Wow, consoles have surely dumbed down the Deus Ex series

Um... what? This can't be a serious thread...

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]Well i find games that challenge the gamer and require abit of planning ahead of time fun ^_^IronBass

Oh i only wish

It's ok for developers to make games less complex and dumb down elements..just along as the make it fun so it can win many GOTY awards and become "cool" ^^ That is where this industry is heading.lawlessx

It's where the industry already is. The fact that rubbish such as Bieber, Michael Bay or Bethesda have so much success is solid evidence of that.

It's the time we're at I guess. Gaming had many bad coincidences happen in a row with the skyrocketing of development costs and the economic crisis. Less risks have to be taken to be able to keep yourself afloat in the industry. Eventually actually good and deep games will be an "underground mainstream" like rock is for music right now - the media don't advertise it but it's there.

I sure hope so, at least.

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]Except for ME, no way in hell ;)N30F3N1X

Oblivion and Fallout 3 are both the worst games in the series put in their time context. And are both absolutely horrible game. So no.

AHAHAHAA oh man this was funny because its not true.

Aside from some WRPGs, FPS and MMOs, I really don't understand the idea that games are dumbed down this gen :?

commonfate

Deus Ex Human Revolution was a great game, but its one of those maddening games to me could have been so much better.. The game had entirely too few side quests of any kind.. The Bosses are a huge disapointment in not just fighting them but being completely meaningless in having absolutely no clue who they are in, leading to the end of not really caring that you got revenge.. Many of the augments are just flat out useless due to being rarely used, not needed, or taking too much energy to be feasibly used consistently in changing gameplay.. The game's storyline half the time didn't make sense in Adam being able to do large portions of the game in just ONE night.. This sheer lack of ideas especially never really focusing on Adam's reaction to the augments left alot of missed potential imo.. At the end of the day the game was great, but yet again it could have been a landmark title with just more time and development.sSubZerOo

True, often it felt like the augmentations were useless because every situation could be faced without said aug, resulting in every situation not needing any of the augmentations at all (a pretty embarassing design flaw).

The bossfights were really unnecessary too, and the story could've been better paced. Also, they should've kept a "levelling" system like the original Deus Ex, this one was pretty much a cheat mode.

Still, it's a great example of how franchises that haven't been touched in a while should be reintroduced to gaming. Unlike many other examples we've seen this gen.

I got a good lol out of that video.

The game was dumbed down and not as good compared to the otiginal game, but it was still a good game.

The only problem I have so far is the enemy AI. In the future they must have cloned the enemy soldiers from Uncharted. Still a great game, now if they would stop puttine wretched Steam support in PC games or give some of us an option not to use it...

Blah blah blah consolization blah blah dumbing down blah blah remember the good old days blah blah blah nostalgia aug commencing override of all senses blah blah blah.

That said, I think Deus Ex is a pretty cool guy. He fights conspiracies and doesn't afraid of Gunther Herman. In the end, that's what really matters.

/thread

Console gaming should be banned the way it is hurting ma PC :evil:

commonfate

since console gaming is more mainstream and more people have turned to it then ever before, if console gaming died, gaming would be no more. I dont care how OPEN pc is. You only get games for any platform when money is involved. No money equals NO games..

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

Console gaming should be banned the way it is hurting ma PC :evil:

VanDammFan

since console gaming is more mainstream and more people have turned to it then ever before, if console gaming died, gaming would be no more. I dont care how OPEN pc is. You only get games for any platform when money is involved. No money equals NO games..

lol @ people taking my trolling seriously

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

Console gaming should be banned the way it is hurting ma PC :evil:

VanDammFan

since console gaming is more mainstream and more people have turned to it then ever before, if console gaming died, gaming would be no more. I dont care how OPEN pc is. You only get games for any platform when money is involved. No money equals NO games..

Blah blah blah consolization blah blah dumbing down blah blah remember the good old days blah blah blah nostalgia aug commencing override of all senses blah blah blah.

