Xbox live is the biggest scam right now is gaming - yes or no?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

The_Crucible

i see. i suppose your religion invloves 2.40 updates??

I'm willing to pay if I find value in what I'm paying for. I find value in having platform-wide standards like voice comms in all games. I find value in having a functional cross-game invite system. I like that XBL is a closed network and that MS aggressively checks for modded consoles. I like MS seems the most tightly connected to its community with dedicated personnel like Major Nelson, Trixie and their various community managers. I really appreciate their Ambassador and Community Developer programs. I've even participated in some of their Community Calendar events.

So yeah... I don't mind paying for it because they're services that I use. If PSN offered those things I would expect a response from MS. Maybe a price drop for XBL. Maybe the addition of even more features. Who knows? All I do know is that I like what I get so far from XBL.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

SpruceCaboose

Because its not. There is absolutely no fraud or deception occurring. You know exactly what you are going to get when you pay for Live, and you know what to expect if you do not choose to buy Live.

There is no way it falls under scam. You could say its not worth the price, but that is hardly a scam, or every Apple product would be a scam.

I disagree.

I believe that there is deception in what they say XBL fees are used for and what services are provided.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

skrat_01

The features are standard they come with the XBL interface, and can be acessed via Silver. its like Microsoft charging you extra to use the gui in windows and features like messenger.

As I said, Live is a damn good interface (though it does have its issues) and the best console one for that matter.
Problem is when you spend your money on that gold sub, all you are getting is acess to play games you alreayd paid for online for 12 months.

Except those features gain a lot more utility when you can use them in conjunction with online play.

Is the pricing for XBL Gold ideal? Of course not. I'd love if it were free. But I still feel like it's worthwhile.

First off, regardless of what I say, you will think it is a scam. People have different perspectives and this is yours. As I stated, these threads, in one form or the other, populate SW on a daily basis.

I will quickly sketch out my brief thoughts. PC is not a fair comparison. PC gaming has been using the internet since the dawn of time (not really- you get my point though). This is truly the upside of PC gaming (I include mods with this as well). The first console gaming online was the Sega Genesis (I could be wrong, but I think this is right). I still remember playing NHL '95. Pat Lafontaine FTW!! I use this example to demonstrate that consoles have lagged far behind and really should be in a separate category concerning online gaming.

Now comes XBL. I have been a member since day 1. I have seen it go through many changes. For me, it is worth it. I use it to talk to my friends in Europe and Asia and I am online everyday. Could I use skype or something similar? Probably, but I enjoy the fact I can play games and talk to friends. I love the community aspect and XBL is head and shoulders above PSN or the Wii. Sony is struggling with PSN because it is pretty hard to manage online gaming for a console. MS is a software company and has more experience here (obviously not a hardware company :P). I think posters here underestimate the skills required to maintain XBL.

The previous paragraph is random thoughts and reasons on why I love XBL and don't think it is a scam. Would I like for it to be free? Yes, but I am comfortable spending one dollar a week (roughly) to enjoy XBL.

dhjohns

Why not compare it to PC online gaming? Subscription services on PC have tried (and tried again recently) and failed. I have been playing PC games online for over a decade, and im quite sure I can compare XBL to it. Not to mention this is system wars.

The big problem here is all that stuff you say is a benifit of live - is true, but its its not a benifit of live gold.Think about it. What do you put your money down for when your sub has expired. You can talk to all your friends and go to the marketplace ect. on silver just fine, these are mandatory online features.
The problem is Live Gold thats what is a ripoff (not a scam, I have been corrected on that).
when you put down that money for Gold you are doing so to play games you already own online for a year. That is what irritates me.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

FragTycoon

Because its not. There is absolutely no fraud or deception occurring. You know exactly what you are going to get when you pay for Live, and you know what to expect if you do not choose to buy Live.

There is no way it falls under scam. You could say its not worth the price, but that is hardly a scam, or every Apple product would be a scam.

I disagree.

I believe that there is deception in what they say XBL fees are used for and what services are provided.

What deception? And be specific, don't throw out vague assertions, because there is no deception. You sir are grasping for straws.

