kettle black - sheesh !

I've seen this tactic before as you're points were disputed by me and you are looking the other way so to avoid acknowledging that - sad way to debate in my view.

Mfg. = Manufacturing.

I haventthe time nor the Patience to continue a debate where it seems, one party to the debate ignores his or her own previously typed words.

I'll leave with this so as you will hopefully know I'm not trying to be difficult.

At this point I agree to disagree.

Maybe on another topic we will find a healthier debate or even common ground. :)

I'll see you around.

ZIMdoom

I stand by my words. I fail to see where you have so much as addressed my original thread, let alone disputed them. In fact, this is two posts by me, offering an explanation, that you have obviously ignored completely. And yet again, while ignoring my SECOND post, you accuse me of ignoring your posts...which have no content or relevance to anything and intead are filled with comments like "you are anti-american" and "I bet your favorite mfg isn't American" and "andyou are very pot calling the kettle black".Even after I answer every question you ask, AND further explain my original post, you STILL say I am not addressing YOUR post.

I can only assume you are neither capable of, nor interested, in having a debate or a conversation on the topic at hand. Maybe on another topic we will find a healthier debate? I doubt it since you clearly don't know what a debate is.

.

.

My response:

You sir have a problem with comprehension which is no surprise as I reflect on the way you handle yourself.

From the top shall we, again in you're own words, highlighted to try and make it easier for you to follow.

You wrote the following:

I don't want to come off sounding Anti-AMerican, but I think your nationalist bravado needs a slight dose of reality.If American companies controlled the gaming market we'd have nothing to play but mostly FPSers, racing and sports titles. Games would rely WAY more on regular expansions that milk the customer instead of making a great deal from the start.Gaming would be like the movie industry...with way too much attention on shallow-but-flashy "junk food", less and less innovation and originality and more and more crappy reshashes,pointlesssequals and rip offsof better titles.

Why? For the very reason you mention...money.For now, there is still an element of love and desire in the industry. If American companies had their way it would be all about money and nothing BUT money.You could kiss innovation and original and sleeper hits goodbye because those don't make the most possible money.

Sure, that would change gaming but it won't be for the better.

I responded by typing the following:

It sure would do you good to acknowledge you're own favorite V.G. mfg. is also in it for the money as well!

If it's the Wii.. well that hardware for the money is the biggest money grab & pure greed I have ever witnessed in all V.G. history.

Also, MS is spending $$ big time to gain diverse devs and appeal to the world and that is for the better - you're team should try to do the same - just maybe.

.

.

.

My response to you now.

Match you're words, highlighted - with the corresponding highlight of my words - easy enough I hope.

Now read the following and re-read you're own words above if you must and I think it is a must as you are very forgetful it seems.

I will not do this hand-holding through you're own words again !

Okay those words are fine( you set up the disclaimer -"You're not anti U.S.) but it seems with back handed slap as though you can be proud but the TC needs a dose of reality - fair right...... Pffttt !

Immediately after the disclaimer, you jump into painting with a broad stereotype brush on American companies. You singled out American companies ( leaving the reader of you post ( me ) to conclude" American = FPS, Racing, Sports and milk the customer" as though whoever ( you must have some other country in mind that doesn't do this - correct?) you do like as a non American company doesn't do any of the same. Read it again and deny again - I know it's coming.

Now this next line is truly just flat out wrong and if anything 180 degrees the other way. you use these words: Shallow, flashy junk food and less & less innovation & originality ! Seems clear you look the other way when it's not a American Co. b/c Nintendo and Sony ( looking at the library of games this gen. ) are clearly the guilty parties on that front but alas you give them a pass.

Here we go again on this line. American Co. do this - for the Money - Yes I Agree though you're ( favorite country does the same ) !

This is where you show much of you're own " bravado " obviously from those words you have a country who this applies too - you're " team " is the way I put it. So what Country do you attribute this" doing it for love & desire ": b/c as I have had you revisit you're own words, it's clearly not the U.S. ?

The next line only furthers the foolish Idea you have of you're own Favorite country doing this " love & desire "thing and the money they make is just a bonus - right -You tell the TC he has too much Bravado. You need a heavy dose of reality injected as you are clearly a misguided person with out a good grasp on how the world works..

