You guys don't get it, the PS5 and Xbox 4 are already out!

Those who are wondering when the PS5 or Xbox 4 will be released don't get it. There is no PS5/XBox 4, not like it was in the past. What I mean is, next year MS is releasing the scorpio. Sony will follow sometime after with their successor to the PS4 pro. However, if you want to keep your regular PS4 or Xbox 1, you will still be able to play PS5 and Xbox 4 games.

You guys got that, the systems we have now will run future "next gen" games. At some point, there will be games that will be released that will be top of the line and they will say for example(only on Xbox 4 or PS5 because the other consoles won't have the hardware to run them even on low settings. But this is years away and won't be the standard.

That is what is so genius about Microsoft's move to announce the Scorpio this past E3. It sent a message to gamers that they can buy an X1 and all the games they want and they will receive a big upgrade soon. So all the new games they got will get a big performance boost when/if they upgrade.

The main difference with this strategy is that in the past console makers pushed huge efforts to try to get people to upgrade to the next gen consoles. This time around it doesn't matter, yes they want you to upgrade but they are fine if you don't upgrade and just keep on buying games with the last gen console. Everything will be forward and back compatible. It's a new strategy and I think it's great because the developers can just concentrate on making great games and don't have to worry about waiting 3 years after a new console is out before it has an installed base big enough that they can release a AAA game for it. Now that line will be completely blurred. It's great for the industry and great for us gamers.

This is what I've been saying.

I couldn't read all of that BS, but a C for effort I guess?

That's what I'm wondering about. If they're ditching the idea of successors, what does that really entail for us gamers?

Does this mean that there will be no push for cool exclusives with every hardware iteration, and no chance of new game design that wouldn't work on hardware from 10 years ago? Cause if that's the case you can look at the Switch and say they need a strong launch lineup, but that would mean MS and Sony are ditching launch lineups in their entirety. That would kinda kill off that discussion in one fell swoop.

yes it's semantics, trying to sell a PC hardware upgrade-type model to a consumer base used to resetting the counter every 4-6 years

If the PS5 is out then why did Sony call it the PS4 Pro?

@Xplode_games:

It's waaaaay too soon to say that they're done with new consoles. MS and Sony announcing the Pro and Scorpio as just complimentary to the original consoles puts the nail that they're not trying to make these upgrades a thing. Same games, controllers, UI, nothing about them is next gen. They've been announced that they're not meant to outlive the consoles, only sold alongside them.

That's funny, those upgrades seem to perfectly state their current console's names.

The "exclusives" will be if you want to play it in 4K(top of the line graphics) then you gotta get a PS5/Xbox4. Or you can just run it sub 1080p but at least you're playing the game. The developer wants to show off his game with the best possible graphics but they also want to make sure as many people as possible can play it. It means a much wider audience and it also means potential large profits if they deliver a popular game.

From a gamer's perspective we will get games that will run decently and be optimized well on last gen consoles but if we want to upgrade then we know these games will really shine with state of the art graphics. More options for us is always a good thing.

One final point I want to make is that games exclusive to one platform will soon be a thing of the past. It simply doesn't make sense to do that anymore. The only reason it makes sense is if you really think Sony or MS can win a platform war like what happened with HD DVD vs Blu-Ray. Exclusives made everyone choose Blu-ray and they became the only platform for HD movies. That's not going to happen with video games. Eventually Sony and MS are going to have to realize that both consoles must run every game and that will benefit both companies and consumers alike.

The problem with this strategy is that Scorpio games can come out that simply won't work on the X1 due to cpu limitations, or gpu limitations. Sometimes, turning down the graphics settings just isn't enough, especially with CPU bound games that have a lot of physics and AI going on. So, either those games are gimped at the core, or they won't be available on the older models.

Now just use your heads and get rid of the effing consoles and go PC and get the same effect but much better

@Phazevariance: They'll be built with the Xbone first and scaled up for the Scorpio, its really not tjat hard to understand or figure out.

Game development is too expensive to cater to only the smallest percentage of people who have recently purchased the latest and greatest PC or even console. You should expect pretty much every game released for the next 3-4 years to be able to run on PS4 and Xbone even if they have to run in sub HD.

This is what's going to happen especially when Sony releases their true upgrade system around 2019.

Sony as well as MS will allow as many multiplat games as possible come out on older PS4 and xbone system but they will not restrict higher end games from coming out their higher end machines nor will they shy away from creating exclusives that flex the systems power, MS will be more open about doing this as soon as they get wind of Sony's full fledged hardware release.

PS4 pro will end up being the base PS4 when the new system from Sony comes out and it will likely be the only version of PS4 to get ports of higher end titles.

