Will Starcraft 2 bring the eSports scene mainstream in the West?

I hope not...IMO even the term "eSport" shouldnt be used to describe it. Its a video game whatever way you try to spin it. Video game tournaments? Fair enough, but dont try to pass off a video game as a sporting activity. Narcadox

[QUOTE="Pinkyimp"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

The concept of "eSports" is ridiculous.

Excercize.

Videogame is not athletic.

HoldThePhone

[QUOTE="Narcadox"]I hope not...IMO even the term "eSport" shouldnt be used to describe it. Its a video game whatever way you try to spin it. Video game tournaments? Fair enough, but dont try to pass off a video game as a sporting activity. HoldThePhone

You should learn that it is useless arguing with sports fanatics. They're just the type of people that downplay any non-phsyically active achievements.

It's like arguing with a movie critic.

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Pinkyimp"] There is no eSports. Only Professional sports, people get this crap mixed up all the time. Games can be played professionaly, hell, playing games probably take more mind skill then Football/Basketball does any day, ESP RTS's but its not a sport, its a professional HOBBY, but who cares?, as long as there happy at what they do, we cant argue.Pinkyimp

Well then I think some "sports" should no longer be allowed to be called as such.

(the following isn't directed at the person I am quoting):

you guys seem to be obsessed with the idea that a sport has to be a physically intense showcase of skill, and I agreed with you, and that is why I used the term eSport. but being so macho here on this gaming forum, you couldn't even handle the term "electronic sports".

Shooting is a sport. It is an official sport. Shooting a rifle is a professional sport -- let it sink in, let your mind start trying to think of a comeback. People who are shooters are professional athletes because shooting is a sport. Holding a rifle and squeezing a trigger is less demanding than pulling off 400 actions per minute in the game of starcraft (that is a lot twitches of your fingers and arm a second, which is almost inhuman).

Other laughable sports are:

Golf
Table Tennis
Bowling

Now IMO, those deserve to be sports because they are fun to watch and require an amazing amount of skill. You guys say they are Sports because they are physicaly intense showcases of skill. I think you are nuts.

I hope not...IMO even the term "eSport" shouldnt be used to describe it. Its a video game whatever way you try to spin it. Video game tournaments? Fair enough, but dont try to pass off a video game as a sporting activity. Narcadox

[QUOTE="Narcadox"]I hope not...IMO even the term "eSport" shouldnt be used to describe it. Its a video game whatever way you try to spin it. Video game tournaments? Fair enough, but dont try to pass off a video game as a sporting activity. Eddie-Vedder

No, because as you may have noticed from the first few replies, a large portion of America is obsessively close minded, that will rarely, if ever open it's eyes to things outside of the mainstream.

Just because you do not see something as competitive, because it's not physically taxing, doesn't mean it's not competitive.

A lot of money is spent on sports, which for most people are essentially a hobby. Though, if you excel particularly well in a certain sport, you've potential to take it up as a career, due to the competitive nature, and potential to earn a heck of a lot of money. Why can this not stretch to video games? Why is one hobby able to be a way to earn a successful living, and another not?

Video Game competitions take skill, dedication and team work to succeed in too. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for their work? After all, I'd like to see one of those posters even begin to compete in a game of CS or Starcraft against some of these players.

But then, it's not a bunch of sweaty, muscle guys running around a field, so why would it be any sign of competition

[QUOTE="Catpee"]

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"] It's an eSport.HoldThePhone

No, it really isn't.

And if you notice, there are many cultural differences between the US and Korea. We are a sports driven country. We have like 8 different ESPNs, kids play dozens of different sports, college sports are HUGE in this country, pro sports are HUGE in this country. Sports are with us through every age in our life, and I personally like it that way.

Videogames are not sports. There is nothing active about playing Starcraft on a PC. Seriously, we have enough fat people in this country without pushing for this to replace soccer for our little kids.

