Xbox 360-Worst console of all time? (Intelligent arguements ONLY-rofl)

Dude.....

I have/Had a gamecube, PS2, PS1, Xbox, PS3, Wii, SNES, and a N64 for a bit

And none(not including SNES) Beat the 360 in my opinoin though the PS2 is close

personally i think the 360 is one of the best systems of all time!! or at least in the top 5!!

ARguement flawed, there is avery VERY MINOR difference between VGA and HDMI ... the difference is barely noticable.

I think its poorly designed. in every aspect though, Its fugly, the Anolog's are not that sensitive ... alot of people say its smoother than the PS2 controller but im doubting that at this point.

Also I really find it funny how my Mega Drive (Genesis) was once dropped on the floor but still works to this day while in 2 weeks after buying a 360I was on my second 360. It couldn't even beat old consoles when it comes to reliability.PelekotansDream

lol 360 owns, thats why you had 2 spend about half an hour writing how its crap(never read it never needed 2)

monkeymonfp

What do you have to say to this:

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

TC, great stuff.

My 360 has never died and I got it at launch, has never scratched discs and the D-pad is fine for all games accept fighters, for them though I use an arcade stick. My guitar for GH2 and official steering wheel are also both awesome, I can't wait for Ace Combat 6 to complete the set of periferals. An additional Steel Battallions 2 controller would be nice is Capcom make the game :D

On top of this, a good 70% of games released on it are amazingly good. A lot of them are some of the best games I've ever played.

I'm always in the right to defend the 360, it is AW360ME!!!

[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]Also I really find it funny how my Mega Drive (Genesis) was once dropped on the floor but still works to this day while in 2 weeks after buying a 360I was on my second 360. It couldn't even beat old consoles when it comes to reliability.desktopdefender

[QUOTE="monkeymonfp"]

lol 360 owns, thats why you had 2 spend about half an hour writing how its crap(never read it never needed 2)

PelekotansDream

What do you have to say to this:

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

TC, great stuff.

[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="monkeymonfp"]

lol 360 owns, thats why you had 2 spend about half an hour writing how its crap(never read it never needed 2)

desktopdefender

What do you have to say to this:

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

TC, great stuff.

[QUOTE="desktopdefender"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]Also I really find it funny how my Mega Drive (Genesis) was once dropped on the floor but still works to this day while in 2 weeks after buying a 360I was on my second 360. It couldn't even beat old consoles when it comes to reliability.PelekotansDream

BTW im a Manti Lem i have both a 360/PS3/Wii

Guess which one i use the most? and play the most?

[QUOTE="desktopdefender"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]Also I really find it funny how my Mega Drive (Genesis) was once dropped on the floor but still works to this day while in 2 weeks after buying a 360I was on my second 360. It couldn't even beat old consoles when it comes to reliability.PelekotansDream

I'd say a fair percentage is the owners fault, but with a good excuse.

We used to be able to give our consoles a fair amount of abuse, especailly the SNES and Genesis. We then treat cthe new consoles in the same way, chucking them in a bag to take to friends houses, leaving discs out of their boxes etc etc

I treat mine like I do my PC, even down to reversing out of a game to the start screen and then back to the dashboard before removing the disc. It hasn't yet broke, so maybe I'm doing it right or it could be I'm just lucky at the moment.

[QUOTE="desktopdefender"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="monkeymonfp"]

lol 360 owns, thats why you had 2 spend about half an hour writing how its crap(never read it never needed 2)

ryuishero

What do you have to say to this:

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

TC, great stuff.

I said, "Wow" worst Damage Control ever. People who troll these days need new material.

Dude i both a 360 and PS3 belive me i could care less, both Microsoft and Sony do microtransactions

Yeah the D-Pad does suck and has problems but apart from that the controller is good. The hardware sucks though although fanboys love running around claiming that is made up.PelekotansDream

The hardware doesn't suck, the hardware design however, is not very good.

[QUOTE="ryuishero"][QUOTE="desktopdefender"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="monkeymonfp"]

lol 360 owns, thats why you had 2 spend about half an hour writing how its crap(never read it never needed 2)

desktopdefender

What do you have to say to this:

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

TC, great stuff.

I said, "Wow" worst Damage Control ever. People who troll these days need new material.

Dude i both a 360 and PS3 belive me i could care less, both Microsoft and Sony do microtransactions

I never said you were trolling. So now you're assuming that you're trolling. Are you in your honest opinion?