That said, I think Deus Ex is a pretty cool guy. He fights conspiracies and doesn't afraid of Gunther Herman. In the end, that's what really matters.

/thread

TheLordHimself

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]Except for ME, no way in hell ;)N30F3N1X

Oblivion and Fallout 3 are both the worst games in the series put in their time context. And are both absolutely horrible game. So no.

[QUOTE="IronBass"] Opinion noted. I don't base my judgement on games based on what you think, though, but on what I think :!: So unless you have a better argument than your own opinion to imply that mine is wrong, I'm going to stand by my previous statement.N30F3N1X

*sigh*

What has this generation done to our standards :roll: ...

Blah blah blah consolization blah blah dumbing down blah blah remember the good old days blah blah blah nostalgia aug commencing override of all senses blah blah blah.

TheLordHimself

I wonder why PC gamers haven't complained about consoles "dumbing-down" games a few years back despite many PC games being console ports as well.

[QUOTE="TheLordHimself"]

Blah blah blah consolization blah blah dumbing down blah blah remember the good old days blah blah blah nostalgia aug commencing override of all senses blah blah blah.

nameless12345

I wonder why PC gamers haven't complained about consoles "dumbing-down" games a few years back despite many PC games being console ports as well.

I am sure it is only casual gamers that are complaining, which would make sense to see so many of them now, because the PC is full of them now

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Deus Ex Human Revolution was a great game, but its one of those maddening games to me could have been so much better.. The game had entirely too few side quests of any kind.. The Bosses are a huge disapointment in not just fighting them but being completely meaningless in having absolutely no clue who they are in, leading to the end of not really caring that you got revenge.. Many of the augments are just flat out useless due to being rarely used, not needed, or taking too much energy to be feasibly used consistently in changing gameplay.. The game's storyline half the time didn't make sense in Adam being able to do large portions of the game in just ONE night.. This sheer lack of ideas especially never really focusing on Adam's reaction to the augments left alot of missed potential imo.. At the end of the day the game was great, but yet again it could have been a landmark title with just more time and development.N30F3N1X

True, often it felt like the augmentations were useless because every situation could be faced without said aug, resulting in every situation not needing any of the augmentations at all (a pretty embarassing design flaw).

The bossfights were really unnecessary too, and the story could've been better paced. Also, they should've kept a "levelling" system like the original Deus Ex, this one was pretty much a cheat mode.

Still, it's a great example of how franchises that haven't been touched in a while should be reintroduced to gaming. Unlike many other examples we've seen this gen.

I thought a cool idea for the boss fights is forcing you to "hack" them rather than the weak ass interrogation.. In which you delved into the characters history and ultimately tried to make it kind of like a Inception like event.. Least that way the boss characters would feel more meaningful in know who the hell they are to Adam and what not.

The only problems I have with DEhr:

1. no lockpicks

2. door damage is worse

3. no multi tools

4. regen health

5. no limb damage and health kits

6. energy system is silly

7. no melee weapons

8. the first game was an rpg with shooter elements, this game is a shooter with rpg elements

9. ending was lame.

10. forced boss fights

11. aim down the sights

12. don't like the press X to jason stuff

great game but not nearly as good as the first.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Deus Ex Human Revolution was a great game, but its one of those maddening games to me could have been so much better.. The game had entirely too few side quests of any kind.. The Bosses are a huge disapointment in not just fighting them but being completely meaningless in having absolutely no clue who they are in, leading to the end of not really caring that you got revenge.. Many of the augments are just flat out useless due to being rarely used, not needed, or taking too much energy to be feasibly used consistently in changing gameplay.. The game's storyline half the time didn't make sense in Adam being able to do large portions of the game in just ONE night.. This sheer lack of ideas especially never really focusing on Adam's reaction to the augments left alot of missed potential imo.. At the end of the day the game was great, but yet again it could have been a landmark title with just more time and development.N30F3N1X

True, often it felt like the augmentations were useless because every situation could be faced without said aug, resulting in every situation not needing any of the augmentations at all (a pretty embarassing design flaw).

