Will Microsoft outlast Sony?

Except companies look at all the variables not just the end sales figure. So that doesn't come close to telling the whole story on whether a company is successful or not.

Should KFC pack up shop because MacDonald's has better sales? Xbox did damn good business last gen, So there's no need to be a smart ass about it.

I was thinking about starting a thread on this, and perhaps one day I will, but I just have to ask the question because I am honestly curious as to what the answer could be.

As a 360 owner or an XBone owner, how do you feel you have benefited from Microsofts financial status? What is it about Microsoft, as a company, that has benefited you as a gamer?

Every company is greedy dude, thats how companys make a profit ,lol

They've certainly used their clout to open areas of gaming and media, some of which they could have handled a bit better.

They've been pretty good with exclusives, I think they have been a little hit and miss with how they've dealt with that business, but I think they're picking up on it. Slowly but surely new Microsoft studios are cropping up.

They did a good job opening up XBLA last gen, and through competition with Sony they're likely going to improve that,

The online area is where gamers have benefited from their networking expertise and they've just kept going adding to it and unifying their services. Even the vast new Azure network. Although Forza is the only place we've had a glimpse of that service in it's element, it is early days. It's easy for a fanboy to criticise it, but it was never going to through out results instantly,

While Kinect may not have shown dividends yet on the X1, the new technology is decent and it show MS support peripherals and are actively looking into new technologies. Again, like the cloud system, I don't expect early results with it. But it's accuracy for example (the heart rate) thing, shows that to various degrees it could show up to be useful.

They have shown that they reinvest money, for example that ai game experiment 'The Path of Go' that may have had some involvement from Lionhead and was later released on XBLA.

I see where this question might be aiming for. But MS does reinvest money and bring new things. Yes I acknowledge Sony reinvest a lot and show it.

If you aimed this question at Nintendo, it might be harder to answer, because outside of the games they release, you don't really get the feeling they reinvest a lot of those vast profits they make or have made. They don't push online, ai, physics, hardware. I imagine they invest a fair bit in the controller but that's it.

That's a respectable answer. I'll have to ponder that.

So a tie is now == to Sony being ahead? You do know Sony posted it's 80+ million weeks after MS?

What does the year headstart have to do with anything? The Wii started a year behind and it had no problem passing the 360. Could I use the 360 selling almost nothing in Japan as an excuse? The PS3 sold 10m compared to 1.x for the 360. Face it, Sony finished in 3rd or at best tied for 2nd. That's a fail considering the market share and money they lost compared to the previous 2 gens.

What most fail to realise is that in this industry software sales matter more than hardware sales. Sony announced the PS4 turned a profit for every game sold. Software sold will give the bigger profit to sony, not hardware.

@kingtito: PS3 sold more consoles since those numbers were revealed. The only fail around here is you. Wii was 250 bucks, PS3 was 600 (twice the price of the cheapest 360, do the math.

Spoken by the guy who made multiple topics last gen. trying to claim Sony overtook MS for second place !

@Sagemode87: You are sad.

I’m sorry but Xbox One got nominated as product of the year 2014........PS4 is just games.... and more gamers are somehow attracted to the brand rather then what service it offers.

I for one was more attracted by Sony exclusives than PSN.

@shawn30:

Microsoft is 2nd in the worlds most valuable brands.....

Has 94,000 employees.

$72.93 Billion in sales....

A market cap of $234 Billion

Profit: $15billion

Cash at hand $68 billion

Sony 80th most valuable brand

160 000 employees

Market cap of $17 billion

$78 billion in sales

Profit : -$5,516.5 M

Cash at hand $19 billion.

Apple 1st most valuable company in the world with a market cap of $400+billion.

72 000 employees.

$164 billion in sales.

Cash on hand $137 billion.

Profit $41 billion.

Microsoft is doing what it takes to secure every exclusive game and time-exlcusive DLC they can afford, meaning any developer who could use the money will jump onboard. The industry is rough, and from a developer's perspective, it makes sense to take the money if it keeps them employed. That being said, it goes to show the irony in Sony marketing their system for gamers (as opposed to the One not necessarily focusing on gaming) when the One clearly has more games, and earlier DLC releases for games such as COD and BF4. Microsoft is paying franchises their cut for their loyalty. While Sony has a respectable system (and respectable sales to go with that system) what has Sony done in order to prove they are there for the gamer as opposed to Microsoft? What is going to keep Sony afloat other than the hype surrounding their system that is ironically not translating to a superior gaming experience? PS4 cameras have gone up in price (from $60 to $70) when when there's a huge gap of performance between it and the Kinect 2.0. As stated before, there are less games for the PS4 as of now. In my opinion, the only thing keeping the PS4 ahead of the Xbox One is the pricing and the controversy that it rode from E3 against Microsoft. As long as Microsoft puts money in the pockets of franchises that accept it, there is no reason to believe Microsoft won't outlast Sony. The truth is becoming more and more apparent. With the way thing are going, it seems that Microsoft cares a lot more for their gamers, as they are investing money in securing every opportunity. This is why Microsoft may very well outlast Sony.