What console generation was the 32X?

What generation was the N64 with the memory expansion?

@Xplode_games:

You realize that this strategy would basically be permanently stunting the videogames graphically, right? Games would be made on ps4 and Xbox One base but upscaled for Pro and Scorpio. Then Microsoft and Sony will start to lose money that they would earn from console sales because the need to buy them won't be there anymore.

You can already play Uncharted 5 and Halo 6, why bother getting the expensive ass upgrades? The select few who will buy the Scorpio will realize it's just a niche upgrade and probably sell it, just like the ps4 Pro. You know people will sell it. People ALWAYS sell shit even if it's good. It would be the stupidest business move they would ever do. I mean- it would be heaven for us! I'd love knowing that I don't have to buy more consoles but the companies will suffer from the money lost that I would spend to buy the next Xbox 4 and ps5.

If your theory is correct then dev's are gonna have to do so much porting someday

The biggest problem with this is the fact that they are now simply PCs, which is also why the games will be compatible. This is not a new strategy, its just the PC market repeated in the console market, and at the end of the day, is rather redundant and defeats the purpose of consoles.

That said, this is exactly why i suspect we will see a new player come in and do some serious damage to MS and Sony. The reality is they are stepping into a market that other companies are more capable in and have done better in and if i were Nintendo, i'd actually try to team up with one of these companies for the American and European markets.

If consoles continue the way they are its just a matter of time until theyre done, its a ticking bomb.

No they wont be and again this is part of the problem.

The 8th+ generations do nothing but mimic PCs in every way, this includes hardware and how it functions. All they will need to do is apply the necessary drivers from Nvidia and AMD (whichever they are going with at the time) for PCs.

It is actually going to extend consoles as they currently exist. No one planned on the 8th gen being what it is becasue they all expected a completely digital answer. Something entirely different from traditional systems. But due to a spiraling economy and the slowing down of new tech to the average consumer, they went ahead and went traditional.

As stated though, the problem with this model is its a short term fix and they end up entering a market that could permanently damage both companies.

@vfighter: C minus at best.

Yep, exactly.

I mentioned that months ago. I also mentioned they will likely drop the #'s. Eventually it'll just be Xbox and Playstation with some kind of sub title to note the model. Like how iPad 4 went to iPad Air. Personally I think they should use TFLOPS as marketing labels because it can also note which model it is at the same time. So a label on the box and in marketing for Playstation Pro would be 6 TFLOPS and 12 TFLOPS or whatever would be the next iteration, keeping just the Playstation name. Or they could keep the Pro line as the more expensive hardware but either way a label displaying TFLOPS immediately tells people which system model it is and how powerful it is by direct comparison to older models.

That also always whines about buying new peripherals and lack of backward compatibility. With x86 architecture, there is no need. Offering upgrade options is no different than Samsung offering a new Galaxy phone while previous models drop some in price and still for sale in the market. Some people still use a Galaxy note 4, 5..etc even though there is a 7 and yet still run the same Android apps in the Playstore.

@pimphand_gamer: exactly. We stand to benefit, IMO

Technology has advanced so far that there pretty much is no type of game that can't be rendered on lesser hardware by simply dropping the resolution. The days of HW not being able to run certain games are gone. Anything Scorpio can run XB1 can run at lower resolutions/settings and anything PS4 Pro can run so can PS4 at lower resolutions and settings.

Exceedingly high care level.

@killered3: no it would be just like games coming out on PS4/Xbox1 and also coming out on PS3/360 ? Only this time the architecture will be way more similar and easier to develop. Scorpio will have games that count be played on Xbox One/S that's been announced. Most specifically any VR type games. Eventually there will be more game that just won't be possible on Xbox One, and they will only release on Scorpio. It's not hard logic to understand. By the time this happens I'm sure Scorpio sees a price cut and moves into a lower tiered model and MS announced something else to continue the trend.

Why people are losing their minds and not understanding how this works is beyond me.

No, they aren't.

Here you basically just described how generations work. For example many games kept coming out on PS2 and PS3 until the PS2 hardware was already so behind that it made no sense anymore. That you think this is something new is kind of baffling.

@xxyetixx:

That's a tall order and it would be based on expecting the Scorpio model to outsell the original Xbox One. No developer in the right mind is going to wanna make a game tailored the specs of console variations. Unless it's VR. Scorpio and Pro are secondary. Unless the Pro and Scorpio start selling like wildfire, they will remain secondary when it comes to specs.

Sony was smart in knowing that the Pro will be a niche for the few who care that much about slightly more power. I dunno about Microsoft though but at least they admitted that it will not have exclusives outside of VR games. Saying that it will in the future is on hope that Scorpio will be an enormous success.