[QUOTE="dd2005nian"]xblive all use peer to peer , no server at all.

are you joking?

every online mode of console game need server.

for example, before gta4 lauch, microsoft have to add more servers to prepare for a larger spike more than halo3 and cod4.

http://kotaku.com/383885/xbox-live-preps-for-gta-iv-server-riot?cpage=2

on the other hand, sony use another strategy, sony recommand most 3rd party use their own server , or sony can provide them but with some charge. like ps3 initialD use sega' own server, but don't provide service outside of japan. gamespy in charge of ps3 gta4 online service.

microsoft charge consumer pay for that server cost while sony charge 3rd party.

of course , you can debate which strategy is better, consumers pay for a unified online service or pay seperately for different service some of them already included in your game price.

micky4889

well as long as i dont have to pay for it im happy

but there is a problem, some company can't afford server cost, if their game didn't sell well , they would shut down the online service at any time.

[QUOTE="The_Crucible"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Ok.

I would love for it to be free, but to me, its features and integration make it worth the fee ATM, and why I've been on Live the last 4 years.

crunchUK

i see. i suppose your religion invloves 2.40 updates??

Except those features gain a lot more utility when you can use them in conjunction with online play.

Is the pricing for XBL Gold ideal? Of course not. I'd love if it were free. But I still feel like it's worthwhile.

sonicmj1

Give them features that are relativley usesless until you pay more for a year. That is a marketing strategy for XBLG.

Why not compare it to PC online gaming? Subscription services on PC have tried (and tried again recently) and failed. I have been playing PC games online for over a decade, and im quite sure I can compare XBL to it. Not to mention this is system wars.

The big problem here is all that stuff you say is a benifit of live - is true, but its its not a benifit of live gold.Think about it. What do you put your money down for when your sub has expired. You can talk to all your friends and go to the marketplace ect. on silver just fine, these are mandatory online features.
The problem is Live Gold thats what is a ripoff (not a scam, I have been corrected on that).
when you put down that money for Gold you are doing so to play games you already own online for a year. That is what irritates me.

skrat_01

I already explained why you can't compare it to PC, imo. It isn't a SW thing, it is more about practicality. PC and consoles are really apples and oranges for the most part. Sorry that something as trivial as an online service irritates you. Maybe if you close your eyes you can pretend it doesn't exist? Not sure how else to help because XBL isn't going anywhere. :P

yes

I heard some racist americans on it last night. It's not even that good

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Why not compare it to PC online gaming? Subscription services on PC have tried (and tried again recently) and failed. I have been playing PC games online for over a decade, and im quite sure I can compare XBL to it. Not to mention this is system wars.

The big problem here is all that stuff you say is a benifit of live - is true, but its its not a benifit of live gold.Think about it. What do you put your money down for when your sub has expired. You can talk to all your friends and go to the marketplace ect. on silver just fine, these are mandatory online features.
The problem is Live Gold thats what is a ripoff (not a scam, I have been corrected on that).
when you put down that money for Gold you are doing so to play games you already own online for a year. That is what irritates me.

dhjohns

I already explained why you can't compare it to PC, imo. It isn't a SW thing, it is more about practicality. PC and consoles are really apples and oranges for the most part. Sorry that something as trivial as an online service irritates you. Maybe if you close your eyes you can pretend it doesn't exist? Not sure how else to help because XBL isn't going anywhere.

And if I decided to pretend it didnt exist I wouldn't be debating it now, and I wouldent have paid for it because im ignoring a core part of my 'console gaming experience'.

so the reason xbox live charges is because it hasnt had it since the dawn of time? then why is m$ launching windows live? just like xbl but you can enjoy paying for things that were previously free.Warped_Creation

btw Mercs 2 in your PSN sig? As in you are 'playing' it like you are ProtoType? :shock:

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

Except those features gain a lot more utility when you can use them in conjunction with online play.

Is the pricing for XBL Gold ideal? Of course not. I'd love if it were free. But I still feel like it's worthwhile.

skrat_01

Give them features that are relativley usesless until you pay more for a year. That is a marketing strategy for XBLG.

Yes. That is a marketing strategy. Kind of like how Spore gives you a creature creator for free, but nothing to do with those creatures until you buy the game.

The stuff that comes with Silver certainly isn't useless on its own, especially the use of the marketplace. If you keep up with your friend's gamertags, being able to keep in touch with them and see what they're up to and chat with them over Xbox Live for free is nice. But a lot of the smooth functionality of the friends list and gamercards and voice chat and TrueSkill and such work at their best when you can game online, with your friends and with strangers.

