Wii: The Great Satan of true gamers?

With all of the press from EA, Valve, etc. of late with their typical "We should pay more attention to the Wii", I see lots of bad things happening to gaming in the not so distant future.

Think about it: Game publishers are purely looking at this from a "how many consoles will company X have in the next 2-3 years" and they have a very flawed logic about this. They see the Wii as this cash cow, but a cash cow for who? The NPD numbers clearly show that the Wii, having at LEAST the same number of consoles out there as the 360, sells less than half as many games. Why is that? Because casuals rarely buy games. Because Hardcore gamers don't buy 5 hour minigames for $50.

Yet the corporate idiots at EA, Valve, Ubisoft, etc. pay attention to attach rates, the real measure of sales potential, about as much as they pay attention to the gamers themselves (hint: not very much).

Look, I like my Wii, and I hope to actually have fun games to play on it one day (besides wii sports). But I don't like it so much that I'd rather have game publishers force developers to work on Wii games over the 360 or even PS3. Why? Because yeah I might be in the minority who can afford to buy 2 or more $60 games every month, own a 100" HDTV projector, and have 7.1 surround, but damn Nintendo if they force the industry to water down the development on higher performance consoles.

true gamers like the satan... i mean the wii.

trOO gamers hate it because "it isnt hardcore"

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bossesto be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These gamesare requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

2. The reason why there's less back tracking is because it received alot of criticism in the previous prime games

[QUOTE="dracula_16"]

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

kansasdude2009

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

I didn't say the whole games was bad.. just that it requires less backtracking.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

I didn't say the whole games was bad.. just that it requires less backtracking.

it received alot of criticism especially in prime 2

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

kansasdude2009

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

I didn't say the whole games was bad.. just that it requires less backtracking.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

I didn't say the whole games was bad.. just that it requires less backtracking.

I didn't say that you said it was bad.... but it's still hard (thus "hardcore"... I suppose). Who cares if it has less backtracking (there is still a lot of it), it makes the game flow a lot better IMO. Especially when compared to Metroid Prime 2.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. I found some of Twilight Princess's bosses to be too easy, Metroid Prime 3 has less backtracking than other MP games, Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on vetran). Don't start with Prime 3.

I didn't say the whole games was bad.. just that it requires less backtracking.

You would of complained about the amount backtracking if a lotwas in the game anyway.:| I guarantee it.

With all of the press from EA, Valve, etc. of late with their typical "We should pay more attention to the Wii", I see lots of bad things happening to gaming in the not so distant future.

Think about it: Game publishers are purely looking at this from a "how many consoles will company X have in the next 2-3 years" and they have a very flawed logic about this. They see the Wii as this cash cow, but a cash cow for who? The NPD numbers clearly show that the Wii, having at LEAST the same number of consoles out there as the 360, sells less than half as many games. Why is that? Because casuals rarely buy games. Because Hardcore gamers don't buy 5 hour minigames for $50.

Yet the corporate idiots at EA, Valve, Ubisoft, etc. pay attention to attach rates, the real measure of sales potential, about as much as they pay attention to the gamers themselves (hint: not very much).

Look, I like my Wii, and I hope to actually have fun games to play on it one day (besides wii sports). But I don't like it so much that I'd rather have game publishers force developers to work on Wii games over the 360 or even PS3. Why? Because yeah I might be in the minority who can afford to buy 2 or more $60 games every month, own a 100" HDTV projector, and have 7.1 surround, but damn Nintendo if they force the industry to water down the development on higher performance consoles.

MrEpyx

Yet the corporate idiots at EA, Valve, Ubisoft, etc. pay attention to attach rates, the real measure of sales potential, about as much as they pay attention to the gamers themselves (hint: not very much).

MrEpyx

Actually, Valve specifically mentioned that they believe the Wii to have more value because it emphasizes gaming fundamentals over graphics and processing (this is all in the context of game design). This statement had nothing to do with the userbase of the Wii.

LINK (2nd paragraph from the bottom)

With all of the press from EA, Valve, etc. of late with their typical "We should pay more attention to the Wii", I see lots of bad things happening to gaming in the not so distant future.

Think about it: Game publishers are purely looking at this from a "how many consoles will company X have in the next 2-3 years" and they have a very flawed logic about this. They see the Wii as this cash cow, but a cash cow for who? The NPD numbers clearly show that the Wii, having at LEAST the same number of consoles out there as the 360, sells less than half as many games. Why is that? Because casuals rarely buy games. Because Hardcore gamers don't buy 5 hour minigames for $50.

Yet the corporate idiots at EA, Valve, Ubisoft, etc. pay attention to attach rates, the real measure of sales potential, about as much as they pay attention to the gamers themselves (hint: not very much).