Not really. Since the games must still work on the original Xbox One and PS4, it means all future games are limited by the lowest common denominator in capability (physics etc).

Would MS and Sony really **** the industry like that? Sounds like a raw deal to me. Just because it's becoming harder to make graphical jumps more obvious and since that's the main selling point to console gamers, 'wow look at teh shiny thing'. Sad state of affairs.

@killered3: to say Scorpio will have games that won't be on Xbox One/S is just an eventual fact. If MS is committed to the plan they have in place and don't want to stagnate games development Xbox One/S will be phased out. PR is PR and it's nice to say no one let behind and you can game at your own price point, but Xbox One/S will become obsolete, and MS will have to go forward with out. If they don't there is zero chance of what they are trying to accomplish working. PC will continue to advance and get better tech people will upgrade, MS will now have to also. It's either be happy and content with stagnated developed games, and ride Win10 play anywhere, and software sales. Or it's MS consoles will be released and/or updatable via performance enhancing purchases, and games move forward and get better, and MS can keep on par with the ever evolving game industry.

MS could chose the former and the cows can rejoice because it would be an epic fail on MS part or MS could be setting themselves up for an exit stratedgy for hardware all together. Only time will tell.

The difference being that you could not run the PS2 version on the PS3. There will be no PS4 version and PS4 Pro version of a game you'll buy the exact same game, regardless of the toy you have to run it on. The only difference is the settings that are used. You appear to the one who is baffled by this, not the OP

@HalcyonScarlet: have you ever seen games like Crysis running at the bare minimum specs required to run it? Then got a chance to see the same game? running on a PC that was top of the line best of everything?

That's what MS and most likely Sony will be going for moving forward. We just won't have quite the graphical/FPS leaps as described in that example.

If that's the case, then why the hell would anyone continue to dick around with consoles as their go-to gaming platform?

You might as well jump head first into PC gaming

The console gamer motto of "PC gaming is too expensive" can be thrown right out the window in that case.

Funny thing is, by the time the Scorpio drops, there are dumbasses who will have bought an XBone, XBone S, and Scorpio...all to play the same games with minor graphical tweaks.

Sony can get fucked for essentially doing the same thing.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all seem like they have their heads up their asses this year.

I have little faith in this strategy. It's fine to keep backwards compatibility support and to release games on all your consoles for as long as it's possible. But at some point, we need to upgrade to get the next gen experience. If the jump in power is too big, they will have to cut down on more than just resolution. They may have to remove content, just to support 10 year old hardware. But to some extent it will work, and be easier for Developers, Sony, and MS.

You have to be crazy or stupid to think these are out and out new consoles. Maybe the Scorpio but I don't know enough about that but the One S and Pro are slight (very very slight) upgrades for their respective consoles. In essence, they are a money grab in the filthiest entertainment business on the planet: gaming.

Yes I think that's a fair point. We're not going to see games with 'wow, a 128 Mario's' or 'a third screen'.

I'm still concerned that we're going to miss out on something. I guess we'll see when we compare the Switch launch to the PS4 Pro and Scorpio launch. I mean, that is a console launch versus console iterations. Keeping in mind that most launch games probably would have come out as well with a Wii U hardware iteration.

Just like developers do for PC...

The idea is that Microsoft/Sony would release a console every 3-4 years, and that the lifespan of those consoles would be 6-8 years. Development of games won't change that much, even less so since the game running on PC, and Xbox will be the same due to Windows 10 OS running on both.

Read this: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/283611/Inside_the_PlayStation_4_Pro_with_Mark_Cerny.php#tophead

“PS4 Pro is not the start of a new generation,” he said. “And that is a very good thing.”

It’s a good thing because, he argues, a new generation of consoles is defined by chaos and novelty -- new hardware with new CPU architectures, new controllers, new GPUs, and all-new ways of designing (or selling) games. Such shake-ups often have significant benefits for the game industry at large, as well as significant costs.

(...)

“We don't believe that generations are going away. They are truly healthy for the industry, and for the gaming community,” he said. “It's just that the objectives for PS4 Pro are quite different.”

@xxyetixx:

I don't think Microsoft is that dumb to bet it all on Scorpio. It's just too risky.

@killered3: they can most certainly bet it all on Scorpio. It's win win for them. Introduce a powerful badass console if it's successful and sells and delivers on its promises they are good.

If it fails they have their eggs in the Win10 basket and play any where, they can keep putting games out on that and eliminate hardware all together and exit the console industry which would be a win for them as well.

Xbox division doesn't really do much for MS.