SOME videogames qualify as eSports. As I said in the opening post, if the game requires great skill and is entertaining to watch, it can become just as popular as an athletic sport.

So I'd like to leave the argument at that, and I think you would agree with me on what I wrote if you would be more rational and remember that I am not putting Starcraft in the same league as football. But if you'd like me to respond to the rest of your post -- i will:

You arguably burn just as many calories in a match of Starcraft than you do in driving a race car (NASCAR is a sport). Both involve sitting down and twitching your hands, how enduring!

Oh and most pro Starcraft players are immensely more healthy than your average professional baseball player. these points have nothing to do with my argument, but i just thought id let you know that. And if you have kids or to plan to have kids, depending on sports to magically keep them fit is a sure-fire way to increase their chances of heart disease. Teach them not to eat garbage and hit the gym, and they can very will sit on their ass all day.

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"] But they already are, so I just proved you wrong didn't i?GreenGoblin2099

Nope, you haven't.

Sports: athletic games or tests of skill undertaken primarily for the diversion of those who take part or those who observe them. The range is great; usually, however, the term is restricted to any play, pastime, exercise, game, or contest performed under given rules, indoors or outdoors, on an individual or a team basis, with or without competition, but requiring skill and some form of physical exertion.

Just because people calls them "sports" doesn't mean they are. People likes to invent too many terms nowadays.

SC falls under your defenition of sport, so I have no idea what you are arguing about...

The difference is that hockey is a successful spectator sport, both in terms of ticket sales and TV viewers. Despite being one of the worst run leagues in the world, the NHL still pulls in millions of viewers. Show me how "eSports" either is or could become a compelling spectator sport.

PBSnipes

you do realise there are quite a lot of TV chanels for SC and bit tournaments get 1 million or more viewers from all around the world right?

edit: some proof:

According to GOM TV statistics, over 1 million viewers watched the GOM TV Star Invitational matches with English commentary.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67407

and that's just in English where the fan base is quite small compared to the Korean one

proffesional SC players are just as popular in Korea as proffessional football players are in the US. And yes they do constantly excercise sincefitnes is required by their sponsors (sponsors like Samsung)

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Catpee"]

No, it really isn't.

And if you notice, there are many cultural differences between the US and Korea. We are a sports driven country. We have like 8 different ESPNs, kids play dozens of different sports, college sports are HUGE in this country, pro sports are HUGE in this country. Sports are with us through every age in our life, and I personally like it that way.

Videogames are not sports. There is nothing active about playing Starcraft on a PC. Seriously, we have enough fat people in this country without pushing for this to replace soccer for our little kids.

AAllxxjjnn

SOME videogames qualify as eSports. As I said in the opening post, if the game requires great skill and is entertaining to watch, it can become just as popular as an athletic sport.

So I'd like to leave the argument at that, and I think you would agree with me on what I wrote if you would be more rational and remember that I am not putting Starcraft in the same league as football. But if you'd like me to respond to the rest of your post -- i will:

You arguably burn just as many calories in a match of Starcraft than you do in driving a race car (NASCAR is a sport). Both involve sitting down and twitching your hands, how enduring!

Oh and most pro Starcraft players are immensely more healthy than your average professional baseball player. these points have nothing to do with my argument, but i just thought id let you know that. And if you have kids or to plan to have kids, depending on sports to magically keep them fit is a sure-fire way to increase their chances of heart disease. Teach them not to eat garbage and hit the gym, and they can very will sit on their ass all day.

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"] But they already are, so I just proved you wrong didn't i?Enosh88

Nope, you haven't.

Sports: athletic games or tests of skill undertaken primarily for the diversion of those who take part or those who observe them. The range is great; usually, however, the term is restricted to any play, pastime, exercise, game, or contest performed under given rules, indoors or outdoors, on an individual or a team basis, with or without competition, but requiring skill and some form of physical exertion.

