Why the PS3 isn't on top.

First off, look at my title. I didn't say losing, Floping, Failing, or Dying.

The PS3 isn't a complete failure. The System isn't perfect, but they did sell 2.5 million consoles so far, so there must be some type of market appeal.

One Way the PS3 could do better, is games. They need To BUY, or MAKE exclusives. Microsoft buys for 360 exclusives. Nintendo makes their own exclusives. Sony Just crosses it's fingers and hopes they will come. I know they don't have much income anymore, but take whats left and buy or make some exclusives! They didn't go bankrupt, they have the money, but for what ever reason, aren't using it right.

Another Area of Improvment is Price. I know the console it self is costly. But somethings they could do Is:

1. Lower Assembly/Labor prices
2. Cheaper Packaging
3. Lower Material pricing ( the acctual silicon and plastic used)
4. Outsourcing
5. Work on lowering Blu-ray pricing

Why is the PS3 considered a flop? They knew that they were big on Causuals. So the best way to get them again, would be to Put in something for everyone, right? Well, if they had done everything in a way that was Perfect, then the console would be insanely expensive. So they watered it down. Now, lets say your in a game store. Would you rather buy 4 15$ dollar games that suck, like Big Rigs, or one 60 dollar game that you think rocks. Same idea. Instead of Doing one thing, and doing it well, they became the Jack of All trades, but the Master of none.

    The Hardware, like the ability to render the games and process them? it's great, the same as the 360. The Capability to have great games? Its there. Blu-Ray too expensive for Devs? The Drive does read DVD 9. The system is solid, but needs help

It ain't on top because it's too expensive, and not one of its standout series have been released, nor has there been an original IP that can be classified as a strong system seller.the-very-best

Resistance and Motorstorm are both fun games. The problem is the majority of gamers don't play those types of games. 

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]It ain't on top because it's too expensive, and not one of its standout series have been released, nor has there been an original IP that can be classified as a strong system seller.Boba_Fett_3710

Resistance and Motorstorm are both fun games. The problem is the majority of gamers don't play those types of games.

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]It ain't on top because it's too expensive, and not one of its standout series have been released, nor has there been an original IP that can be classified as a strong system seller.Ibacai

Resistance and Motorstorm are both fun games. The problem is the majority of gamers don't play those types of games.

There's no doubt in my mind the 360 version will. The 360 and GTAIV alone will be less then the price of a PS3. 

[QUOTE="Ibacai"][QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]It ain't on top because it's too expensive, and not one of its standout series have been released, nor has there been an original IP that can be classified as a strong system seller.Boba_Fett_3710

Resistance and Motorstorm are both fun games. The problem is the majority of gamers don't play those types of games.

There's no doubt in my mind the 360 version will. The 360 and GTAIV alone will be less then the price of a PS3.

[QUOTE="Ibacai"][QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]It ain't on top because it's too expensive, and not one of its standout series have been released, nor has there been an original IP that can be classified as a strong system seller.Boba_Fett_3710

Resistance and Motorstorm are both fun games. The problem is the majority of gamers don't play those types of games.

There's no doubt in my mind the 360 version will. The 360 and GTAIV alone will be less then the price of a PS3.

I think the main reason will be because of the larger install base. I agree GTAIV is going to sell better on the 360 but I think many will be surprised at how well it does for the PS3. 

The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.Boba_Fett_3710

How about some1 buying a 20.000$ toy car ? 600$ is nothing compared to 20.000$ but since the ps3 costs 900 and they sell it for 600 its a good deal. The games will follow soon.

$600!

Thank you, that is all

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.arabi_89

How about some1 buying a 20.000$ toy car ? 600$ is nothing compared to 20.000$ but since the ps3 costs 900 and they sell it for 600 its a good deal. The games will follow soon.

What sort of logic is that?  The PS3 is not a toy car.  It is also no where near $20,000; however, you are correct that $600 is nothing compared to $20,000. Stay on point, we are taking about console games here, not the most expensive toy you can find.