Again with the lack of " teh innovation " of the Americans and it's all about the money as though the other country ( just stand up and name it already ) you have in mind has out innovated the U.S. and seeks no profit - give this great country you have in mind a name please - I really would like to pick that one apart as well.

Dont bother about my last sentence b/c after a bit more thought and re-reading the way you have spoke to me; I have no desire to spend another minute of my time trying to make a blind man see.

Good day, Good luck and Goodbye.

blah blahblah blah blah SecretPolice

Since I hurt your feeling, I will throw you a bit of a bone. I went back and re-read the very first post of the thread. I will admit to misunderstanding the intent of the initial post. He was speaking about the US influence in gaming, which is true in general but mistaken in the specifics. The US does have a disporportionate amount of say for some games and that is why some developers are focusing on the Xbox despite better sales of other consoles in their own country.

We all know that FPSers and sports titles sell better in North America. We all know that RPGs sell better in Asian regions. We all know that MGS sells way better in NA despite being a Japanese game and that is why it has started releasing first in NA.

MY misunderstanding was in thinking the original thread-starter was saying that only by an American company dominating the industry (or being #1) can change gaming. Something the title implies despite the fact that the post itself mentions no such thing (either about change OR dominance).

That is why my intial post says what it says. I don't believe it takes American dominance to to change an industry and I believe history will back that up for me. But I won't tellyou to read up on the latest news of manufacturing, science, research, etc. Essentially, in almost every area, American companies are slipping behind the rest of the world. One such as myself can easily make the case that it is caused by the "profit motivation" gradually going from motivation to blnid obsession. But that is another issue for another day.

I am Canadian...and there is no Canadian console. So I consider myself an unbiased third party with no stake in the game. HOwever (geography lesson), being Canadian I consider ALL OF NORTH AMERICA to be America. That includes Canada. In Canada, we typically call your country the "U.S.". Nobody in Canada says, "I'm going to America!" Only actual Americans refer to their country by the name of the whole continent. So I can understand your confusion on why you think I am bas mouthing "America". However, my disclaimer, as I originally stated, was directed at Americans whom I often find in topics like this, to present the exact reaction YOU have shown whenever you don't %100 jump on the "America! F*** YEAH!" bandwagon. However, I stand by my initial claims in my initial post and will back them up with facts all day long. You still have not offered a single contrary fact and only replied with ad hominem attacks and irrelevant points like "all companies want to make money" which I never claimed otherwise.

My point is this. Different countries, as well as different people, have differing game tastes. Many people here, such as myself, gave up on PC gaming and moves to console gaming because it offered many different games from many different people. The PC gaming industry in N.A. quickly went from diverse (in the late 80's early 90's) to very heavily focused on only a couple genres...FPSer being the most dominant one. What happens to people such as myself who play a wide variety of games? I don't like FPS or Real Time Strategy...so the majority of games don't appeal to me. And I'm not about to constantly upgrade my PC to play the one RPG a year that comes out and is good when I can buy a console and play a different RPG every week...as well as action, adventure, fighters, etc.

This is where I see consol gaming heading if the N.A. market becomes the dominant and driving force, or if the Xbox wipes out the competition. MS is clearly already moving to bring the console more towards the PC to get more synergy out of their products. The Xbox was basically a PC.Xbox and 360 both use windows, and MS's push for online gaming is so they can further blur the line between their console and PCs.

With regard to American game companies, I also believe they are moving more toward the mindset of the movie studios.More and morefocus on hypingone big blockbuster a year, at the expense of thetons of other, smaller but most likely better games...which thendon't sell and never see sequals or other similar games. This is not just ME saying this, but people within the industry have spoken against this trend as well. DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES have already mentioned at conferences and trade shows that publishers are taking fewerrisks and investing much less in new and original ideas. They would rather spend more money on a graphical showpiece, or on trying to make the next Halo. Developers themselves are saying this about thefocus on the North Americanmarket. I would highly encourage you to look these speeches up on the net and read what they are saying.

On the other hand, over seas markets are more likely to adopt smaller, quirckier titles. And over seas development companies don't allrely on big, wealthier publishers to get theirgames out. This means more smaller companies making more original and innovative titles. Tehcnically the same is true for why animation in other countries isconsidered so much better thanwhat is produced here. Cheaper methods encourage more originality as there is less to lose...therefore you take more chances.

