Xflop 360 will end up dead last this gen

Time to face the facts folks.  The Xflop 360 will end up third, in other words dead last.   In all honesty though Microsoft has already lost.  Their disasterious gaming endevor has cost them 5.4 billion dollars to date.

Mark my words folks Microsoft will flat out give up on their console gaming devision in a year or two.  They have officually failed at console gaming and they will cut their losses and get out soon.

Time to face the facts folks. The Xflop 360 will end up third, in other words dead last. In all honesty though Microsoft has already lost. Their disasterious gaming endevor has cost them 5.4 billion dollars to date.

Mark my words folks Microsoft will flat out give up on their console gaming devision in a year or two. They have officually failed at console gaming and they will cut their losses and get out soon.

Firelore29

Feel better now? 

*sigh* another 12 year old think he is a business anylyst. LastSamurai14

It doesn't take a business analyst to realize that 5 years of losses leaving a company 5.4 billion in the red is very bad.

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

[QUOTE="LastSamurai14"]*sigh* another 12 year old think he is a business anylyst. Firelore29

It doesn't take a business analyst to realize that 5 years of losses leaving a company 5.4 billion in the red is very bad.

Time to face the facts folks. The Xflop 360 will end up third, in other words dead last. In all honesty though Microsoft has already lost. Their disasterious gaming endevor has cost them 5.4 billion dollars to date.

Mark my words folks Microsoft will flat out give up on their console gaming devision in a year or two. They have officually failed at console gaming and they will cut their losses and get out soon.

Firelore29

I hope you're feeling like a tard by this point in the thread... 

[QUOTE="LastSamurai14"]*sigh* another 12 year old think he is a business anylyst. Firelore29

It doesn't take a business analyst to realize that 5 years of losses leaving a company 5.4 billion in the red is very bad.

MS can afford it, hell Bill Gates can whip 5 mill out of his pocket. What do you have in your pocket? 5 bucks?

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

Yikes, dude. I love my Wii, and Nintendo is my favorite company of the 3, so I don't really want to discourage your happiness with the system (judging by the "Wii rocks" icon in your sig.), but this is a fairly ridiculous statement. It's possible the 360 will end up in 3rd (just like it's possible the other 2 systems will be in the same place), but not so likely. It's outselling the PS3 even now, and again, as much as I love my Wii, I'm skeptical that it'll maintain hardware sales domination for too much longer.

Wii notwithstanding, I'm not sure why you're so positive the PS3 is going to upset the 360. Microsoft has created a revolutionary console online network, and 360 games are all selling like wildfire (and again, the 360 is outselling the PS3 even now). What makes you think this will all just implode in a couple minutes (let alone force MS out of the console business--not a chance) is beyond me...

[QUOTE="Firelore29"]

[QUOTE="LastSamurai14"]*sigh* another 12 year old think he is a business anylyst. LastSamurai14

It doesn't take a business analyst to realize that 5 years of losses leaving a company 5.4 billion in the red is very bad.

I realize that.

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

 

latinrage69

You = Wrong

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5296&Itemid=2

Halfway thru the article 5.4 billion in losses.

[QUOTE="latinrage69"]

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

http://www.isuppli.com/images/news/111606-2.gif

Firelore29

You = Wrong

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5296&Itemid=2

Halfway thru the article 5.4 billion in losses.

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

DoctorBunny

Did you even read those numbers?  You can't dispute numbers.  I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now.  There are many other factors on determining profit.  The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

Firelore29

Did you even read those numbers? You can't dispute numbers. I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now. There are many other factors on determining profit. The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

No you certainly can't dispute numbers.  They're totally infallible... 

[QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

Firelore29

Did you even read those numbers?  You can't dispute numbers.  I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now.  There are many other factors on determining profit.  The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="latinrage69"]

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

http://www.isuppli.com/images/news/111606-2.gif[/img

pundog

You = Wrong

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5296&Itemid=2

Halfway thru the article 5.4 billion in losses.

Of course I read it.  This is the response article to this original article where he basically rips Microsofts strategy to shreads:

http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/32642

[QUOTE="latinrage69"]

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

 

Firelore29

You = Wrong

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5296&Itemid=2

Halfway thru the article 5.4 billion in losses.