BTW please don't use broken english.

Pelokotans, it's only great because it agrees with your own subjective opinions. Try to be less of a fanboy and think about the argument that is being put forward.

TC - I also resent paying for Xbox Live - however, if anybody is paying the full $50 for it, they don't deserve to be using it in the first place. It's available very easily for half price in a lot of places that I don't need to link you to. Also, the fact that you speak of it as a monthly payment is clearly just to support your own argument by slightly bending the truth. If the monthly is too much, buy the yearly - it works out less. My year of Xbox Live cost me $25 (£12.50). Only slightly over a pound per month. I probably lose more than that in the street in a day.

You mention the hardware specs limiting creativity - I disagree, it's entirely feasible for a game that requires it to use multiple disks. It's not the greatest solution of course, but stating that limited DVD space is going to stop devs releasing bigger and more creative games is simply not the case. If they want to be creative to the point that they fill the DVD, they can simply use another DVD and let the creative juices flow. I do agree with you that the release of the core system was a poor choice - I won't argue that. In terms of HD, the Premium system fully supports using VGA on HDTVs, and supports 1080p via VGA - now, the difference between VGA and HDMI is negligable. It's there sure, but isn't particularly going to hamper anybody's enjoyment, and it certainly isn't about to make games look poor. I agree that the release of the Elite was a kick in the teeth, but that doesn't devalue the 360 playing the games that are designed for it anyway. It's not going to render the Premium redundant. Frankly, the fact that you recommend 'doing a Sega' and becoming more like the Dreamcast speaks wonders - let's not forget that, yes, although good games were released for the DC, the DC failed commercially and creatively, and forced Sega out of the hardware market indefinitely. Not a wise business model to be following. The only reason Sony continue to try it is due to the expansive money banks backing them, but they do not have good track records and therefore one can be forgiven for looking at the PS3 with a slightly cynical eye.

The controller is completely subjective, but to call it the worst controller ever made is apalling. The pad is comfortable, responsive, and in my opinion has perfect button placement. The triggers rounded upwards means a better comfort factor and no 'slipping' which is prominent with the PS3 triggers, and the bumpers are very well balanced and means that the users fingers don't have to be at an exact point on the bumpers - they cater for people with longer or shorter fingers because they can be pressed easily along the entire length of the button. What you use as it's downfall (pressing it too easily) is a bonus for myself - I have long fingers and buttons like that can be very hard to press with the limited leverage near the controller casing - whereas the 360 is balanced along the length of the button. I don't like the D-Pad, it's true that there are problems with it. It's poor for the games that require it (2D fighters mainly) but the only saving grace I can think of is that those games are few and far between. The analogue sticks are a million miles better than the PS3 - a love for FPS games will tell you that - the PS3 analogues feel too loose and not 'taught' enough or springy enough. This can lead to aiming problems, because IMO the best aspect of the sticks on the 360 is that you need a push a little harder to move them, and leads to more precision. Of course that's IMO, but I would rather use the 360 pad for an FPS than the PS3 pad. And of course, you have emitted rumble/feedback, which can lead to increased immersion in games - and is especially useful in racing/driving games to correctly judge surfaces and friction with the road. I never thought rumble was a big deal, until I had to play without it. I don't dislike the PS3 pad, but it still has the same issues as the PS2 pad, and has even lost some aspects (it's not heavy enough and has no rumble yet).

Microtransactions - in agreement with you here. It's not a good way for games to be going. The only justification I can think of is that expansion packs can also be used as DLC, and that is a great idea. The Oblivion expansions will tell you that Microtransactions can be great - with KotN and Shivering Isles being great additions at a relatively low cost. You mention the Gears maps - let's not forget that these maps are becoming free soon, and are not permanent 'paid' DLC. The same goes for the Halo maps. Also - we need to remember that the Resistance map pack needs to be paid for, and is more expensive than the Gears map pack. I'm not knocking Resistance, I'm just saying that to use a paid map pack is pointless when inferring that the 360 is the worst console - because it's not the only one doing it and is cheaper than the 'opposition'.

