Why so much denial (MGS4 related)?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]don't you get it I DON'T LIKE MGS GAMES! i never have and i never will,I AM A SPLINTER CELL fan it's got nothing to do with "DENIAL" what you are saying is that anyone who does not like mgs4 is in denial WRONG, just cos you say it's a good game does not mean we all HAVE to think it's a good it's all about PERSONAL PREFERENCE. i have been playing games since the zx spectrum,i actually played the first metalgear game on my dads MSX and i didn't like it then, get it into your head everyone is entitled to their own opinio and just cos they disagree with you does not mean they are in denial,grow updelta3074

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its an amazing game. I don't like MGS either but give credit where its do its an amazing game. The game just doesn't cator to your taste and preference that is all.

Tell me what continent do you live on out of curiosity for your credibilities sake, and have you lived there all your life?

You realize the MSX version of Metal Gear was only released in Japan and the Netherlands correct? So how is it that you played the original on your dads MSX? You don't live in the Netherlands and you don't live in Japan.

edit: I stand corrected it was later released throughout all of Europe. So wow you actually could have played it.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]don't you get it I DON'T LIKE MGS GAMES! i never have and i never will,I AM A SPLINTER CELL fan it's got nothing to do with "DENIAL" what you are saying is that anyone who does not like mgs4 is in denial WRONG, just cos you say it's a good game does not mean we all HAVE to think it's a good it's all about PERSONAL PREFERENCE. i have been playing games since the zx spectrum,i actually played the first metalgear game on my dads MSX and i didn't like it then, get it into your head everyone is entitled to their own opinio and just cos they disagree with you does not mean they are in denial,grow upBlackbond

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its an amazing game. I don't like MGS either but give credit where its do its an amazing game. The game just doesn't cator to your taste and preference that is all.

Tell me what continent do you live on out of curiosity for your credibilities sake, and have you lived there all your life?

You realize the MSX version of Metal Gear was only released in Japan and the Netherlands correct? So how is it that you played the original on your dads MSX? You don't live in the Netherlands and you don't live in Japan.

http://en.wiki.org/wikipedia/metal_gear_(series)

[QUOTE="delta3074"]don't you get it I DON'T LIKE MGS GAMES! i never have and i never will,I AM A SPLINTER CELL fan it's got nothing to do with "DENIAL" what you are saying is that anyone who does not like mgs4 is in denial WRONG, just cos you say it's a good game does not mean we all HAVE to think it's a good it's all about PERSONAL PREFERENCE. i have been playing games since the zx spectrum, i actually played the first metalgear game on my dads MSX and i didn't like it then, get it into your head everyone is entitled to their own opinio and just cos they disagree with you does not mean they are in denial,grow upBlackbond

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its an amazing game. I don't like MGS either but give credit where its do its an amazing game. The game just doesn't cator to your taste and preference that is all.

Isn't that the truth! My brother was always a die-hard MG fan, and I just never got it. It was never my thing. It's obvious that PS3 owners (I hate the term "fans") have a real gem. I'm sure that there are also many dedicated PS3 owners that will never play MGS4.

It's sad that 360 owners will deny that the game is quality because it's on Sony's system. It's also sad that PS3 owners will deny the quality of the 360 based on the excellence of one game.

The truth is that all three systems now have a quality lineup of titles. I can't remember a generation that was so diverse.

It didn't deserve the 10, there is a reason SMG and GTA are rated 4% higher on GR.

Isn't that the truth! My brother was always a die-hard MG fan, and I just never got it. It was never my thing. It's obvious that PS3 owners (I hate the term "fans") have a real gem. I'm sure that there are also many dedicated PS3 owners that will never play MGS4.

It's sad that 360 owners will deny that the game is quality because it's on Sony's system. It's also sad that PS3 owners will deny the quality of the 360 based on the excellence of one game.