Yeah but you just quoted statistics that clearly stated Microsoft is $75 in the green per 360...The $5.4 billion is a cumulative loss that's been building for years. This happens, as MS hasn't always been making a profit on the 360. Now they are. Sony isn't (-$400 is worse than +$75 in my math), so I fail to see why MS should be crying. Bill Gates could lose all $5.4 billion out of his own pocket and go out and buy a country tomorrow. MS isn't going anywhere.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

pundog

Did you even read those numbers?  You can't dispute numbers.  I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now.  There are many other factors on determining profit.  The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

???  I already proved you wrong with a link please stop posting.

Time to face the facts folks.  The Xflop 360 will end up third, in other words dead last.   In all honesty though Microsoft has already lost.  Their disasterious gaming endevor has cost them 5.4 billion dollars to date.

  

Mark my words folks Microsoft will flat out give up on their console gaming devision in a year or two.  They have officually failed at console gaming and they will cut their losses and get out soon.

Firelore29

The question "is this fight worth winning" is always the first question asked before entering a market.  Obviously, MS answered "yes" to this question.  They're a miiiiildly successful business...I think they've done this a few times.  Perhaps it'll be alright.

[QUOTE="latinrage69"]

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

Firelore29

You = Wrong

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5296&Itemid=2

Halfway thru the article 5.4 billion in losses.

"Making money, e.g., the creation of long-term shareholder value, has got to be the ultimate driver of Microsoft's gaming (and H&E) strategy, right?" Ehrenberg writes. "Well, after five years and over $21 billion invested all they've got to show for it is $5.4 billion of cumulative operating losses, and Xbox 360 doesn't appear to be the silver bullet to turn things around."

that means that from spending $21 billion dollars, they managed to make back all but $5.4 billion. that means they made $15.6 billion back. once again, that's the entire H&E division not just xbo 360. please stop being eisegetic. 

please note eisegesis or eisegetic is not an insult. it means an interpreter expressing his own ideas from a given text.

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

Firelore29

Did you even read those numbers?  You can't dispute numbers.  I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now.  There are many other factors on determining profit.  The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

???  I already proved you wrong with a link please stop posting.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="latinrage69"]

that's the home entertainment division. they make more than xbox. they make the zune, iptv, home integration, software for digital set-top boxes, codecs for use in consumer video products (vc-1), hd dvd, etc. the 360 is making a $75 profit. you fail.

 

SeanBond

You = Wrong

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5296&Itemid=2

Halfway thru the article 5.4 billion in losses.

Yeah but you just quoted statistics that clearly stated Microsoft is $75 in the green per 360...The $5.4 billion is a cumulative loss that's been building for years. This happens, as MS hasn't always been making a profit on the 360. Now they are. Sony isn't (-$400 is worse than +$75 in my math), so I fail to see why MS should be crying. Bill Gates could lose all $5.4 billion out of his own pocket and go out and buy a country tomorrow. MS isn't going anywhere.

I make 75 dollars profit when I sell a console.  I sell 4 of them.  I have earned 300 dollars.  One of the 4 breaks and I have to replace it.  Cost of the system is 339 dollars. 

Net loss 39 dollars.  Granted that is a very simplistic analysis as there are contless other ways for M$ to make and loose money on production but given the simplisity of your analagy I figured this is all you could understand.

"Making money, e.g., the creation of long-term shareholder value, has got to be the ultimate driver of Microsoft's gaming (and H&E) strategy, right?" Ehrenberg writes. "Well, after five years and over $21 billion invested all they've got to show for it is $5.4 billion of cumulative operating losses, and Xbox 360 doesn't appear to be the silver bullet to turn things around."

that means that from spending $21 billion dollars, they managed to make back all but $5.4 billion. that means they made $15.6 billion back. once again, that's the entire H&E division not just xbo 360. please stop being eisegetic. 

please note eisegesis or eisegetic is not an insult. it means an interpreter expressing his own ideas from a given text.

latinrage69

I have no comment for that post.  Simply put your saying it's ok that they lost 5.4 billion dollars because they sold 15.4 billion dollars in merchandise.  Remind me to never get a job at your company.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

pundog

Did you even read those numbers?  You can't dispute numbers.  I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now.  There are many other factors on determining profit.  The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

???  I already proved you wrong with a link please stop posting.

