XBOX and Motorola talks fall apart. 360 closer to becoming banned

If this goes through, then how could Xbox Live continue to be online? Wouldn't it be a service that facilitates the use of a product that's in violation of patent laws?

Hopefully these tech giants start lobbying for change in the patent system instead of using it as their little pawn game to grab some $$$ off other people's success.

If this keeps up, then Microsoft is going to have to release the New Console earlier than what they planned.

Also wouldn't this mean that Current Xbox 360 games will be harder to emulate for the Nextbox too?

That would mean that the Nextbox wouldn't have Backwards compatibility wouldn't it?

[QUOTE="Obviously_Right"]

[QUOTE="mems_1224"] so you think that just because the 360 is banned it will keep ps4 from charging for online?? what kind of ass backwards logic is that? and this gen would be so awful without the online innovations MS brought to consoles.mems_1224

Achievements aside, what innovations are these then? (This should be good).

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="Obviously_Right"]

Achievements aside, what innovations are these then? (This should be good).

kuraimen

Segment from Link:

Microsoft has turned down a settlement offer by Motorola Mobility that would have brought an end to an extraordinarily expensive patent dispute which could ultimately outlaw sales of some Xbox consoles in the US.

The Xbox firm is feverishly trying to escape one of the most disastrous legal rulings imposed on the company in its thirty-seven-year history, after the International Trade Commission (ITC) was advised in May to ban the import and sale of Xbox 360 systems in the United States unless the dispute was settled.

Microsoft, which has defied all major outcomes of the case, has warned the ITC that banning Xbox 360 across the US would not serve the public interest, because it would leave the market with a choice between PlayStation 3 and Nintendo's Wii.

Shaw rejected the argument, claiming that enforcing intellectual property rights takes precedence.

Apple and Activision plus other companies don't want the ban to happen, but this is one step closer. People say it won't happen, but this is confirmation that it's coming closer. Will this affect the Xbox 720?

Discuss.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/354709/xbox-360-ban-microsoft-rejects-motorola-settlement/

dream431ca

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-gets-help-in-fighing-possible-xbox-360-us-import-ban

Ars Technica reports that these companies, which include Apple, Cisco, HP, Nokia, Intel and Activision, feel that Motorola is not offering to license the patents to Microsoft under fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms and is instead taking another route by suing Microsoft.

In addition to those companies, a number of US lawmakers have also written to the ITC with their own objections to the possible import ban. US House of Representatives member Darrell Issa (R-CA) told the ITC in his own letter, "An exclusion order would eliminate the only U.S. based videogame console from a market."

360 is DOOMED

[QUOTE="dream431ca"] Holy ****ing crap. I'm lost for words. Its going to be... banned? o_O [QUOTE="mems_1224"]

This could hinder the 720 launch.

simomate

Wow its like the Sega Saturn doing the same thing and flopping horrendously is just burned from everyone's collective consciousness.

Besides, this could probably be imposed on the 720 as well, and if not releasing earlier when titles and stores aren't ready (as I mentioned) did not work out well for the Saturn when it got destroyed by the PSOne months later.

Anyways I don't think MS would just let this happen, if it does happen it would be bad for business and bad for the industry as a whole. Regardless of what I think of their current direction in gaming, this would be a blow to them and to us as gamers.

[QUOTE="simomate"][QUOTE="dream431ca"] how? they'll probably just have to launch earlier than they thoughtSPYDER0416

Wow its like the Sega Saturn doing the same thing and flopping horrendously is just burned from everyone's collective consciousness.

Besides, this could probably be imposed on the 720 as well, and if not releasing earlier when titles and stores aren't ready (as I mentioned) did not work out well for the Saturn when it got destroyed by the PSOne months later.

Yep. Doesn't matter when a console gets released. It matters if it's ready to be released or not.

even if this did happen it wont effect next gen which looks to be an easy win for MS

Man, this would be a great loss to video games if this were to pull through.

verbtex

Really doubt this will pull through. But yeah only idiots would believe this to be a "good" thing.

hell yea ban kinect360 and bring on kinect720

Really doubt this will pull through. But yeah only idiots would believe this to be a "good" thing.