Just because people calls them "sports" doesn't mean they are. People likes to invent too many terms nowadays.

SC falls under your defenition of sport, so I have no idea what you are arguing about...

So SC is athletic?? or requires as much physical exertion as let's say Golf, one of the least (physically) demanding sports??

So SC is athletic?? or requires as much physical exertion as let's say Golf, one of the least (physically) demanding sports??

GreenGoblin2099

[QUOTE="Enosh88"][QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

Nope, you haven't.

Sports: athletic games or tests of skill undertaken primarily for the diversion of those who take part or those who observe them. The range is great; usually, however, the term is restricted to any play, pastime, exercise, game, or contest performed under given rules, indoors or outdoors, on an individual or a team basis, with or without competition, but requiring skill and some form of physical exertion.

Just because people calls them "sports" doesn't mean they are. People likes to invent too many terms nowadays.

GreenGoblin2099

SC falls under your defenition of sport, so I have no idea what you are arguing about...

So SC is athletic?? or requires as much physical exertion as let's say Golf, one of the least (physically) demanding sports??

these are all the points which pro SC gaming meets. It is a game that test skill performed under given rules indoors on an invidual or team basis.

sport doesnt require to be physicaly demanding, see chess which is a recognised as sport by the International Olympic commite, I kinda take their defenition over yours

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

So SC is athletic?? or requires as much physical exertion as let's say Golf, one of the least (physically) demanding sports??

nintendofreak_2

Requires more exertion than clicking a mouse button. If you0ve ever shot a gun, you'd know you can grab it as lightly as let's say the mouse. Not to mention bow and arrow shooting.

:lol:

now you are just grapsing at straws

No, because as you may have noticed from the first few replies, a large portion of America is obsessively close minded, that will rarely, if ever open it's eyes to things outside of the mainstream.

Just because you do not see something as competitive, because it's not physically taxing, doesn't mean it's not competitive.

A lot of money is spent on sports, which for most people are essentially a hobby. Though, if you excel particularly well in a certain sport, you've potential to take it up as a career, due to the competitive nature, and potential to earn a heck of a lot of money. Why can this not stretch to video games? Why is one hobby able to be a way to earn a successful living, and another not?

Video Game competitions take skill, dedication and team work to succeed in too. Why shouldn't they be rewarded for their work? After all, I'd like to see one of those posters even begin to compete in a game of CS or Starcraft against some of these players.

But then, it's not a bunch of sweaty, muscle guys running around a field, so why would it be any sign of competition

jonnyt61

"Why should they not be rewarded for their work?" Are you kidding me?

So basically you are whining because its not fair? Let me clue you in on something. If pro athletes played a sport nobody wanted to watch, that TVs couldn't sell the advertising timeslots because nobody was watching the games, that teams couldn't sell tickets to the stadiums, those athletes would not be paid.

The audience for pro gaming is not there, thus the advertising and ticket sales are not there, thus the compensation for players is not there.

People want to see football, basketball, baseball.....sorry. The geeks lost.

Requires more exertion than clicking a mouse button. If you0ve ever shot a gun, you'd know you can grab it as lightly as let's say the mouse. Not to mention bow and arrow shootingGreenGoblin2099

:lol:

now you are just grapsing at straws

Enosh88

If you're talking about me, I've said nothing but truths here... but I guess you got me on the Chess thing.

Still, eSports is an idiotic term if you ask me, the activity is been out for years now as "professional gaming" but someone wanted to make it cool calling it "eSport", just like some idiot wanted to call men "metrosexuals".

And since you're eager to defend the term, answer this question: let's say I agree and videogames are an eSport, what other things are eSports??? Are you going to use the term just for this activity??

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]Requires more exertion than clicking a mouse button. If you0ve ever shot a gun, you'd know you can grab it as lightly as let's say the mouse. Not to mention bow and arrow shootingVandalvideo

LOL, I'm on a computer 8 hours a day for my job. Its not that stressful. Certainly not like trying to box out someone who outweighs you by 30 lbs from grabbing a board in a tied game or trying to pick up a 3rd and short with a stacked box of 250+ lb defensive lineman and linebackers.