The lag on Xbox Live is not a valid argument. Some suffer lag, some don't. I myself don't experience much lag at all - aside from Gears, which is a sack of crap anyway, I havn't experienced any notable lag with any other game. I have also played matches on Resistance that lag, and some that have been perfect - that's no reason to knock PSN or the PS3, it's simply an unfortunate circumstance in the game - maybe a poor connection to the server/host (regardless of connection speed, this is possible), maybe network interference, maybe a poorly configured router? Who knows, but I don't see your experience of lag being a case against the 360 as a machine - if the Live service was unusable and was a 'laggy mess' (your words) it wouldn't have the users or the popularity that it does. It's subjective - your experiences are in the minority.

Also, in future can you please use a larger font? It's bad enough to be faced with a WoT (I'm guilty of it with this post too, I know) without struggling to read the text that is there aswell.

May I also add (like I had to in the 'defective hardware thread') - in the UK, there is a very strict law governing electronics of all types and defective rates. If the rate of defective hardware reaches 12%, the product is required, BY LAW to be recalled and removed from shelves until the defective hardware rate can be fixed.

As of this morning - there has still been NO recall.

People if you don't read the text your opinions are worth just as much as garbage.

I thought your text had some pretty smart information that I hadn't really thought of like the online service and the controller. Thanks for sharing your intellect with us :P

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

Angryduck67

This is what its all about. This is why everygamer whose Xbox 360 fails should demand a refund. Microsoft's model for gaming is to nickel and dime you to death.

This also is their intention with "Made for Windows" on the PC. They want to control all aspects and make you pay them for everything.

Someday, the FPS game you just bought will come standard with a slingshot. You'll have to pay for a pistol, pay more for a rifle, pay even more for a semi-automatic. Heck I wouldn't be suprised if someday you'd have to pay Microsoft for virtual gas to power in game vehicles.

Pelokotans, it's only great because it agrees with your own subjective opinions. Try to be less of a fanboy and think about the argument that is being put forward.

TC - I also resent paying for Xbox Live - however, if anybody is paying the full $50 for it, they don't deserve to be using it in the first place. It's available very easily for half price in a lot of places that I don't need to link you to. Also, the fact that you speak of it as a monthly payment is clearly just to support your own argument by slightly bending the truth. If the monthly is too much, buy the yearly - it works out less. My year of Xbox Live cost me $25 (£12.50). Only slightly over a pound per month. I probably lose more than that in the street in a day.

You mention the hardware specs limiting creativity - I disagree, it's entirely feasible for a game that requires it to use multiple disks. It's not the greatest solution of course, but stating that limited DVD space is going to stop devs releasing bigger and more creative games is simply not the case. If they want to be creative to the point that they fill the DVD, they can simply use another DVD and let the creative juices flow. I do agree with you that the release of the core system was a poor choice - I won't argue that. In terms of HD, the Premium system fully supports using VGA on HDTVs, and supports 1080p via VGA - now, the difference between VGA and HDMI is negligable. It's there sure, but isn't particularly going to hamper anybody's enjoyment, and it certainly isn't about to make games look poor. I agree that the release of the Elite was a kick in the teeth, but that doesn't devalue the 360 playing the games that are designed for it anyway. It's not going to render the Premium redundant. Frankly, the fact that you recommend 'doing a Sega' and becoming more like the Dreamcast speaks wonders - let's not forget that, yes, although good games were released for the DC, the DC failed commercially and creatively, and forced Sega out of the hardware market indefinitely. Not a wise business model to be following. The only reason Sony continue to try it is due to the expansive money banks backing them, but they do not have good track records and therefore one can be forgiven for looking at the PS3 with a slightly cynical eye.

The controller is completely subjective, but to call it the worst controller ever made is apalling. The pad is comfortable, responsive, and in my opinion has perfect button placement. The triggers rounded upwards means a better comfort factor and no 'slipping' which is prominent with the PS3 triggers, and the bumpers are very well balanced and means that the users fingers don't have to be at an exact point on the bumpers - they cater for people with longer or shorter fingers because they can be pressed easily along the entire length of the button. What you use as it's downfall (pressing it too easily) is a bonus for myself - I have long fingers and buttons like that can be very hard to press with the limited leverage near the controller casing - whereas the 360 is balanced along the length of the button. I don't like the D-Pad, it's true that there are problems with it. It's poor for the games that require it (2D fighters mainly) but the only saving grace I can think of is that those games are few and far between. The analogue sticks are a million miles better than the PS3 - a love for FPS games will tell you that - the PS3 analogues feel too loose and not 'taught' enough or springy enough. This can lead to aiming problems, because IMO the best aspect of the sticks on the 360 is that you need a push a little harder to move them, and leads to more precision. Of course that's IMO, but I would rather use the 360 pad for an FPS than the PS3 pad. And of course, you have emitted rumble/feedback, which can lead to increased immersion in games - and is especially useful in racing/driving games to correctly judge surfaces and friction with the road. I never thought rumble was a big deal, until I had to play without it. I don't dislike the PS3 pad, but it still has the same issues as the PS2 pad, and has even lost some aspects (it's not heavy enough and has no rumble yet).