No, you clearly haven't read what I said. It's the PS4 that is making more money than the X1. Nowhere was I talking about the entire Sony and Microsoft corporations as a whole.

True, Microsoft has a much bigger market capitalization value than Sony, which has lost significant amounts of shares over the years (due to its failing movie, music, mobile and electronic divisions). However, that's not the only measure of a company's size, but in terms of assets, Sony is still bigger:

Sony - $165.1 billion (¥14.21 trillion)

Microsoft - $142.4 billion

X360 finished last gen in THIRD place. The numbers are there. Look them up. PS3 edged it out by a hair, toward the end. But the Wii beat them both.

To troll emotionally invested lemming like you,and boy how the treads turned into fire..hahaha

Hell posters like Delta still hold tied to the xbox 360 been ahead..hahaha

Yeah because it wasn't $600 dollars you delusional lemming.,.

Not is not the same not appealing to a market,than people not buying your product because it cost to much, if the PS3 would have release on 2005 with $399 price tag like the 360,by now the history would be another even for the wii.

Yes sony loss there is no doubt about that,but MS didn't have a $600 unit 1 year latter else it would have fail even worse than the original xbox did,it was a $299 with a more powerful unit and the loss badly imagine with $600 price tad 1 year late,what sony did no other company has done it,they tied MS for second and even on its worst performance ever the sold more units,than the original xbox did,the GC,N64 Dreamcast and Saturn which were failed console that didn't even reach quart of what the PS3 did.

A fair point, then.

But lets give all the credit where its due and not overlook what in actuality caused the Vita to fall flat and hard;

>Lack of marketing and

>lack of IP's to captured profitable markets.

Although, I agree that Sony money/profits/revenue-wise, aren't in a stabilized condition where they can fancy to overspend more than they can afford to...they are cutting off the markets where they unfortunately failed to gain a foothold. And in return, the company has seen a boost in stock and in confidence from investors. And thus, they're managing with what they can salvage and seeing positive feedback from it.

I'd say its been more of a lack of "see-through" vision as to why Sony's been under-performing rather than a lack of product expansion.

Because the Xperia smartphones have been performing very well.

But again if we see the company from a bigger perspective, I can't disagree with everything you said.

Excuses excuses El Tormented. I see nothing but excuses coming from you cows.

Can lems also make the excuse of a $500 console with incredibly bad press for the reason the PS4 is selling better? It's not because of the games and it's definitely not because of the features.

Stop making excuses El Tormented, you just sound butthurt like all the other cows.

@slim70 said:

@StrongBlackVine said:

Xbox division will be dead or sold long before PlayStation brand is gone. Worst case is scenario is Apple, Samsung, Google etc acquire it. The fact that Microsoft can't put a weak Sony down this generation should you tell how incompetent the Xbox division is...

Microsoft vs Sony overall is a joke at this point.

Don't know what this is implying, but I said Sony's status as corporation is a joke compared to Microsoft. However PlayStation brand will outlive Xflop, even if it means being bought by another media giant. I stand by that.

Actually, Xperia phones haven't been performing well at all. Apple and Samsung were responsible for over 110% of the mobile industry's profits in 2013. That's made possible by losses for every other company in the market.

The Playstation 4 is doing much better than the XO for sure, no doubt. It seems to be winning in the market it cares about, the dedicated gamers.

My real point is that money is what's important, and MS has a whole lot more of it than Sony. If I had to bet on any console because of the company that owns it, I'd have to bet on MS.

That wasn't much of an accomplishment and doesn't change fact that Microsoft has not been able to bully their way to their way to the top in the home console market.

In markets where the competition has competition has equal or greater resources they get their asses stomped(see Zune, see Bing, see Windows Phone). Microsoft has been living off the same products for decades. Just old money desperate to relevant in a new way.

