Xbox 360 and PS3 dev kits: developers don't want you to know

Unlike gamers, developers get to use Xbox 360 and PS3 with much more RAM. These dev kits makes it easier for developers to make games. But since they have more RAM (more texture, more particle effects, more geometry, etc.) they would also allow developers to run games with better graphics than the final versions. Thus, how can gamers and journalists hype the graphics of an unreleased game without being sure if it is being shown on a dev kit or on a retail version? What if all the screenshots and videos of RAGE all come from the dev kits?dragonboot

you do realize 2 of your threads about the same thing are locked already are you bandodging or what?

[QUOTE="dragonboot"]Unlike gamers, developers get to use Xbox 360 and PS3 with much more RAM. These dev kits makes it easier for developers to make games. But since they have more RAM (more texture, more particle effects, more geometry, etc.) they would also allow developers to run games with better graphics than the final versions. Thus, how can gamers and journalists hype the graphics of an unreleased game without being sure if it is being shown on a dev kit or on a retail version? What if all the screenshots and videos of RAGE all come from the dev kits?loadedboon

you do realize 2 of your threads about the same thing are locked already are you bandodging or what?

it doesnt matter the games still look great the consoles are the same in Graphics they make beautiful games, soo just leave this Graphics dev kits stuff Alone WE DONT CARE!!

it doesnt matter the games still look great the consoles are the same in Graphics they make beautiful games, soo just leave this Graphics dev kits stuff Alone WE DONT CARE!!

worknow222

[QUOTE="worknow222"]

it doesnt matter the games still look great the consoles are the same in Graphics they make beautiful games, soo just leave this Graphics dev kits stuff Alone WE DONT CARE!!

dragonboot

[QUOTE="dragonboot"][QUOTE="worknow222"]

it doesnt matter the games still look great the consoles are the same in Graphics they make beautiful games, soo just leave this Graphics dev kits stuff Alone WE DONT CARE!!

worknow222

You're right it's the dev kits. They make a special build with extra "dev-kit exclusive " textures and post-processing effects just to fool the press. Because bullshots take so much more effort. Deathtransit

[QUOTE="Deathtransit"]You're right it's the dev kits. They make a special build with extra "dev-kit exclusive " textures and post-processing effects just to fool the press. Because bullshots take so much more effort. dragonboot

it doesnt matter the games still look great the consoles are the same in Graphics they make beautiful games, soo just leave this Graphics dev kits stuff Alone WE DONT CARE!!

Who hear thinks OP it Well Nuts also OP were this Evidence of Dev kits being used for better Graphics than the consoles capable oF?

console games with best graphics IMO are

1- god of war 3

2- ninja gaiden sigma 2

3- uncharted 2

those games look amazing but the screenshot available for them are better than the actual games. specially uncharted 2, the game looks amazing but no as good as the bullshots all over the internet.

god of war 3 and ninja gaiden sigma 2 looks almost as good as the screenshots

Unlike gamers, developers get to use Xbox 360 and PS3 with much more RAM. These dev kits makes it easier for developers to make games. But since they have more RAM (more texture, more particle effects, more geometry, etc.) they would also allow developers to run games with better graphics than the final versions. Thus, how can gamers and journalists hype the graphics of an unreleased game without being sure if it is being shown on a dev kit or on a retail version? What if all the screenshots and videos of RAGE and GT5 all come from the dev kits? Every time someone hype an unreleased game for its graphics, shouldn't dev kits be part of the discussions? I think developers don't want gamers and journalists to know about dev kits. That way they can keep giving us false hopes about a game's graphical potential. If we hate bullshots, we should also hate the use of dev kits to do demo an unreleased game. Mods, please don't lock this thread. I read this forum a lot, but there never seems to be a discussion about dev kits with respect to hyped graphics.dragonboot

that's what's great about the PC

what they show off to get people to buy the game, isn't even as good as it'll look on your PC

This is old, we heard about that last year.

you want to know the answer? we don't know wether or not its on the dev kit or not. thing is if you were a dev wouldn't you want to get something close to what the game will look like rather than pull stuff out of your butt? Devs do that, most bullshot for console games have added AA, DOF and that's about it. so yes we can hype games prior to release in the graphics area. RAGE is in Pre alpha so it can only get better. the Dev kit arguement is dead :PmayceV