Slashless

[QUOTE="verbtex"]

[QUOTE="inb4uall"]

We aren't supposed to hope people lose jobs so I won't but I sure aas hell don't feel sorry for M$ they're greedy. Not saying other companies aren't but M$ is big time.

Ninja-Hippo

I don't think people will lose their jobs, Microsoft will just push out their next console a little sooner and be more mindful of their patents.

Google really does hate MSNEWMAHAY

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] It's patent trolling at it's finest though, and a prime example of why we are in desperate need of patent reform. When Motorola can cause this much havoc based on the use of technology that has absolutely nothing to do with their industry or their patent's original intentions, you know things are in need of a shakeup.Obviously_Right

Its funny...even if the 360 gets banned, the PS3 still won't catch up, it'll still be dead last with the worst sales, the least games and the most broken promises.

It is a patent on H.264... Nearly all video content is encoded with H.264 at some level. Charging 2.25% of all profits on the Xbox 360 for tiny piece of a video codec(Motorola's patents aren't even really the full scope of what is necessary to actually use H.264... MPEG LA has those patents, and charges a fraction of a cent per unit per patent)is absolutely insane, which is what MS has been arguing all along. Same with 50 cents per copy of Windows. Motorola just happens to have a patent related to the video codec(and they are one of nearly 40 different companies with similar patents and one of the LEAST significant of the companies holding H.264 patent) and they have decided to partake in the patent trolling circle jerk that is going on within the tech industry.

Motorola was asking for almost a thousand times more than the "cap" on the MPEG LA patent pool(the cap is $6.5 million). Consider this... MPEG LA hold 60% of all patents related to H.264. They ask for pennies per unit and cap the royalty at $6.5 million per year. Motorola has approximately 6% of the patents related to H.264. They were asking for $4 billion annually. I will grant that Motorola's patents may be more important to playing internet video, but that does not make the asking price any less absurd. Also consider that last week they were asking 2.25% per PC using Windows(end product price not Windows licensing price... an equally absurd proposition given that MS doesn't even profit on most of the cost of a PC since they aren't the only company contributing), and assuming a $500 PC with royalties coming out to $12.50 per unit. One week later they cut that by a factor of 22 to $0.50 per unit. They had been insisting that the previous royalty was FRAND(Fair, Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory), something required of all Standard-Essential Patents(SEP). Now, they cut that by a factor of 22? If your previous price was FRAND, how the hell can you cut it by such a massive amount? Furthermore, even with the cuts, Motorola is still asking for several hundred times more than what would be considered the FRAND price on the patents... They basically asked for so much intitially that they can cut what they are asking by a factor of 100 and still end up getting payed way more than they should...

For MS, it is cheaper to let this drag on for years, go to trial then be told that they need to pay a royalty that a jury or judge decides(which will be at least a factor of 200 times less than what Motorola is asking). And injunction is never going to be granted or approved... It is just kind of ridiculous.

I would lietraly die with laughter. That being said, OH NOES LESS COMPETEITON LEADS TO COMPLACENT LAZY DEVELOPERS!!!!!. oh wait, there already complacent and lazy.

[QUOTE="Slashless"]

Really doubt this will pull through. But yeah only idiots would believe this to be a "good" thing.T-Aldous

Well there are sure a lot of idiots on here thinking it would be good. Its pretty sad.

Then they aren't true gamers in the first place.

If they want to put pressure on MS, they need to pressure the ITC to ban sales of Windows 7 in the U.S. Now that will have them going crazy.

Their royalty fees don't seem like much, but that's a lot of cash to throw out there at once, and it's cash MS likely doesn't have. This isn't Apple we are talking about here.

If they want to put pressure on MS, they need to pressure the ITC to ban sales of Windows 7 in the U.S. Now that will have them going crazy.