The truth is that all three systems now have a quality lineup of titles. I can't remember a generation that was so diverse.

romans828_2002

I agree with everything here except I would substitute the word "diverse" with "parity." I think that last gen was much more diverse, but all that diversity was on the PS2.

MGS4 is my favorite game of all time.

That is all.

It didn't deserve the 10, there is a reason SMG and GTA are rated 4% higher on GR.

UssjTrunks

Yes it did deserve it's 10, GTA4 deserved a 9.8, and Galaxy is nowhere near either of them, Galaxy isnt even close to Mario 64.

I think it is a technically impressive game, but if you watch someone play through it you notice the sacrifices made to make those visuals possible.

Frequents loading screens, frame rate drops etc.

It would be more impressive if the game achieved what it did without these sacrifices, it is supposed to be the most powerful console after all.

The answer to all of your questions is pure damage control. Fanboys are finding every little excuse to try and discredit this game when it deserves all of the credit it gets. It's easy to tell who is lying about playing the game, too, seeing how they could just read some spoilers and repost them on a forumto try and get behind the game to stab it in the back.

I've said this before, and so have many other reviewers: The only reason behind all of the hate and nitpicking on this game is fanboyism. Gamers are enjoying this game, while anti-gaming fanboys are trying to preach hate for the game. I used to try and ignore people like this, but it got annoying when Metal Gear Solid 4 released. It's like these fanboys don't ever want to enjoy gaming.

I'm tired of the fanboy hate. Why can't people at least accept the fact that it is a good game without trying to start a religion of hatred for a game they will probably never play?

MGS4 is probably the best game I've played so far this gen, certainly the best console game, but it does have its issues. One thing that isn't an issue is gameplay. People claim there's little gameplay, so I'm wondering how I clocked in over 30 hours on my first playthrough. And that wasn't because I suck or I'm slow, but because I was taking my sweet time and doing what I wanted to do. I think people forget that you don't necessarily have to go straight to your objective. There are plenty of enemies in most of the levels to mess around with and try out strategies, and random things to find.

Anyway, the one glaring issue with MGS4, and the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head, is the dialogue. There are way too many problems when it comes to dialogue. Much of it is completely unecessary.

Next time you play through the game, pay attention to what the characters say and how often they say the exact same thing they just said in a slightly different fashion. It happens a lot, and it's a shame, because it's the primary reason the cutscenes are so long, which is also people's primary (if not only) complaint about this game.

Ultimately, it all goes back to the dialogue. Kojima is a great dev, but it's no insult to say that he could use an editor. Editors are a necessary and often called-upon profession for reasons like this.

1. mgs4 is sweet

2. the cutscenes are too long. i agree. but i like the story, so i watched them. you can skip them though if you find them long, boring, or whatever.

3. if you actually watch all of the cutscenes and play on solid normal mode, i would say the gameplay is about 60 percent of the time.

The answer to all of your questions is pure damage control. Fanboys are finding every little excuse to try and discredit this game when it deserves all of the credit it gets. It's easy to tell who is lying about playing the game, too, seeing how they could just read some spoilers and repost them on a forumto try and get behind the game to stab it in the back.

I've said this before, and so have many other reviewers: The only reason behind all of the hate and nitpicking on this game is fanboyism. Gamers are enjoying this game, while anti-gaming fanboys are trying to preach hate for the game. I used to try and ignore people like this, but it got annoying when Metal Gear Solid 4 released. It's like these fanboys don't ever want to enjoy gaming.

I'm tired of the fanboy hate. Why can't people at least accept the fact that it is a good game without trying to start a religion of hatred for a game they will probably never play?

X_CAPCOM_X

Ugh.

I wouldn't even care enough to post my complaints about the storytelling in the game if it weren't for the people who think that it's perfect in all ways, and anyone who says anything remotely negative is a biased hater who doesn't own the game.

It's hard to imagine how anyone could say it's a bad game, but it's not a relevatory experience that will revolutionize the third-person action genre forever. It's not an 11 out of 10. It's exceptional and unique, but it has some very acute flaws.