With regard to developers all focusing on the American market because of all the money...well, there is no proof that the NA market spends more per capita than other countries. I know MS loves to praise their attach rates, and I think this is what gets them so much developer attention for now. However, there is still no real sign of what "attach rate" means to developers. For example, the Xbox has an attach rate of like 5 or something. But if the overwhelming majority of those 5 games is the same 5 games, what does that say about the other 100 games coming out. Is that any different than developers complaining about primarily Nintendo games selling on Nintendo consoles? I don't think so. Or what if, out of those 5 games, 4 are FPS and arcade racer. What motive do developers have to make other types of games, or to release other games on the Xbox? This is information we don't know at this time because nobody has done the calculations necessary to interpret what "attach rate" really means for the consumer, the developers, publishers, etc. All MS does is tell people it's high because it makes them look like they sell more games...but even that isn't exactly true if there is no context.

So that is my point and my explanation without "insulting" you. What got on my nerves was your continued persistance on what is truly a ignorant statements...that i was somehow unfairly attacking "AMerica" and that i was implying money wasn't important or that other companies don't care about money. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but those truly were ignorant statements to make. I neither said, nor implied, any such thing. There is a WORLD of difference between what I said, "money isn't always a positive motivator for positive change" and what you accused me of saying (America is greedy and other companies only need love to operate). THAT is why I accused you of not addressing my points. You flew off the handle with a knee-jerk reaction and responded with points that had nothing to do with anything I was talking about. A proper analogy would be me saying, "This store is an over-priced rip-off" and you responding with "What do you have against making money? Do you think other stores don't want money too?" Then when I responded with "That doesn't make any sense" you say I am the one who doesn't comprehend...then start attacking the Wii because it makes money.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

blah blahblah blah blah ZIMdoom

Since I hurt your feeling, I will throw you a bit of a bone. I went back and re-read the very first post of the thread. I will admit to misunderstanding the intent of the initial post. He was speaking about the US influence in gaming, which is true in general but mistaken in the specifics. The US does have a disporportionate amount of say for some games and that is why some developers are focusing on the Xbox despite better sales of other consoles in their own country.

We all know that FPSers and sports titles sell better in North America. We all know that RPGs sell better in Asian regions. We all know that MGS sells way better in NA despite being a Japanese game and that is why it has started releasing first in NA.

MY misunderstanding was in thinking the original thread-starter was saying that only by an American company dominating the industry (or being #1) can change gaming. Something the title implies despite the fact that the post itself mentions no such thing (either about change OR dominance).

That is why my intial post says what it says. I don't believe it takes American dominance to to change an industry and I believe history will back that up for me. But I won't tellyou to read up on the latest news of manufacturing, science, research, etc. Essentially, in almost every area, American companies are slipping behind the rest of the world. One such as myself can easily make the case that it is caused by the "profit motivation" gradually going from motivation to blnid obsession. But that is another issue for another day.

I am Canadian...and there is no Canadian console. So I consider myself an unbiased third party with no stake in the game. HOwever (geography lesson), being Canadian I consider ALL OF NORTH AMERICA to be America. That includes Canada. In Canada, we typically call your country the "U.S.". Nobody in Canada says, "I'm going to America!" Only actual Americans refer to their country by the name of the whole continent. So I can understand your confusion on why you think I am bas mouthing "America". However, my disclaimer, as I originally stated, was directed at Americans whom I often find in topics like this, to present the exact reaction YOU have shown whenever you don't %100 jump on the "America! F*** YEAH!" bandwagon. However, I stand by my initial claims in my initial post and will back them up with facts all day long. You still have not offered a single contrary fact and only replied with ad hominem attacks and irrelevant points like "all companies want to make money" which I never claimed otherwise.

My point is this. Different countries, as well as different people, have differing game tastes. Many people here, such as myself, gave up on PC gaming and moves to console gaming because it offered many different games from many different people. The PC gaming industry in N.A. quickly went from diverse (in the late 80's early 90's) to very heavily focused on only a couple genres...FPSer being the most dominant one. What happens to people such as myself who play a wide variety of games? I don't like FPS or Real Time Strategy...so the majority of games don't appeal to me. And I'm not about to constantly upgrade my PC to play the one RPG a year that comes out and is good when I can buy a console and play a different RPG every week...as well as action, adventure, fighters, etc.