The bossfights were really unnecessary too, and the story could've been better paced. Also, they should've kept a "levelling" system like the original Deus Ex, this one was pretty much a cheat mode.

Still, it's a great example of how franchises that haven't been touched in a while should be reintroduced to gaming. Unlike many other examples we've seen this gen.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

Indeed. And just like TES, Fallout, Mass Effect, etc, it's better because of it.

N30F3N1X

Except for ME, no way in hell ;)

Quite a cynical video. Peopel assume streamlined=consolised

Human revolution surpasses the original in many things.

regerating health > old health system , better level design, Bigger level design (compare versalife to sarif industries or untaco to sarif industries) , way way better artstyle and aesthetics, better voiceacting, hacking is awesome now - compared to original , old hacking was lame, in original deus ex some skills and augs were just plain useless (pick up heavy objects lvl3?? expert swimming?)
enough with dumbing down myth - consolization. IW was dumbed down, HR is not.

Human revolution surpasses the original in many things.

regerating health > old health system , better level design, Bigger level design (compare versalife to sarif industries or untaco to sarif industries) , way way better artstyle and aesthetics, better voiceacting, hacking is awesome now - compared to original , old hacking was lame, in original deus ex some skills and augs were just plain useless (pick up heavy objects lvl3?? expert swimming?)
enough with dumbing down myth - consolization. IW was dumbed down, HR is not.

ioannisdenton

Otherwise I wouldn't say its level design is entirely better, or its narrative.

While I haven't finished it, HR's introduction was an absolute mess, and the first few hours weren't great. It wasn't nearly up there with Deus Ex's (still to this day) astoundingly well done Liberty Island.

While the level had its flaws, its rare for any game to capture everything its about - plot, foreshadowing, and mechanically, in its first opening stage - without overwhelming the player, followed by that slow burn buildup which put all the elements in place, and player perceptions before pouncing on he player and surprising them.

HR by comparison had a wonky interactive cutscene and prelude, and the level following it (and even Sarif industries) really didn't capture that spirit at all; then the player is plopped right into Detroit streets.

Compare that to Liberty Island (immediately freeform freedom, basic elements introduced) Unatco HQ (character building and safe exploration), Battery Park (still freeform, and expanding, not so much plot heavy) - before hitting Hells Kitchen which is when the game began to spread its wings. Then all of this and more (underground, mole tunnels, bases, more Unatco, airfield) before China.

Not to say HR isn't great, it just doesn't have that pacing and smart introduction.

[QUOTE="ioannisdenton"]

Human revolution surpasses the original in many things.

regerating health > old health system , better level design, Bigger level design (compare versalife to sarif industries or untaco to sarif industries) , way way better artstyle and aesthetics, better voiceacting, hacking is awesome now - compared to original , old hacking was lame, in original deus ex some skills and augs were just plain useless (pick up heavy objects lvl3?? expert swimming?)
enough with dumbing down myth - consolization. IW was dumbed down, HR is not.

skrat_01

Otherwise I wouldn't say its level design is entirely better, or its narrative.

While I haven't finished it, HR's introduction was an absolute mess, and the first few hours weren't great. It wasn't nearly up there with Deus Ex's (still to this day) astoundingly well done Liberty Island.

While the level had its flaws, its rare for any game to capture everything its about - plot, foreshadowing, and mechanically, in its first opening stage - without overwhelming the player, followed by that slow burn buildup which put all the elements in place, and player perceptions before pouncing on he player and surprising them.

HR by comparison had a wonky interactive cutscene and prelude, and the level following it (and even Sarif industries) really didn't capture that spirit at all; then the player is plopped right into Detroit streets.

