Why so much hate for FF12 and FF13????

top it off with very sub-par graphicsWasdie

Wow some people have so much hate for 13 like if 13 was a real person and did something horrible to their family. I also hear alot of love for 10 but I honestlycouldint stand it mainly cause half was a very very very forced love story that gave me a headace and made me want to vomit especially the underwater "romantic secne" that was in the game. I would choose 13 over it any day of the week. Not to say 10 was bad,but that part of the game turned me off so dam much.

finalfantasy94

Awww... you don't like kissy-kissy scenes huh? :D

This was my same reaction when I was 12 and played that part. I didn't like FF X the first time I played it. I played again last year (I was 16 years old at that time) and I really enjoyed it. But still, that scene was uber cheesy so I switched off the TV screen (yes, I switched off the TV screen).

:D

Although I haven't played FF13 yet, I didnt like the combat system in FF12, I wouldnt say it was bad but it wasn't the same combat system as the previous games and it just threw me off the game completely, I might have liked it if it had a name other than Final Fantasy.

FFXII was just a different structure that was either love or hate. FFXIII was just utter, linear, bloated trash. When it takes 20 hours for a game to start picking up, you know there are some serious problems. Throw in probably the worst written characters in the entire Final Fantasy series and top it off with very sub-par graphics, and you have for one of the most boring JRPGs ever made.

Wasdie

Did you get the 360 version by chance?

*To 360 fans*

Nope, I'm not a 360 hater. FF 13 is one of the few games that are much better on the PS3. The 360 version is not even HD.

Their flaws are overblown.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

i don't get what you mean by no story in 12, its not a character driven story but there is still plenty there. on another note, i didn't like 12, I never found that magic area which made the game feel just right, it was either too easy with gambits, to hard without gambits and fast battle, or horribly slow with no gambits and slow battle (also easy). The combat system feels like it wants to be like a balders gate / dragon age gameplay but just doesn't hit the nail on the head.

JLF1

My problem with the story was that it was focused in the wrong people. It's never really interesting. The only time it starts to get interesting the game suddenly ends.

It's true that the characters I'm running around with aren't actually important for the overall world. They're essentially messengers. I have no problem with the fact that my characters aren't really changing anything. The problem I have is that the developers used that as an excuse to not have any character development in the game. I'm still playing around with them for 80h, the should do something interesting in that time. A lot of people have used that poor excuse for the game in all these years. If the story wasn't character driven as you say then why am playing with these characters at all?

I was actually really excited about the story in this game. I was hoping for an outside perspective in the world from characters like the main characters you play as. It would have been really interesting too see how the characters react and feel when the world changes around them and they can't really do anything to stop it.

Look at Saving Private Ryan. The characters in that film are pointless in the overall outcome of the war yet it's still one of the most moving and gripping war films ever produced. I wanted something like that from FFXII. Instead I got a boring and dull political story that nothing happens in, characters that are life-less and the gameplay of an MMO.

I think it has less to do with the characters having importance to the plot, and more to do with nothing actually happening. The game spends up until the stillshrine of miram to set up the story, but after that it doesn't really do anything with it. The party spends a long trek towards Arcadia to fight a villain the characters fiercely oppose, despite a real lack of justification ... but the journey is ultimately fruitless and serves no other purpose than to eat up game time. "History in the hands of man" is repeated over and over again, but it never really expands from there. The Occuria do add another layer to the plot, but when they're introduced to the party they don't sway the progression of the game in a different direction. And then it ends. For a story that is about a princess reclaiming her kingdom and a group of adventurers that journey with her, it's uneventful. Instead of being dramatic and exciting, the throne is reclaimed through a series of fetch quests in obscure locations with limited contact.

The characters could have been handled well, they just weren't given a chance to because the scenario they were in didn't give them a chance to shine. Moreover, they almost never had them talk to each other during the journey or explain their emotions, so when they finally showed them they felt out of place and there was a false sense of comradery.

The funny thing about FFXIII is that it pretty much did the same thing as FFXII with Chapters 10 and 11 - the characters went on a journey for no real purpose where nothing really happened and then the game ended.

Personally I loved FFXII despite a lot of the flaws the game contained. As for FFXIII it is the only main stream FF title I didn't beat.. I tired to force myself to beat the game just because of the fact I payed full price for the game.

FF12 I hated how they reused a world from Tatics I mean Ivalice...to me it felt like Square just litterally ran out of ideas and I hated the stupid license system.

As for FF13, I don't know.