Why the PS3 isn't top?

1. Expensive

2. Not enough games

Counteractions:

1. Lower the Price

2. Flood it with many games

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]It ain't on top because it's too expensive, and not one of its standout series have been released, nor has there been an original IP that can be classified as a strong system seller.Boba_Fett_3710

Resistance and Motorstorm are both fun games. The problem is the majority of gamers don't play those types of games.

shooters and racers? :? 

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

its a bit of myth that ps3 costs many times more.  the console costs more but remember what it gives.  Okay, lets say you buy fifteen games during the entire run of a console.  Lets say they average $50 a piece.  So that's $750 and that's a conservative number.  Add another $100 on controllers and accessories.  850. 850 + wii = $ 1100.  850 + xbox 360 + 200 for online (4years worth) = $1450.   850 + ps3 = $1450.  So ps3 and 360 are virtually tied, and the wii is right up there in cost.  Spending $1100 is in the same realm of $1450, whereas a lot more people think $600 is WAY more than $250.GunSmith1_basic

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

kungfuchaos

 Yea, this post takes the cake. There are definitely multiple reasons as to why the PS3 is doing a "meh" job at the moment.

Pointless thread, everyone knows. It was late, expensive and doesnt have enough games. Overhyping has killed its momentum and all this has lead to lost exclusives, and market share.

That it in a nut shell.

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

...

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

sony's response:
"A small number of older High Definition television sets found in the United States only have 1080i inputs for HD signals. Those televisions will currently only play some PS3 titles at 480p resolution. PS3 games render images at either 720p or 1080p for High Definition and you need 720p input on the TV to play select games that do not support 1080p. This is an issue on the side of the individual television sets, which do not accept 720p input, so when a game outputs an HD signal only at 720p, these select TVs have to display the game at 480p instead."

http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/forums/thread/248976/

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

But the HDTV penetration is growing fast - US 28%

http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2007/04/news-hdtv-penetration-at-28.html

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

True

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

Even last gen this titles were not exclusive - GTA was on XBox and PC too - RE was on DC,GC and PC - DMC was on PC too

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

I never think about people who stand behind such products. If I would, I wouldn't buy any games and consoles. The X360 only advantage was it's earlier launch. If it continues this way the Wii will outsell it by the end of the year.

kungfuchaos

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

kungfuchaos

so if someone got one of the frist HDTVs(even the ones sony made) that are 1080i only than they can't play the PS3 in HD?

The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.Boba_Fett_3710

2.5 million people already did including me in 6months since it's release.  So what's your point??

How was it " late" Was their a due date? Did Gamespot say " You all need a next gen system by october 06", Then Give Bill Gates a smiley Face sticker for finishing early?mathew952

[QUOTE="kungfuchaos"]

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

thenorminator

so if someone got one of the frist HDTVs(even the ones sony made) that are 1080i only than they can't play the PS3 in HD?

PS3 does support 1080i.....what the hell are you talking about?? If you only have a 1080i TV (this is what I have) than all the games that are supposed to be 1080p will play on 1080i.  And guess what, it looks frikkin' great!!!

Sometimes I wonder from where do these people get their facts....ohh yea they just pull them out from they ARRSS!!

[QUOTE="thenorminator"][QUOTE="kungfuchaos"]

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

HunAndras1984

so if someone got one of the frist HDTVs(even the ones sony made) that are 1080i only than they can't play the PS3 in HD?

PS3 does support 1080i.....what the hell are you talking about?? If you only have a 1080i TV (this is what I have) than all the games that are supposed to be 1080p will play on 1080i.  And guess what, it looks frikkin' great!!!

Sometimes I wonder from where do these people get their facts....ohh yea they just pull them out from they ARRSS!!

i was asking a question not making a statement. please re-read my post... thx:) norm

Like the TC said, PS3 while not being on top, isn't outright failing either. The reason other expensive consoles in the past failed (NeoGeo, 3DO, Jaguar, CDi) was more than just the price tag. They had very poor game selection, namely in the 3rd party support. Also they were 1st time entries into the market (with the exception of Jaguar that was Atari) with no fan base or name recognition.