Besides, I don't even want to argue whether its a sport or not, I'm just saying rather matter of factly, the ad and ticket sales are not there, so all your dreams of being professional COD player are fantasy.

LOL, I'm on a computer 8 hours a day for my job. Its not that stressful. Certainly not like trying to box out someone who outweighs you by 30 lbs from grabbing a board in a tied game or trying to pick up a 3rd and short with a stacked box of 250+ lb defensive lineman and linebackers.Besides, I don't even want to argue whether its a sport or not, I'm just saying rather matter of factly, the ad and ticket sales are not there, so all your dreams of being professional COD player are fantasy.Catpee

[QUOTE="Enosh88"]

:lol:

now you are just grapsing at straws

GreenGoblin2099

If you're talking about me, I've said nothing but truths here... but I guess you got me on the Chess thing.

Still, eSports is an idiotic term if you ask me, the activity is been out for years now as "professional gaming" but someone wanted to make it cool calling it "eSport", just like some idiot wanted to call men "metrosexuals".

And since you're eager to defend the term, answer this question: let's say I agree and videogames are an eSport, what other things are eSports??? Are you going to use the term just for this activity??

Me playing solitaire on my computer at work when my boss isn't watching is also an Esport then? Maybe posting for ownage points on a message board is also an Esport too. That takes alot of brain power to one up somebody, right?

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"][QUOTE="Enosh88"]

:lol:

now you are just grapsing at straws

Catpee

If you're talking about me, I've said nothing but truths here... but I guess you got me on the Chess thing.

Still, eSports is an idiotic term if you ask me, the activity is been out for years now as "professional gaming" but someone wanted to make it cool calling it "eSport", just like some idiot wanted to call men "metrosexuals".

And since you're eager to defend the term, answer this question: let's say I agree and videogames are an eSport, what other things are eSports??? Are you going to use the term just for this activity??

Me playing solitaire on my computer at work when my boss isn't watching is also an Esport then? Maybe posting for ownage points on a message board is also an Esport too. That takes alot of brain power to one up somebody, right?

Not to mention watching t3h pr0n... lol at least that one might eend up with some physical activity :lol:

Requires more exertion than clicking a mouse button. If you0ve ever shot a gun, you'd know you can grab it as lightly as let's say the mouse. Not to mention bow and arrow shooting.

GreenGoblin2099

Me playing solitaire on my computer at work when my boss isn't watching is also an Esport then? Maybe posting for ownage points on a message board is also an Esport too. That takes alot of brain power to one up somebody, right?

Catpee

Not to mention watching t3h pr0n... lol at least that one might eend up with some physical activity :lol:

GreenGoblin2099

And I doubt you'd masturbate competitively, but hey, that's your choice. :P

Never thought that this many gamers would be against the idea of competitive gaming. Competitive gaming certainly isn't as physically taxing as most other sports I'll admit, but it does award skill just as much and in my opinion (and many others) can be as entertaining to watch.

AHAHAHA ohhh you silly people, you've never heard or Cal leagues have you? They are main stream for gamers, and they are here. CS, CSS, DoDS, ect.

However, calling video gaming a sport is an illusion.

AHAHAHA ohhh you silly people, you've never heard or Cal leagues have you? They are main stream for gamers, and they are here. CS, CSS, DoDS, ect.

