David Yancey Meltzer rates WM...including one FIVE STAR match (hint: not HIAC!)

Epico/Primo vs Justin/Tyson = **1/4
Sheamus vs Bryan = DUD
Kane vs Orton = *3/4
Show vs Rhodes = *1/2
Womens match = 1/4*
Taker vs HHH = ****3/4
Ace vs Long = **1/4
Punk vs Jericho = ***3/4
Rock vs Cena = ***3/4

He gave Davey Richards vs. Mike Elgin from ROH's SINS shows the five stars. APRIL FOOLS.

Wouldn't surprise me cause Meltzer LOVES MMA, which means he LOVES Davey Richards and his pseudo-MMA style that ROH f***ing loves nowadays. I certainly don't, get the f*** outta here with this MMA crap in my pro wrestling.

I haven't watched the match but if it's anything like a Davey Richards match, it features no sells and overkill SUPER INDY DANGEROOOOUS spots. And lots of kicks.

He overrated Triple H vs Undertaker.

Wouldn't surprise me cause Meltzer LOVES MMA, which means he LOVES Davey Richards and his pseudo-MMA style that ROH f***ing loves nowadays. I certainly don't, get the f*** outta here with this MMA crap in my pro wrestling.

I haven't watched the match but if it's anything like a Davey Richards match, it features no sells and overkill SUPER INDY DANGEROOOOUS spots. And lots of kicks.

Chicago_Nut

It's mostly because Elgin is a monster in it and steals the show. But don't worry, a lot of fans are on your side. The fans s*** all over Davey/Eddie from FB 11.

He overrated Triple H vs Undertaker.

JML897

I don't think we'll ever see storytelling of this magnitude in any wrestling match ever again.

Downloading Elgin/Richards now.

I don't think we'll ever see storytelling of this magnitude in any wrestling match ever again.

Chicago_Nut

John Cena vs. Randy Orton (Retirement martch....for both men) at WM XXXX.

[QUOTE="JML897"]

He overrated Triple H vs Undertaker.

Chicago_Nut

I don't think we'll ever see storytelling of this magnitude in any wrestling match ever again.

Downloading Elgin/Richards now.

For once I almost completely agree with everything pokajabba said.

For once I almost completely agree with everything pokajabba said.

JML897

He gave Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair *** 1/2

It doesn't.

Okay I just found out, he gave The British Bulldog vs Bret Hart a **** 1/4 rating, rather than the **** 1/2 that I originally thought he gave it. The man is clearly bat-s*** insane.

He gave Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair *** 1/2

It doesn't.

Chicago_Nut

I BAITED YOU, DUDE

In all seriousness, here's what it comes down to:

Opinions.

My opinions are facts, though.

Why the BLEEPing BLEEP is Dave "who" Metlzer's opinion even discussed? Who crowned him king of crap? Not counting Neckbeards. 

Why the BLEEPing BLEEP is Dave "who" Metlzer's opinion even discussed? Who crowned him king of crap? Not counting Neckbeards. 

 

TheGm86

Let's not pretend that Meltzer is a nobody. WE are nobodies, Wrestling Observer actually matters (more so in the past). Disagree with him or not, his opinion is actually valued in the wrestling world. 

inb4****tards misinterpret my post as saying, "MELTZER IS GOD, HIS OPINION IS LAW"

MELTZER IS GOD, HIS OPINION IS LAW

Chicago_Nut

:roll:

No it's not.

[QUOTE="TheGm86"]

Why the BLEEPing BLEEP is Dave "who" Metlzer's opinion even discussed? Who crowned him king of crap? Not counting Neckbeards.

Chicago_Nut

Let's not pretend that Meltzer is a nobody. WE are nobodies, Wrestling Observer actually matters (more so in the past). Disagree with him or not, his opinion is actually valued in the wrestling world.

inb4****tards misinterpret my post as saying, "MELTZER IS GOD, HIS OPINION IS LAW"

[QUOTE="Chicago_Nut"]

[QUOTE="TheGm86"]

Why the BLEEPing BLEEP is Dave "who" Metlzer's opinion even discussed? Who crowned him king of crap? Not counting Neckbeards.

pokajabba

Let's not pretend that Meltzer is a nobody. WE are nobodies, Wrestling Observer actually matters (more so in the past). Disagree with him or not, his opinion is actually valued in the wrestling world.

inb4****tards misinterpret my post as saying, "MELTZER IS GOD, HIS OPINION IS LAW"

Okay then, do you believe in God? I don't. If you do, then then tell me EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has EVER believed in God, and I'll see if this God is worth my time.

Sounds asinine, doesn't it?

But here you go, here's a FEW wrestlers and the importance of WON in the industry

That's my point. It's not AS big as you think. As a follower of it, you obviously would think its better than it is. I reckon there could be as much people against than for it.

The God argument is bit hard to judge. Considering different religions and what not. You could say that people like to follow things, that have no logic behind it though lol. Also, there are no exact 'words' that say Dave Metzler is king of rating or whatever from those examples you gave me, except Bret Hart. It doesn't say he agree's with the rating, but that he is proud he got praise. Two different things. If I did a backflip and someone praised me for it, although I was glad I got praise, I might not agree with how they judged it in general.