They were trying to build their user base for the 1st time competing against established names (Nintendo and Sega) who had the game libraries including all the popular arcade hits, and were offering that at a lower price. True that all companies have to begin somehwere, but beginning at a steep price tag was an obstacle to growing the user base. Even though NeoGeo was mainly 1st party games, they had quite some good ones and I can remember wanting one, especially with those graphics that made SNES look like an Atari 2600... but when it came right down to it, I couldn't afford it. Price is very much a dominating factor consoles.

PS3 on the other hand has the established name, a user base developed over 2 generations, and even if slow to come out, a well known game library. BUT, even with all that, the cost is an detriment for both newcomers to the hobby, as well as last gen Sony gamers to be making the transition to the newest product.

Which brings me to something I've been wanting to ask the PS3 fans, and this seems like a good place to do it. You're used to Sony being on top with the PS1 and PS2, and PS3 is a good console. But can you accept that maybe this time around PS3 won't be 1st place in market share, and still appreciate the PS3 platform? Can you still enjoy the games and be proud PS3 owners even if it isn't in the #1 spot this generation? All this being hypothetical of course and not to be taken as a slam against the PS3 as a gaming console. 

[QUOTE="HunAndras1984"][QUOTE="thenorminator"][QUOTE="kungfuchaos"]

Why the PS3 isnt on top.....

1. No games worth a $600 investment at the moment

2. No 1080i support, downscales 1080i to 480p

3. HDTV penetration is probably only somewhere between 15-20% and very, very few of those who own a HDTV have one that is native 1080p which is the only reason to own a BluRay player!

4. Online service is in its infancy and cant compare with XBOX Live....yet

5. Alot of former Sony platform exclusive franchises are now multiplat..i.e. DMC, GTA, Resident Evil and others.

6. Frankly, I think alot of gamers are simply fed up with Sony's ability to under deliver on what they promise and also are tired of Sony's arrogance that only works in Japan. The 360 is simply destroying the PS3 in sales in EU, NA and other countries!

thenorminator

so if someone got one of the frist HDTVs(even the ones sony made) that are 1080i only than they can't play the PS3 in HD?

PS3 does support 1080i.....what the hell are you talking about?? If you only have a 1080i TV (this is what I have) than all the games that are supposed to be 1080p will play on 1080i.  And guess what, it looks frikkin' great!!!

Sometimes I wonder from where do these people get their facts....ohh yea they just pull them out from they ARRSS!!

i was asking a question not making a statement. please re-read my post... thx:) norm

I meant to say this to the other guy who stated that there is no 1080i support!  But the meanwhile I guess I answerd your question to!:)

I never think about people who stand behind such products. If I would, I wouldn't buy any games and consoles. The X360 only advantage was it's earlier launch. If it continues this way the Wii will outsell it by the end of the year.

Anyone who has even a cursory interest in console sales knows that the Wii is going to suplant the 360 soon as the market leader.   What we're really talking about it who is going to be in 2nd place... will brand loyalty and a much needed price drop help the PS3 gain ground, or will the 360 continue to outsell Sony's pricey console despite hardware issues?  That's what's at stake.  Nintendo has already won... and I'm not saying that in a self satisfied, fanboyish way.  It's obvious. 

Which brings me to something I've been wanting to ask the PS3 fans, and this seems like a good place to do it. You're used to Sony being on top with the PS1 and PS2, and PS3 is a good console. But can you accept that maybe this time around PS3 won't be 1st place in market share, and still appreciate the PS3 platform? Can you still enjoy the games and be proud PS3 owners even if it isn't in the #1 spot this generation? All this being hypothetical of course and not to be taken as a slam against the PS3 as a gaming console. 

