Music discussions: The Social Cafe Edition

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horgen

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#1 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
I didn't see a music discussion thread be floating around the first 50 topics so I decided to make one myself... And lock it if you don't want it Julian.

As usual I think we should start with telling what kind of music we usually listen to, what bands are our favourites and so on. But I would also like to discuss generalizations you've met/heard about the music you listen to or other genres. To start off with I got this excellent post from Something awful. Be warned though it insults a group of people, but that is not my intention with quoting it in this thread. [spoiler]

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/your-band-sucks/metal.php

I tend to scoff at those unfortunate philistines who utter things like "rap isn't real music," or "R&B is pure crap." I tend to scoff at a lot of things, but those guys get deep scoffs, from the diaphragm. Genres are far too broad and diverse to be encompassed by such generalizations, right? I want to believe that no genre is inherently bad; most of them are quickly ruined by musicians, but the genres themselves contain some spark of an ideal that can't be corrupted. I try to make myself believe that, but one thing always gets in my way: heavy metal.

I've never found the metal counterexample. If there's one metal track out there that disproves the notion that all metal is complete **** crap, I'd absolutely love to hear it. I would rest easy for the remainder of my days, comforted by the knowledge that my jolly, populist theories about music were confirmed. I've been searching for a non-horrible metal song like the Holy Grail, but whenever I find a cup to drink from, my face melts off like the Nazi in The Last Crusade.

And no, metalheads, I'm not referring to the awesome power of Dragonforce's face-melting riffs. You're an idiot.

(Let me define my terms here: bluesy hard-rock protometal like Zeppelin or Aerosmith is not what I'm talking about; that sucks for overlapping but nonidentical reasons. Nu-metal and rap metal are arguably even worse than vanilla metal, but they're not the subjects of this article. Particularly, I'm referring to anything from Iron Maiden onward: 80s British **** thrash, death metal, black metal, power metal, et cetera ad nauseum. Maybe not hair metal; in retrospect, it had its moments.)

But in my futile longing to grasp that modest chalice, I've suffered quite a bit of metal. I used to think it was my fault that I found it so unfathomable. I wondered if some mental defect kept be from enjoying this vast cornucopia of music, from the troll-worshipingest death metal to the sword-swingingest glory metal, and everything between. I couldn't understand Pantera, I didn't get Iron Maiden, and I couldn't **** stand Metallica. As I grew older and more confident in the fact that most people other than me are idiots, it became clear that the defect wasn't mine.

In all these years, I haven't seen a single satisfactory shred of evidence that heavy metal doesn't suck completely and utterly. I haven't heard any metal band isn't composed of stunted adolescence, half-assed rebellion, tongue-in-cheek stupidity, masturbatory pap, tuneless dirge, juvenile morbidity, retarded sexuality, or some nauseating combination of those elements. I haven't heard a single defense of its artistry that made a shred of sense. I haven't heard a "serious" metal song that didn't sound comical. I haven't heard a fantasy metal song with anything **** interesting to say about dragons. I haven't heard anything, seen anything, read anything or met anyone who could convince me that metal, as a whole, is not artistically bankrupt, direly uncool, and irredeemably **** dumb. Not most of it. All of it.

It's based on a kind of stupidity that I find impossible to comprehend. It looks and sounds so fundamentally opposite to art that my brain reels when I even try to consider the idea of enjoying it. It's so incomprehensible to me that I sometimes get the feeling that it's all a huge joke that everyone else is in on but me.

Yes, I'm talking about an extremely vast, overarching genre encompassing countless subgenres and thousands of bands that I've never even heard or heard of. Yes, I'm talking about something I don't understand. Yes, I'm painting the dumbest fantasy metal and the most intricate symphonic metal in the same broad stroke.

Maybe you listen to British metal from the early 80s, or you only listen to thrash, or you only listen to glory metal "ironically." I don't care. I'm saying it's all stupid as hell. I'm saying you're stupid as hell if you like it. I'm saying you're stupid as hell even if, maybe especially if, you like it even though you know it's stupid as hell.