Here Forbes.  Ever heard of them?

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html

[QUOTE="latinrage69"]
"Making money, e.g., the creation of long-term shareholder value, has got to be the ultimate driver of Microsoft's gaming (and H&E) strategy, right?" Ehrenberg writes. "Well, after five years and over $21 billion invested all they've got to show for it is $5.4 billion of cumulative operating losses, and Xbox 360 doesn't appear to be the silver bullet to turn things around."

that means that from spending $21 billion dollars, they managed to make back all but $5.4 billion. that means they made $15.6 billion back. once again, that's the entire H&E division not just xbo 360. please stop being eisegetic.

please note eisegesis or eisegetic is not an insult. it means an interpreter expressing his own ideas from a given text.

Firelore29

I have no comment for that post. Simply put your saying it's ok that they lost 5.4 billion dollars because they sold 15.4 billion dollars in merchandise. Remind me to never get a job at your company.

it's called trying to break even. the overall debt was $21 billion when they started. 1.5 years later, it is down to $5.4 billion. this time next year ms will be in the black and making huge profits. wth is not to understand. it's basic math! the $21 billion dollars was due mostly in part to the xbox 1 and other ms endeavors in the home divsion. do you understand now?

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

Firelore29

Did you even read those numbers? You can't dispute numbers. I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now. There are many other factors on determining profit. The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

??? I already proved you wrong with a link please stop posting.

Here Forbes. Ever heard of them?

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html

that article holds no credibilty due to his use of vgchartz and wikipedia rather than a credible source like NPD. 

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="latinrage69"]
"Making money, e.g., the creation of long-term shareholder value, has got to be the ultimate driver of Microsoft's gaming (and H&E) strategy, right?" Ehrenberg writes. "Well, after five years and over $21 billion invested all they've got to show for it is $5.4 billion of cumulative operating losses, and Xbox 360 doesn't appear to be the silver bullet to turn things around."

that means that from spending $21 billion dollars, they managed to make back all but $5.4 billion. that means they made $15.6 billion back. once again, that's the entire H&E division not just xbo 360. please stop being eisegetic.

please note eisegesis or eisegetic is not an insult. it means an interpreter expressing his own ideas from a given text.

latinrage69

I have no comment for that post. Simply put your saying it's ok that they lost 5.4 billion dollars because they sold 15.4 billion dollars in merchandise. Remind me to never get a job at your company.

it's called trying to break even. the overall debt was $21 billion when they started. 1.5 years later, it is down to $5.4 billion. this time next year ms will be in the black and making huge profits. wth is not to understand. it's basic math! the $21 billion dollars was due mostly in part to the xbox 1 and other ms endeavors in the home divsion. do you understand now?

Please go review the original post.  2005 losses = 485m    2006 losses = 1262m

their operating loss was l33t in 04 :P either way, if the 360 is a flop, this is one of the funnest i've played :)

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="DoctorBunny"]

You realize they make a profit on each 360 sold right?

latinrage69

Did you even read those numbers? You can't dispute numbers. I realize the cost of production will decrese and they probably do make some profit off their 360's now. There are many other factors on determining profit. The 360 has terrible relibility issues and since they have to repair a good percentage of them it kills their profits.

??? I already proved you wrong with a link please stop posting.

Here Forbes. Ever heard of them?

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html

that article holds no credibilty due to his use of vgchartz and wikipedia rather than a credible source like NPD. 

[QUOTE="latinrage69"][QUOTE="Firelore29"]

Here Forbes. Ever heard of them?

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html

 

pundog

that article holds no credibilty due to his use of vgchartz and wikipedia rather than a credible source like NPD. 

You don't get a job at Forbes because your short sighted.  That guy knows more about the stock market then everyone on this channel combined. 

I think what people here are failing to realize is that Microsoft has to support the 360's they already have out to customers.  When you look at that chart on the first page you will note that the revenue increased from 2002 to 2003 but the actual net profit was just as bad.  Do you actually think that they didn't reduce the cost of production during that year?  That is because it costs alot of money to support and maintenance systems.  Virtually the same thing will happen with the 360.

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="latinrage69"][QUOTE="Firelore29"]

Here Forbes. Ever heard of them?

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html

 

Firelore29

that article holds no credibilty due to his use of vgchartz and wikipedia rather than a credible source like NPD. 