I don't see what the problem is with that. As has been said before, there's no deception occurring.

Yes. That is a marketing strategy. Kind of like how Spore gives you a creature creator for free, but nothing to do with those creatures until you buy the game.

The stuff that comes with Silver certainly isn't useless on its own, especially the use of the marketplace. If you keep up with your friend's gamertags, being able to keep in touch with them and see what they're up to and chat with them over Xbox Live for free is nice. But a lot of the smooth functionality of the friends list and gamercards and voice chat and TrueSkill and such work at their best when you can game online, with your friends and with strangers.

I don't see what the problem is with that. As has been said before, there's no deception occurring.

sonicmj1

Although yes its not a scam indeed, incorrectly wording on my behalf - no deception occurring indeed. However it being a ripoff if a different story.

[QUOTE="micky4889"][QUOTE="dd2005nian"]xblive all use peer to peer , no server at all.

are you joking?

every online mode of console game need server.

for example, before gta4 lauch, microsoft have to add more servers to prepare for a larger spike more than halo3 and cod4.

http://kotaku.com/383885/xbox-live-preps-for-gta-iv-server-riot?cpage=2

on the other hand, sony use another strategy, sony recommand most 3rd party use their own server , or sony can provide them but with some charge. like ps3 initialD use sega' own server, but don't provide service outside of japan. gamespy in charge of ps3 gta4 online service.

microsoft charge consumer pay for that server cost while sony charge 3rd party.

of course , you can debate which strategy is better, consumers pay for a unified online service or pay seperately for different service some of them already included in your game price.

dd2005nian

well as long as i dont have to pay for it im happy

but there is a problem, some company can't afford server cost, if their game didn't sell well , they would shut down the online service at any time.

And just because you pay for live you think the servers will always be on lol

if there is not enough people playing the game 2 or 3 years down the road do you seriously think Microsoft wont shut them down lol

plus "some company can't afford server cost" then they use p2p like 99% of other 360 games

Im not gonna make a poll about it because it's more of a debate but cmon 360 fanboys!!!! you should really not put up with it I just cant believe you guys actually defend it

YOUR PAYING TO PLAY PEER TO PEER!!!!!! it's not deticated servers it's PEER TO PEER and why on earth should you have to pay for that???? this is the biggest scam in gaming right now by a mile Stop defending it 360 fans start a massive online protest/poll and send this to microsoft it wont make a dent but atleast it will start getting the internet to talk about it.

bigLLL

hmmm its not a debate when you dont have a poll and the first words out of your mouth are an attack on us defending it.

2nd its not peer to peer, its user hosting peer to peer would be peer to peer you cant really have multiple connections on a peer to peer, even on peer to peer services like torrent your having completely different connections with different people.

3rd the service is worthwhile, sorry but PSN Is not up to par no matter what any one says, sry dedicated servers do not gurantee no lag, I've been on many user hosted servers where if the host has a great connection and every one else has the same connections cable or dsl then there is next to no lag, just like on a dedicated server if the user playing has a crap connection then there will be lag for the other users and the user playing.

[QUOTE="FragTycoon"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]Why isnt it a scam? Please elaborate.

I buy Sins of a Solar Empire from EB, I spend $50AUD. I play it for 10 hours online over the following week.

I buy Halo 3 for $110AUD. I cannot play it online until I spend an extra $99AUD to be allowed to play it and my XBox games online for a year

Prove otherwise why that isnt a scam?

dhjohns

Because its not. There is absolutely no fraud or deception occurring. You know exactly what you are going to get when you pay for Live, and you know what to expect if you do not choose to buy Live.

There is no way it falls under scam. You could say its not worth the price, but that is hardly a scam, or every Apple product would be a scam.

I disagree.

I believe that there is deception in what they say XBL fees are used for and what services are provided.

What deception? And be specific, don't throw out vague assertions, because there is no deception. You sir are grasping for straws.

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

Gamestop's trade-in policy is the biggest scam in gaming. "We'll give you $5 for that game and sell it for $55. Bend over, broke-ass... you don't have any other choice!" donalbane

Buy Army of Two for $55-60aud, trade it many months later for $40.