It may seem like I'm shooting fish in a barrel here. Metal is, with a few exceptions, critically ignored and popularly derided. Aside from holdover metal stars like Metallica, the above-ground music press couldn't give a single **** about metal; it's music for misfit nerds, sociopaths, big-haired whores and mulleted heshers. Cool wouldn't touch metal with a ten foot pole, and metalheads are so hopelessly uncool that they've developed their own laughable little chic around leather and headbanging. Despite all this, people continue to defend metal as an art and a life**** Even people who "don't take metal seriously" often take it really **** seriously.

I consider myself a public servant, so it always fills my heart with pride when I turn someone away from their ****ty taste. Unfortunately, this article can't do that. Metal fans are simply too entrenched in their own art-killing quagmire to be swayed by any rational argument. Their synapses are too brutalized by bluntness to recognize subtlety ever again; real music may be forever useless to them. I'm not asking them to stop listening to metal. I'm asking them to shut the **** up about it forever.

Stop tainting our discussions. When the grown-ups are talking about real music, stay the **** out of it. If we're talking about our favorite singers, we don't care about how low your Christ-slaughtering Norwegian boyfriend can croak. If we're talking about our favorite guitarists, zip up your stupid **** mouth, because nobody gives a **** how fast your favorite metal guitar-secretary can type gibberish on a fretboard. "Pretend" that metal isn't music. "Pretend" that metal is something else altogether, and that you have nothing to add to a discussion about music, because we're talking about something entirely **** different.

I only say "pretend" because "realize" might be too strong a word for these hopeless dorks.

Anyway: just leave us alone, weirdoes. Don't even e-mail me to complain about this article. In fact, let me deflect some points you'll try to make:

Millions of people in around the world love metal.

Billions of people think those millions of people are either insane or stupid. Shall we take a vote?

You just don't understand the appeal of metal.

No, I don't, and I've become content with that. I don't understand the appeal of dressing up like a baby and pooping on oneself, either, but tons of people love it, and I don't give a Texas **** why they love it, and their explanations will fall on deaf ears. Like metalheads, adult baby dudes are just plain broken in the head, and I don't need them spreading their creepy pathology.

The metal genre is home to some technically talented musical virtuosos.

I have to laugh when I hear metalheads complain that some of the best pure musicians of our time are being ignored and neglected by the ivory-tower establishment just because they play in the metal genre. Here, it's simple: imagine if William Butler Yeats only wrote poems about dogs eating peanut butter, and if he used only the same fifteen or twenty words in every single poem. People who espouse the shredding merits of metal guitarists and the double-bass technique of metal drummers crack me the **** up. Maybe they also think books are better when they have lots of pages.

Symphonic metal is extremely sophisticated and carries on the tradition of ****cal music.

You can't tell Frank Frazetta from William Blake. Congratulations, you're stupid.

I enjoy metal because of its dark, creepy, intense aesthetic.

You have a mental age of thirteen. If your brain doesn't process metal aesthetics as purely comical, then you're truly beyond intervention. If you have even the smallest scrap of respect for any aspect of metal music, lyrics, fashion, or album cover art, you are so aesthetically stunted that you might as well be a spotty junior high kid drawing barbarian dudes with battle axes and huge **** on your trapper keeper. If you love metal for its capacity to shock old people and oversensitive Christians, you're an immature halfwit who thinks that offending people is the same as making a point.

I just like the way it sounds. You can't say your taste is better than mine, because it's subjective.

Metal is so awful that it goes far beyond questions of taste. Liking metal is a mental illness, although I'm sure you'll wear that accusation with pride (don't). It makes me wonder what the **** your parents did to you. You're sick and I can't cure you, so don't waste my time.

I don't take metal seriously, I just think it's fun.

Search deep within your soul. Is there any part of you that takes metal seriously, even a little bit? Have you ever purchased a metal album with real money for any reason other than to laugh at it? Is more than 20% of the music you listen to metal? Is there any metal band in this world that you care enough about that you'd be sad if they broke up or died in a fiery car crash? If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, please reevaluate your taste before it's too late.

As a frustrated and troubled youth, the metal community gave me a place to fit in.

Most of the worst subcultures in the world (gangs, cults, internet forums) thrive on accepting the lowest members of the social food chain. The fact that you were insufferable to anyone but metalheads doesn't mean that there's anything good about metal, it just means that dweebs tolerate other dweebs out of necessity.

I like metal, but I'm not a nerd or an idiot.