Why so much denial that MGS4 is an amazing game? I hear people claiming they've played it. Really now?

These are the same people that hate the PS3 with a passion. They say the cut scenes are long. Any reviewer will say that the cut scenes in MGS4 are at perfect length. Obviously, if you people understood the story, you would love every second of the cut scenes. Too bad you don't. This is another reason why MGS4 will never appear on the 360, 360 owners don't understand the game or the story.

Now, they say that there's no gameplay in MGS4. Surely you have to be an idiot to say that. The game has a lot of gameplay. 75% of the game is gameplay. There's amazing infiltration missions where you need to get somewhere. You can go anyway you want, but I prefer taking my time doing it stealthy. There's huge boss battles that are amazing. And everything you can ever wish for. Saying MGS4 has too many cut scenes shows your ignorance of understanding of the game.

Secondly, the graphics. I see people here comparing the graphics saying they suck. First of all, MGS4 needs to be experienced in motion and you will be amazed by the game. Secondly, the cut scenes run in real time, no CGI.

I just hate it when people here claim they've played it, say it sucks when they don't understand what kind of game it is. Honestly 360 fanboys, why so much denial? Just because it's never coming to your console it automatically sucks? A certain 360 fanboy who we all know refers himself to "Lemming General" has stated this. I find it sad.

Albanian_Killa

Partially because the PoS3 fanboys were shoving the game's success in everyone else's faces ("oh we gotz mgs4 an u dun't loosers haha!"). Many of them seem to be angry at those guys and are fighting back. Also, remember that the entire series is love it or hate it. Either you like the way it plays out or you don't. It also seems like some of your type doesn't realize that fact either and can't stand to see Metal Gear Solid bashed. You may love it, others do legitimately hate it. There is a minor bit of fanboy influence in the denial, though definitely not like the influence you think came purely from fanboyism.

I agree you see people complaining about frame rate and such and you know they are full of it because even with huge explosions I dont have a little dip in frame rate. Plus the graphics are top notch in game.

Ugh.

I wouldn't even care enough to post my complaints about the storytelling in the game if it weren't for the people who think that it's perfect in all ways, and anyone who says anything remotely negative is a biased hater who doesn't own the game.

It's hard to imagine how anyone could say it's a bad game, but it's not a relevatory experience that will revolutionize the third-person action genre forever. It's not an 11 out of 10. It's exceptional and unique, but it has some very acute flaws.

sonicmj1

Your problem comes in where you base your whole criticism of the game off of little trivial nitpicked flaws rather than what the game did well. If everyone started from the negative edge the way you did in this post, nobody would ever enjoy anything. I find it funny that you did that, because it's not hard to see what the game did well. Nobody thinks it's perfect in all ways, but it is a great achievement.

Partially because the PoS3 fanboys were shoving the game's success in everyone else's faces ("oh we gotz mgs4 an u dun't loosers haha!"). Many of them seem to be angry at those guys and are fighting back. Also, remember that the entire series is love it or hate it. Either you like the way it plays out or you don't. It also seems like some of your type doesn't realize that fact either and can't stand to see Metal Gear Solid bashed. You may love it, others do legitimately hate it. There is a minor bit of fanboy influence in the denial, though definitely not like the influence you think came purely from fanboyism.

FB3

So you're saying that you hate to see a good game do well? Why can't you just give a good game credit? What's wrong with liking a video game. There really is no legitimate "hate" for this game; you are just trying to justify fanboyism. Give credit where it belongs, and don't go into fanboy mode like you did in your post. You have established in your post that you are a pure fanboy. "PoS3"? Yeah. You're one of the peope he is talking about.

Also, no one says "We got MGS4 and you don't!" Most of the threads made about this game are from fanboys trying to discredit the game and failing.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

Ugh.

I wouldn't even care enough to post my complaints about the storytelling in the game if it weren't for the people who think that it's perfect in all ways, and anyone who says anything remotely negative is a biased hater who doesn't own the game.