Or my original XBox. $70aud from Cash Converters (pawn shop chain) $120aud at EB. Muahahahaha.

Though when I asked about the trade in value of PGR3 - $1aud. :|

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

FragTycoon

lets see what does the pay go into? xbox live techs, xbox live account servers military grade 128bit encrypted to protect peoples information, xbox live R&D.

That practicality is going to run out when another console catches up with features. Then it being a ripoff will be very apparent.

And if I decided to pretend it didnt exist I wouldn't be debating it now, and I wouldent have paid for it because im ignoring a core part of my 'console gaming experience'.

skrat_01

I'll just wait. :P Seriously though, I find it laughable that people think PSN will improve but XBL will remain stagnant.

[QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

WilliamRLBaker

lets see what does the pay go into? xbox live techs, xbox live account servers military grade 128bit encrypted to protect peoples information, xbox live R&D.

This is just normal stuff that doesent justify the price tag.

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

FragTycoon

So it is a deception because of where MS spends its revenue? :lol: You have a lot to learn about business. MS doesn't make promises about its revenue. I could care less where the revenue goes.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

That practicality is going to run out when another console catches up with features. Then it being a ripoff will be very apparent.

And if I decided to pretend it didnt exist I wouldn't be debating it now, and I wouldent have paid for it because im ignoring a core part of my 'console gaming experience'.

dhjohns

I'll just wait. :P Seriously though, I find it laughable that people think PSN will improve but XBL will remain stagnant.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

skrat_01

lets see what does the pay go into? xbox live techs, xbox live account servers military grade 128bit encrypted to protect peoples information, xbox live R&D.

This is just normal stuff that doesent justify the price tag.

In your opinion. You feel the need to debate every point here and congrats because you aren't being obnoxious. You really aren't but we are going in circles. BTW, all PSN v. XBL and the like threads devolve into this. I can't fault you for your opinion; however, just like posters here won't change your mind, you are unlikely to change ours. For mine and many other people's perspective one dollar a week is worth it.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

That practicality is going to run out when another console catches up with features. Then it being a ripoff will be very apparent.

And if I decided to pretend it didnt exist I wouldn't be debating it now, and I wouldent have paid for it because im ignoring a core part of my 'console gaming experience'.

skrat_01

I'll just wait. :P Seriously though, I find it laughable that people think PSN will improve but XBL will remain stagnant.

Sony won't catch up. No slight against Sony but MS knows software and have been doing this for a much longer period of time. MS is very aware of its product and the need to stay ahead of PSN features wise.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

skrat_01

lets see what does the pay go into? xbox live techs, xbox live account servers military grade 128bit encrypted to protect peoples information, xbox live R&D.

This is just normal stuff that doesent justify the price tag.

sry it more then justifies the price tag, im sry that you seem to think that because its regular stuff it doesn't cost alot of money, but in real life in this world every thing costs money.

its called PROFIT publically traded companies have one reason for being and thats PROFIT it is literally their legal binding law to make money, profit holders can actually SUE company CEOs...ect if they dont make enough profit.

But yeah in the end you may not think it justifies the price but who are you? do you control a multinational company with some of the most used software products on the planet? no you dont, so you really cant quote to me or say any thing that says you have the experience or knowledge of what exactly pays for the tech support, and the R&D, and the servers for account information and matchmaking...ect

50 dollars for 13 months is more then justifiable if you dont like it then dont pay it, its not a scam because others do pay it, its your opinion its a scam...ect but in the end its just an opinion and its an opinion not based upon real world facts.

PC online gaming? its free cause people are footing the bill, people run the servers or the company does, and what happens? those servers eventually shut down, the same with PSN just recently in like april something around 20-30 psn servers for psp and old ps2 games shut down some only lasting 2 years. this is what you get when the user has to foot the bill on every thing or the developer.

P.S: and any one with an server database...ect? you mean any one with 12 million users, and very sensitive information to protect? cause someone just running a database...ect is totally different then a multinational company with 12 or so million users with private and financial information to protect, and low latency for accounts so as for a seamless interaction between users...ect that is completely different then someone with some old database.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

I don't believe that all XBLG revenue goes toward making some server matrix of gaming that reducing lag to 5ms and is constantly improving user interface in order to have a better gaming experience (CoD4 example someone posted earlier). Other things are flat out lies, like dedicated HOST servers. Most (im not sure if all) DL content is available to a silver member.