Look, I like my Wii, and I hope to actually have fun games to play on it one day (besides wii sports). But I don't like it so much that I'd rather have game publishers force developers to work on Wii games over the 360 or even PS3. Why? Because yeah I might be in the minority who can afford to buy 2 or more $60 games every month, own a 100" HDTV projector, and have 7.1 surround, but damn Nintendo if they force the industry to water down the development on higher performance consoles.

MrEpyx

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on veteran). Don't start with Prime 3.

reyad-u

yes, Prime 3 is a TON more chaotic. Normal mode on Prime 3 is pretty easy, i'll give you all that, but bump it to Veteran and you can NOT complain about the difficulty. I'm guessing that Normal is so easy because Nintendo wanted new players to get into the franchise (which is good - because it rocks!), but bump it up and you have have some of the hardest boss fights I have ever seen @_@

Valve, a corporate idiot? Did I miss something?Supafly1

don't forget the corporate idiots over at Crytek... they are working with the Wii as well ;)

[QUOTE="reyad-u"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on veteran). Don't start with Prime 3.

kansasdude2009

yes, Prime 3 is a TON more chaotic. Normal mode on Prime 3 is pretty easy, i'll give you all that, but bump it to Veteran and you can NOT complain about the difficulty. I'm guessing that Normal is so easy because Nintendo wanted new players to get into the franchise (which is good - because it rocks!), but bump it up and you have have some of the hardest boss fights I have ever seen @_@

oh and thanks.

Wii as Satan?

That's a really far off comparison, especially seeing that Wii is the one WITHOUT mindless killing games.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="reyad-u"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on veteran). Don't start with Prime 3.

reyad-u

yes, Prime 3 is a TON more chaotic. Normal mode on Prime 3 is pretty easy, i'll give you all that, but bump it to Veteran and you can NOT complain about the difficulty. I'm guessing that Normal is so easy because Nintendo wanted new players to get into the franchise (which is good - because it rocks!), but bump it up and you have have some of the hardest boss fights I have ever seen @_@

oh and thanks.

yea, no problem. The thing that annoyed me most about the Metroid Prime 3 review is that they kept bashing the difficulty. I think they probably played it on normal. Also, if you want to make it harder, try and beat bosses and enemies without your PED suit... although sometimes your forced to.

There are a lot of ways to make the game harder for yourself if you really care that much, but Veteran provides a great deal of challenge all by itself. Not to mention an even harder mode once you finish the game.

[QUOTE="reyad-u"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="reyad-u"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]

Metroid Prime 3 is FREAKIN HARD! (on veteran). Don't start with Prime 3.

kansasdude2009

yes, Prime 3 is a TON more chaotic. Normal mode on Prime 3 is pretty easy, i'll give you all that, but bump it to Veteran and you can NOT complain about the difficulty. I'm guessing that Normal is so easy because Nintendo wanted new players to get into the franchise (which is good - because it rocks!), but bump it up and you have have some of the hardest boss fights I have ever seen @_@

oh and thanks.

yea, no problem. The thing that annoyed me most about the Metroid Prime 3 review is that they kept bashing the difficulty. I think they probably played it on normal. Also, if you want to make it harder, try and beat bosses and enemies without your PED suit... although sometimes your forced to.

There are a lot of ways to make the game harder for yourself if you really care that much, but Veteran provides a great deal of challenge all by itself. Not to mention an even harder mode once you finish the game.

I bought a wii the day it came out. I'm not going to lie I haven't touched thing thing in a while but I still think we can get some great games out of it as far as first person shooters go (I personally bought the wii for the hopes of playing shooters and the super smash bros.) The new resident evil game looks pretty cool. Besides that the wii is played by my friends and I after a long night of bar hoping, so I can understand the casual arguement because that is how I play my wii. As far as the new metroid game goes, I liekd the old one better but the score gamespot gave it was weak for how the game played.

stuff

laughingman42 and kansasdude2009 and reyad-u

With all of the press from EA, Valve, etc. of late with their typical "We should pay more attention to the Wii", I see lots of bad things happening to gaming in the not so distant future.

Think about it: Game publishers are purely looking at this from a "how many consoles will company X have in the next 2-3 years" and they have a very flawed logic about this. They see the Wii as this cash cow, but a cash cow for who? The NPD numbers clearly show that the Wii, having at LEAST the same number of consoles out there as the 360, sells less than half as many games. Why is that? Because casuals rarely buy games. Because Hardcore gamers don't buy 5 hour minigames for $50.

