Yeah i think I'm finnally at that point.

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flintgijoe

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#1 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts

After reading that carefully worded "news" item about Jeff on the homepage, I am convinced that I don't really care what the current staff is saying. I just don't care about most of their opinions. Nobody is touching the hot potato of the K & L video review being removed. They can say the review wasn't the reason all they want, but the fact remains that they took the review down for no other apparent reason.

Is anyone buying what they are saying?

The forums have been in near total lockdown regarding opinions about this subject, but the Mods don't have a sticky thread or anything of the like. They have never tabooed a subject without a sticky before... When are they going to take the muzzle off? A lot of posters don't even know what is going on. Are they actually trying to keep people in the Dark?

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Jynxzor

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#2 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
I'd try and keep this to the official thread, but I agree that Cnet is trying to keep us in the dark.
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flintgijoe

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#3 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts

I'd try and keep this to the official thread, but I agree that Cnet is trying to keep us in the dark.Jynxzor

If that is what the Mods want that then shouldn't they put up a sticky? We are the faithful readers and posters. It would seem a lot more fair if they put up a sticky, at least then I would feel that if they lock my thread, it is because i wasn't paying attention. As it is, it just seems like they are doing thier best to sweep this under the table.

Seriosly Casey, Cake, and other mods. Why no sticky?

I think it is a stretch to just dissmiss all of this as off-topic. We have always talked about the happenings of the game industry here at System Wars.

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Yodas_Boy

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#4 Yodas_Boy
Member since 2007 • 857 Posts
It's obviously a load of crap. Like you said, what happened with the video review? They didn't just randomly take it down for no reason.
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the_h_bomb

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#5 the_h_bomb
Member since 2007 • 3182 Posts

It's pretty clear that this site is corrupt. All of the best people have left (except alex navarro who'll be gone soon if he has any sense) and they've put a marketing guy in charge of the reviews.

The reviews on this site cant be trusted which is a damn shame given the legacy of this site. I hope CNET goes bust

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deactivated-5dd711115e664

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#6 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

It's pretty obvious their "explanation" was little more than a press release intended to stop criticism. It's like when a corporation fires its CEO - they don't want to tell people the REAL issue, so they say the person was voluntarily stepping down to seek other opportunities...or they want to spend more time with their family. They do this because the truth will make them look bad, and an obvious lie would cause the person being fired to come out with the truth.

Regardless of what they CLAIM, or even what happened behind the scenes, the fact is that he was fired for the K&L review. Whether or not it was solely because of that, or if that was the proverbial "last straw" is irrelevant. It is a lie to say the K&L had nothing to do with it. Especially considering the video was pulled, and recent news coming to light about how the company wasusingfake reviews on the official website to promote the game.

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flintgijoe

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#7 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts

It's pretty clear that this site is corrupt. All of the best people have left (except alex navarro who'll be gone soon if he has any sense) and they've put a marketing guy in charge of the reviews.

The reviews on this site cant be trusted which is a damn shame given the legacy of this site. I hope CNET goes bust

the_h_bomb

Yeah, its a shame.

I mean who makes the decision to take down the review? Jeff was top dog at GS. The only people who could have made the decision were the people above him, who were not editorial people but typical buisiness suits. What do they know about reviews? Essentially nothing. Except that it can affect thier bottom line if advertisers pull out.

Seriosly. Why did the review get taken down? How are we not supposed to come to this conclusion? They are now scrambling to put the right spin on this, but I'm not sure they can. I think they simply overreacted and screwed up big time. I wouldn't be suprised if Jeff isn't the only one that looses his Job over this matter.