Microtransactions - in agreement with you here. It's not a good way for games to be going. The only justification I can think of is that expansion packs can also be used as DLC, and that is a great idea. The Oblivion expansions will tell you that Microtransactions can be great - with KotN and Shivering Isles being great additions at a relatively low cost. You mention the Gears maps - let's not forget that these maps are becoming free soon, and are not permanent 'paid' DLC. The same goes for the Halo maps. Also - we need to remember that the Resistance map pack needs to be paid for, and is more expensive than the Gears map pack. I'm not knocking Resistance, I'm just saying that to use a paid map pack is pointless when inferring that the 360 is the worst console - because it's not the only one doing it and is cheaper than the 'opposition'.

The lag on Xbox Live is not a valid argument. Some suffer lag, some don't. I myself don't experience much lag at all - aside from Gears, which is a sack of crap anyway, I havn't experienced any notable lag with any other game. I have also played matches on Resistance that lag, and some that have been perfect - that's no reason to knock PSN or the PS3, it's simply an unfortunate circumstance in the game - maybe a poor connection to the server/host (regardless of connection speed, this is possible), maybe network interference, maybe a poorly configured router? Who knows, but I don't see your experience of lag being a case against the 360 as a machine - if the Live service was unusable and was a 'laggy mess' (your words) it wouldn't have the users or the popularity that it does. It's subjective - your experiences are in the minority.

Also, in future can you please use a larger font? It's bad enough to be faced with a WoT (I'm guilty of it with this post too, I know) without struggling to read the text that is there aswell.

RDS_Phoenix

[QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

Pelokotans, it's only great because it agrees with your own subjective opinions. Try to be less of a fanboy and think about the argument that is being put forward.

TC - I also resent paying for Xbox Live - however, if anybody is paying the full $50 for it, they don't deserve to be using it in the first place. It's available very easily for half price in a lot of places that I don't need to link you to. Also, the fact that you speak of it as a monthly payment is clearly just to support your own argument by slightly bending the truth. If the monthly is too much, buy the yearly - it works out less. My year of Xbox Live cost me $25 (£12.50). Only slightly over a pound per month. I probably lose more than that in the street in a day.

You mention the hardware specs limiting creativity - I disagree, it's entirely feasible for a game that requires it to use multiple disks. It's not the greatest solution of course, but stating that limited DVD space is going to stop devs releasing bigger and more creative games is simply not the case. If they want to be creative to the point that they fill the DVD, they can simply use another DVD and let the creative juices flow. I do agree with you that the release of the core system was a poor choice - I won't argue that. In terms of HD, the Premium system fully supports using VGA on HDTVs, and supports 1080p via VGA - now, the difference between VGA and HDMI is negligable. It's there sure, but isn't particularly going to hamper anybody's enjoyment, and it certainly isn't about to make games look poor. I agree that the release of the Elite was a kick in the teeth, but that doesn't devalue the 360 playing the games that are designed for it anyway. It's not going to render the Premium redundant. Frankly, the fact that you recommend 'doing a Sega' and becoming more like the Dreamcast speaks wonders - let's not forget that, yes, although good games were released for the DC, the DC failed commercially and creatively, and forced Sega out of the hardware market indefinitely. Not a wise business model to be following. The only reason Sony continue to try it is due to the expansive money banks backing them, but they do not have good track records and therefore one can be forgiven for looking at the PS3 with a slightly cynical eye.