Inestostors want more money, Xbox doesn;t make as much as other areas, and is still not dominant. If I was an investor... someone who only cares about money, I could see why.

But given that xbox is now about music and video aswell, I don't see it going anywhere, it will run the entertainment section if Windows and Xbox alike.... it would be incredibly unlikely that they would get rid of it.

and correct me if I am wrong, but despite "whoever won" last generation, but Microsoft made more profit with Xbox Live GOLD alone than sony did with the playstation brand?

Also... BOTH do not make their companies huge money right?

Just because entertainment makes a loss, does not mean its not valuable. Both companies are DESPERATE for public attention... what better way than entertainment?

Sony .... losing money from all angles.... except insurance... they desperately need a win

Microsoft... is losing business to Apple and Google... and their late arrival to the tablet/phone market is damaging windows more than people like to think. Xbox brings microsoft to consumors... wether its phone/tablet/pc/console.

Hardware sales do not reflect overall profitability though do they.

How many times do you lems have to be spanked and taught?

Businesses are not charities. Each individual division in a company can be thought of as a separate company. The difference between the Xbox division and a small grocery down the street is that the Xbox division is subsidized by the profitability of the other divisions of Microsoft while the grocery was bought through a loan from a bank.

In either case, there needs to be some form of profits in order for the division or the grocery to continue to exist. The Xbox division will need to make enough money to recoup the money sunk into Xbox* while the grocery needs to make enough money to recoup the money borrowed + interest. It's the same concept.

The Xbox situation has only gotten worse with the billions spend on R&D for a weaksauce console and billions spent in advertising. That's not counting all the foregone revenue and profit they've lost due to lower software sales, lower LIVE subscriptions, and the promotional deals MS has been doing all throughout this gen so far. Just how much of a moneyhole do you think Xbox* is now? It's probably even worse than when it first started.

In my estimation, I'd put the Xbox division at $30 billion in the red. The Playstation division is probably now at $1 billion in the red.

That would be rather incorrect. Estimates on the XBox division before the XBox One launch had the overall effect of putting the XBox Division about 2B in the red if I remember correctly. Who knows what XBone has done, though. We won't know until the end of FY13. 30B is an incredibly far-fetched figure.

You're forgetting the $6 billion in R&D for the APU, bringing the figure to $8 billion.

They spent double that on advertising, so that's $20 billion.

The titanfall deal and advertising probably cost another $5 billion. Plus, they're now losing money on every console sold due to the titanfall bundle. Yes, $30 billion seems reasonable.

Sources for lower software sales and lower live subscriptions?? Otherwise you literally are just saying what you think....which frankly is meaningless.

Im equally capable of spouting a "grocery store" analogy and saying what I think.

Wow, here I am defending MS.. This is new.

Are you honestly saying they spend ten times as much money to advertise Titanfall as they did on the Kinect for 360?

£30 billion does not sound reasonable. At all.

Do you really need a source for that?

Xbone is losing in every country. Their marketshares in the UK and US, their 2 primary markets, have been halved.

Furthermore, in every dudebro shooter, there are more people playing on PS4 than there are on the 360 and the Xbone (Yeah, AND, not OR).

Who would've thought that multiplayer paywalls would have been one of the main weapons SONY is using against MS. Most gamers see no reason to hold 2 subscriptions, so they'll only subscribe to PSN, meaning they have no reason to own the Xbone. MS execs must be crying themselves to sleep these days.

I would just ignore the user at this point since he's an obvious alt trying to troll. I don't even think MS spent more than a couple hundred million to advertise and buy titanfall if what they spent on advertising and buying titanfall was connected to that $1 billion dollars they set aside for the xbox one.

Yes, it's not reasonable, which is why I doubt there will be a another Xbox console.

It's just impossible for Xbox to ever recoup that amount. With the PlayStation brand stronger than ever, MS will just keep losing money every generation from here on out.

Okay, maybe $30 billion was a slight exaggeration, but my point still stands that it's nearly impossible for the Xbox division to recoup the money spent on it.

We have linkedin profiles stating that the Xbone APU cost $6 billion in R&D. The controller cost $100 million. The Xbox division was already $2 billion in the red before the gen started, that puts it at $8.1 billion. Don't forget that MS spent a crapton on advertising and the fact that they're now losing money for each Xbone sold.

The figure is probably closer to $10 billion. There is no way in hell Xbox* will ever pay that off, especially since the PlayStation brand is stronger than ever before and the Xbox brand is far weaker than it was last-gen.