However, calling video gaming a sport is an illusion.

fatzebra

"Sports" and "video games" are words that are completely incompatible with each other.foxhound_fox

How about Sport video games? :P

Well done guys. You spent the first 50 or so posts arguing over a word, flaming the TC and adding nothing to the discussion. Well done system wars. You have made me very proud! Kudos to those that CTUALLY engaged in the discussion. If this thread is still alive tomorrow I'd love to GIVE my piece of mind but it's way too late now. I'm off to bed.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]"Sports" and "video games" are words that are completely incompatible with each other.Arsuz

How about Sport video games? :P

Well done guys. You spent the first 50 or so posts arguing over a word, flaming the TC and adding nothing to the discussion. Well done system wars. You have made me very proud! Kudos to those that CTUALLY engaged in the discussion. If this thread is still alive tomorrow I'd love to GIVE my piece of mind but it's way too late now. I'm off to bed.

The point is not that it is or is not a sport, just whether it will become mainstream, and the answer is no. Americans are not Koreans, for better or for worse.

[QUOTE="Arsuz"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]"Sports" and "video games" are words that are completely incompatible with each other.Catpee

How about Sport video games? :P

Well done guys. You spent the first 50 or so posts arguing over a word, flaming the TC and adding nothing to the discussion. Well done system wars. You have made me very proud! Kudos to those that CTUALLY engaged in the discussion. If this thread is still alive tomorrow I'd love to GIVE my piece of mind but it's way too late now. I'm off to bed.

The point is not that it is or is not a sport, just whether it will become mainstream, and the answer is no. Americans are not Koreans, for better or for worse.

Try to tap your finger 8 times in one second. Once you get that down, try to make each of those taps a meaningful move in a game of strategical warfare. Move a group of units, send a worker to build this, have the other ones go retrieve more resources, on the other side of the map move your units away from enemy fire, build a unit from this building, then build one from there, click to see what you just scouted, and make an aggressive push on your enemie's expansion -- oh and do all this in one second. you people have no idea what you are talking about.poster

To add to this post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aKs9ucF5Y4&feature=channel_page

To do what he's doing you have to press down on the analog stick and B then within 4 frames (a frame is a 60th of a second) press up on the analog stick, X, or Y then within 2 frames press down on the analog stick and B, and repeat until your fingers fall off. I can't get this down even in 1/4th speed, I have to play the game with frame advance.

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"] But they already are, so I just proved you wrong didn't i?GreenGoblin2099

Nope, you haven't.

Sports: athletic games or tests of skill undertaken primarily for the diversion of those who take part or those who observe them. The range is great; usually, however, the term is restricted to any play, pastime, exercise, game, or contest performed under given rules, indoors or outdoors, on an individual or a team basis, with or without competition, but requiring skill and some form of physical exertion.

Just because people calls them "sports" doesn't mean they are. People likes to invent too many terms nowadays.

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

cuddlesofwar

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

cuddlesofwar

[QUOTE="cuddlesofwar"]

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

HoldThePhone

LOL, this thread has certainly taken a turn for the bizarre.

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="cuddlesofwar"]

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

Catpee

LOL, this thread has certainly taken a turn for the bizarre.

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="cuddlesofwar"]

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

Catpee

LOL, this thread has certainly taken a turn for the bizarre.

Maybe you should do some research before alienating things like this.... you know, west means western europe aswell right? or could possible .....PC360Wii

[QUOTE="PC360Wii"]

Maybe you should do some research before alienating things like this.... you know, west means western europe aswell right? or could possible .....Catpee

Sorry I find it more exciting to watch a big hit in football then a supernerd in front of a pc.Vasichko

[QUOTE="cuddlesofwar"]

E-sport? Wow ...

What a stupid idea. letting the fat kids who can't do real sport claim the're starcraft champion of the world

HoldThePhone

[QUOTE="Vasichko"]Sorry I find it more exciting to watch a big hit in football then a supernerd in front of a pc.Diviniuz

Grinding is an MMO term buddy, and has nothing to do with anything were talking about.

A.) Any serious SC ladder player is probably well aware of the pro scene, and he probably reseraches their games

B.) Any sport can seem dumb or boring to anyone.

C.) Saying, "oh they just like it because they are asian" is racially offensive

you people are beyond ignorant.