This is where I see consol gaming heading if the N.A. market becomes the dominant and driving force, or if the Xbox wipes out the competition. MS is clearly already moving to bring the console more towards the PC to get more synergy out of their products. The Xbox was basically a PC.Xbox and 360 both use windows, and MS's push for online gaming is so they can further blur the line between their console and PCs.

With regard to American game companies, I also believe they are moving more toward the mindset of the movie studios.More and morefocus on hypingone big blockbuster a year, at the expense of thetons of other, smaller but most likely better games...which thendon't sell and never see sequals or other similar games. This is not just ME saying this, but people within the industry have spoken against this trend as well. DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES have already mentioned at conferences and trade shows that publishers are taking fewerrisks and investing much less in new and original ideas. They would rather spend more money on a graphical showpiece, or on trying to make the next Halo. Developers themselves are saying this about thefocus on the North Americanmarket. I would highly encourage you to look these speeches up on the net and read what they are saying.

On the other hand, over seas markets are more likely to adopt smaller, quirckier titles. And over seas development companies don't allrely on big, wealthier publishers to get theirgames out. This means more smaller companies making more original and innovative titles. Tehcnically the same is true for why animation in other countries isconsidered so much better thanwhat is produced here. Cheaper methods encourage more originality as there is less to lose...therefore you take more chances.

With regard to developers all focusing on the American market because of all the money...well, there is no proof that the NA market spends more per capita than other countries. I know MS loves to praise their attach rates, and I think this is what gets them so much developer attention for now. However, there is still no real sign of what "attach rate" means to developers. For example, the Xbox has an attach rate of like 5 or something. But if the overwhelming majority of those 5 games is the same 5 games, what does that say about the other 100 games coming out. Is that any different than developers complaining about primarily Nintendo games selling on Nintendo consoles? I don't think so. Or what if, out of those 5 games, 4 are FPS and arcade racer. What motive do developers have to make other types of games, or to release other games on the Xbox? This is information we don't know at this time because nobody has done the calculations necessary to interpret what "attach rate" really means for the consumer, the developers, publishers, etc. All MS does is tell people it's high because it makes them look like they sell more games...but even that isn't exactly true if there is no context.

So that is my point and my explanation without "insulting" you. What got on my nerves was your continued persistance on what is truly a ignorant statements...that i was somehow unfairly attacking "AMerica" and that i was implying money wasn't important or that other companies don't care about money. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but those truly were ignorant statements to make. I neither said, nor implied, any such thing. There is a WORLD of difference between what I said, "money isn't always a positive motivator for positive change" and what you accused me of saying (America is greedy and other companies only need love to operate). THAT is why I accused you of not addressing my points. You flew off the handle with a knee-jerk reaction and responded with points that had nothing to do with anything I was talking about. A proper analogy would be me saying, "This store is an over-priced rip-off" and you responding with "What do you have against making money? Do you think other stores don't want money too?" Then when I responded with "That doesn't make any sense" you say I am the one who doesn't comprehend...then start attacking the Wii because it makes money.

I'm not sure we will agree on who did what and flew off the handle but I do appreciate you taking the time to clarify you're stance on this matter.

I am hoping that we can, as stated in my previous post; just take a few steps back from this and realize maybe we shared some fault and took the meanings of our words differently than theywere intended.

I'm good with this and hope you might feel the same.

PS: As a part of understanding each other, I think from this last post by you that you too have been into gaming for a long time.

My gaming hobby started in the early to mid 1970's and have witnessed much of what and where the V.G. Ind.has been and feel I have a good understanding where it's going.

To that I say, be not afraid of the MS impact on gaming; so far they have been giving more time & gold to expand the gaming experience and are taking many risks that have failed to yield any sort of profit - in fact Big losses !

If they or any other company should try to take gaming to the dark places you speak of; as in the past, I would stop any support and jump on board the company doing otherwise.

I guess that is what I may have inferred wrong about you, as I have no loyalty to a Nameplate or it's country of origin only that the system deliver the goods.

I hope you're the same.

Of course the NA market is huge, but you can't win without Japan. The PS2 sold more than the GC and Xbox alone in Japan.Sir-Marwin105