You don't get a job at Forbes because your short sighted.  That guy knows more about the stock market then everyone on this channel combined. 

I think what people here are failing to realize is that Microsoft has to support the 360's they already have out to customers.  When you look at that chart on the first page you will note that the revenue increased from 2002 to 2003 but the actual net profit was just as bad.  Do you actually think that they didn't reduce the cost of production during that year?  That is because it costs alot of money to support and maintenance systems.  Virtually the same thing will happen with the 360.

Except that the 360 is gaining momentum, and is on top of the charts this gen, something the original Xbox never was. And analysts are like weathermen; they make vague predictions which half the time aren't even close, and yet people still believe them as if they were God. I'm no analyst, but I'm not taking one random guy's opinion as fact, either.

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="latinrage69"][QUOTE="Firelore29"]

Here Forbes. Ever heard of them?

http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html

 

Firelore29

that article holds no credibilty due to his use of vgchartz and wikipedia rather than a credible source like NPD. 

You don't get a job at Forbes because your short sighted.  That guy knows more about the stock market then everyone on this channel combined. 

I think what people here are failing to realize is that Microsoft has to support the 360's they already have out to customers.  When you look at that chart on the first page you will note that the revenue increased from 2002 to 2003 but the actual net profit was just as bad.  Do you actually think that they didn't reduce the cost of production during that year?  That is because it costs alot of money to support and maintenance systems.  Virtually the same thing will happen with the 360.

*sigh* another 12 year old think he is a business anylyst. LastSamurai14

Thats normal. They are selling every console at a loss. Get your facts straight before you make stupid threads.lucas_kelly

That 5.4b is including all revenue earned and lost from their gaming division.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="pundog"]

 That and its a financial analyst talking about something he knows nothing about. The article (that firelore29 posted BTW) mentions not only MS but 2 gaming analysts calling the Forbes guy short sighted, which is completely true.SeanBond

You don't get a job at Forbes because your short sighted.  That guy knows more about the stock market then everyone on this channel combined. 

I think what people here are failing to realize is that Microsoft has to support the 360's they already have out to customers.  When you look at that chart on the first page you will note that the revenue increased from 2002 to 2003 but the actual net profit was just as bad.  Do you actually think that they didn't reduce the cost of production during that year?  That is because it costs alot of money to support and maintenance systems.  Virtually the same thing will happen with the 360.

Except that the 360 is gaining momentum, and is on top of the charts this gen, something the original Xbox never was. And analysts are like weathermen; they make vague predictions which half the time aren't even close, and yet people still believe them as if they were God. I'm no analyst, but I'm not taking one random guy's opinion as fact, either.

Only because it had a year head start.  I'm not asking you to accept my opionon.  I'm simply pointing out the numbers.  If you choose to ignore them then that's your puragitive.

[QUOTE="SeanBond"][QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="pundog"]

 That and its a financial analyst talking about something he knows nothing about. The article (that firelore29 posted BTW) mentions not only MS but 2 gaming analysts calling the Forbes guy short sighted, which is completely true.Firelore29

You don't get a job at Forbes because your short sighted.  That guy knows more about the stock market then everyone on this channel combined. 

I think what people here are failing to realize is that Microsoft has to support the 360's they already have out to customers.  When you look at that chart on the first page you will note that the revenue increased from 2002 to 2003 but the actual net profit was just as bad.  Do you actually think that they didn't reduce the cost of production during that year?  That is because it costs alot of money to support and maintenance systems.  Virtually the same thing will happen with the 360.

Except that the 360 is gaining momentum, and is on top of the charts this gen, something the original Xbox never was. And analysts are like weathermen; they make vague predictions which half the time aren't even close, and yet people still believe them as if they were God. I'm no analyst, but I'm not taking one random guy's opinion as fact, either.

Only because it had a year head start.  I'm not asking you to accept my opionon.  I'm simply pointing out the numbers.  If you choose to ignore them then that's your puragitive.

No, you're spinning the numbers. I have no problem with your opinion, or with you stating it, but in the end, it, like that of the analyst, is just an opinion.

If the PS3 picks up in Japan in might get third. But it will probably beat the PS3 in NA.

just forget ur fanboy fantasy's its not gonna happen, the 360 is here to stay