You can hate on the Wii all you want but give them credit for.....

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Adamantium4k2

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Pixel-Pirate

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

This is why it's great to have choices. Those that look down on the Wii and it's larger, more casual audience have TWO other consoles to choose from. And anyone who moans that they are Nintendo's loyal fan base and feel abandoned should look at the consistent release of core games from core franchises on the Wii.

This is why it's great to have choices. Those that look down on the Wii and it's larger, more casual audience have TWO other consoles to choose from. And anyone who moans that they are Nintendo's loyal fan base and feel abandoned should look at the consistent release of core games from core franchises on the Wii.

jimkabrhel

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

akira2465

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

akira2465

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

The thing is that with development costs going to the roof, companies need some extra cash, so casual is the answer, and i think that developers are smart enough to realize that they will not survive for so long with only casuals, so that's why i don't think they forget about core gaming, so, IMO and so far, i have no problem with this, besides, the Wii is getting plenty of core titles.

[QUOTE="akira2465"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

nintendo-4life

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

LOL no I didn't realize that , I don't remember my grandparents wanting to play GOW, thanks for the info though

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Adamantium4k2

No, I don't agree. I credit them for trying something new and different. I credit them for carving out their own niche and not getting sucked into what could very well be an unsustainable "power battle". I credit them for still staying true to their roots and releasing classic games with a new look (although I want more new ips).

However, while Nintendo has certainly seen great success by focusing on this new audience, it has cost them their loyal, long term audience. And I see absolutely ZERO evidence that this new audience cares about gaming AT ALL. This new audience, as I see it, still know nothing about games, gaming, and show no signs that they are going to move upstream which is what Nintendo really wanted. Nintendo wanted to attract these new gamers in hopes they would eventually become long-term, loyal, or "hardcore" gamers. Yet I see zero evidence this is happening. Instead I just see Nintendo scrambling to constantly find new ways to appeal to different groups of this broad audience.

So no, I don't credit Nintendo for this new audience because I don't think this audience is going to stick around. By the looks of Nintendo's latest financial releases, this audience doesn't even seem like they will stick around for the life of the Wii itself, letalone stay as long-term gamers over many gens.

I also STRONGLY disagree with the people calling this new group "casual". This new audience isn't casual because being "casual" implies they have some regularity or reliable pattern to their action, even if its not all that serious. This new audience doesn't fit the "casual" definition or behaviour. This new audience Nintendo is focusing on is NON-GAMERS. They want people who don't care about videogames, or who may have never played videogames before, to now suddenly buy in. It has worked but only temporarily. The stories seem to be that this audience is buying the Wii for maybe one of two things (like Wii sports or Wii fit) and then once they get bored with those, never really play it again. That isn't casual gamer...that is a non-gamer buying into the latest fad.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="akira2465"]

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

akira2465

LOL no I didn't realize that , I don't remember my grandparents wanting to play GOW, thanks for the info though

This is why it's great to have choices. Those that look down on the Wii and it's larger, more casual audience have TWO other consoles to choose from. And anyone who moans that they are Nintendo's loyal fan base and feel abandoned should look at the consistent release of core games from core franchises on the Wii.

jimkabrhel

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

This is why it's great to have choices. Those that look down on the Wii and it's larger, more casual audience have TWO other consoles to choose from. And anyone who moans that they are Nintendo's loyal fan base and feel abandoned should look at the consistent release of core games from core franchises on the Wii.

charizard1605

Thanks! :)

[QUOTE="akira2465"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] you do realize God of war, GTA and halo were the casual games of last generation right?nintendo-4life

LOL no I didn't realize that , I don't remember my grandparents wanting to play GOW, thanks for the info though

Using your example , Did GT bring some people into gaming? yes I agree but the majority of those sales were from gamers like myself who have been gaming since theNES/Genesis days. You could basically make the argument for any game , like COD:MW2 probably brought in some new gamers.

