Xbox live is the biggest scam right now is gaming - yes or no?

Im not gonna make a poll about it because it's more of a debate but cmon 360 fanboys!!!! you should really not put up with it I just cant believe you guys actually defend it

YOUR PAYING TO PLAY PEER TO PEER!!!!!! it's not deticated servers it's PEER TO PEER and why on earth should you have to pay for that???? this is the biggest scam in gaming right now by a mile Stop defending it 360 fans start a massive online protest/poll and send this to microsoft it wont make a dent but atleast it will start getting the internet to talk about it.

First off, I don't think Live is a scam. It delivers on many fronts.

Second, the big issue is really with what is free and what is charged. If MS flipped the situation where you'd have to pay for early demos, exclusive news, etc. and made online play free, a lot of people would be a lot more happy. It is lame that they charge for the main reason people want online connections for. But a scam it is not. I don't think.

** and to the 360 owners about to come in here and say that Live is not peer-to-peer; It is. Yes, you have dedicated servers for mics and such, but the bulk of the weight of online play is carried by the users. It's like selling me a car with a bad engine but telling me the radio is awesome. The main issue people have with online play is with lag and other issues resulting from bad connections from the users.

there was a big discussion about the term peer too peer and what not.

regardless, Yes, it is the biggest scam in gaming atm.

Microsoft would never make you pay for anything else other than playing online, because demos might make you want to buy a game which in turns makes them money, and you have access to all DLC why? because it can make microsoft money, oh boy you can rent movies and buy movies for free? ahhhhh that makes microsoft money the only thing where they shouldnt make money (playing peer to peer) well nope they make you pay for something that should be free, if they had deticated servers for all games then yes sure charge some money, but there is no reason at all to charge people for playing peer to peer

The money they make should be from DLC and buying movies and all that but certainly not charge people to play peer to peer it's amazing people defend it, 360 fans should be pissed!!!

First off, I don't think Live is a scam. It delivers on many fronts.

Second, the big issue is really with what is free and what is charged. If MS flipped the situation where you'd have to pay for early demos, exclusive news, etc. and made online play free, a lot of people would be a lot more happy. It is lame that they charge for the main reason people want online connections for. But a scam it is not. I don't think.

** and to the 360 owners about to come in here and say that Live is not peer-to-peer; It is. Yes, you have dedicated servers for mics and such, but the bulk of the weight of online play is carried by the users. It's like selling me a car with a bad engine but telling me the radio is awesome. The main issue people have with online play is with lag and other issues resulting from bad connections from the users.

The_Crucible

Yes.

And the problem is they can get away with it as everyone (almost) wants to play online.

They should make online gaming free then charge for the other stuff but we know no one would pay for it.

gaming is full of scams. why did konami split the MGS4 games into 2? why do developers charge for DLC? why do developers release awful movie tie-ins. to make money!

personally I don't mindpaying £40 for a years subscription. after all I was sold the console at a loss to Microsoft. and they need to make their money somewhere else. I'd rather pay £40 for that than 'Haze' (cheap shot?) and kill my friends in Liberty City or 14 year old Americans in Halo 3. it is easy to use and fun. if you don't want to pay less that £1 a week (or whatever it is in America, cheaper no doubt) to play online, then don't. And get back in your box.

gaming is full of scams. why did konami split the MGS4 games into 2? why do developers charge for DLC? why do developers release awful movie tie-ins. to make money!

personally I don't mindpaying £40 for a years subscription. after all I was sold the console at a loss to Microsoft. and they need to make their money somewhere else. I'd rather pay £40 for that than 'Haze' (cheap shot?) and kill my friends in Liberty City or 14 year old Americans in Halo 3. it is easy to use and fun. if you don't want to pay less that £1 a week (or whatever it is in America, cheaper no doubt) to play online, then don't. And get back in your box.

ralphy12345

What? Did I miss something, I only bought the one game.

ironically my subscription ended today and i am sort of annoyed at having to buy some more. but 99.9% of the time you are satisfied at having a kickass online service. the only time when paying for XBL seems annoying is when you don't have it actually.crunchUK

It's a out of sight, out of mind thing. If you had to pay two cents every time you logged on, or a dollar because you haven't been on-line for a wile, you would notice.

It must really stump you how millions of gamers renue their subscriptions every year.....

maybe cause they are satisfied with it?