Compare that to Liberty Island (immediately freeform freedom, basic elements introduced) Unatco HQ (character building and safe exploration), Battery Park (still freeform, and expanding, not so much plot heavy) - before hitting Hells Kitchen which is when the game began to spread its wings. Then all of this and more (underground, mole tunnels, bases, more Unatco, airfield) before China.

Not to say HR isn't great, it just doesn't have that pacing and smart introduction.

find another hobby? jerkface96

What kind of logic did you put into this post? What does the fact that this generation's standards devolved instead of going forward have to do with my hobbies? What tells you I haven't already? And why is any of that your business :? ?

Augs outside of healing were completely useless in the first game as well as a means of getting aroundl. Its the same thing as HR and IW. The story is perfectly paced and far better then the originals atrocious pacing. The leveling system sucked in the first game as well as the skills were unbalanced. You only need to take first level computer skills for instance, as any higher were useless.texasgoldrush

Going through the first without augmentations was a serious handicap.

The only augmentation that not having would feel like an handicap in HR is the 5-level hacking thing. Everything else can be skipped without breaking a sweat.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Augs outside of healing were completely useless in the first game as well as a means of getting aroundl. Its the same thing as HR and IW. The story is perfectly paced and far better then the originals atrocious pacing. The leveling system sucked in the first game as well as the skills were unbalanced. You only need to take first level computer skills for instance, as any higher were useless.N30F3N1X

Going through the first without augmentations was a serious handicap.

The only augmentation that not having would feel like an handicap in HR is the 5-level hacking thing. Everything else can be skipped without breaking a sweat.

[QUOTE="jerkface96"] find another hobby? N30F3N1X

What kind of logic did you put into this post? What does the fact that this generation's standards devolved instead of going forward have to do with my hobbies? What tells you I haven't already? And why is any of that your business :? ?

theres a line of being too complex and not complex enough, DX HR hit the middle part perfectly.

Over complicating things and making gameplay more complex does not always make a game better, standards change every gen to suit the needs of the mass of the gaming population theres still a lot of complex games out there if thaats your thing but devs are just adapting to their audience.

Deus ex on the ps2 was dumbed down?

theres a line of being too complex and not complex enough, DX HR hit the middle part perfectly.

Over complicating things and making gameplay more complex does not always make a game better, standards change every gen to suit the needs of the mass of the gaming population theres still a lot of complex games out there if thaats your thing but devs are just adapting to their audience.

razgriz_101

I agree that DX hit the middle line perfectly, I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that the average gamer's expectations no longer include any kind of brainwork. If what you're supposed to do is not completely intuitive (or flat out explained) then it's a crap game. Even games that require the slightest amount of brainwork are dismissed as too complicated (Dragon Age Origins makes a prime example, BioWare stated somewhere that only 10% of the console crowd managed to obtain one of the Archdemon's death achievements, meaning only 10% of the console crowd actually finished the game).

I don't mean just "complex", I mean actually deep, as in making you think through their stories and characters, not necessarily forcing you to think about their mechanics. Surely you can understand RPGs such as the PSX Final Fantasy games or the Black Isle games leave you a much more satisfying story and "message" than say, this generation's Bethesda games or Gears of War. So where are this generation's Final Fantasy 7/9 and Planescape: Torment?

i hated liberty island with a passion. it was empty (for my tastes) and huge and you did not where to go. you just sxplored a huge area with 3 enemies here and there untill you entered the statue from one of the entrances. the beggining of the game (liberty island) turned me off still few my friends never played Deus ex 1 cause of that level. i am serious.

and why HR beggining is a mess? i really liked it, the sow pacing the atmosfere , the music , the unatco theme slowly unvailing when in sarif's office, the mystery concerning that secret megan was about to announce, and how adam is going to get injured

ioannisdenton

Honestly I think despite its flaws it really is brilliant - freedom is delivered to you, and emphasised from the go, you're given choice and stressed its importance - right down to the details - the NSF not being that much of a threat at all, Unatco being grossly overpowered by comparison, the eloquent terrorist leader surrendering immediately and the discussion that follows (and words shared by other characters (Paul not being happy if you choose the rifle etc.), the humanising of the NSF (conversations) and the use of the decapitated statue of liberty which you scale.