My argument is yes the Wii has expanded the video game consumer base but they have most of their resources tied into the casual market which is detracting from the hardcore market. I wouldn't be stating this opinion if Nintendo also brought out more hardcore games for a better balance. With all the $$$$ Nintendo brings in , you'd think they would be bringing out F-Zero/DK/Star fox/Pikmin etc. Instead the hardcore audience gets Animal crossing.

It just feels like Nintendo wanted to go after the casual market and it left the hardcore market for third party devs (Nintendo has made a few harcore games) and now that third party devs see that they can't sell anything close to first party games for the Wii, they might abandon it.

We won't fully realize how many gamers Nintendo brought until they come out with their next console, because I honestly believe most of the casuals will not buy another machine when they already have Wii Fit to play on the Wii.

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Adamantium4k2

Certainly, the Wii sales are healthier for the market, but had the Wii not existed, the 360 or PS3 or PSP or DS or something else entirely would've filled that void, because something always fills that void.

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Greatgone12

Certainly, the Wii sales are healthier for the market, but had the Wii not existed, the 360 or PS3 or PSP or DS or something else entirely would've filled that void, because something always fills that void.

Something would have filled that void, but it would not have been any of the other consoles or handhelds on the market. One of the biggest draws of the Wii is the ability for the entire family to play. Regardless of some of the commercials I've seen for the 360, I don't think it, or the PS3, are as family friendly. The family friendly aspect of the Wii is unique currently, and would be replaced more by boards games and the like, rather than the other systems. There isn't an experience like Wii Sports, a universally attractive game, on any other system currently.

It could be that with the Wand and Natal that the other systems could offer more offline family multiplayer, but that has yet to be seen.

This is why it's great to have choices. Those that look down on the Wii and it's larger, more casual audience have TWO other consoles to choose from. And anyone who moans that they are Nintendo's loyal fan base and feel abandoned should look at the consistent release of core games from core franchises on the Wii.

jimkabrhel

great summary. this guy speaks the truth.;)

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry.

Adamantium4k2

Oh I give them credit for it, I just don't see it as being a positive thing.

Just wait until they decide to branch out to other platforms, it's going to make the health regen and hand holding presently dumbing down games look hardcore.

Well. I don't like it but if Nintendo wasn't the one doing it, you better believe Microsoft or Sony would be.

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Pixel-Pirate

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

Ratchet_Fan8

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

Online isn't necessary to be a good game, or even to have good multiplayer. The multiplayer games for the Wii, specifically Wii sports are to be for several people in the same room.

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

akira2465

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

If you ask me, I'd say they're already doing it with the core games at a slow but noticable pace. Partly because of Pc/console multiplats leading to downgrades in multiple ways from gameplay to overall scale, and the simplicity and newcomer welcome. In everything from Fps to Racers, and even rpgs. Luckily, its not bad enough that I want to steer away from the games as of yet. Many may not agree with me but thats how I see it.

Nintendom though: Sure Congrats to them and the people who enjoy wii.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

.....bringing a bigger, broader audience to the video game industry. The Wii is doing its part in helping the industry in sales that translates into a more healthier market for the future. The Xbox and Playstation division alone cannot help the industry gain the profit it needs in order to have a bright future. Appealing to 'hardcore' gamers just won't cut it. Thats why we should at least respect the Wii for going a different direction.

Agree?

akira2465

The reason people hate the Wii is BECAUSE it brings a bigger broader audience into gaming. It shows developers that casual gaming sells better, and that terrifies people who only like core games, because developers may stop focusing on them.

Atleast that has always been my impression.