Now let me ask you, what do you think the millions of accumulative revenue goes toward? or are you grasping at false justification?

dhjohns

lets see what does the pay go into? xbox live techs, xbox live account servers military grade 128bit encrypted to protect peoples information, xbox live R&D.

This is just normal stuffthat doesent justify the price tag.

In your opinion. You feel the need to debate every point here and congrats because you aren't being obnoxious. You really aren't but we are going in circles. BTW, all PSN v. XBL and the like threads devolve into this. I can't fault you for your opinion; however, just like posters here won't change your mind, you are unlikely to change ours. For mine and many other people's perspective one dollar a week is worth it.

[QUOTE="donalbane"]Gamestop's trade-in policy is the biggest scam in gaming. "We'll give you $5 for that game and sell it for $55. Bend over, broke-ass... you don't have any other choice!" skrat_01

Buy Army of Two for $55-60aud, trade it many months later for $40.

Or my original XBox. $70aud from Cash Converters (pawn shop chain) $120aud at EB. Muahahahaha.

Though when I asked about the trade in value of PGR3 - $1aud. :|

YOUR PAYING TO PLAY PEER TO PEER!!!!!! it's not deticated servers it's PEER TO PEER and why on earth should you have to pay for that????

bigLLL

Far from the biggest scam. One year of Live is $50. How much is one year of World of Warcraft? How many years of Live or games could you buy with that amount of money?

#1 = Gamestop. They are the most anti-gamer company ever. They rip off gamers with their $5 trade in for a game that they sell for $55. They rip off developers/publishers by suggesting you don't pay $4 extra and support the developer, spend $55 and give it all to us so we can fund and continue the raping of yourself and other gamers.

as said above the unified online the community all that is miles ahead of anything psn or wii online have, also as mentioned before older games where the main servers mightve been pulled ages ago can be left to run since theres money coming in to support them but the best part is and you may disagree and say we shouldnt be paying for this but because we pay for the servers it encourages smaller games to have online or games that ordinarily wouldnt have online do it ensures that we get better games essentially also i cant think of any off the top of my head but arent there some games on 360 that have online that there ps3 counterparts dont? maybe mistaken but i think i can remember it being saidEvangelian

1. I wouldnt say miles ahead since after the 2.40 update there will only be a small difference between them

2. Name one

3. No

Cows: dedicated servers gurantee no lag under all conditions sleet rain or snow.

In reality: dedicated servers only gurantee a good connection under some simple laws.

1. the server it self must sit on a fat pipe cable or higher
2. the users connecting must have good connections
3. distance matters people far away from each other will not have good connections even if all connects are the same speed and type...ect

Cows: peer hosted servers are all ways laggy

In reality: peer hoster servers actually can be just as lag free as dedicated but only under the right conditions

1. the host must sit on a fat pipe cable or higher
2. the users connecting must have good connections usually the same types
3. distance matters even if all connecting users have the same connections of high quality distance will cause problems

In your opinion. You feel the need to debate every point here and congrats because you aren't being obnoxious. You really aren't but we are going in circles. BTW, all PSN v. XBL and the like threads devolve into this. I can't fault you for your opinion; however, just like posters here won't change your mind, you are unlikely to change ours. For mine and many other people's perspective one dollar a week is worth it.

dhjohns

sry it more then justifies the price tag, im sry that you seem to think that because its regular stuff it doesn't cost alot of money, but in real life in this world every thing costs money.

its called PROFIT publically traded companies have one reason for being and thats PROFIT it is literally their legal binding law to make money, profit holders can actually SUE company CEOs...ect if they dont make enough profit.

But yeah in the end you may not think it justifies the price but who are you? do you control a multinational company with some of the most used software products on the planet? no you dont, so you really cant quote to me or say any thing that says you have the experience or knowledge of what exactly pays for the tech support, and the R&D, and the servers for account information and matchmaking...ect

50 dollars for 13 months is more then justifiable if you dont like it then dont pay it, its not a scam because others do pay it, its your opinion its a scam...ect but in the end its just an opinion and its an opinion not based upon real world facts.