There's so much working in conjunction, the levels biggest flaw is not really doing a good job at accommodating run and gun gameplay (which is also an issue with the game mechanics at the start themselves).

HR by comparison wasn't.

It really wasn't slow paced, within the first opening moments you're in an on rails sequence before catastrophe strikes. A whole cast is introduced and immediately ripped away, which is quite frankly terrible storytelling. You're not on par with the protagonist at all; the game is deliberately restrictive to paint a picture, burn it and cut to the chase that you're now* augmented and seeking answers.

It rushes things terribly in short.

Now what happens after is much better and keeps getting better and better (especially wandering around the offices in your own time, only for the hostages to be killed, ooph), however that botched opening is continuously being made up for; it's not nearly as deliberate or intelligently done as Liberty Island.

I think if the game started earlier, with the player actually as an un-augmented Adam, where you oversee the offices, check the security bond (as the player) with Megan - so you get to know her character, when the **** hits the fan and the plot kicks into high gear, it would actually mean far, far more, which is what the first Deus Ex did - then as a introductory header.

This all hurts HR quite a bit as the protagonists journey is a much more personal experience than JC's, having a love interest and a past history that keeps being reffered to, without that character and world building involving the player it doesn't quite work to the intended effect.

[QUOTE="ioannisdenton"]

i hated liberty island with a passion. it was empty (for my tastes) and huge and you did not where to go. you just sxplored a huge area with 3 enemies here and there untill you entered the statue from one of the entrances. the beggining of the game (liberty island) turned me off still few my friends never played Deus ex 1 cause of that level. i am serious.

and why HR beggining is a mess? i really liked it, the sow pacing the atmosfere , the music , the unatco theme slowly unvailing when in sarif's office, the mystery concerning that secret megan was about to announce, and how adam is going to get injured

skrat_01

Honestly I think despite its flaws it really is brilliant - freedom is delivered to you, and emphasised from the go, you're given choice and stressed its importance - right down to the details - the NSF not being that much of a threat at all, Unatco being grossly overpowered by comparison, the eloquent terrorist leader surrendering immediately and the discussion that follows (and words shared by other characters (Paul not being happy if you choose the rifle etc.), the humanising of the NSF (conversations) and the use of the decapitated statue of liberty which you scale.

There's so much working in conjunction, the levels biggest flaw is not really doing a good job at accommodating run and gun gameplay (which is also an issue with the game mechanics at the start themselves).

HR by comparison wasn't.

It really wasn't slow paced, within the first opening moments you're in an on rails sequence before catastrophe strikes. A whole cast is introduced and immediately ripped away, which is quite frankly terrible storytelling. You're not on par with the protagonist at all; the game is deliberately restrictive to paint a picture, burn it and cut to the chase that you're now* augmented and seeking answers.

It rushes things terribly in short.

Now what happens after is much better and keeps getting better and better (especially wandering around the offices in your own time, only for the hostages to be killed, ooph), however that botched opening is continuously being made up for; it's not nearly as deliberate or intelligently done as Liberty Island.

I think if the game started earlier, with the player actually as an un-augmented Adam, where you oversee the offices, check the security bond (as the player) with Megan - so you get to know her character, when the **** hits the fan and the plot kicks into high gear, it would actually mean far, far more, which is what the first Deus Ex did - then as a introductory header.

This all hurts HR quite a bit as the protagonists journey is a much more personal experience than JC's, having a love interest and a past history that keeps being reffered to, without that character and world building involving the player it doesn't quite work to the intended effect.