AdobeArtist

That's a very good question and I will try to answer it unbiased. I have to say that I am a Sony fan. My consoles in the past were Sega Master System, Mega Drive(Genesis), NES, SNES, GameGear, GameBoy, Saturn, PS1, Dreamcast, PS2. Yes I can accept that the PS3 is not on top, but only if the game-potfolio is filled with the games that i like. The problem of this gen is that if I stay on one console I might miss some good exclusives on the other. For example Wii: Zelda, X360: Lost Odyssey, PS3: FFXIII... the list goes on. That's the reason i'm still on my PS2 and will not give it away till any of the nextgen consoles has a good amount of interesting games for me, that are not on PC too.

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.arabi_89

How about some1 buying a 20.000$ toy car ? 600$ is nothing compared to 20.000$ but since the ps3 costs 900 and they sell it for 600 its a good deal. The games will follow soon.

A $20,000 car is not a toy :roll: Its a car which is used to get from point A to point B. It serves a purpose, a games consoles only serves as entertainment.

First off, look at my title. I didn't say losing, Floping, Failing, or Dying.

The PS3 isn't a complete failure. The System isn't perfect, but they did sell 2.5 million consoles so far, so there must be some type of market appeal.

One Way the PS3 could do better, is games. They need To BUY, or MAKE exclusives. Microsoft buys for 360 exclusives. Nintendo makes their own exclusives. Sony Just crosses it's fingers and hopes they will come. I know they don't have much income anymore, but take whats left and buy or make some exclusives! They didn't go bankrupt, they have the money, but for what ever reason, aren't using it right.

Another Area of Improvment is Price. I know the console it self is costly. But somethings they could do Is:

1. Lower Assembly/Labor prices
2. Cheaper Packaging
3. Lower Material pricing ( the acctual silicon and plastic used)
4. Outsourcing
5. Work on lowering Blu-ray pricing

Why is the PS3 considered a flop? They knew that they were big on Causuals. So the best way to get them again, would be to Put in something for everyone, right? Well, if they had done everything in a way that was Perfect, then the console would be insanely expensive. So they watered it down. Now, lets say your in a game store. Would you rather buy 4 15$ dollar games that suck, like Big Rigs, or one 60 dollar game that you think rocks. Same idea. Instead of Doing one thing, and doing it well, they became the Jack of All trades, but the Master of none.

The Hardware, like the ability to render the games and process them? it's great, the same as the 360. The Capability to have great games? Its there. Blu-Ray too expensive for Devs? The Drive does read DVD 9. The system is solid, but needs help

mathew952

Pretty solid post, but the PS3 simply isn't a "flop" just because it didn't come out the gate and absolutely dominate overnight. Both of the other consoles were out with a firm foothold, we knew from the start they had a brawl on their hands. For the PS3 to have cracked 3 mill in the first half-year of release with very few great games, I'd say they're right on track. I hate to say "wait" because its becoming a PS3 cliche, but all of the big bad series that hooked people in the last gen haven't even been released yet. Resistance came right out of left field and its been keeping us happy, but we all bought the machine for the other big titles we've come to love; GTA, DMC, FF, MGS, GOW, R&C, AC, UT... when all of the heavy hitters like the aforementioned games and Halo come out, both systems will have a killer lineup and both will be worth the price tag, no question about it. 

The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.Boba_Fett_3710

Ok, as a Wii owner, you have grounds to say that the PS3 is overpriced, but then so is the 360. A $480 toy vs a $600 toy, if you're going to go that far, whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us. 

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.D_Znuhtz

Ok, as a Wii owner, you have grounds to say that the PS3 is overpriced, but then so is the 360. A $480 toy vs a $600 toy, if you're going to go that far, whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us. 

There isn't much point in paying $600 for a system where you can buy one very similar which is only worth $400, plus that system has more games out at the moment and more games lined up for the future. Plus they have not many exclusives. Their best exclusives have become multiplatform so the logic is that you should buy the cheaper system and still be able to get the same games plus more then you could get on the more expensive one.xTheExploited

The "best exclusives" are a subjective opinion. GTA, AC, UT were definitely some of the best exclusives we had, but I don't really care for DMC.  MGS, FF, R&C are all proven quantities with great track records, and they aren't going anywhere. God of War will make an outing on the PS3 as well, and I guarantee it will be a big deal.

whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us.  D_Znuhtz

Who spends 120 dollars at the bar?  I mean, I know 1 or 2 people, but they're hardcore alcoholics...

