Will The 360 Soon Fall Behind Because It Only Uses DVDs?

I think thats its getting obvious that games are getting larger and larger and that some games need more than a DVD. I don't mean like right now but i mean later on in the life of the consoles. As developers put more content and make the graphics better games will be a lot bigger. My question is that do you think in the near future that games will be to big to fit on a DVD9?flame978

I have read of some new form of DVD (DVD9 ?) that can hold up to 51GB. If this is true and works in the 360 then no, it won't be a problem.

I think you're forgetting the Wii's graphics are last gen. Did last gen games have trouble on older formats with even less space? No. It'll be fine.-Wheels-

Who started talkign aboutt he Wii, we were talking about 360. As to the other user, many people, myself included, hate multiple DVDs. It is far more convenient to have one disc vs 3,4,5, or 6.

[QUOTE="flame978"]I think thats its getting obvious that games are getting larger and larger and that some games need more than a DVD. I don't mean like right now but i mean later on in the life of the consoles. As developers put more content and make the graphics better games will be a lot bigger. My question is that do you think in the near future that games will be to big to fit on a DVD9?Jade_Monkey

I have read of some new form of DVD (DVD9 ?) that can hold up to 51GB. If this is true and works in the 360 then no, it won't be a problem.

A link would be very helpful.

I think you're forgetting the Wii's graphics are last gen. Did last gen games have trouble on older formats with even less space? No. It'll be fine.-Wheels-

Are you forgeting that even some games right now are having trouble fitting on a DVD9?

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08/01/pgr4_won_t_fit_on_a_dvd_content_axed/1

Part of the content was taken out because it wouldn't fit.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/12-10-2007-6670.html

And even Assassin's Creed had problems.

Think in a few yeaars you might be caring multiple DVDs for ONE game.

A link would be very helpful.

TMontana1004

I would, but I heard about it on SW, so take it with a huge grain of salt.

[QUOTE="TMontana1004"]

A link would be very helpful.

Jade_Monkey

I would, but I heard about it on SW, so take it with a huge grain of salt.

You must be referring to HD-DVD because it held 51 GB.

no, look at the gamecubeMad_Rhetoric

And see what ? How many games did they have that took up a lot of space anyway. I would say maybe RE4 and Metroid, past that I doubt anything posed a space problem for it.

[QUOTE="flame978"]I think thats its getting obvious that games are getting larger and larger and that some games need more than a DVD. I don't mean like right now but i mean later on in the life of the consoles. As developers put more content and make the graphics better games will be a lot bigger. My question is that do you think in the near future that games will be to big to fit on a DVD9?Jade_Monkey

I have read of some new form of DVD (DVD9 ?) that can hold up to 51GB. If this is true and works in the 360 then no, it won't be a problem.

Impossible, the 9 in DVD9 stands for 8.5gb, obviously marketed up to 9gb, lol.

Impossible, the 9 in DVD9 stands for 8.5gb, obviously marketed up to 9gb, lol.

Andrew_Xavier

Media storage isn't my area of expertise and later on in the thread I even say that i got that figure from SW so take with a huge grain of salt.

[QUOTE="-Wheels-"]I think you're forgetting the Wii's graphics are last gen. Did last gen games have trouble on older formats with even less space? No. It'll be fine.flame978

Are you forgeting that even some games right now are having trouble fitting on a DVD9?

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08/01/pgr4_won_t_fit_on_a_dvd_content_axed/1

Part of the content was taken out because it wouldn't fit.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/12-10-2007-6670.html

And even Assassin's Creed had problems.

Think in a few yeaars you might be caring multiple DVDs for ONE game.

Remember the original PSX, that had it a lot, and all the discs fit in the case, it will be no problem.

Two words: multiple discs.TheEndBoss

Many aren't fans of those, me included.

The PS1 did have games that were on multiple discs. There were games though that didnt. Now think, what if in the furture every game will be on 2,3,4 or even 6 discs. Don't forget that even if some games have trouble fitting now just wait. And don't say that mutiple discs is really practical. If you really think so then have fun buying games in huge box from now on and carrying that everywhere.

Edit: And i also waant to point out the maufacturing cost of a lot more plastic and discs. This will cause them to fit less games in a box. It will also cost more. Maybe not much but when you factor things out 1 game x millions of sales and factor in th extra cost thats a lot.