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nocode81

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#8 nocode81
Member since 2007 • 127 Posts
Yep, GS is crap now....or i guess it always was, but now it's just confirmed. If it weren't for their forums, nobody would come here. If you thought all the Flop threads were getting stupid before, just wait until now. Nobody trusts the site for reviews anymore, and rightly so. Oh well, I guess the monthly NPD threads will still be fun.
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locopatho

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#9 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Yeah that press release leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Basically says "Don't worry your little heads about it, everything's fine, here look at more ads!". To hell with that.
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SeanBond

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#10 SeanBond
Member since 2003 • 2136 Posts

Yep, GS is crap now....or i guess it always was, but now it's just confirmed. If it weren't for their forums, nobody would come here. If you thought all the Flop threads were getting stupid before, just wait until now. Nobody trusts the site for reviews anymore, and rightly so. Oh well, I guess the monthly NPD threads will still be fun.nocode81

In some ways, I think it's for the better. I always used to think Gamespot was a little tougher on reviews than places like IGN (and games like the Zelda: TP, MP3 and Ratchet and Clank confirmed this), but as of late the reviews have been getting fairly crazy. Now we know why.

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flintgijoe

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#11 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts

[QUOTE="nocode81"]Yep, GS is crap now....or i guess it always was, but now it's just confirmed. If it weren't for their forums, nobody would come here. If you thought all the Flop threads were getting stupid before, just wait until now. Nobody trusts the site for reviews anymore, and rightly so. Oh well, I guess the monthly NPD threads will still be fun.SeanBond

In some ways, I think it's for the better. I always used to think Gamespot was a little tougher on reviews than places like IGN (and games like the Zelda: TP, MP3 and Ratchet and Clank confirmed this), but as of late the reviews have been getting fairly crazy. Now we know why.

I think the real problem is with the integrety going forward. How can the rest of the staff not be shaken a bit by what happened to Jeff. GS management sent a clear, harsh message.

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bezaire2005

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#12 bezaire2005
Member since 2005 • 3635 Posts
didn't see the video review for K and L...what is everybody complaining about? Kane and Lynch scored pretty even with what it is getting on gamerankings...so it's not like the review score was unjustified.
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the_h_bomb

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#13 the_h_bomb
Member since 2007 • 3182 Posts

Yeah, its a shame.

I mean who makes the decision to take down the review? Jeff was top dog at GS. The only people who could have made the decision were the people above him, who were not editorial people but typical buisiness suits. What do they know about reviews? Essentially nothing. Except that it can affect thier bottom line if advertisers pull out.

Seriosly. Why did the review get taken down? How are we not supposed to come to this conclusion? They are now scrambling to put the right spin on this, but I'm not sure they can. I think they simply overreacted and screwed up big time. I wouldn't be suprised if Jeff isn't the only one that looses his Job over this matter.

flintgijoe

They must have taken the decision after consulting eidos. I'm expectin navarro to go soon. He's the last of the old guard and i doubt he'll stand for this

I doubt that anyone else will be fired for this (apart from the reviewers who refuse to bow down to management). Gamespot has made it perfectly clear that they want this site to be a marketing tool and not a source of legitimate reviews. RIP

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slduncanlaw

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#14 slduncanlaw
Member since 2005 • 336 Posts

I'm sure that the K&L review played it's part, but I believe it was more of a culmination of issues. As an attorney that has dealt with wrongful termination cases, we won't know anything possibly ever. What does seem the least likely is that GS and CNET let him go only because of an unfavorable review. I recall the pages of LAIR ads that covered their sites before and after the 4.5 review and video review.

But compare the video reviews of both games to each other. There are tonal differences that speak volumes. At the end of the day, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. We also don't know Jeff. He could be just as much a victim as he could be an employee that was getting too big for his boots.

The editorializing in the K&L review IMO went too far. You can say what is wrong with the game without getting personal. And while editorializing in a personal review is expected, I can see Jeff's style of review not jiving with GS's obvious attempt to standardize their review system.

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the_h_bomb

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#15 the_h_bomb
Member since 2007 • 3182 Posts

I'm sure that the K&L review played it's part, but I believe it was more of a culmination of issues. As an attorney that has dealt with wrongful termination cases, we won't know anything possibly ever. What does seem the least likely is that GS and CNET let him go only because of an unfavorable review. I recall the pages of LAIR ads that covered their sites before and after the 4.5 review and video review.

But compare the video reviews of both games to each other. There are tonal differences that speak volumes. At the end of the day, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. We also don't know Jeff. He could be just as much a victim as he could be an employee that was getting too big for his boots.