In fact, you are the worst kind of nerd or idiot: the kind that doesn't know he or she is a nerd or idiot.

But here, listen to THIS metal song. It'll change your mind.

No, dickhead, it won't, and I resent the very fact that you think I might enjoy it.

What about Ronnie James ****in Dio? You can't deny the ROCK.

No. Stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

I hope I've made myself perfectly clear. Questions or comments regarding metal can be sent straight up your ass.

[/spoiler]
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#2 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
Oh I forgot about the old music thread. It's still around somewhere.
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#3 cousin_eddy
Member since 2004 • 74681 Posts
So are we using this as the new music discussion? :?
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#4 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
Oh I forgot about the old music thread. It's still around somewhere.julian_jr
Which one do we use? :?
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#5 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="julian_jr"]Oh I forgot about the old music thread. It's still around somewhere.horgen123
Which one do we use? :?

I can find the old one if you all want that one.
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#6 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"][QUOTE="julian_jr"]Oh I forgot about the old music thread. It's still around somewhere.julian_jr
Which one do we use? :?

I can find the old one if you all want that one.

We use this one then :P
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#7 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts
You just want to have you name (as thread creator) on the board's main page all the time. :P
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#8 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
You just want to have you name (as thread creator) on the board's main page all the time. :Plancelot200
Of course I do. Since I can't be the one who locks them ;)
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#9 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="lancelot200"]You just want to have you name (as thread creator) on the board's main page all the time. :Phorgen123
Of course I do. Since I can't be the one who locks them ;)

Figures... *sighs* :P
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#10 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
Has anyone bothered to read the first post yet? :P
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#11 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
Has anyone bothered to read the first post yet? :P horgen123
Not the spoiler part yet. :P
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#12 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"]Has anyone bothered to read the first post yet? :P julian_jr
Not the spoiler part yet. :P

Read it. It so epic :P
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#13 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="julian_jr"][QUOTE="horgen123"]Has anyone bothered to read the first post yet? :P horgen123
Not the spoiler part yet. :P

Read it. It so epic :P

I'll read it eventually... :P
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#14 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
Read it now Julian :x
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#15 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
Read it now Julian :x horgen123
It's too long, and people are showing up though. :o
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#16 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"]Read it now Julian :x julian_jr
It's too long, and people are showing up though. :o

It's epic and worthy of your time :x
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#17 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="julian_jr"][QUOTE="horgen123"]Read it now Julian :x horgen123
It's too long, and people are showing up though. :o

It's epic and worthy of your time :x

But there are people around right now. :o
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#18 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
No excuse :x
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#19 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
No excuse :x horgen123
That's a big excuse since the place is still in need of revival.
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#20 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"]No excuse :x julian_jr
That's a big excuse since the place is still in need of revival.

I'm still here posting though, so will the others hopefully.
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#21 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="julian_jr"][QUOTE="horgen123"]No excuse :x horgen123
That's a big excuse since the place is still in need of revival.

I'm still here posting though, so will the others hopefully.

When one person leaves it slows down everything though. :o
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#22 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
[QUOTE="julian_jr"] When one person leaves it slows down everything though. :o

How long will it take you to read teh whole post? :P
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#23 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"][QUOTE="julian_jr"] When one person leaves it slows down everything though. :o

How long will it take you to read teh whole post? :P

You're talking to a lazy user so who knows.
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#24 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
Doesn't mean you're slow at reading...
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#25 cousin_eddy
Member since 2004 • 74681 Posts
Currently looking more into the music of Traffic..such a great old progressive band :).
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#26 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
Currently looking more into the music of Traffic..such a great old progressive band :).cousin_eddy
Never heard of before. Care to link to one of their songs on youtube?
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#27 Swanogt19
Member since 2008 • 24159 Posts
I am just now getting into Radiohead
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#28 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
I've been taking a pretty big change in music at the moment, and I'm listening now more to reggaeton type of music at the moment.
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#29 Swanogt19
Member since 2008 • 24159 Posts
hows that J?
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#30 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts
I've been taking a pretty big change in music at the moment, and I'm listening now more to reggaeton type of music at the moment. julian_jr
That's an odd choice, indeed.
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#31 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
[QUOTE="julian_jr"]I've been taking a pretty big change in music at the moment, and I'm listening now more to reggaeton type of music at the moment. lancelot200
That's an odd choice, indeed.