LegatoSkyheart

Final Fantasy 12 was fun, while 13 is mega boring!

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

FF12 I hated how they reused a world from Tatics I mean Ivalice...to me it felt like Square just litterally ran out of ideas and I hated the stupid license system.

As for FF13, I don't know.

jasonharris48

Their Connection was a turn off from me.

Tatics was Great but to see that it was the same Area in 12 just turned me off from the series.

I don't think the Ivalice in FFXII felt at all like the Ivalice in the original FFT.

Did you get the 360 version by chance?

*To 360 fans*

Nope, I'm not a 360 hater. FF 13 is one of the few games that are much better on the PS3. The 360 version is not even HD.

fend_oblivion

I got the 360 version and I thought the game looked amazing.

Their flaws are overblown.

hakanakumono

And agreed. I find it funny how people complain about a "20 hour tutorial" in FFXIII. The first part of FFXIII isn't very hard, no, but I''ve been playing FFVII and the first 20 hours of that game were a breeze, too. The only thing that killed me once was Lost Number, and that boss is optional anyways .I could play FFVI, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, etc. and have no issues winning battles.

And the linearity wasn't that bad. There were pplenty of seperate paths offering treasure or more monsters to fight. I remember some occasions where some locations would be circular, and sometimes you'd jump across things or go up elevators, etc. Honestly if FFXIII didn't have the radar in the corner the game would probably feel much less linear.

And people complain about no towns and no NPCs. Which is just being nitpicky. The only point of towns in previous games was to buy stuff, pretty much, and you can still buy stuff in FFXIII. If anything, being able to purchase things at save points is much nicer than at towns; it's much more convenient. besides, there are still NPCs at certain points in the game you can listen to, the only difference in FFXIII is is that you don't have to press a button to have them say stuff.

I don't think the Ivalice in FFXII felt at all like the Ivalice in the original FFT.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

FF12 I hated how they reused a world from Tatics I mean Ivalice...to me it felt like Square just litterally ran out of ideas and I hated the stupid license system.

As for FF13, I don't know.

LegatoSkyheart

Their Connection was a turn off from me.

Tatics was Great but to see that it was the same Area in 12 just turned me off from the series.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I don't think the Ivalice in FFXII felt at all like the Ivalice in the original FFT.

jasonharris48

I know, I was contesting that them being in the same world really meant any sort of stagnation.

FF 12 had a great battle system and great world but - the story sucked. Period. Half the time it's some political crap that barely makes sense (atleast to me it doesn't). Hate the stuff. Characters are terrible. I know you are a widow Ashe but why the mini-skirt that's about 3 inches long?! And Fran... go back to Playboy. The music was not memorable and very dull. Graphics were amazing.

How do Vieras reproduce if their entire race consists of females? Question of the century.

FF 13 - super linear. I don't know whose idea was it to make this game super linear but it was a stupid, stupid move. Sidequests were boring. Killing creatures repeatedly is not fun. It was basically a repeat of the Mark system in 12. How about something along the lines of Blitzball (FF X)? Story was decent but some of the characters needed to get shot. Vanille and Serah should die painfully with a time loop. SE should have stuck with the original idea of each character having one magic ability instead of everyone being the same with the Paradigm system. (I think Lightning only had the Gravity magic in the E3 vids.) I LOVED the music in FF 13 : Masashi Hamauzu did a great job. My personal favorite tracks were Snow's Theme and Blinded By Light.

FF X was linear but atleast the story, sidequests (loved Blitzball) and characters were good.

No more crystals you hear me SE? NO CRYSTALS :evil:

fend_oblivion

From what i remember way back, there are male Vieras. But they are in the deepest of forest and never go to human cities or places where humans can visit.

Just found this from the FF wiki

"Male viera do exist, contrary to popular belief, however they have never been depicted in the series and live apart from the female viera"

"The viera live deep within the woods; male and female viera live separately from each other and only make contact and communication when the need arises, though this may not be necessary due to their lifespan which is three times that of humes"

because they are getting further & further away from the game mechnics that FF was made from.

FF died with the PS1.

Though I did enjoy exploring in FF12, it didn't feel like an FF game. Too bad it was so horribly tedious.

Didnt like the combat in either game.

I never hated 12. In fact it is one of my top favorite FF games, top five actually. FF XIII isn't, and that's because 12 took such big giant leaps for the genre, made the game really fun, deep, and made so many changes and fixes to the series, I had hoped FF XIII would evolve on them in some way, instead it felt like it took one step forward, two steps back.