The controller is completely subjective, but to call it the worst controller ever made is apalling. The pad is comfortable, responsive, and in my opinion has perfect button placement. The triggers rounded upwards means a better comfort factor and no 'slipping' which is prominent with the PS3 triggers, and the bumpers are very well balanced and means that the users fingers don't have to be at an exact point on the bumpers - they cater for people with longer or shorter fingers because they can be pressed easily along the entire length of the button. What you use as it's downfall (pressing it too easily) is a bonus for myself - I have long fingers and buttons like that can be very hard to press with the limited leverage near the controller casing - whereas the 360 is balanced along the length of the button. I don't like the D-Pad, it's true that there are problems with it. It's poor for the games that require it (2D fighters mainly) but the only saving grace I can think of is that those games are few and far between. The analogue sticks are a million miles better than the PS3 - a love for FPS games will tell you that - the PS3 analogues feel too loose and not 'taught' enough or springy enough. This can lead to aiming problems, because IMO the best aspect of the sticks on the 360 is that you need a push a little harder to move them, and leads to more precision. Of course that's IMO, but I would rather use the 360 pad for an FPS than the PS3 pad. And of course, you have emitted rumble/feedback, which can lead to increased immersion in games - and is especially useful in racing/driving games to correctly judge surfaces and friction with the road. I never thought rumble was a big deal, until I had to play without it. I don't dislike the PS3 pad, but it still has the same issues as the PS2 pad, and has even lost some aspects (it's not heavy enough and has no rumble yet).

Microtransactions - in agreement with you here. It's not a good way for games to be going. The only justification I can think of is that expansion packs can also be used as DLC, and that is a great idea. The Oblivion expansions will tell you that Microtransactions can be great - with KotN and Shivering Isles being great additions at a relatively low cost. You mention the Gears maps - let's not forget that these maps are becoming free soon, and are not permanent 'paid' DLC. The same goes for the Halo maps. Also - we need to remember that the Resistance map pack needs to be paid for, and is more expensive than the Gears map pack. I'm not knocking Resistance, I'm just saying that to use a paid map pack is pointless when inferring that the 360 is the worst console - because it's not the only one doing it and is cheaper than the 'opposition'.

The lag on Xbox Live is not a valid argument. Some suffer lag, some don't. I myself don't experience much lag at all - aside from Gears, which is a sack of crap anyway, I havn't experienced any notable lag with any other game. I have also played matches on Resistance that lag, and some that have been perfect - that's no reason to knock PSN or the PS3, it's simply an unfortunate circumstance in the game - maybe a poor connection to the server/host (regardless of connection speed, this is possible), maybe network interference, maybe a poorly configured router? Who knows, but I don't see your experience of lag being a case against the 360 as a machine - if the Live service was unusable and was a 'laggy mess' (your words) it wouldn't have the users or the popularity that it does. It's subjective - your experiences are in the minority.

Also, in future can you please use a larger font? It's bad enough to be faced with a WoT (I'm guilty of it with this post too, I know) without struggling to read the text that is there aswell.

PelekotansDream

Do you have actual data that can prove that you play your 360 ever day? Are you going to record yourself playing your 360 every day for the remainder of the year. If not, then you cannot prove that you do what you say you do. The X360 does have faults, but they're minor.

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

And Pelokatans - I called you a fanboy because it wasn't simply an admission that the 360 has faults (which I too admitted), it was a backslapping of the TC that used rather minor, and very subjective, opinions to brand the 360 'the worst console ever'. Guilty by association. I admit is has faults, but they are in no way 'deal breaking' and in most cases are completely in line with the faults suffered by the PS3 and Wii too - the phrase 'worst console ever' is rediculous, and simply fanboyish all over. By agreeing to that, you come across equally as fanboy, whether you like it or not. Hence me saying 'less of the fanboy' and not directly accusing.

[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

Pelokotans, it's only great because it agrees with your own subjective opinions. Try to be less of a fanboy and think about the argument that is being put forward.

TC - I also resent paying for Xbox Live - however, if anybody is paying the full $50 for it, they don't deserve to be using it in the first place. It's available very easily for half price in a lot of places that I don't need to link you to. Also, the fact that you speak of it as a monthly payment is clearly just to support your own argument by slightly bending the truth. If the monthly is too much, buy the yearly - it works out less. My year of Xbox Live cost me $25 (£12.50). Only slightly over a pound per month. I probably lose more than that in the street in a day.