Very true, if the casual market changes gaming and makes it more simple, that would be a downgrade for the hardcore crowd. Although with the way third party titles are selling on the Wii , we might not have to worry about that.

people fearing that devs will stop making epic hardcore games are silly. just look at the facts: very few casual games sell well..... especially ones that arent made by nintendo.

in reality, the games that consistently sell the most are the 'hardcore' ones

all nintendo is doing is showing that the videogame industry is big enough to handle both markets, casual and hardcore

i think its great. as one of those people who doesnt care if the video gaming industry crashes and burns (and lol if the wii somehow causes that!), im happy to recieve a console i can play with my extended family on. its fantastic. i would trade most of the 'core' gaming crap away to keep my wii around because

a) everyone in my home, or who visits my home, can be entertained by it

b) i have better, more in-depth and intellectually stimulating hobbies outside video games

c) the arcade scene here will never die, so i can always get my fighting game fix

A bigger, broader audience that like a smaller, low quality games. Who cares about them. They don't benefit gaming in anyway. They don't bring in the goods at all.

A bigger, broader audience that like a smaller, low quality games. Who cares about them. They don't benefit gaming in anyway. They don't bring in the goods at all.

Dahaka-UK

They bring in money. Making money is, after all, the ONLY reason why businesses exist. Face it, money is the most important objective in the world.

A bigger, broader audience that like a smaller, low quality games. Who cares about them. They don't benefit gaming in anyway. They don't bring in the goods at all.

Dahaka-UK

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

[QUOTE="Dahaka-UK"]

A bigger, broader audience that like a smaller, low quality games. Who cares about them. They don't benefit gaming in anyway. They don't bring in the goods at all.

ogvampire

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

ogvampire

The broader the audience the more diluted the experience, it is why there is allot of babying and hand holding in games these days.

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

ogvampire

This is why it's great to have choices. Those that look down on the Wii and it's larger, more casual audience have TWO other consoles to choose from. And anyone who moans that they are Nintendo's loyal fan base and feel abandoned should look at the consistent release of core games from core franchises on the Wii.

jimkabrhel

this.

As I don't sell video games why should I care? Anyways any games I seem to play wouldn't be effected if casual gamers played games or not.

I never asked for a bigger, broader audience to the video-games industry. If that's the thing the Wii did good, then the Wii should be hated indeed.Junior_AIN

The video game industry doesn't care. Companies will make changes to thier direction based on current trends and the economy overall. Just because you want to be part of a mythical exclusive club doesn't mean that you'll get your wish. Video games aren't just for a small minority of generally teenaged and adult males anymore.

Didn't the PS1 do this? Don't try telling me that everyone who bought it was a gamer.BattleTurtles

Actually, i think it was the Gameboy who was one of the earliest contributors to the term people call "casual" gaming.

And instead of aking a long post, saying what people said earlier, i'll just say that i fully agree with what you said, jimkabrhel.

imagine someone who never watched a movie, or someone who never readed a single book

there are no such people that have the oppertunity but never tryed one of those things.

but its diffrent with videogames , people tend to think its something for kids or its basicly a waste of time

you should go out and play soccer or something.

what the wii is trying to do is to make gameing as big as the movie industry.

how eals is gameing supposed to evolve if it only concentrates on the same group of people?

sooner or later each genre will become a dry desert like the FPS or JRPG

i personaly want gameing to be considered entertainment aswell as an art form

but there is a long way til people finally will accept gameing for what it is, and the wii is a step forward to make more people care as much about gameing as us gamers do.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="Dahaka-UK"]

A bigger, broader audience that like a smaller, low quality games. Who cares about them. They don't benefit gaming in anyway. They don't bring in the goods at all.

Dahaka-UK

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

sports? music? movies? any of these ring a bell?

also, let me clue you in on Nintendo's Blue Ocean strategy:

its a LONG term plan to turn non-gamers into casual gamers, and then casual gamers into 'core' gamers. they have to first get non-gamers to play games, they are doing this by making simple and fun games.

they will start making more 'core' games once they feel that casual gamers are ready to move on

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

standarddamage

hasnt that been the story for nintendo consoles for the past 3 gens?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

AnnoyedDragon

The broader the audience the more diluted the experience, it is why there is allot of babying and hand holding in games these days.

the broader the audience the more diverse the opinion...

of course us hardcore gamers dont like adverse opinions... so more people enjoying our hobby is somehow a bad thing...