@xxyetixx:

Why destroy the hardware department if Scorpio fails? Just scratch it off and go back to making new consoles. It's just that the way I see it, there's too many ways things can backfire badly from this idea. It's mostly speculation anyway but it does kinda sound like Microsoft is leaning towards this strategy.

But Sony can easily **** up this plan by releasing a stronger console like the PS5 and be that generational gap Scorpio is missing. A console with real exclusives and be a true sequel to its predecessor. Even where we are now, there's still a ton of room for improvement on graphics than just refinement. Pro and Scorpio are just built for refinement and that's the biggest problem I see about this. I don't want to force videogames to be stuck on this gen. I know you're saying that "eventually Scorpio will be too strong to support Xbox One" but that just doesn't make sense because it's still in the same family as an Xbox One. It IS an Xbox One. And knowing that makes me feel skeptical about this being their actual strategy because it's not a very sound one.

GTX 1080TI outdated while ps5 is coming

@xxyetixx:

http://onsmash.com/gaming/microsoft-discusses-future-of-xbox-console-cycles-after-4k-project-scorpio/

This was something else I came upon too. It doesn't sound like Phil Spencer wants the Scorpio to be a PC like thing for us console gamers. Specifically, he doesn't know for sure what will come after Scorpio but he doesn't want us to buy a console every 2 years or so.

@killered3: I disagree Scorpio is not an Xbox One. Scorpio will have games that can be only played on it, and yes they will most likely just be VR titles for now.

It doesn't matter what Sony does MS can always One up them. Xbox One is weak. By the time Scorpio releases I only see 3 years at the most support for the play games on either Xbox One or Scorpio. For MS to be successful and not stagnate game development this has to be done. No matter what the PR is saying before Scorpio drops. If this transition from Xbox One to Scorpio is successful and Ms continues this they can release a beefed up console every 3 years and Sony is gonna always be behind unless the drop something by 2019

@killered3: hardware development is expensive so I'm sure they don't want to do. I'm sure they would rather make a console that basically upgradable like a PC whether you upgrade it yourself or take it some where to get its upgrade. MS is only gonna do what Sony forces them to do. The success of PS4 is the only reason we are seeing the Scorpio.

Yea I can kinda see this thing being true.
For example they can just change the names at some point to simply Playstation and Xbox ecosystems. So then, they can simply once in a while get the next generation of the Playstation upgrade with a little bit better hardware or even let people upgrade the system themselves, like making the box super easy to open and then push the new GPU card into the slot, or a couple of ram dimms etc. What that means is that they will simply release a standard game for the Playstation and then depending on what version of hardware you have, the game will run better or maybe with downgraded graphics. For example old first generation GPU then only 1080p, a better GPU version then you could possibly run the game at 4K or even 4K @60fps.

I'd definitely would do something like that if I was Sony or Xbox, easy, fast and cheap for them. They won't have to worry about people not buying their next console or something.

Sure, it's another iteration of consoles. Although they can't call them PS5 and Xbox 4 because they are going to sell you those in a year or two.

I think everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over nothing.

All we are seeing is this latest cash grab from MS and Sony. There is a "new" thing (relatively new, seeing as the standard is still 1080p...and still is not even met most of the time) out now called 4K and they have a cheap way to make something new with 90% of the same parts/manufacturing process (which they likely still have a lot of) as the old thing, and sell it at twice the price to people.

Why? Because that is how bandwagons work. After years of failing to deliver on 1080p promises, on years of us not learning from their broken promises, I expect to see a lot of chumps buying into this latest craze that is still unproven. VR? 4K? Yeah, good luck with that on your current-plus-one-half generation console. Not at that price...

This is a mid-generation anomaly, that is all. Though I admit it is fun to speculate.

Honestly, imo, the only way for the thing everyone thinks is going to happen is for MS and Sony to go to some sort of hardware subscriber model where you pay like 300 dollars a year to lease a console on the guarentee that it can play the latest and greatest at the best resolution with the highest visuals; new hardware comes out, you send it in for your quarterly checkup and it comes back a week later all upgraded. And that is incredibly unrealistic. More likely they will just migrate more towards the PC model and let consumers do it themselves (and at that point, why use consoles at all?)

YOu're also missing a key point: how many consoles will they sell of PS5 versus PS4 Pro? Not everyone is going to get a PS4 Pro. EVERYONE (everyone that plays Playstation, at least) will get a PS5. People will wait in the cold, in lines, fight eachother....for a PS5. A PS4 Pro is not a big deal. Sony and MS would not miss out on a marketing/sales opportunity like that.

Personally I still really like the idea of static, fixed generations. Stacking upon each-other every few years. I'd rather they not just blur into eachother.