You mention the hardware specs limiting creativity - I disagree, it's entirely feasible for a game that requires it to use multiple disks. It's not the greatest solution of course, but stating that limited DVD space is going to stop devs releasing bigger and more creative games is simply not the case. If they want to be creative to the point that they fill the DVD, they can simply use another DVD and let the creative juices flow. I do agree with you that the release of the core system was a poor choice - I won't argue that. In terms of HD, the Premium system fully supports using VGA on HDTVs, and supports 1080p via VGA - now, the difference between VGA and HDMI is negligable. It's there sure, but isn't particularly going to hamper anybody's enjoyment, and it certainly isn't about to make games look poor. I agree that the release of the Elite was a kick in the teeth, but that doesn't devalue the 360 playing the games that are designed for it anyway. It's not going to render the Premium redundant. Frankly, the fact that you recommend 'doing a Sega' and becoming more like the Dreamcast speaks wonders - let's not forget that, yes, although good games were released for the DC, the DC failed commercially and creatively, and forced Sega out of the hardware market indefinitely. Not a wise business model to be following. The only reason Sony continue to try it is due to the expansive money banks backing them, but they do not have good track records and therefore one can be forgiven for looking at the PS3 with a slightly cynical eye.

The controller is completely subjective, but to call it the worst controller ever made is apalling. The pad is comfortable, responsive, and in my opinion has perfect button placement. The triggers rounded upwards means a better comfort factor and no 'slipping' which is prominent with the PS3 triggers, and the bumpers are very well balanced and means that the users fingers don't have to be at an exact point on the bumpers - they cater for people with longer or shorter fingers because they can be pressed easily along the entire length of the button. What you use as it's downfall (pressing it too easily) is a bonus for myself - I have long fingers and buttons like that can be very hard to press with the limited leverage near the controller casing - whereas the 360 is balanced along the length of the button. I don't like the D-Pad, it's true that there are problems with it. It's poor for the games that require it (2D fighters mainly) but the only saving grace I can think of is that those games are few and far between. The analogue sticks are a million miles better than the PS3 - a love for FPS games will tell you that - the PS3 analogues feel too loose and not 'taught' enough or springy enough. This can lead to aiming problems, because IMO the best aspect of the sticks on the 360 is that you need a push a little harder to move them, and leads to more precision. Of course that's IMO, but I would rather use the 360 pad for an FPS than the PS3 pad. And of course, you have emitted rumble/feedback, which can lead to increased immersion in games - and is especially useful in racing/driving games to correctly judge surfaces and friction with the road. I never thought rumble was a big deal, until I had to play without it. I don't dislike the PS3 pad, but it still has the same issues as the PS2 pad, and has even lost some aspects (it's not heavy enough and has no rumble yet).

Microtransactions - in agreement with you here. It's not a good way for games to be going. The only justification I can think of is that expansion packs can also be used as DLC, and that is a great idea. The Oblivion expansions will tell you that Microtransactions can be great - with KotN and Shivering Isles being great additions at a relatively low cost. You mention the Gears maps - let's not forget that these maps are becoming free soon, and are not permanent 'paid' DLC. The same goes for the Halo maps. Also - we need to remember that the Resistance map pack needs to be paid for, and is more expensive than the Gears map pack. I'm not knocking Resistance, I'm just saying that to use a paid map pack is pointless when inferring that the 360 is the worst console - because it's not the only one doing it and is cheaper than the 'opposition'.

The lag on Xbox Live is not a valid argument. Some suffer lag, some don't. I myself don't experience much lag at all - aside from Gears, which is a sack of crap anyway, I havn't experienced any notable lag with any other game. I have also played matches on Resistance that lag, and some that have been perfect - that's no reason to knock PSN or the PS3, it's simply an unfortunate circumstance in the game - maybe a poor connection to the server/host (regardless of connection speed, this is possible), maybe network interference, maybe a poorly configured router? Who knows, but I don't see your experience of lag being a case against the 360 as a machine - if the Live service was unusable and was a 'laggy mess' (your words) it wouldn't have the users or the popularity that it does. It's subjective - your experiences are in the minority.

Also, in future can you please use a larger font? It's bad enough to be faced with a WoT (I'm guilty of it with this post too, I know) without struggling to read the text that is there aswell.

ryuishero

Do you have actual data that can prove that you play your 360 ever day? Are you going to record yourself playing your 360 every day for the remainder of the year. If not, then you cannot prove that you do what you say you do. The X360 does have faults, but they're minor.

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

RDS_Phoenix

And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

RDS_Phoenix

I'm not sure, but if they did implement that, it would suck. Be that as it may, you can not deny Microsofts vision: microtransactions. They have already implemented that strategy, therefore they bear the brunt of critisism.