That's not what the extra RAM on a devkit is for. I'm guessing you've never written a line of code in your life, let alone debugged one, but when you're developing code, you test it using special debug builds, which either have the debug symbols included, or load them into memory alongside the existing binaries. These debug symbols contain references that allow the debugger to know what line of source code generated the currently executing code. Add in additional trace processes and overhead, and that's where your added RAM in a devkit goes.lowe0

[QUOTE="dragonboot"][QUOTE="Deathtransit"]You're right it's the dev kits. They make a special build with extra "dev-kit exclusive " textures and post-processing effects just to fool the press. Because bullshots take so much more effort. navyguy21

I believe the extra RAM is used for testing. Apparently they struggled with 360 development due to them using the *whole* 512mb for the game, and nothing left over for things like debugging (I read this at the time when the new 360 dev kits were released with 1gb RAM).

I believe the extra RAM is used for testing. Apparently they struggled with 360 development due to them using the *whole* 512mb for the game, and nothing left over for things like debugging (I read this at the time when the new 360 dev kits were released with 1gb RAM).

lundy86_4

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

I believe the extra RAM is used for testing. Apparently they struggled with 360 development due to them using the *whole* 512mb for the game, and nothing left over for things like debugging (I read this at the time when the new 360 dev kits were released with 1gb RAM).

dragonboot

What if it is also used for marketing??? devs make the effort to send us bullshots. What would stop them from spending a million or so use dev kits to beef up the graphics of their game for about 10 minutes when they demo a game in front of journalists all over the world? I keep telling everyone here. I am on to something about dev kits. We gamers have been fooled too many times. We have to have some distrust when it comes to information presented to us from the media.dragonboot

Why are you working with "what ifs"? It was released to help with testing and debugging, as they didn't have enough RAM before. Adding 512mb isn't gonna allow them to pump up the graphics all that much, due to the CPU/GPU also being a big part of, you know, actually displaying graphics.

Your hypothetical, whilst unique, is severely flawed.

[QUOTE="dragonboot"][QUOTE="navyguy21"]Thats not how game development works. The extra RAM is used for testing and debugging the games while they are running, rather than having to halt development for days to test the progress. It isnt used like you think to up the graphics. What would be the point of that?Ravensmash

meh, it's just the way the world works, you don't think that the foods you see in ads is what you really get right?

console games with best graphics IMO are

1- god of war 3

2- ninja gaiden sigma 2

3- uncharted 2

those games look amazing but the screenshot available for them are better than the actual games. specially uncharted 2, the game looks amazing but no as good as the bullshots all over the internet.

god of war 3 and ninja gaiden sigma 2 looks almost as good as the screenshots

pc-ps360

[QUOTE="dragonboot"]What if it is also used for marketing??? devs make the effort to send us bullshots. What would stop them from spending a million or so use dev kits to beef up the graphics of their game for about 10 minutes when they demo a game in front of journalists all over the world? I keep telling everyone here. I am on to something about dev kits. We gamers have been fooled too many times. We have to have some distrust when it comes to information presented to us from the media.lundy86_4

Why are you working with "what ifs"? It was released to help with testing and debugging, as they didn't have enough RAM before. Adding 512mb isn't gonna allow them to pump up the graphics all that much, due to the CPU/GPU also being a big part of, you know, actually displaying graphics.

Your hypothetical, whilst unique, is severely flawed.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="dragonboot"]What if it is also used for marketing??? devs make the effort to send us bullshots. What would stop them from spending a million or so use dev kits to beef up the graphics of their game for about 10 minutes when they demo a game in front of journalists all over the world? I keep telling everyone here. I am on to something about dev kits. We gamers have been fooled too many times. We have to have some distrust when it comes to information presented to us from the media.dragonboot

Why are you working with "what ifs"? It was released to help with testing and debugging, as they didn't have enough RAM before. Adding 512mb isn't gonna allow them to pump up the graphics all that much, due to the CPU/GPU also being a big part of, you know, actually displaying graphics.

Your hypothetical, whilst unique, is severely flawed.