Yet the corporate idiots at EA, Valve, Ubisoft, etc. pay attention to attach rates, the real measure of sales potential, about as much as they pay attention to the gamers themselves (hint: not very much).

Look, I like my Wii, and I hope to actually have fun games to play on it one day (besides wii sports). But I don't like it so much that I'd rather have game publishers force developers to work on Wii games over the 360 or even PS3. Why? Because yeah I might be in the minority who can afford to buy 2 or more $60 games every month, own a 100" HDTV projector, and have 7.1 surround, but damn Nintendo if they force the industry to water down the development on higher performance consoles.

MrEpyx

This stuff about casuals buying less games is BS.

Resident Evil 4, Mario Party 8, Super Paper Mario, Legend of Zelda, Wii Play, Wii Sports, Dragon Quest Swords (Japan), Red Steel, and soon to be Metroid Prime 3 have sold over a million copies. Maybe Wario Ware too.

But thats 8 for sure million selling games in 8 months.

Hmm, casuals don't buy games. "well they buy kiddy games not hardcore games!"

Hello, Super Paper Mario is a very good platformer/RPG that is by no means easy or casual. Resident Evil 4 is one of the greatest games of all time and by no means the definition of your "casual", Legend of Zelda is in no way casual, Metroid Prime 3, well if you say thats casual you are a anti-wii fanboy.

DQ Swords in Japan has been selling very well. It is by no means a casual game. Its based of the tried and true RPG franchise of the same name.

And for better or worse Red Steel is not a casual game. You can't casually play that. You must have patience and be able to put up with alot of holes though there is brightspots.

I look forward to Valve's future Wii projects and its just a matter of time until everyone starts to realize that though they don't take the Wii seriously, the developers are taking notice.

I mean Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Godfather, Scarface, were all games GameCube wouldn't have gotten.

And do you think devs would make Zack & Wiki, Guitar Hero 3, No More Heroes, Manhunt 2, Bully for the GameCube either?

The thing is... Nintendo is slowly casualizing their own games. ... Mario Kart is supposed to allow "new players to be bumper to bumper with experienced players" according to Reggie.

These games are requiring less skill than previous games in their series.

dracula_16

When I heard Reggie say that I assumed that he meant that it had a new control scheme with the wii wheel. It's a level playing field because everyone has to start from square one. Maybe it will have a lot more new elements to the gameplay as well. I assume that the more skilled players will stillrise above the rest, it's just that a lot of those will be players who never played mariokart before. Some mariokart fans may not like this, of course, but I think it's the right move.

I hope I'm right, because you could be right too. Lots of computer assistance for the racers towards the end of the pack, simple course designs, etc.

of course the above is complete and utter rubbish.

wii wins because the market is sick and tired of really expensive consoles. most dont care about the fact that PS3 has the cell or that the 360 has unified shaders. most dont want to know. it offers games that alot of people like. and in time it will have more games that traditional gamers will also like. lets not forget the many great and epic games last gen, or the gen before that etc etc. wii can do the big and epic....the atmospheric and the deep. were not exactly dealing with a pocket calculator here. all it takes is a great dev.

wii has developer interest because its something a little different. any developer worth anything would at least be having a look at it, even if they have no plans to make anything for it (crytek have a kit that there playing around with.....no intention to make anything serious for a while though). for 2 gens it was about "how much can we squeez out of this hardware". with wii its "what can we do with this new controller?". a nice change of pace.

from a business standpoint wii is also very nice. cheaper development means more risks. yes there will be devs who try and do the quick and dirty and just cash in...just like they tried on the PS2. theyll try and get on the mini-game bandwagon, or the fitness bandwagon etc etc. but those markets will saturate quickly and it will be very risky to make those kind of games on wii. since they cant push graphics there cornered. eventually devs will have to take some serious risks if they want to succeed on wii. there will be failures, disasters eve, but with the lower investment required, its not a disaster. and the chances of finding thatnext great game, that game that makes everone sit up and take notice are higher.

and for gamers...it offers something different. its not a replacement for a PC or a 360 but rather a complimenting machine. it offers games that wouldnt happen on other machines. as a gamer of about 19 years now....i most certainly welcome the wii. it offers some pretty kewl games now (recently got trauma center.....brilliant) and that will improve in the future. and theyll play differently and behave differently. i want to see what devs do with it.

no platform is a threat to this industry or its long term customers...wii least of all. RE4 (a game released twice before) has sold over a million worldwide on wii. MP3 is likely to do very well. devs and publishers will be catering to as many markets as possible on wii if they have eny sense. the secret is to offer games on wii that just couldnt be done on another machine or just wouldnt make sense to do it. trauma center being a prime example......wouldnt work on another console because controller isnt suited to it.