[QUOTE="monkeymonfp"]

lol 360 owns, thats why you had 2 spend about half an hour writing how its crap(never read it never needed 2)

PelekotansDream

What do you have to say to this:

Then we have micro-transactions......I do not even need to talk about these. The best example of MS hurting the console industry for profit. Micro-transactions are a product of sheer greed and will not go anywhere anytime soon since they pull in so much extra cash. We are just as much at fault for buying into this garbage as they are for providing it. However, this system is truly bad for the undustry because it allows developers to ship un-finished games and charge us for the rest later, enabling them to exploit us in ways we cannot even see coming. And if devs want to release free content, they can't, MS won't let them. Geometery Wars was supposed to be free, the new maps for Gears were supposed to be free. Who knows what else was supposed to be free but MS forced them to charge us for it. The Xbox 360 has damaged the market in a way that may never be reversed. Another reason why the Xbox 360 is the worst console ever made.

TC, great stuff.

sony does the same thing...ZOMG PS3 worst console ever!!!

[QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

PelekotansDream

its fanboyish to agree with a person who calls the 360 the worst console ever...so look in the mirror and realize why people call u fanboy

[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

ApocalypseXIVV

its fanboyish to agree with a person who calls the 360 the worst console ever...so look in the mirror and realize why people call u fanboy

Since when did having an opinion of what they thought was the worst console result in being a fanboy?

Everyone is quick to call everyone else a fanboy these days. Learn what the word means.

As for the post before, if Sony do that then they suck also.

And like I said before, if I am a fanboy against the 360 then why do I play it every day? Answer that one.

[QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

PelekotansDream

Thing is, a lot of it is made up - simply because it's not provable. The PS3 is a high price. It's provable, because it's available to purchase at that price. The low specs of the Wii is provable, because the system is out there and we know what the specs are. With the 360, user KNOW that a percentage of systems are breaking down. Everyone knows that, and I'm 100% sure that will never see a 360 user or fanboy claim that none of the 360s are breaking. What you WILL find, is dispute over the actual percentage. I've given you information - that if there is a 12% defective rate the 360 has to be recalled BY LAW in the UK, yet you still see people saying 'it must be 30%, it must be HUGE' when the facts are right on their doorstep but nobody wants to see them. Yes, 360s are breaking. No, I don't know how many. No, mine still works. Yes, the D-Pad is a sack of crap and paying for Live sucks. No, the D-Pad isn't used too often, and nobody has to pay full price for Live. I have AGREED that the 360 has bad points, I know they are there. What I'm saying is that in no way does it qualify the statement '360 is the worst console ever' which you then agreed with by stating 'great post TC' - no, it wasn't a great post. It was long and well stated, but was disgustingly biased - in no way is the 360 the worst console ever. It has points that are not desirable, and I would rather be without (Microtransactions), but the people here knocking MS are doing just that - KNOCKING MS. Microsoft is not the 360. The 360 itself is a fine machine - I hate Ms's business model as much as anyone else, but when I'm bloody well enjoying playing some of these tremendous games, the 360 is worth every penny I paid for it and in no way 'the worst console ever'.

And I see from your post above that you have no idea what you agreed to. The TC never stated 'the 360 is the worst console of the three' - that's a valid point if you prefer the PS3 or Wii. Fine with me, no problem there. The TC however, repeats the words 'the 360 is the worst console EVER' over and over - this is what you agreed with by saying 'great post TC'. So you are, in effect, rating the 360 below every console ever made in history. THAT is why I claimed you were posting in a manner of a fanboy - I never once called you a fanboy, simply stated that your posts in this thread were coming across similar to that of a fanboy.

Couldn't be bothered reading that bs S1xSh0t

Don't reply then. Some things in this world require a shred of intellect to comprehend and debate.