Their royalty fees don't seem like much, but that's a lot of cash to throw out there at once, and it's cash MS likely doesn't have. This isn't Apple we are talking about here.

Pug-Nasty

If they do that, then what in the world are we going to use for computers? Not to mention that you'll be having a lot of angry consumers.

Man, this would be a great loss to video games if this were to pull through.

verbtex

In what way? MS hasn't added much to video gaming, it is just a multiplat machine at the moment.

[QUOTE="verbtex"]

Man, this would be a great loss to video games if this were to pull through.

tenaka2

In what way? MS hasn't added much to video gaming, it is just a multiplat machine at the moment.

They have helped out the indie market tremendously on consoles. Indie developers are now able to reach a new audience that they weren't before, they also helped pave the way for online gaming on consoles. Lately, they haven't done much I will give you that... but late last gen and early this gen they did a lot I think.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="verbtex"]

Man, this would be a great loss to video games if this were to pull through.

spinecaton

In what way? MS hasn't added much to video gaming, it is just a multiplat machine at the moment.

They have helped out the indie market tremendously on consoles. Indie developers are now able to reach a new audience that they weren't before, they also helped pave the way for online gaming on consoles. Lately, they haven't done much I will give you that... but late last gen and early this gen they did a lot I think.

Yet Developers that made games like Cthulu Saves the World/Breath of Death VII and Super Meat Boy would tell you they got more profits and sales from PC than on Xbox 360.

ban this disease to gaming.

[QUOTE="spinecaton"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

In what way? MS hasn't added much to video gaming, it is just a multiplat machine at the moment.

LegatoSkyheart

They have helped out the indie market tremendously on consoles. Indie developers are now able to reach a new audience that they weren't before, they also helped pave the way for online gaming on consoles. Lately, they haven't done much I will give you that... but late last gen and early this gen they did a lot I think.

Yet Developers that made games like Cthulu Saves the World/Breath of Death VII and Super Meat Boy would tell you they got more profits and sales from PC than on Xbox 360.

I said nothing about sales, I said getting to a new market that they weren't able to get to before. PC has a much larger audience than xbox 360 so that would make sense that they were to able to make more profit from PC. PC has also been the best place to get indie games.

lol @ cows thinking this will get them out of last place.

It ain't happening.

lol @ cows thinking this will get them out of last place.

It ain't happening.

waltefmoney

lol @ lems being so proud of second last.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

lol @ cows thinking this will get them out of last place.

It ain't happening.

tenaka2

lol @ lems being so proud of second last.

lol @ hermits being so proud of not showering.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

lol @ cows thinking this will get them out of last place.

It ain't happening.

waltefmoney

lol @ lems being so proud of second last.

lol @ hermits being so proud of not showering.

lol @ not showering, I shower every single Sunday!

lol @ not showering, I shower every single Sunday!

tenaka2

DOMINATION CONTINUATION

Where are all the "x360 is ddoomed" threads when you need them? ^^ Anyway, this could turn out good as it might force them to finally release a next gen system with full BC

MS will either pony up the cash or XBLoop is closer than we think.

i think tthis will affect android device as well not just microsoft products according to ign(via reuters)

What this boils down to is that neither side is willing to compromise. For now, the International Trade Commission has recommended an import ban on all Android devices usingActiveSync and all Xbox 360 consoles until the patent issues are settled. If settlements continue to be rejected, the ITC will declare its verdict to the White House, at which point the office of the President will have 60 days to finalize the decision.

ign

so in the end both motorala(or google since its seems like they are involve) and microsoft could lose

Sony and Vita in trouble:

'How could anyone want a console to fail or a company to go under?'

MS and the 360 in trouble:

'DIE DIE DIE'

lol at SWs :P

[QUOTE="Obviously_Right"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] Patent trolling.? Yeah lets make a reform of patent laws so that big guys like MS could breach any patent they like and use and funny excuse to justify not having the law enforce on them,you know MS ban your 360 if you modify it right.? Because modify hardware allow copy of games to be played,so MS protects is rights to the software and hardware.KingsMessenger

Its funny...even if the 360 gets banned, the PS3 still won't catch up, it'll still be dead last with the worst sales, the least games and the most broken promises.