12 was amazing, one of the best FF games period. Loved every minute, but the story could have used some work.

13 gets a lot of flak, some of it deserved, but most of it is completely overblown. I mean dat battle system, one of the best in the series; very underappreciated.

Slashkice

I loved that it was faster paced, and more involved. Also it did get rid of the hidden turn-based system that was in 12's. However, I also was disappointed at finding out this system pretty much involved a simple flowchart to win victory for even the most difficult of battles.

1. Buff/Debuff > Attack to raise Stagger (Heal when necessary) > Stagger = Win > If opponent is still alive, re-buff/debuff and repeat.

Also the paradigm system was a lame way to limit classes. I enjoyed having the abilities I needed in the game, it never felt like I was over powered in any situation, and frankly it was just a bad way to simplify the game I felt. Why bother going through menus of commands when you just limit what's useable and make it easer. Also, yes, I get there were strategy/bonus elements the developers want to incorporate/the system offered. However, the thing was just a crutch to the battles. It made them longer, (along with the stupid High HP count for all enemies) and battles weren't really anymore "harder" than it was annoying I felt.

Also, I won't go on about the auto-battle but at least with Gambits, I could control my team to make them do what I want. Having no control on my teammates was annoying and still is. I like planning my attacks and stuff, setting up.

I never played FFXIII, though what I saw at a friends' house did very little to impress me.

FFXII I didn't like for several reasons. The story was rather dull, I cared nothing for any of the characters compared to previous FFs, and it just didn't compel me to play. I still gave it around 35-40 hours, but when I realized I was just playing to play and not really having fun or enjoying the characters / plot, I called it quits. I just feel that the quality of the series really took a nosedive with the Enix merge. I personally have not enjoyed any FF title produced by Enix nearly as much as the Squaresoft predeccesors.

I disliked most of the characters, especially Vaan in 12. Liked the gameplay though.

FF 13 I liked the characters but disliked the gameplay.

If only theyd learn from eachother.

I might be wrong but I don't think 12 was as hated by both fans and critics as much as FF13. FF12 is actually one my favorite Final Fantsy's after tactics,dispite the vast changes it still felt like a final fantasy. The characters in XII were much beter than the emo misfits of 13 as well.

I enjoyed Final Fansty XII. The story, the characters, and the world all interested me. I loved the open feeling of the game and like most Final Fantasy games, it was a visual treat. Final Fantasy XIII, however, was simply no good. The characters were boring and uninteresting, the game play was monstrously linear and repetitive, offering almost no down time in between fights, and the story was unfocused and poorly paced. I think the only things I enjoyed about it before having to put it down out of mind-numbing boredom were Sazh and the visuals.

Xbox 360 ruined FF13

12 was decent, but compared to X, its garbage

FFX was the last good FF

I'm 10 hours into FFXIII (got it for 17 bucks at Target on Black Friday). I'm enjoying it so far. Sure it's linear, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It would be better if there were some towns or something. The universe seems pretty small. That's my biggest gripe.musicalmac

I don't see why the game needs twons. The only thing you ever did in them anyways was buy stuff and maybe talk to pointless, bland NPCs. Seeing as how you can buy stuff at save points (which is more convenient than waiting for towns), and seeing as how there are points where you can listen to NPCs talking throughout the game. I fail to see the gripe with FFXIII having no towns.

And The only reason why FFXIII feels so linear is because it's from a First-person view instead of overhead view, and there's a map in the corner to show you where to go. Otherwise there are still plenty of alternate paths to be had in the game. Without the map, there would be multiple times where you wonder which way leads to treasure or more fights, or which path is the main path.

I enjoyed FFXII a lot. I just listened to some of the songs played by a piano on youtube last night. Brings back memories.Mr_Cumberdale

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]I'm 10 hours into FFXIII (got it for 17 bucks at Target on Black Friday). I'm enjoying it so far. Sure it's linear, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It would be better if there were some towns or something. The universe seems pretty small. That's my biggest gripe.DJ-Lafleur

I don't see why the game needs twons. The only thing you ever did in them anyways was buy stuff and maybe talk to pointless, bland NPCs. Seeing as how you can buy stuff at save points (which is more convenient than waiting for towns), and seeing as how there are points where you can listen to NPCs talking throughout the game. I fail to see the gripe with FFXIII having no towns.