[QUOTE="D_Znuhtz"]

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.donalbane

Ok, as a Wii owner, you have grounds to say that the PS3 is overpriced, but then so is the 360. A $480 toy vs a $600 toy, if you're going to go that far, whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us.

Isn't the Elite outselling the other 2 SKUs right now? Also I'm comparing them because they have similar features. 

There isn't much point in paying $600 for a system where you can buy one very similar which is only worth $400, plus that system has more games out at the moment and more games lined up for the future. Plus they have not many exclusives. Their best exclusives have become multiplatform so the logic is that you should buy the cheaper system and still be able to get the same games plus more then you could get on the more expensive one.xTheExploited

The point is that not everyone likes all games on the X360. For example If I would be a father that wanted to buy a console for his son, I wouldn't go for the X360 and neither the PS3. I would go for the PS2, Wii or the DS. If It would be a girl I would go for the PS2 with Singstar... It all depends on what kind of person you are. Actually this is the reason why the Wii is selling so good and it was the reason why the PS2 sold good and still sells good. They appeal to a much broader gamerbase covering everything from hardcore to casual, from old to young. For that reason both the PS3 and X360 fail at the moment, we'll see if it will change in the future.

[QUOTE="donalbane"][QUOTE="D_Znuhtz"]

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.D_Znuhtz

Ok, as a Wii owner, you have grounds to say that the PS3 is overpriced, but then so is the 360. A $480 toy vs a $600 toy, if you're going to go that far, whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us.

Isn't the Elite outselling the other 2 SKUs right now? Also I'm comparing them because they have similar features. 

[QUOTE="D_Znuhtz"]whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us.  Jandurin

Who spends 120 dollars at the bar?  I mean, I know 1 or 2 people, but they're hardcore alcoholics...

Ok then go to a nightclub $20+ just to get in...a Long Island ICe tea is $14+ just dring like 4-5 you get there. And if you don't you always invite some buddies for a drink or two right??

[QUOTE="D_Znuhtz"]whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us. Jandurin

Who spends 120 dollars at the bar? I mean, I know 1 or 2 people, but they're hardcore alcoholics...

A better question would be, who doesn't spend 120 bucks going to the bar? Gas/transportation, drinks, drinks for the ladies, cigs if you're a smoker, beer munchies later, etc. A bar was just an example. Maybe you won't drop 120 dollars just on alcohol, but in a regular night on the town you can easily spend 120 bucks, and that has nothing to do with being an alcoholic. I spent 50 bucks on comics (sorry, graphic novels) yesterday. I simply don't think 120 bucks is a lot of money, and if you feel the BD drive, Wi-fi, etc are worth the money then its even less of a concern.

[QUOTE="donalbane"][QUOTE="D_Znuhtz"]

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]The PS3 is a good console, it's just too damn expensive. All videogame consoles are toys, nobody is going to buy a $600 toy.D_Znuhtz

Ok, as a Wii owner, you have grounds to say that the PS3 is overpriced, but then so is the 360. A $480 toy vs a $600 toy, if you're going to go that far, whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us.

Isn't the Elite outselling the other 2 SKUs right now? Also I'm comparing them because they have similar features.

can you link a source showing that Elite is outselling Premium? 

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="D_Znuhtz"]whats 120 bucks? A night at the bar? A concert + a case or two of beer? It's just not that big a price difference to many of us.  HunAndras1984

Who spends 120 dollars at the bar?  I mean, I know 1 or 2 people, but they're hardcore alcoholics...

Ok then go to a nightclub $20+ just to get in...a Long Island ICe tea is $14+ just dring like 4-5 you get there. And if you don't you always invite some buddies for a drink or two right??