The editorializing in the K&L review IMO went too far. You can say what is wrong with the game without getting personal. And while editorializing in a personal review is expected, I can see Jeff's style of review not jiving with GS's obvious attempt to standardize their review system.

slduncanlaw

what part of the review did you take offence to?

I saw nothing wrong with it. He didn't insult the developers or their mothers. He marely said it was a poor, profanity laden game with unsympathetic characters and he wouldnt reccomend paying full price for it.

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deactivated-5dd711115e664

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#16 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

I'm sure that the K&L review played it's part, but I believe it was more of a culmination of issues. As an attorney that has dealt with wrongful termination cases, we won't know anything possibly ever. What does seem the least likely is that GS and CNET let him go only because of an unfavorable review. I recall the pages of LAIR ads that covered their sites before and after the 4.5 review and video review.

But compare the video reviews of both games to each other. There are tonal differences that speak volumes. At the end of the day, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. We also don't know Jeff. He could be just as much a victim as he could be an employee that was getting too big for his boots.

The editorializing in the K&L review IMO went too far. You can say what is wrong with the game without getting personal. And while editorializing in a personal review is expected, I can see Jeff's style of review not jiving with GS's obvious attempt to standardize their review system.

slduncanlaw

As an attorney, surely you should know the difference between a company not taking any action (that we know of) due to a negative review, and a company that pulls (or threatens to pull)future advertising revenue because of a review.

In short, it wasn't the review that got Jeff in trouble. It was Eidos saying they will not advertise on GS and therefore GS would lose money. As far as anyone knows, no such claim was made by the people behind Lair.

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slduncanlaw

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#17 slduncanlaw
Member since 2005 • 336 Posts
[QUOTE="slduncanlaw"]

I'm sure that the K&L review played it's part, but I believe it was more of a culmination of issues. As an attorney that has dealt with wrongful termination cases, we won't know anything possibly ever. What does seem the least likely is that GS and CNET let him go only because of an unfavorable review. I recall the pages of LAIR ads that covered their sites before and after the 4.5 review and video review.

But compare the video reviews of both games to each other. There are tonal differences that speak volumes. At the end of the day, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. We also don't know Jeff. He could be just as much a victim as he could be an employee that was getting too big for his boots.

The editorializing in the K&L review IMO went too far. You can say what is wrong with the game without getting personal. And while editorializing in a personal review is expected, I can see Jeff's style of review not jiving with GS's obvious attempt to standardize their review system.

ZIMdoom

As an attorney, surely you should know the difference between a company not taking any action (that we know of) due to a negative review, and a company that pulls (or threatens to pull)future advertising revenue because of a review.

In short, it wasn't the review that got Jeff in trouble. It was Eidos saying they will not advertise on GS and therefore GS would lose money. As far as anyone knows, no such claim was made by the people behind Lair.

As an attorney, I'm versed on my state's law and federal law - a business decision falls outside that relm. What I do know is that GS and CNet is a viable and important source for a publishing company to advertise to a specific audience that is substantial. I don't think Eidos is in a position to not advertise on GS or Cnet.

You're being very speculative on the facts, which admittedly are thin. And as to the review, I didn't take any offense to it - I have no vested interest in it. But I can see where someone who does, would. There is a big difference in telling an audience where a 6.0 game has its flaws and telling that audience not to buy the game.

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flintgijoe

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#18 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts
[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="slduncanlaw"]

I'm sure that the K&L review played it's part, but I believe it was more of a culmination of issues. As an attorney that has dealt with wrongful termination cases, we won't know anything possibly ever. What does seem the least likely is that GS and CNET let him go only because of an unfavorable review. I recall the pages of LAIR ads that covered their sites before and after the 4.5 review and video review.

But compare the video reviews of both games to each other. There are tonal differences that speak volumes. At the end of the day, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. We also don't know Jeff. He could be just as much a victim as he could be an employee that was getting too big for his boots.

The editorializing in the K&L review IMO went too far. You can say what is wrong with the game without getting personal. And while editorializing in a personal review is expected, I can see Jeff's style of review not jiving with GS's obvious attempt to standardize their review system.

slduncanlaw

As an attorney, surely you should know the difference between a company not taking any action (that we know of) due to a negative review, and a company that pulls (or threatens to pull)future advertising revenue because of a review.