[QUOTE="crunchUK"]ironically my subscription ended today and i am sort of annoyed at having to buy some more. but 99.9% of the time you are satisfied at having a kickass online service. the only time when paying for XBL seems annoying is when you don't have it actually.FragTycoon

It's a out of sight, out of mind thing. If you had to pay two cents every time you logged on, or a dollar because you haven't been on-line for a wile, you would notice.

that's what i meant. when you have got it you don't think *i payed £40 for THIS??!?* you onlythink that when it's not there. it's not a big deal at all.

It is a huge ripoff, yes.

Along the lines of Bottled Water.

The fact that MS has you pay them for a year in order to get full functionality of a game you already purchased is a scam.

In closing XBLG is a ripoff and a scam.

It must really stump you how millions of gamers renue their subscriptions every year.....

maybe cause they are satisfied with it?

-GhostMLD-

They don't have a choice. Xboxlive rent is a genius idea.

Microsoft make you buy a defective piece of hardware to begin with then make you pay a yearly rent on it for as long as you own it.

[QUOTE="ralphy12345"]

gaming is full of scams. why did konami split the MGS4 games into 2? why do developers charge for DLC? why do developers release awful movie tie-ins. to make money!

personally I don't mindpaying £40 for a years subscription. after all I was sold the console at a loss to Microsoft. and they need to make their money somewhere else. I'd rather pay £40 for that than 'Haze' (cheap shot?) and kill my friends in Liberty City or 14 year old Americans in Halo 3. it is easy to use and fun. if you don't want to pay less that £1 a week (or whatever it is in America, cheaper no doubt) to play online, then don't. And get back in your box.

-Anton-

What? Did I miss something, I only bought the one game.

I missed that as well... Elaborate?

It must really stump you how millions of gamers renue their subscriptions every year.....

maybe cause they are satisfied with it?

-GhostMLD-

do they have a option if they want to play online with the 360?

If silver had basic online capability I am positive that a large percentage would not renew.

[QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

[QUOTE="crunchUK"]ironically my subscription ended today and i am sort of annoyed at having to buy some more. but 99.9% of the time you are satisfied at having a kickass online service. the only time when paying for XBL seems annoying is when you don't have it actually.crunchUK

It's a out of sight, out of mind thing. If you had to pay two cents every time you logged on, or a dollar because you haven't been on-line for a wile, you would notice.

that's what i meant. when you have got it you don't think *i payed £40 for THIS??!?* you onlythink that when it's not there. it's not a big deal at all.

Instead im paying $99AUD to be allowed to play Xbox games I already own online.

Yes its the best console online service, no it isnt a justification of getting your playerbase to pay, to be allowed to use the functionality of a game.

And when people say "well it isnt alot", no it is alot. If had to choose between buying The Witcher and Sins of a Solar Empire, two games that I will get countless hours out of playing, or paying to be allowed to play Xbox games I already own online for a year - well then yes it is alot, isnt it. Its far too much, considering im paying for just access.

In Europe live is 70 euro now that's a rip off that's like $120 a year no wonder Microsoft is losing heremicky4889

It costs 50euro where I live

Biggest scam? :lol: Hardly. XBL offers more than P2P. You should get out more if this is the biggest "scam" you have encountered.dhjohns

it was a 'big scam' to begin with, im sure MS was quite aware of it from the beginning.

[QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

It must really stump you how millions of gamers renue their subscriptions every year.....

maybe cause they are satisfied with it?

FragTycoon

do they have a option if they want to play online with the 360?

If silver had basic online capability I am positive that a large percentage would not renew.

[QUOTE="crunchUK"][QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

[QUOTE="crunchUK"]ironically my subscription ended today and i am sort of annoyed at having to buy some more. but 99.9% of the time you are satisfied at having a kickass online service. the only time when paying for XBL seems annoying is when you don't have it actually.skrat_01

It's a out of sight, out of mind thing. If you had to pay two cents every time you logged on, or a dollar because you haven't been on-line for a wile, you would notice.

that's what i meant. when you have got it you don't think *i payed £40 for THIS??!?* you onlythink that when it's not there. it's not a big deal at all.

i agree. it's painful, but my point is when you HAVE it you don't think twice about what you paid for it. also they have 1 month and 3 month which are a great deal more expensive overall than a yearly simply because that way it doesn't seem like a brand new release game and you just pay more for XBL in the end because it's all about IN THE MOMENT.

[QUOTE="micky4889"]In Europe live is 70 euro now that's a rip off that's like $120 a year no wonder Microsoft is losing herekillerfist

It costs 50euro where I live

what part are you from ? im from ireland btw

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]Biggest scam? :lol: Hardly. XBL offers more than P2P. You should get out more if this is the biggest "scam" you have encountered.skrat_01

it was a 'big scam' to begin with, im sure MS was quite aware of it from the beginning.