One of the people on Joystiq website said he saw Rage running on a REGULAR Xbox 360. The dev kit Xbox 360 actually looks different than the retail version.PandaBear86

Well, the extra 512 mb (100% more RAM) might pump the graphics JUST ENOUGH to make RAGE so impressive. SO HERE'S THE ONE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION: WE KNOW RAGE WAS DEMOED ON XBOX 360 DURING E3. WAS IT A DEV KIT XBOX 360 OR A RETAIL XBOX 360????????????dragonboot

What's this "might"? Whilst it would no doubt help, I doubt it would pump up graphics ridiculously. It's simply for testing purposes.

[QUOTE="dragonboot"][QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

I believe the extra RAM is used for testing. Apparently they struggled with 360 development due to them using the *whole* 512mb for the game, and nothing left over for things like debugging (I read this at the time when the new 360 dev kits were released with 1gb RAM).

Ravensmash

[QUOTE="dragonboot"]Well, the extra 512 mb (100% more RAM) might pump the graphics JUST ENOUGH to make RAGE so impressive. SO HERE'S THE ONE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION: WE KNOW RAGE WAS DEMOED ON XBOX 360 DURING E3. WAS IT A DEV KIT XBOX 360 OR A RETAIL XBOX 360????????????lundy86_4

What's this "might"? Whilst it would no doubt help, I doubt it would pump up graphics ridiculously. It's simply for testing purposes.

You doubt, but you don't know. Marketers love to take advantage of our doubts.dragonboot

Yet you do now?

This theory you have is baseless, and well, a little bit ridiculous.

It's for testing purposes. 512mb RAM would not make a huge difference graphically.

man this thread is full of conspiracy theories...

it would be a disaster for Id if they bull'd their demoing of Rage at E3 since they're showing off their tech to other devs and not just ignorant internet users

[QUOTE="PandaBear86"]One of the people on Joystiq website said he saw Rage running on a REGULAR Xbox 360. The dev kit Xbox 360 actually looks different than the retail version.dragonboot

They can't do that because the Dev kit 360 is larger and has some extra module to make it work properly.

Here is what the Dev 360 looks like:

See that massive thing on top where the normal HDD should be? Good luck cramming that thing into the standard console itself. You need that thing to make the dev kit work properly.

So there you have it :)

Mod, if you lock this please leave an entertaining post, if ya know what I mean. TC, SW is their domain, they're the authority, if they locked you deal with it. Deathtransit

Not a big fan of being told how to do the job I volunteer for and this particular thread fall under System Wars quite nicely.

man this thread is full of conspiracy theories...

it would be a disaster for Id if they bull'd their demoing of Rage at E3 since they're showing off their tech to other devs and not just ignorant internet users

88mphSlayer

well said.

really nothing left to accomplish, except make more conspiracy theories.

[QUOTE="Deathtransit"]Mod, if you lock this please leave an entertaining post, if ya know what I mean. TC, SW is their domain, they're the authority, if they locked you deal with it. Wasdie

Not a big fan of being told how to do the job I volunteer for and this particular thread fall under System Wars quite nicely.

console games with best graphics IMO are

1- god of war 3

2- ninja gaiden sigma 2

3- uncharted 2

those games look amazing but the screenshot available for them are better than the actual games. specially uncharted 2, the game looks amazing but no as good as the bullshots all over the internet.

god of war 3 and ninja gaiden sigma 2 looks almost as good as the screenshots

pc-ps360

[QUOTE="dragonboot"][QUOTE="PandaBear86"]One of the people on Joystiq website said he saw Rage running on a REGULAR Xbox 360. The dev kit Xbox 360 actually looks different than the retail version.PandaBear86

They can't do that because the Dev kit 360 is larger and has some extra module to make it work properly.

Here is what the Dev 360 looks like:

See that massive thing on top where the normal HDD should be? Good luck cramming that thing into the standard console itself. You need that thing to make the dev kit work properly.

So there you have it :)

[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="dragonboot"] I know you are being sarcastic. But to make the best looking, smooth running, final game, developers have to create the best/most impressive graphics and then scale down as little as they can until the retail console finally can run them. I find it hard to see why you don't acknowledge that I am onto something developers don't want us gamers to think about.dragonboot

[QUOTE="dragonboot"][QUOTE="navyguy21"]Thats not how game development works. The extra RAM is used for testing and debugging the games while they are running, rather than having to halt development for days to test the progress. It isnt used like you think to up the graphics. What would be the point of that?soulitane