And The only reason why FFXIII feels so linear is because it's from a First-person view instead of overhead view, and there's a map in the corner to show you where to go. Otherwise there are still plenty of alternate paths to be had in the game. Without the map, there would be multiple times where you wonder which way leads to treasure or more fights, or which path is the main path.

I think it's a lot to do with the same reason why people say they hate Halo;

They think it's cool to hate.

I'm 10 hours into FFXIII (got it for 17 bucks at Target on Black Friday). I'm enjoying it so far. Sure it's linear, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It would be better if there were some towns or something. The universe seems pretty small. That's my biggest gripe.musicalmac

I don't see why the game needs twons. The only thing you ever did in them anyways was buy stuff and maybe talk to pointless, bland NPCs. Seeing as how you can buy stuff at save points (which is more convenient than waiting for towns), and seeing as how there are points where you can listen to NPCs talking throughout the game. I fail to see the gripe with FFXIII having no towns.

DJ-Lafleur

Xbox 360 ruined FF13

12 was decent, but compared to X, its garbage

FFX was the last good FF

HaloinventedFPS

Never completed 12 (but got to the end), and the game was pretty fun. I disliked the story more than the others though.

13 suffered from a number of issues, both in linearity and in terms of story. The character progression also left much to be desired (abandoning Hope's when it actually became interesting) and at least 2 of the main characters were annoying as all Hell.

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]I'm 10 hours into FFXIII (got it for 17 bucks at Target on Black Friday). I'm enjoying it so far. Sure it's linear, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It would be better if there were some towns or something. The universe seems pretty small. That's my biggest gripe.Dahaka-UK

I enjoyed Final Fantasy 12. Final Fantasy 13 is NOT a proper Final Fantasy game.Merex760

[QUOTE="Merex760"]I enjoyed Final Fantasy 12. Final Fantasy 13 is NOT a proper Final Fantasy game.musicalmac

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]I'm 10 hours into FFXIII (got it for 17 bucks at Target on Black Friday). I'm enjoying it so far. Sure it's linear, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It would be better if there were some towns or something. The universe seems pretty small. That's my biggest gripe.DJ-Lafleur

I don't see why the game needs twons. The only thing you ever did in them anyways was buy stuff and maybe talk to pointless, bland NPCs. Seeing as how you can buy stuff at save points (which is more convenient than waiting for towns), and seeing as how there are points where you can listen to NPCs talking throughout the game. I fail to see the gripe with FFXIII having no towns.

And The only reason why FFXIII feels so linear is because it's from a First-person view instead of overhead view, and there's a map in the corner to show you where to go. Otherwise there are still plenty of alternate paths to be had in the game. Without the map, there would be multiple times where you wonder which way leads to treasure or more fights, or which path is the main path.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]I'm 10 hours into FFXIII (got it for 17 bucks at Target on Black Friday). I'm enjoying it so far. Sure it's linear, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It would be better if there were some towns or something. The universe seems pretty small. That's my biggest gripe.yoshi_64

I don't see why the game needs twons. The only thing you ever did in them anyways was buy stuff and maybe talk to pointless, bland NPCs. Seeing as how you can buy stuff at save points (which is more convenient than waiting for towns), and seeing as how there are points where you can listen to NPCs talking throughout the game. I fail to see the gripe with FFXIII having no towns.

And The only reason why FFXIII feels so linear is because it's from a First-person view instead of overhead view, and there's a map in the corner to show you where to go. Otherwise there are still plenty of alternate paths to be had in the game. Without the map, there would be multiple times where you wonder which way leads to treasure or more fights, or which path is the main path.

But to some degree, isn't this like almost every Final Fantasy? Most Final Fantasy games have areas with a single main path and alternate paths that lead to treasure chests with dead ends. Sure, FFXIII doesn't have a world map and despite Gran Pulse being about as big as a World Map (surface area) there aren't nearly as many optional areas, but is that really enough to kill a game? Don't get me wrong, I think there are design issues with FFXIII. But does the degree of specifically "optional" content make or break a game?

Comparing FFXIII to FFXII is a little unfair because its the most nonlinear Final Fantasy to date.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

I don't see why the game needs twons. The only thing you ever did in them anyways was buy stuff and maybe talk to pointless, bland NPCs. Seeing as how you can buy stuff at save points (which is more convenient than waiting for towns), and seeing as how there are points where you can listen to NPCs talking throughout the game. I fail to see the gripe with FFXIII having no towns.

Barbie_Boy

Maybe. I don't really need towns as long as there are NPCs/other humans you see throughout the adventure, which in FFXIII you do see, that's all I need.