No it isn't. I am not going to go through the reasons that I and others enjoy XBL. I am not going to go over the econoomics behind it either. Why? These threads are old and stale. Look uo any old thread and you will find reasons there. It is a matter of perspective. You don't like it? Fine, don't get it. But it is hardly a scam.

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="micky4889"]In Europe live is 70 euro now that's a rip off that's like $120 a year no wonder Microsoft is losing heremicky4889

It costs 50euro where I live

what part are you from ? im from ireland btw

i agree. it's painful, but my point is when you HAVE it you don't think twice about what you paid for it. also they have 1 month and 3 month which are a great deal more expensive overall than a yearly simply because that way it doesn't seem like a brand new release game and you just pay more for XBL in the end because it's all about IN THE MOMENT.

crunchUK

Ive been gaming online for ages now, and have many great 'moments' and im safisfied to know that to have these 'moments' I just payed the developers for their game, to get acess to the features they wanted to experience these gaming 'moments'.

Instead MS decides that when I spend $110AUD on Halo 3, I cant get to use its highly vaunted online multiplayer features until I pay an extra $99AUD to be allowed to do so, and all the other XBL games I dont play online for a year.

Not even fun fun fun on XBL - and beleive me ive had loads of fun playing 360 games online, can take away from my dissatisfaction with being blatantly ripped off.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]Biggest scam? :lol: Hardly. XBL offers more than P2P. You should get out more if this is the biggest "scam" you have encountered.dhjohns

it was a 'big scam' to begin with, im sure MS was quite aware of it from the beginning.

No it isn't. I am not going to go through the reasons that I and others enjoy XBL. I am not going to go over the econoomics behind it either. Why? These threads are old and stale. Look uo any old thread and you will find reasons there. It is a matter of perspective. You don't like it? Fine, don't get it. But it is hardly a scam.

To me it's like selling someone a console but then telling them they have no controller unless they pay a yearly fee. The whole purpose of the console is for people to play games, yet, they are charged for using what they bought the system for. People buy a 360, for the most part, because of the popularity of XBL, and then they're charged to use it.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]Biggest scam? :lol: Hardly. XBL offers more than P2P. You should get out more if this is the biggest "scam" you have encountered.dhjohns

it was a 'big scam' to begin with, im sure MS was quite aware of it from the beginning.

No it isn't. I am not going to go through the reasons that I and others enjoy XBL. I am not going to go over the econoomics behind it either. Why? These threads are old and stale. Look uo any old thread and you will find reasons there. It is a matter of perspective. You don't like it? Fine, don't get it. But it is hardly a scam.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a *(edited) complete ripoff?

I pay to use the most standardized and integrated online experience on consoles. All my games are Live enabled, my friends list is completely unified, the Live experience is simple and intuitive, and its streamlined and clean.

That is why I pay the fee. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to pay for it.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]Biggest scam? :lol: Hardly. XBL offers more than P2P. You should get out more if this is the biggest "scam" you have encountered.skrat_01

it was a 'big scam' to begin with, im sure MS was quite aware of it from the beginning.

No it isn't. I am not going to go through the reasons that I and others enjoy XBL. I am not going to go over the econoomics behind it either. Why? These threads are old and stale. Look uo any old thread and you will find reasons there. It is a matter of perspective. You don't like it? Fine, don't get it. But it is hardly a scam.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

it's legal :P

it's legal :P

crunchUK

Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

skrat_01

Because its not. There is absolutely no fraud or deception occurring. You know exactly what you are going to get when you pay for Live, and you know what to expect if you do not choose to buy Live.

There is no way it falls under scam. You could say its not worth the price, but that is hardly a scam, or every Apple product would be a scam.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

SpruceCaboose

Because its not. There is absolutely no fraud or deception occurring. You know exactly what you are going to get when you pay for Live, and you know what to expect if you do not choose to buy Live.

There is no way it falls under scam. You could say its not worth the price, but that is hardly a scam, or every Apple product would be a scam.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

skrat_01

Because its not. There is absolutely no fraud or deception occurring. You know exactly what you are going to get when you pay for Live, and you know what to expect if you do not choose to buy Live.

There is no way it falls under scam. You could say its not worth the price, but that is hardly a scam, or every Apple product would be a scam.

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

Don't tell MS but I would pay even more then the .13 cents per day b/c I just love XBL and all the content, hundreds of free XBLA & 360 game demos & trailers with Inside Xbox interviews and diaries and all sorts of game related material kept fresh daily, all delivered seamlessly with movies & TV shows on demand in HD and the best on-line gaming, pioneering the way consoles should do on-line with all the gamer tag & achievements integrated through out the whole community.