[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

RDS_Phoenix

Thing is, a lot of it is made up - simply because it's not provable. The PS3 is a high price. It's provable, because it's available to purchase at that price. The low specs of the Wii is provable, because the system is out there and we know what the specs are. With the 360, user KNOW that a percentage of systems are breaking down. Everyone knows that, and I'm 100% sure that will never see a 360 user or fanboy claim that none of the 360s are breaking. What you WILL find, is dispute over the actual percentage. I've given you information - that if there is a 12% defective rate the 360 has to be recalled BY LAW in the UK, yet you still see people saying 'it must be 30%, it must be HUGE' when the facts are right on their doorstep but nobody wants to see them. Yes, 360s are breaking. No, I don't know how many. No, mine still works. Yes, the D-Pad is a sack of crap and paying for Live sucks. No, the D-Pad isn't used too often, and nobody has to pay full price for Live. I have AGREED that the 360 has bad points, I know they are there. What I'm saying is that in no way does it qualify the statement '360 is the worst console ever' which you then agreed with by stating 'great post TC' - no, it wasn't a great post. It was long and well stated, but was disgustingly biased - in no way is the 360 the worst console ever. It has points that are not desirable, and I would rather be without (Microtransactions), but the people here knocking MS are doing just that - KNOCKING MS. Microsoft is not the 360. The 360 itself is a fine machine - I hate Ms's business model as much as anyone else, but when I'm bloody well enjoying playing some of these tremendous games, the 360 is worth every penny I paid for it and in no way 'the worst console ever'.

I enjoy it aswell, but like you I admit to the bad problems. I am serious when I say I have about 5 friends who all had to send theirs back in. That is a high number and never found that to be with other consoles so from first hand experience I can say it is true. In gamestation over at Uxbridge in the UK I had to return my console after 2 weeks and they had problems replacing my unit because nearly every console there was getting the same start up problems.

So I have experienced this first hand and so have many of my friends. That is why I now it is not a lie, and not a group of fanboys making this up when these situations happen. I do enjoy the games and Live but hey, I aint in denial about this.

[QUOTE="ApocalypseXIVV"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

PelekotansDream

its fanboyish to agree with a person who calls the 360 the worst console ever...so look in the mirror and realize why people call u fanboy

Since when did having an opinion of what they thought was the worst console result in being a fanboy?

Everyone is quick to call everyone else a fanboy these days. Learn what the word means.

As for the post before, if Sony do that then they suck also.

And like I said before, if I am a fanboy against the 360 then why do I play it every day? Answer that one.

First, he said the worst console ever made....i think the PS3 is the worst console now...it has no good games and is too expensive...since the majority of the world still doesnt have HDTV's why do I, who also dont have an HDTV need blue-ray?

But...does that mean the PS3 is the worst console ever made? no. Ill leave that honor to things like the 3DO, and other awful consoles...saying the 360's the worst console ever is fanboyish...fanboy

[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="ApocalypseXIVV"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"][QUOTE="RDS_Phoenix"]

To be honest, the majority of this thread is ignoring the longer posts (from the TC and myself) and just getting a kick in at MS. If you want to do that, go elsewhere. And to Subcritical - forgive me, but wasn't it Sony that were planning the GT game that just had the menus on a disk and the user had to purchase EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the game?

God people - start supporting the GAMES, rather than knocking the systems they are on. If you all opened your eyes, you would realise every system has good and bad, every system has reasons against it, but every single system that is available has some DAMN GOOD GAMES.

ApocalypseXIVV

its fanboyish to agree with a person who calls the 360 the worst console ever...so look in the mirror and realize why people call u fanboy

Since when did having an opinion of what they thought was the worst console result in being a fanboy?

Everyone is quick to call everyone else a fanboy these days. Learn what the word means.

As for the post before, if Sony do that then they suck also.

And like I said before, if I am a fanboy against the 360 then why do I play it every day? Answer that one.

First, he said the worst console ever made....i think the PS3 is the worst console now...it has no good games and is too expensive...since the majority of the world still doesnt have HDTV's why do I, who also dont have an HDTV need blue-ray?

But...does that mean the PS3 is the worst console ever made? no. Ill leave that honor to things like the 3DO, and other awful consoles...saying the 360's the worst console ever is fanboyish...fanboy

When I talk about judging a console based on more than games, which are easily the most important aspect of any platform, I talk about innovation and pushing the industry foward in ways that create new avenues of creativity and self-expression within games themselves. Before I start bashing the 360 without mercy, I will say that the one area the 360 excells in is it's visuals. With the best looking games on the market, giving the devs more power and a more flexible machine has allowed games to go in more directions than before, games like Viva Pinata and Blue Dragon are great examples. However, things are more complicated than "how good are it's graphics??" and that is where the 360 pisses me off like no other.

You have not even answered my question, you are skirting around it like a fortune teller. Hinting but not quite telling. An opinion that you think a console is the worst does not make you a fanboy, grow up and stop being so quick to call everyone a fanboy. I aint a fanboy because I have reasons and personal experiences which is what my views are based on, how is that a fanboy? A fanboy would dislike for no reason but I have a reason.