PC online gaming? its free cause people are footing the bill, people run the servers or the company does, and what happens? those servers eventually shut down, the same with PSN just recently in like april something around 20-30 psn servers for psp and old ps2 games shut down some only lasting 2 years. this is what you get when the user has to foot the bill on every thing or the developer.

WilliamRLBaker

Windows Live acccounts, Steam, Xfire, GameSpy, GameSpot, Google Mail ect. ect. ect. ect. Wouldent it be wonderful being charged for every single serverice, just like you suggest the ones that are identical with XBL justify????

I know what justifies the price because I am an end user who is using their product. If it is a ripoff or I dislike it, I dont use it. As do other people. That is what makes their scheme fail. Hence why GFWL crashed as soon as it came out. It was totally snubbed for the obvious reasons.

Its not a scam because other pay for it???? Ok that is one of the most silly things i have heard. First off I say its a RIPOFF, its not fraud, its not a scam. Second of all because people are paying for it doesent STOP it from being a RIPOFF. Have you know IM SUBSCRIBED TO IT TOO.

And no you dont get PC online gaming at all. Its ISPs, developers and gamers themselves hosting servers. If a game has no servers whatsoever I can host a client, or my own dedicated server. Otherwise I can join a server hosted by an ISP, dev or anyone eleses. Why else are Games that are over a decade old STILL BEING PLAYED ONLINE.

XBL is purley client host based, snub a few games out there. PSN can be client hosted or dedicated hosted, depending on the game. PC online gaming is anything, it isnt 'limited' to the constraints of the console online gaming department, and never has been for well over a decade now. Why the hell do people keep thinking this? Developers update their games, and produce content to strengthen the communities, and broaden them, that is how its always been... Well had always been (still is on PC)

Scam:To defraud; swindle.

I thought that in order to be swindled people had to be completely unaware that they were being scammed.I'm sure the public knows there are other options and even within XBL there is a free option.

Would I prefer not to pay? Of course. But at the moment XBL is perfectly functional for me and I don't feel ripped off. People who want to whine about this have many other options. Feel free to use them.

After paying good money for a low end PC (360) and paying top dollar for the games then charging for a service is the worst thing in gaming. Then add the fact there being paid for ads from other companies, and this is no small amount of money. It cost a bundle to run these ads on these services. M$ is being paid by companies for these ads and then charging the consumer for the service is double dipping any way you want to look at it. Think about any tiny object in a game that has a name brand on it cost these companies a nice sum of money to have that product in that spot, the same way it works on TV programs and movies. This is how Sony is paying for PSN and web sites have been doing this for years to keep these web sites and search engines free to the consumer. jimm895

then what about cable and satalite? I pay about...mmmm 60 dollars a month for my cable and i still see ad's.

Oh and odd you mention ad's I've had xbox live since day 1 i was a beta tester, and on 360 the only ad's i consistantly see are for...360 products, demos, arcade games, lol and im sry but websites haven't been doing this to make it free for the consumer they've been doing it to make money.

Or do you think a site like gamespot which gets what? million visits a day? doesn't make profit. lol

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]

In your opinion. You feel the need to debate every point here and congrats because you aren't being obnoxious. You really aren't but we are going in circles. BTW, all PSN v. XBL and the like threads devolve into this. I can't fault you for your opinion; however, just like posters here won't change your mind, you are unlikely to change ours. For mine and many other people's perspective one dollar a week is worth it.

skrat_01

Horrible horrible analogies. Truly are. It is opinion whether or not XBL is worth it (essentially this is what we are debating). We are going in circles. We must agree to disagree.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="dhjohns"]

In your opinion. You feel the need to debate every point here and congrats because you aren't being obnoxious. You really aren't but we are going in circles. BTW, all PSN v. XBL and the like threads devolve into this. I can't fault you for your opinion; however, just like posters here won't change your mind, you are unlikely to change ours. For mine and many other people's perspective one dollar a week is worth it.

dhjohns

Horrible horrible analogies. Truly are. It is opinion whether or not XBL is worth it (essentially this is what we are debating). We are going in circles. We must agree to disagree.

However how would those analogies be horrible? my credit card details could be in my steam account with uber encrytping, as if my profile, game stats ect. And yet it is in my Live account and its suddenly part of a subscription service to keep the servers that stores such data operational and fully functioning?