It's hard to imagine how anyone could say it's a bad game, but it's not a relevatory experience that will revolutionize the third-person action genre forever. It's not an 11 out of 10. It's exceptional and unique, but it has some very acute flaws.

X_CAPCOM_X

Your problem comes in where you base your whole criticism of the game off of little trivial nitpicked flaws rather than what the game did well. If everyone started from the negative edge the way you did in this post, nobody would ever enjoy anything. I find it funny that you did that, because it's not hard to see what the game did well. Nobody thinks it's perfect in all ways, but it is a great achievement.

Well, I'm only coming at it from a more negative slant because I'm responding to the people who only come at it from a positive standpoint, and refuse to acknowledge that any flaws could possibly exist. Any opposing response to a completely positive statement has to be more negatively slanted than a completely neutral statement would be.

I don't think my legitimate criticisms are trivial flaws. The story is practically half the game, and the way it is communicated is an issue, especially if it's literally putting some people to sleep. That doesn't mean that they're experience-destroying flaws, though, or that they outweigh what KojiPro has achieved in the game itself.

I could go on at length about how good the gameplay is in MGS4, how open-ended it feels, how much smoother the controls are, how many options you have, how much many gameplay elements have been improved. I just don't feel like there's much need for that perspective, because I'd just be restating what so many other reviews and posters have already mentioned. In the face of the overwhelmingly laudatory response to MGS4, though, and in an environment that seems hostile to any kind of criticism of the game, I feel that someone needs to point out the flaws that exist, in the interest of having a more balanced perspective on the boards, and in the interest of fostering actual discussion.

It's also obvious that if it were a 360 only title that they would be gloating that it was another great AAA title for the 360 and the PS3 was done. They like whatever is on 360 and shun anything on PS3 and they'll spin it however they need to in order to make the PS3 look less appealing. Next week with the 2.4 update with trophies and leveling players 1-50 along with in-game XMB, PSN will be very-very close to Xlives equal and continue to be free of charge. I'm sure Lems will downplay it and spin it in their favor too.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

Ugh.

I wouldn't even care enough to post my complaints about the storytelling in the game if it weren't for the people who think that it's perfect in all ways, and anyone who says anything remotely negative is a biased hater who doesn't own the game.

It's hard to imagine how anyone could say it's a bad game, but it's not a relevatory experience that will revolutionize the third-person action genre forever. It's not an 11 out of 10. It's exceptional and unique, but it has some very acute flaws.

X_CAPCOM_X

Your problem comes in where you base your whole criticism of the game off of little trivial nitpicked flaws rather than what the game did well. If everyone started from the negative edge the way you did in this post, nobody would ever enjoy anything. I find it funny that you did that, because it's not hard to see what the game did well. Nobody thinks it's perfect in all ways, but it is a great achievement.

Partially because the PoS3 fanboys were shoving the game's success in everyone else's faces ("oh we gotz mgs4 an u dun't loosers haha!"). Many of them seem to be angry at those guys and are fighting back. Also, remember that the entire series is love it or hate it. Either you like the way it plays out or you don't. It also seems like some of your type doesn't realize that fact either and can't stand to see Metal Gear Solid bashed. You may love it, others do legitimately hate it. There is a minor bit of fanboy influence in the denial, though definitely not like the influence you think came purely from fanboyism.

FB3

So you're saying that you hate to see a good game do well? Why can't you just give a good game credit? What's wrong with liking a video game. There really is no legitimate "hate" for this game; you are just trying to justify fanboyism. Give credit where it belongs, and don't go into fanboy mode like you did in your post. You have established in your post that you are a pure fanboy. "PoS3"? Yeah. You're one of the peope he is talking about.

Also, no one says "We got MGS4 and you don't!" Most of the threads made about this game are from fanboys trying to discredit the game and failing.