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yup, making gaming more popular doesnt benefit it all.... i love 'reverse logic day'

ogvampire

The broader the audience the more diluted the experience, it is why there is allot of babying and hand holding in games these days.

the broader the audience the more diverse the opinion...

of course us hardcore gamers dont like adverse opinions... so more people enjoying our hobby is somehow a bad thing...

"Oh no, more people are being let into the club! It's not special anymore! I'm MAD!!!!!!!!"

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

The broader the audience the more diluted the experience, it is why there is allot of babying and hand holding in games these days.

jimkabrhel

the broader the audience the more diverse the opinion...

of course us hardcore gamers dont like adverse opinions... so more people enjoying our hobby is somehow a bad thing...

"Oh no, more people are being let into the club! It's not special anymore! I'm MAD!!!!!!!!"

thats pretty much it...

the broader the audience the more diverse the opinion...

of course us hardcore gamers dont like adverse opinions... so more people enjoying our hobby is somehow a bad thing...

ogvampire

Opinion?

Quest compasses makes things easier, regenerative health makes things easier, a "win button" makes things easier, reducing dialogue options makes things easier.

This isn't a matter of opinion, the broader the audience you seek the more accessible you have to make the game; which dumbs things down.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="akira2465"]

LOL no I didn't realize that , I don't remember my grandparents wanting to play GOW, thanks for the info though

akira2465

Using your example , Did GT bring some people into gaming? yes I agree but the majority of those sales were from gamers like myself who have been gaming since theNES/Genesis days. You could basically make the argument for any game , like COD:MW2 probably brought in some new gamers.

My argument is yes the Wii has expanded the video game consumer base but they have most of their resources tied into the casual market which is detracting from the hardcore market. I wouldn't be stating this opinion if Nintendo also brought out more hardcore games for a better balance. With all the $$$$ Nintendo brings in , you'd think they would be bringing out F-Zero/DK/Star fox/Pikmin etc. Instead the hardcore audience gets Animal crossing.

It just feels like Nintendo wanted to go after the casual market and it left the hardcore market for third party devs (Nintendo has made a few harcore games) and now that third party devs see that they can't sell anything close to first party games for the Wii, they might abandon it.

We won't fully realize how many gamers Nintendo brought until they come out with their next console, because I honestly believe most of the casuals will not buy another machine when they already have Wii Fit to play on the Wii.

I love how people simply assume that the new player base that the Wii/Casual market is bringing in will never have ANY interest in what everyone here considers a "Core" title. Yet remember back to the Atari/NES days. How simple games were? 1 or 2 buttons needed to be used? A joystick with just 1 button? A Light gun?... Wii is bringing that simplicity back, and come the successor of the Wii, people will want bigger and better, just like every subsequent generation. More input options, better motion controls, and more core titles. If Microsoft and Sony didn't think this, than why would they even bother wasting resources on their interpretations of motion controls?

Technically, you can already see the shift from Casual to Core with the amount of games releasing that blend casual gaming with traditional elements. Look at the Puzzle Quest games, Gyromancer, World of Goo, Plants vs Zombies. These are all casual games that are pushing the casual gamer towards a more hardcore style of gaming. You can't just say "did you have fun with Wii Play? Great! Here is COD: Modern Warfare!

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

the broader the audience the more diverse the opinion...

of course us hardcore gamers dont like adverse opinions... so more people enjoying our hobby is somehow a bad thing...

AnnoyedDragon

Opinion?

Quest compasses makes things easier, regenerative health makes things easier, a "win button" makes things easier, reducing dialogue options makes things easier.

This isn't a matter of opinion, the broader the audience you seek the more accessible you have to make the game; which dumbs things down.

hm... reviewers are considered hardcore gamers, and yet i havent seen them complain about quest compasses and regenerative health

in fact, reviewers complain when a quest ISN'T clear enough in terms of where to to go or what to do next (which is why quest compasses are pretty much standard now)

but hey, who knows better than a random forum user...