Well I do like to mix things up and listen to everything.
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#32 julian_jr
Member since 2007 • 83416 Posts
hows that J?Swanogt19
It's a whole different style of music although it's pretty good once you understand the rhythms.
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#33 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
I just listened to a few songs I have from Tool... I have forgotten how much I like their music.
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#34 papermariofan57
Member since 2008 • 121960 Posts

I don't have ipods, mp3, I just hear music from youtube

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#35 ChaosRyder665
Member since 2007 • 23244 Posts
Anyone here, aside from F, like Daft Punk?
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#36 double_decker
Member since 2006 • 146090 Posts
I just listened to a few songs I have from Tool... I have forgotten how much I like their music. horgen123
Yeah, I haven't bothered listening to them in forever :lol:
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#37 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts
[QUOTE="horgen123"]I just listened to a few songs I have from Tool... I have forgotten how much I like their music. double_decker
Yeah, I haven't bothered listening to them in forever :lol:

Tool is good stuff, although I'm only familiar with 10 000 Days.
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#38 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
[QUOTE="double_decker"][QUOTE="horgen123"]I just listened to a few songs I have from Tool... I have forgotten how much I like their music. lancelot200
Yeah, I haven't bothered listening to them in forever :lol:

Tool is good stuff, although I'm only familiar with 10 000 Days.

I listened to the song Rosetta Stoned and a few others. great songs :D
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#39 double_decker
Member since 2006 • 146090 Posts
Tool is good stuff, although I'm only familiar with 10 000 Days.lancelot200
Yeah, I only like a few of their songs as well.
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#40 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts
I was referring to the album to be precise. I don't think that I would another Tool album though. I'm not that interested in the band to buy more.
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#41 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
I was referring to the album to be precise. I don't think that I would another Tool album though. I'm not that interested in the band to buy more.lancelot200
I thought so, but I don't remember which songs are on which CDs, I just remember the songs I like.
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#42 NFS102
Member since 2007 • 27011 Posts

Rap is the best to me. Metal is too aggresive IMO, I used to like some of it but not anymore.

But here's the thing. There are good and bad songs in every genre, picking one genre over the other as a universal pick is basically impossible. 

Except country. Country sucks lol.

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#43 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts

Rap is the best to me. Metal is too aggresive IMO, I used to like some of it but not anymore.

But here's the thing. There are good and bad songs in every genre, picking one genre over the other as a universal pick is basically impossible. 

Except country. Country sucks lol.

NFS102
I hope you still hate Soulja boy...
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#44 NFS102
Member since 2007 • 27011 Posts

I hope you still hate Soulja boy...horgen123

Hahaha yeah of course.

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#45 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts

Rap is the best to me. Metal is too aggresive IMO, I used to like some of it but not anymore.

But here's the thing. There are good and bad songs in every genre, picking one genre over the other as a universal pick is basically impossible. 

Except country. Country sucks lol.

NFS102
You've never listen to Glam Metal, have you. :P That's not aggressive.
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#46 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts

[QUOTE="horgen123"] I hope you still hate Soulja boy...NFS102

Hahaha yeah of course.

Good boy NFS: :P
[QUOTE="NFS102"]

Rap is the best to me. Metal is too aggresive IMO, I used to like some of it but not anymore.

But here's the thing. There are good and bad songs in every genre, picking one genre over the other as a universal pick is basically impossible. 

Except country. Country sucks lol.

lancelot200
You've never listen to Glam Metal, have you. :P That's not aggressive.

Way to feminine for my taste :P
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#47 lancelot200
Member since 2005 • 61977 Posts
I was going to say Power Metal, but Glam Metal came to mind first. :P
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#48 cousin_eddy
Member since 2004 • 74681 Posts
So Sanctuary's "Into The Mirror Black" is like..one of the best thrash albums ever.
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horgen

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#49 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127731 Posts
I was going to say Power Metal, but Glam Metal came to mind first. :Plancelot200
I don't like Power Metal.. Well except a few songs. It's not my taste. Trash and well just metal like Gojira makes is what I like most.
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Swanogt19

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#50 Swanogt19
Member since 2008 • 24159 Posts
Yeah I am not a big fan of Power Metal either