Im not gonna make a poll about it because it's more of a debate but cmon 360 fanboys!!!! you should really not put up with it I just cant believe you guys actually defend it

YOUR PAYING TO PLAY PEER TO PEER!!!!!! it's not deticated servers it's PEER TO PEER and why on earth should you have to pay for that???? this is the biggest scam in gaming right now by a mile Stop defending it 360 fans start a massive online protest/poll and send this to microsoft it wont make a dent but atleast it will start getting the internet to talk about it.

bigLLL

I use to have a 360. P2P wasnt a big deal for me, its the fact that on the Dreamcast was running Windows CE with DirectX and online was free. Now that Microsoft have there own system they wanna charge you. For me its the princeablity of the whole thing. Out of 8 system (Dreamcast, PS2, PS3, Wii, DS, xbox, 360 and PSP) only Microsoft charge you anything. I personally have a problem with that, but hey, it's ya'll money, I would boycott.

Hey I have a simple solution for all of this. If you think it is a scam, then don't pay for it, no one is forcing you to pay $50. I know then you will say "I can't play online", well if that is the case go with the PS3 they have free online play. To me the $50 is $50, do I want to pay for it? No, but it is what it is.

You do realize that there are employees at MS that run this serivce and I think they don't want to work for free, so someone has to pay them. I think people just have to let it go, just like the RROD everyone just has to move on.

No, i think microtransactions are the biggest scam. Like having to pay to unlock content that is clealy already on the game disk.GazzaB

You have online multiplayer on your game disk, but can only play online (for a year) if you put down a yearly subscription.

Sigh* You dont get it do you. By this logic every single person hosting a server should be directly charging the consumers because they are using it.

Windows Live acccounts, Steam, Xfire, GameSpy, GameSpot, Google Mail ect. ect. ect. ect. Wouldent it be wonderful being charged for every single serverice, just like you suggest the ones that are identical with XBL justify????

I know what justifies the price because I am an end user who is using their product. If it is a ripoff or I dislike it, I dont use it. As do other people. That is what makes their scheme fail. Hence why GFWL crashed as soon as it came out. It was totally snubbed for the obvious reasons.

Its not a scam because other pay for it???? Ok that is one of the most silly things i have heard. Its like the Monorail Episode of the Simpsons being repeated before me. First off I say its a RIPOFF, its not fraud, its not a scam. Second of all because people are paying for it doesent STOP it from being a RIPOFF. Have you know IM SUBSCRIBED TO IT TOO.

And no you dont get PC online gaming at all. Its ISPs, developers and gamers themselves hosting servers. If a game has no servers whatsoever I can host a client, or my own dedicated server. Otherwise I can join a server hosted by an ISP, dev or anyone eleses. Why else are Games that are over a decade old STILL BEING PLAYED ONLINE.

XBL is purley client host based, snub a few games out there. PSN can be client hosted or dedicated hosted, depending on the game. PC online gaming is anything, it isnt 'limited' to the constraints of the console online gaming department, and never has been for well over a decade now. Why the hell do people keep thinking this? Developers update their games, and produce content to strengthen the communities, and broaden them, that is how its always been... Well had always been (still is on PC)

[QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="dhjohns"]

In your opinion. You feel the need to debate every point here and congrats because you aren't being obnoxious. You really aren't but we are going in circles. BTW, all PSN v. XBL and the like threads devolve into this. I can't fault you for your opinion; however, just like posters here won't change your mind, you are unlikely to change ours. For mine and many other people's perspective one dollar a week is worth it.

skrat_01

Horrible horrible analogies. Truly are. It is opinion whether or not XBL is worth it (essentially this is what we are debating). We are going in circles. We must agree to disagree.

However how would those analogies be horrible? my credit card details could be in my steam account with uber encrytping, as if my profile, game stats ect. And yet it is in my Live account and its suddenly part of a subscription service to keep the servers that stores such data operational and fully functioning?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=VXW&q=steam+accounts+hacked&btnG=Search

Steam was hacked quite a few times accounts...ect and not using social engineering these we're hacks on steam servers and user computers. To this day the only type of hack that happend on xbox live were social engineering hacks on users and indian tech support.