What's wrong with disliking it? I do actually like the Metal Gear Solid series, you know. Still, I can see the other side's point of view and it isn't always fanboyism. I do agree that a good bit of this denial is from the fanboys, though I wish people would realize that you can't please everyone, and Metal Gear Solid has always been that way as well. It is truly a love-it-or-hate-it game. Some people love the cinematic experience, and I do as well, though I know that many people don't like it. Comments I've seen from non-fans are legitimate and it's all taste. I know I love it, and I know others don't.

(As for the PoS3 thing, I personally dislike the way Sony is handling the console, though I can accept that it has some excellent games on it like Metal Gear Solid 4. I have an opinion against the console though I'm open-minded about its games and can easily see the flaws that Microsoft has with the Xbox 360. I have an opinion, yet I'm still open about its games. Anyways, that's besides the point.) And really, those kinds of threads have died down, though back at the release of the game this forum is filled with those kinds of threads. (System Wars does go through those phases, like right now I see the PC gamers coming out more about Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and the likes.)

It's also obvious that if it were a 360 only title that they would be gloating that it was another great AAA title for the 360 and the PS3 was done. They like whatever is on 360 and shun anything on PS3 and they'll spin it however they need to in order to make the PS3 look less appealing. Next week with the 2.4 update with trophies and leveling players 1-50 along with in-game XMB, PSN will be very-very close to Xlives equal and continue to be free of charge. I'm sure Lems will downplay it and spin it in their favor too.

[QUOTE="Albanian_Killa"]

Why so much denial that MGS4 is an amazing game? I hear people claiming they've played it. Really now?

These are the same people that hate the PS3 with a passion. They say the cut scenes are long. Any reviewer will say that the cut scenes in MGS4 are at perfect length. Obviously, if you people understood the story, you would love every second of the cut scenes. Too bad you don't. This is another reason why MGS4 will never appear on the 360, 360 owners don't understand the game or the story.

Now, they say that there's no gameplay in MGS4. Surely you have to be an idiot to say that. The game has a lot of gameplay. 75% of the game is gameplay. There's amazing infiltration missions where you need to get somewhere. You can go anyway you want, but I prefer taking my time doing it stealthy. There's huge boss battles that are amazing. And everything you can ever wish for. Saying MGS4 has too many cut scenes shows your ignorance of understanding of the game.

Secondly, the graphics. I see people here comparing the graphics saying they suck. First of all, MGS4 needs to be experienced in motion and you will be amazed by the game. Secondly, the cut scenes run in real time, no CGI.

I just hate it when people here claim they've played it, say it sucks when they don't understand what kind of game it is. Honestly 360 fanboys, why so much denial? Just because it's never coming to your console it automatically sucks? A certain 360 fanboy who we all know refers himself to "Lemming General" has stated this. I find it sad.

FB3

Partially because the PoS3 fanboys were shoving the game's success in everyone else's faces ("oh we gotz mgs4 an u dun't loosers haha!"). Many of them seem to be angry at those guys and are fighting back. Also, remember that the entire series is love it or hate it. Either you like the way it plays out or you don't. It also seems like some of your type doesn't realize that fact either and can't stand to see Metal Gear Solid bashed. You may love it, others do legitimately hate it. There is a minor bit of fanboy influence in the denial, though definitely not like the influence you think came purely from fanboyism.

I do not think anyone would take you serious if you refer to the PS3 as PoS3...

[QUOTE="Pinkyimp"]

it is an amazing game..but, Cows need to realize that this is not the "end all be all" game, while it is good, its not that one game that everyone will be killing themselves about..im sick of hearing MGS4 being the greatest game ever and passed off as fact on this board

so far in the past 2 weeks ive heard the fallowing

MGS4 is the greatest game ever

MGS4 is graphics king.

MGS4 ownes 360's lineup.

MGS4 is better than every 360 exclusive because it got a 10

and this list goes on...