In short, it wasn't the review that got Jeff in trouble. It was Eidos saying they will not advertise on GS and therefore GS would lose money. As far as anyone knows, no such claim was made by the people behind Lair.

As an attorney, I'm versed on my state's law and federal law - a business decision falls outside that relm. What I do know is that GS and CNet is a viable and important source for a publishing company to advertise to a specific audience that is substantial. I don't think Eidos is in a position to not advertise on GS or Cnet.

You're being very speculative on the facts, which admittedly are thin. And as to the review, I didn't take any offense to it - I have no vested interest in it. But I can see where someone who does, would. There is a big difference in telling an audience where a 6.0 game has its flaws and telling that audience not to buy the game.

I don't buy it. This wasn't just a thought out business decision that we simply ignore the facts too.

The evidence clearly suggests that Jeff's firing was reactionary. It was an on the spot kind of thing. They didn't faze him out, and they didn't put a plan that would transition his leaving. The pulled the plug. The On the Spot show that day was cancelled. They took several days to put up an official response. Staff members have stated that they were hit by surprise.

At the very least, some executives at Cnet handled this situation horribly and needlessly put the credibility of Gamespot at stake. At the worse, CNET has been trying to cover up their willingness to allow advertisers to influence review scores. Either way, the situation is disastrous for Gamespot.

We know that the review played a key role because it was pulled right along with Jeff. We have all seen the review. It just isn't that offensive. It fits a 6.0 score. Jeff dissaproves of the game, and he simply states his reasons. These are game jornalists, they love some things and dislike others. It doesn't make sense unlees you factor in a "vested interest." But when the executives at CNET allow themselves to disaprove of a review because of a vested interest, they hand power over to the addvertisers.

The fact that they pulled the review was just foolishness on their part. They tipped their hand, when they shouldn't have. They have created this situation, and the "official GS word" doesn't help because it reeks of cooperate speak. All we get from Gamespot is a "It wasn't me." They need to do more than that if they want to gain their credibility back.

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laughingman42

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#19 laughingman42
Member since 2007 • 8730 Posts
can I get a link to the press release.
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GARRYTH

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#20 GARRYTH
Member since 2005 • 6870 Posts
i think now there going to score the best score from who ever pays the most money. i sorry but i think alot of 360 games were paid off for a high scores or vice versa with hte ps 3.
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flintgijoe

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#21 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts

can I get a link to the press release.laughingman42

GS official take on the current homepage

It all started when Kotaku broke the story last Thursday.

See the review here.

And that is all just the tip of the iceberg. There is a ton of coverage across the internet.

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Norg

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#22 Norg
Member since 2002 • 15959 Posts
there is a sticky thread of this topic in OT u failed
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-Renegade

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#23 -Renegade
Member since 2007 • 8340 Posts
Thing is we already know what happen. It's up to you whether you choose to believe it or not.
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#24 GXR
Member since 2003 • 1476 Posts

Greg and Jeff where the main reasons I watched on the spot and subscribed to GS.

GS to me now is nothing more then IGN...

something is most definately wrong with the whole Jeff thing and I for one have canceled my subscription..

I know,I know.. Me canceling my subscription wont hurt GS at all, but Im not wasting my money on a site I dont trust.

there ya have it...

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AFBrat77

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#25 AFBrat77
Member since 2004 • 26848 Posts

I'd try and keep this to the official thread, but I agree that Cnet is trying to keep us in the dark.Jynxzor

In all fairness his tone was rather unprofessional and nasty, perhaps having been warned previously this may have been the final straw.

The site has been going downhill anyways since Greg K. left, maybe Jeff's replacement will get it back on track.

Indications (see Game Trailers video review) are that its not that bad of a game.

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flintgijoe

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#26 flintgijoe
Member since 2004 • 1954 Posts

there is a sticky thread of this topic in OT u failed Norg

This isn't the OT forum is it? And I'm not sure what thread you are talking about on the OT forum.

There is a 13,00+ post thread on this topic in the OT forum, but it isn't stickied. Once again, it is as if they want to just sweep this under the rug.

Try not to own yourself so hard next time and check first.