[QUOTE="Andrew_Xavier"]

Impossible, the 9 in DVD9 stands for 8.5gb, obviously marketed up to 9gb, lol.

Jade_Monkey

Media storage isn't my area of expertise and later on in the thread I even say that i got that figure from SW so take with a huge grain of salt.

It is legit, but all the articles I've read are unclear as to whether it could be played on a normal DVD player. Its called the VMD (versatile multilayer disc). It uses red laser technology along with new layering methods to provide a 30 GB capacity with little modification required for existing DVD production lines.

Like I said, there is speculation that it could be played on existing DVD players, but I really doubt that it can be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd_vmdKodiakGTS

I'd pay money for it to be called Red Ray.

[QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]no, look at the gamecubeJade_Monkey

And see what ? How many games did they have that took up a lot of space anyway. I would say maybe RE4 and Metroid, past that I doubt anything posed a space problem for it.

He means that the Gamecube disks were so small and they still held everything.

Two words: multiple discs.TheEndBoss

did you know that the real problem is that most companies can't afford to put a game on multiple discs. one dual-layer costs as much as one blue ray believe it or not and thats at wholesale price. putting a game on 2 or 3 discs would have massive overhead cost. the only games on the 360 that are multiple discs are Blue dragan and lost oddessey and they were both published by MS. you know why because MS is like the only company that can withstand such staggering overhead costs.

[QUOTE="TheEndBoss"]Two words: multiple discs.Jade_Monkey

Many aren't fans of those, me included.

I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't have a probably walking over and pressing eject. Hardly a marathon.

I think thats its getting obvious that games are getting larger and larger and that some games need more than a DVD. I don't mean like right now but i mean later on in the life of the consoles. As developers put more content and make the graphics better games will be a lot bigger. My question is that do you think in the near future that games will be to big to fit on a DVD9?flame978

Are games getting bigger and bigger though? And theres no strong correlation between graphics and file size.

For Example here are some game sizes (for PC, should be slightly bigger than the console variants considering the larger texture files)

Assasin's Creed: 6.65GB

COD4: 6.23GB

Crysis: 6.7GB

Rainbow 6 Vegas 2: 7.5GB

UT3: 7.87GB

Gears of War: 9.92GB

[QUOTE="Jade_Monkey"]

[QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]no, look at the gamecubeNALDOxCORE

And see what ? How many games did they have that took up a lot of space anyway. I would say maybe RE4 and Metroid, past that I doubt anything posed a space problem for it.

He means that the Gamecube disks were so small and they still held everything.

did you know that the real problem is that most companies can't afford to put a game on multiple discs. one dual-layer costs as much as one blue ray believe it or not and thats at wholesale price. putting a game on 2 or 3 discs would have massive overhead cost. the only games on the 360 that are multiple discs are Blue dragan and lost oddessey and they were both published by MS. you know why because MS is like the only company that can withstand such staggering overhead costs.

rocoswav

DVD discs are very cheap to manufacturer, for this kind of quantity (millions) you are looking at the cents range per disc.

[QUOTE="TheEndBoss"]Two words: multiple discs.Jade_Monkey

Many aren't fans of those, me included.

two words: multiple dics.

9 gigs is a ton of space if u use them properly. good games dont need more space, they just need to learn how to use them properly. the person who made a reference to the wii had a point. its still in the race and is even more limited than the other two consoles. some r exaggerating taling about 3-6 discs. OMG SHUT UP. that was like two generations ago. were getting average of 2 discs, that's about it.

i personally dont see a problem with having more than one disc.

and lets be real... will u really avoid a game if it had more than one disc? thats what i thought.

It does limits games, but so did Ps2 hardware last gen.

The 360 userbase will guarantee that developers will keep on making games for it, despite its limitations.

[QUOTE="-Wheels-"]I think you're forgetting the Wii's graphics are last gen. Did last gen games have trouble on older formats with even less space? No. It'll be fine.Jade_Monkey

Who started talkign aboutt he Wii, we were talking about 360. As to the other user, many people, myself included, hate multiple DVDs. It is far more convenient to have one disc vs 3,4,5, or 6.

Oops, how did I miss read that? Wow...