The Playstation brand is still not that strong. It's stronger now than last gen, but it does not touch the power of the brand during the PS1 and PS2 days.The xbox as a brand is a lot stronger now compared to 6th gen.

I think its pretty reasonable to ask where your information regarding company finances is coming from. It stops me from making ridiculous claims like....SONY ARE 30 billion dollars in debt!!!!

see what I did there....now I am officially as credible as you.

If you can provide a single reputable figure regarding the profitability of the Xbox decision we can continue our little chat. Until then we are done because as amusing as your stupidity is...I am scared it might spread.

I'm guessing that Microsoft will last much longer. Bottom line is that Microsoft wants to be part of the market that generates the most money. The gaming industry has a bright future, and no doubt Microsoft wants a huge chunk of that pie. So even if X1 sales flop (which they're not flopping), they'll still be here selling at a loss. Furthermore, it's at least good marketing to have the Xbox brand name out there to represent Microsoft.

Sony seem to be doing okay, but they're definitely not as stable as Microsoft.

LOL... The PS4 is selling much better than the PS1 and PS2.

All playstation users are sticking with the PS4 and most Xbox fans are moving to the PS4.

The online community on the PS4 is thriving while XBL is turning into a wasteland. There are more people right now on PS4 BF4 than there are on 360 AND Bone BF4.

SONY is probably going to make more in 1 year through PS+ subscriptions than MS will make off the whole Xbox division for this entire generation.

I think this is the most amusing thing about this topic whenever it arises. The fact is MS took a huuuuge chunk of the market share off of both Sony and Nintendo. Sure they may lose some ground, they may gain some, its constantly variable, but MS is certainly here to stay. They would not be in this market if it did not benefit them or they did not foresee future benefits.

That does not really mean anything because the console will start to fall behind the PS2 in terms of weekly, monthly or yearly LTD sales soon.The PS4 will be lucky to sell as well as the PS1.It will fail to touch the PS2 in terms of LTD sales.

Without the titanfall bundles and promotions that MS has been doing lately, the Xbone would be selling at Wii U-levels.

Do you honestly think MS will like to continue losing money throughout this gen just to sell a third of what SONY is selling? The execs are going to pull the plug this gen. They're losing too much money.

To put it in perspective, President Obama spent $404 millions in tv-ads in 2012 (Romney spent $492 millions). Titanfall deal and advertising at $5 billion? This is obvious hating and trolling.

LOL...

Keep dreaming. Stocks have finally stabilized in the US and EU. Wait for the March NPD and prepare to eat crow.

Fear. Uncertainty. Disinformation.

Something we shouldn't be encouraging as gamers seeking refuge from mass media and corporate cronyism in the world we seek to escape. However, in the year 2014, even gaming culture has become a parody of itself. Thank you XBox fans.

Do you really think the PS4 will sell as well as the PS2 in the current market conditions or are you really trolling?

The wii was $350 cheaper than a $600 PS3,you could buy 2 wii and 2 games with what you bough a single PS3,so please dud stop grasping.

The xbox 360 was from $100 to $300 cheaper,you can use all the excuses you want,fact is the gap in price between the Ps4 is way smaller that difference between the PS3 and xbox 360.

Hell even more now the xbox one comes with a free game the PS4 doesn't so is basically is $40 more expensive right now..hahaha

http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-video-games/zgbs/videogames

And still the PS4 is outselling it,you want a PS4 with Infamous.? It is $460,you want an xbox one with Titanfall is $500..

$40 dollar difference and still get outsold..lol

Yes.

That's what you lems and hermits said before the PS4 was released. You Pachter wannabes said it would be lucky to sell 5 million before June of 2014. Look where we are now. SONY may just get to 10 million by E3 this year while the Xbone is stuck in the 4 million range.

You failed to answer my question mr. notrolling.

@lamprey263: I doubt they will completely exit the tv business, especially since they are number 1 in ultra HD sales.

They need to stop making low end tvs and focus on the high end.

Wow you are a genius. Without marketing a product a product wont sell as much....thanks so much for that ground breaking, earth shattering revelation. Of course MS are going to promote and bundle a highly anticipated game....its common sense. Sony will do exactly the same as soon as some software gets released. The Xbox is a far stronger product than the Wii U. As I said.Ms can afford to continue to lose money, but they are anticipating a profitable gen. Obviously the budgets for marketing are going to be huge this early on in a product lifecycle. I think you really just lack the common sense necessary for this sort of conversation. Sorry...troll attempt failed.