Its good..its great..its amazing...but it not everyones cup of tea..and im tired of cows passing it off like it is.

jknight5422

Yes. Yes! The fanboy bunk works both ways. Right now we're hearing Cow Fanboys complain about the rantings of the 360 Fanboys & yet, even though they are dissing the 360 Fanboys, they're just showing how much of a Cow they really are with all the constant plusses they continually tack onto that Gnarly Geezer of a game, MSG4.

We should probably point out how Sorny is imitating 360's achievement point system, losing $3 billion on hardware sales, & only produces one half-way decent game per year...not to mention losing all of those precious JRPGs. Lastly, but importantly, seeing a 360 Dev Kit in the MSG4 DVD video in Hideo Kojima's office where they are probably actively working on a new IP (maybe exclusive for the 360?).

In sum, the fanboyery cuts both ways.

We should also point out Operation Darkness got a 1.2 on IGN.

[QUOTE="jknight5422"]

[QUOTE="Pinkyimp"]

it is an amazing game..but, Cows need to realize that this is not the "end all be all" game, while it is good, its not that one game that everyone will be killing themselves about..im sick of hearing MGS4 being the greatest game ever and passed off as fact on this board

so far in the past 2 weeks ive heard the fallowing

MGS4 is the greatest game ever

MGS4 is graphics king.

MGS4 ownes 360's lineup.

MGS4 is better than every 360 exclusive because it got a 10

and this list goes on...

Its good..its great..its amazing...but it not everyones cup of tea..and im tired of cows passing it off like it is.

sakura_Ex

Yes. Yes! The fanboy bunk works both ways. Right now we're hearing Cow Fanboys complain about the rantings of the 360 Fanboys & yet, even though they are dissing the 360 Fanboys, they're just showing how much of a Cow they really are with all the constant plusses they continually tack onto that Gnarly Geezer of a game, MSG4.

We should probably point out how Sorny is imitating 360's achievement point system, losing $3 billion on hardware sales, & only produces one half-way decent game per year...not to mention losing all of those precious JRPGs. Lastly, but importantly, seeing a 360 Dev Kit in the MSG4 DVD video in Hideo Kojima's office where they are probably actively working on a new IP (maybe exclusive for the 360?).

In sum, the fanboyery cuts both ways.

We should also point out Operation Darkness got a 1.2 on IGN.

What would be the point in that? That game was never hyped. Unlike Haze and Lair, which were hyped to high heaven, and were disasters.

[QUOTE="sakura_Ex"][QUOTE="jknight5422"]

[QUOTE="Pinkyimp"]

it is an amazing game..but, Cows need to realize that this is not the "end all be all" game, while it is good, its not that one game that everyone will be killing themselves about..im sick of hearing MGS4 being the greatest game ever and passed off as fact on this board

so far in the past 2 weeks ive heard the fallowing

MGS4 is the greatest game ever

MGS4 is graphics king.

MGS4 ownes 360's lineup.

MGS4 is better than every 360 exclusive because it got a 10

and this list goes on...

Its good..its great..its amazing...but it not everyones cup of tea..and im tired of cows passing it off like it is.

BioShockOwnz

Yes. Yes! The fanboy bunk works both ways. Right now we're hearing Cow Fanboys complain about the rantings of the 360 Fanboys & yet, even though they are dissing the 360 Fanboys, they're just showing how much of a Cow they really are with all the constant plusses they continually tack onto that Gnarly Geezer of a game, MSG4.

We should probably point out how Sorny is imitating 360's achievement point system, losing $3 billion on hardware sales, & only produces one half-way decent game per year...not to mention losing all of those precious JRPGs. Lastly, but importantly, seeing a 360 Dev Kit in the MSG4 DVD video in Hideo Kojima's office where they are probably actively working on a new IP (maybe exclusive for the 360?).

In sum, the fanboyery cuts both ways.

We should also point out Operation Darkness got a 1.2 on IGN.

What would be the point in that? That game was never hyped. Unlike Haze and Lair, which were hyped to high heaven, and were disasters.

You must be blind,look at his sig.