Some people are forgetting that im also talking about the future. Soem of you don't even realize that even some games NOW take up more than a DVD9 can hold. I really think that if its a problem now it will be a bigger problem later. Don't even say that DVD9 is adaqute for the future. Also multiple discs mean the use of more plastic. This will also limit how many they can fit in some boxes. It will also mean that it will take longer to manufacture games. You could output 1 Blu-ray Discs or 5 DVDs. It will also take up production line space. And don't say that crap about multiple discs. It will take up more room and be a hassle to carry ONE game when you could of carried THREE!flame978

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="flame978"]Some people are forgetting that im also talking about the future. Soem of you don't even realize that even some games NOW take up more than a DVD9 can hold. I really think that if its a problem now it will be a bigger problem later. Don't even say that DVD9 is adaqute for the future. Also multiple discs mean the use of more plastic. This will also limit how many they can fit in some boxes. It will also mean that it will take longer to manufacture games. You could output 1 Blu-ray Discs or 5 DVDs. It will also take up production line space. And don't say that crap about multiple discs. It will take up more room and be a hassle to carry ONE game when you could of carried THREE!AmyMizuno

I would like to know where your getting this information.

Good lord, there are a total of two multi disk games for the 360, and both contain way to much FMV, and they are bopth JRPG's

Anyone who thinks that the DVD9 in the 360 will ever become a major issue is fooling themselves, or a fanboy willing to grasp at anything because Sony said the Blu-Ray is neede, when obviously its not

Microsoft is first and foremost a software company, you don't think they have some good compression technology, and are improving it???!!!!

come on people, look at the games so far, they tell me that DVD9 is not an issue, because obviously Blu-Ray has done zero for the quality of titles for PS3

I think thats its getting obvious that games are getting larger and larger and that some games need more than a DVD. I don't mean like right now but i mean later on in the life of the consoles. As developers put more content and make the graphics better games will be a lot bigger. My question is that do you think in the near future that games will be to big to fit on a DVD9?flame978

For the next couple of DVDs will still be fine. There is little reason for a game to need to take up 25-50 GB to run. Look at Crysis, it doesn't need blu-ray. Yes you are riht eventually it will need to change if we wish for games to continuoulsy expand, however it is not something this format needs right now. Look at the games on the PS3 and compare them to the 360, is blu-ray really making that big of a difference? No its not.

My other question is what is going to be the appropriate format once the time comes for games to require bigger space. Blu-ray isn't really dominating the disc market yet and is still trailing DVD by HUGE numbers. Maybe things will change once all TVs go digiital in 09, but if blu-ray continues to stay unwanted by the masses don't be suprised if another format jumps in to try and take over.

[QUOTE="crispytheone88"]

Good lord, there are a total of two multi disk games for the 360, and both contain way to much FMV, and they are bopth JRPG's

Anyone who thinks that the DVD9 in the 360 will ever become a major issue is fooling themselves, or a fanboy willing to grasp at anything because Sony said the Blu-Ray is neede, when obviously its not

Microsoft is first and foremost a software company, you don't think they have some good compression technology, and are improving it???!!!!

come on people, look at the games so far, they tell me that DVD9 is not an issue, because obviously Blu-Ray has done zero for the quality of titles for PS3

AmyMizuno

The reason games are getting so large is because of comparative interpolation. The graphics engine for most modern games internally scans a high-resolution mesh, compares it with a low-resolution mesh, interpolates the difference and stores it in a normal map. Not only is this a redundant process, but it requires massive amount of data, because the high resolution meshes can be hundreds of millions of polygons. Each level in Gears of War is roughly 1GB because of this method.

Also, sound is another large contributor, and some games have lots of dialogue. There are compression techniques for sound, but they will eventually degrade the quality.

I'm still not totally convinced, expecially after mass effect, which has some nice graphics (not perfect), and an insane amount of recorded dialog, and I don't recall it sounding like youtube

in the end, programmers will do what they have always done, find tricks around the problem, Ps2 was inferior to the original xbox, that didn't stop developers from making games that looked very impressive, even compared to the best xbox had to offer

As for the comparative interpolation, I could sit here and Lie and pretend I know what your talking about, but I won't, I'll just say, that if games like Mass Effect, and Gears 2 fits on one DVD9, and say near the end of the 360's life cycle in three years Gears three comes out on two disks, I'm not sure anyone will cry over that to much

as long as the games are good, most people won't care, I don't see it being an issue that will effect the 360 in any major way, certainly not as bad as the Blu-Ray has crippled the PS3, at least Microsoft is profitable, selling roughly the same amount of consoles as Sony's PS3