It is a patent on H.264... Nearly all video content is encoded with H.264 at some level. Charging 2.25% of all profits on the Xbox 360 for tiny piece of a video codec(Motorola's patents aren't even really the full scope of what is necessary to actually use H.264... MPEG LA has those patents, and charges a fraction of a cent per unit per patent)is absolutely insane, which is what MS has been arguing all along. Same with 50 cents per copy of Windows. Motorola just happens to have a patent related to the video codec(and they are one of nearly 40 different companies with similar patents and one of the LEAST significant of the companies holding H.264 patent) and they have decided to partake in the patent trolling circle jerk that is going on within the tech industry.

Motorola was asking for almost a thousand times more than the "cap" on the MPEG LA patent pool(the cap is $6.5 million). Consider this... MPEG LA hold 60% of all patents related to H.264. They ask for pennies per unit and cap the royalty at $6.5 million per year. Motorola has approximately 6% of the patents related to H.264. They were asking for $4 billion annually. I will grant that Motorola's patents may be more important to playing internet video, but that does not make the asking price any less absurd. Also consider that last week they were asking 2.25% per PC using Windows(end product price not Windows licensing price... an equally absurd proposition given that MS doesn't even profit on most of the cost of a PC since they aren't the only company contributing), and assuming a $500 PC with royalties coming out to $12.50 per unit. One week later they cut that by a factor of 22 to $0.50 per unit. They had been insisting that the previous royalty was FRAND(Fair, Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory), something required of all Standard-Essential Patents(SEP). Now, they cut that by a factor of 22? If your previous price was FRAND, how the hell can you cut it by such a massive amount? Furthermore, even with the cuts, Motorola is still asking for several hundred times more than what would be considered the FRAND price on the patents... They basically asked for so much intitially that they can cut what they are asking by a factor of 100 and still end up getting payed way more than they should...

For MS, it is cheaper to let this drag on for years, go to trial then be told that they need to pay a royalty that a jury or judge decides(which will be at least a factor of 200 times less than what Motorola is asking). And injunction is never going to be granted or approved... It is just kind of ridiculous.

Thanks for explaining, no one has bothered.

Can't they temporally use WMV or something, until they find a solution?

US House of Representatives member Darrell Issa (R-CA) told the ITC in his own letter, "An exclusion order would eliminate the only U.S. based videogame console from a market."ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]US House of Representatives member Darrell Issa (R-CA) told the ITC in his own letter, "An exclusion order would eliminate the only U.S. based videogame console from a market."tormentos

[QUOTE="inb4uall"]

We aren't supposed to hope people lose jobs so I won't but I sure aas hell don't feel sorry for M$ they're greedy. Not saying other companies aren't but M$ is big time.

verbtex

I don't think people will lose their jobs, Microsoft will just push out their next console a little sooner and be more mindful of their patents.

[QUOTE="verbtex"]

[QUOTE="inb4uall"]

We aren't supposed to hope people lose jobs so I won't but I sure aas hell don't feel sorry for M$ they're greedy. Not saying other companies aren't but M$ is big time.

Animal-Mother

I don't think people will lose their jobs, Microsoft will just push out their next console a little sooner and be more mindful of their patents.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="verbtex"]

Man, this would be a great loss to video games if this were to pull through.

spinecaton

In what way? MS hasn't added much to video gaming, it is just a multiplat machine at the moment.

They have helped out the indie market tremendously on consoles. Indie developers are now able to reach a new audience that they weren't before, they also helped pave the way for online gaming on consoles. Lately, they haven't done much I will give you that... but late last gen and early this gen they did a lot I think.

Sony and Vita in trouble:

'How could anyone want a console to fail or a company to go under?'

MS and the 360 in trouble:

'DIE DIE DIE'

lol at SWs :P

HalcyonScarlet