So if .13 cents a day for so much is the biggest scam you have encountered in life - consider yourself very lucky. ;)

PS: Don't say we could all get Silver for free and still get everything but on-line P2P gaming b/c if everyone did that; XBL would truly go down hill fast and MS would not spend much time nor effort b/c it wouldn't make any dollars & Cents. :P

are you joking?

every online mode of console game need server.

for example, before gta4 lauch, microsoft have to add more servers to prepare for a larger spike more than halo3 and cod4.

http://kotaku.com/383885/xbox-live-preps-for-gta-iv-server-riot?cpage=2

on the other hand, sony use another strategy, sony recommand most 3rd party use their own server , or sony can provide them but with some charge. like ps3 initialD use sega' own server, but don't provide service outside of japan. gamespy in charge of ps3 gta4 online service.

microsoft charge consumer pay for that server cost while sony charge 3rd party.

of course , you can debate which strategy is better, consumers pay for a unified online service or pay seperately for different service some of them already included in your game price.

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

SpruceCaboose

xblive all use peer to peer , no server at all.

are you joking?

every online mode of console game need server.

for example, before gta4 lauch, microsoft have to add more servers to prepare for a larger spike more than halo3 and cod4.

http://kotaku.com/383885/xbox-live-preps-for-gta-iv-server-riot?cpage=2

on the other hand, sony use another strategy, sony recommand most 3rd party use their own server , or sony can provide them but with some charge. like ps3 initialD use sega' own server, but don't provide service outside of japan. gamespy in charge of ps3 gta4 online service.

microsoft charge consumer pay for that server cost while sony charge 3rd party.

of course , you can debate which strategy is better, consumers pay for a unified online service or pay seperately for different service some of them already included in your game price.

dd2005nian

well as long as i dont have to pay for it im happy

Im not gonna make a poll about it because it's more of a debate but cmon 360 fanboys!!!! you should really not put up with it I just cant believe you guys actually defend it

YOUR PAYING TO PLAY PEER TO PEER!!!!!! it's not deticated servers it's PEER TO PEER and why on earth should you have to pay for that???? this is the biggest scam in gaming right now by a mile Stop defending it 360 fans start a massive online protest/poll and send this to microsoft it wont make a dent but atleast it will start getting the internet to talk about it.

bigLLL

Pay attention to the "mostly' part. Not all games are peer to peer. Chromehounds wasn't, for instance.

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

SpruceCaboose

The features are standard they come with the XBL interface, and can be acessed via Silver. its like Microsoft charging you extra to use the gui in windows and features like messenger.

As I said, Live is a damn good interface (though it does have its issues) and the best console one for that matter.
Problem is when you spend your money on that gold sub, all you are getting is acess to play games you alreayd paid for online for 12 months.

Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a *(edited) complete ripoff?

skrat_01

First off, regardless of what I say, you will think it is a scam. People have different perspectives and this is yours. As I stated, these threads, in one form or the other, populate SW on a daily basis.

I will quickly sketch out my brief thoughts. PC is not a fair comparison. PC gaming has been using the internet since the dawn of time (not really- you get my point though). This is truly the upside of PC gaming (I include mods with this as well). The first console gaming online was the Sega Genesis (I could be wrong, but I think this is right). I still remember playing NHL '95. Pat Lafontaine FTW!! I use this example to demonstrate that consoles have lagged far behind and really should be in a separate category concerning online gaming.

Now comes XBL. I have been a member since day 1. I have seen it go through many changes. For me, it is worth it. I use it to talk to my friends in Europe and Asia and I am online everyday. Could I use skype or something similar? Probably, but I enjoy the fact I can play games and talk to friends. I love the community aspect and XBL is head and shoulders above PSN or the Wii. Sony is struggling with PSN because it is pretty hard to manage online gaming for a console. MS is a software company and has more experience here (obviously not a hardware company :P). I think posters here underestimate the skills required to maintain XBL.

The previous paragraph is random thoughts and reasons on why I love XBL and don't think it is a scam. Would I like for it to be free? Yes, but I am comfortable spending one dollar a week (roughly) to enjoy XBL.

I pay to use the most standardized and integrated online experience on consoles. All my games are Live enabled, my friends list is completely unified, the Live experience is simple and intuitive, and its streamlined and clean.

That is why I pay the fee. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to pay for it.

SpruceCaboose

I rambled the whole time (no coffee yet) and Spruce said it nice and sweet. There you go. :D

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

The_Crucible

And it will be until Sony or Nintendo make a better interface.