I'm completely fine with not agreeing with Meltzer or people not giving a s*** about what he says. Just saying that many wrestling fans do because the Wrestling Observer has meant something to the wrestling industry. He matters more to the wrestling industry than Roger Ebert does to the movie industry, if that's a good comparison.

Lots of wrestling promoters still care about what Meltzer rates their matches. I doubt Vince cares anymore.

Also, the fact that Bret Hart and Mr Perfect never won the technical award at least once, is completely unforgivable. pokajabba

Well they did have Jushin Liger, Chris Benoit, and Dean Malenko to compete with. I'm sure Bret Hart finished in the top 5 many times. Bret probably should have won it at least once but it's hard to argue against Benoit winning it.

Dave Meltzer is a big reason indy wrestling and Puro had a big following back in the tape trading days. It was his coverage that fans appreciated. Sure you can say his star ratings are what people talk about most, but it's because of guys like Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez that wrestling fans got an inside look at the sport they love and alternatives to the crap they saw on TV.

As for the wrestling observer awards, they are fan voted and Dave Meltzer doesn't have any say whatsoever in them. So don't blame him for Bret Hart or Hennig not winning Best Technical Wrestler (but if you really think Bret Hart is the be all, end all of technical wrestler, then you need to watch some 90's puro because they make him look like half the wrestler Santino is).

And finally, star ratings are entirely arbitrary and people put stock in them because they aren't solely viewed as "this match is better than this match" but an indicator of what good is out there stuck in between all the crap.

And as for Meltzer's credentials, besides being a wrestling reporter for 20+ years, he watches more wrestling from all over the world every year than you have watched your entire life. He has the basis to form opinions based on not just what is or was good in the WWE, but compare it to everything else. It's like saying RPGs are amazing when all you've played is Blue Dragon and Infinite Undiscovery **** sucks btw) and it is the best RPG of all-time when you haven't had the knowledge or experience of much else.

BTW, just got home from picking up Xenoblade Chronicles...can't wait! Xenoblade Chronicles is another example since everyone and their grandma has been claiming it is the best JRPG of this generation because most of these people are saying there have been barely any good JRPGs and barely any coming out. These people probably haven't gotten the 30+ great JRPGs for the PSP and DS that have been released in the last how many years. Best of this generation? Have you not played Radiant Historia, Trails in the Sky, Devil Survivor, Dragon Quest IX, Ys Seven, or The World Ends With You?

While im not upset at Meltzer's rating for HHH/Taker, it was a 5 star match. Seems silly that hed be hesitant to give it the full five by a quarter star. Id like to know his reasoning for that.

HHH/Taker was just perfect in terms of everything. It encompassed everything that wrestling and storytelling is all about. They played off of so many different angles and stories that were incorporated into the story of the match itself (Taker retiring HBK, Taker's streak, HHH losing to Taker the year prior, HHH and HBK's history, Taker looking to redeem himself, Respect, etc). The near falls were done so well and i seriously thought Taker's streak was gonna end a couple times. The addition of HBK ended up being a great thing and integral part to the emotion of the match. Everything they did built up to something and made sense. Ive watched alot of matches from all kinds of eras all over the world and it's definitely up there with the top 10 best i've ever seen.

Just depresses me that it'll only be a matter of time before we stop seeing matches like these possibly ever again. The true art of storytelling is dying.

I would've also given Punk/Jericho and Rock/Cena both 4 straight up stars.

Ive watched alot of matches from all kinds of eras all over the world and it's definitely up there with the top 10 best i've ever seen._Muta

Storytelling is such an integral part in wrestling matches, but it goes to the wayside in most smark's minds in favor of "PURE WRESTLING," when they don't even f***ing know what that means.

Also, I watched Elgin vs Richards.

It was definitely overkill, but I couldn't help but be incredibly entertained by it. Still though, f***ing overkill.

Of course Nigel loved it, go figure >_>

Sad thing is, because the match wasn't "technically sound" and didn't have "pure wrestling," people would probably call that opinion a joke and say that you don't like "REAL" wrestling.

Storytelling is such an integral part in wrestling matches, but it goes to the wayside in most smark's minds in favor of "PURE WRESTLING," when they don't even f***ing know what that means.

Chicago_Nut

While I don't think Taker-HHH should be a full five stars, I do think it's one of the best matches I've ever seen. 

[QUOTE="_Muta"]Ive watched alot of matches from all kinds of eras all over the world and it's definitely up there with the top 10 best i've ever seen.Chicago_Nut

Storytelling is such an integral part in wrestling matches, but it goes to the wayside in most smark's minds in favor of "PURE WRESTLING," when they don't even f***ing know what that means.

Also, I watched Elgin vs Richards.

It was definitely overkill, but I couldn't help but be incredibly entertained by it. Still though, f***ing overkill.

Of course Nigel loved it, go figure >_>

Chicago_Nut

It's because Elgin was awesome in it.

someone explain how Richards style is MMA heavy, been watching a few a of his recent matches and dont see it (dont see the n-sell stuff either)ToTheBank

http://www.pwponderings.com/2011/08/03/roh-champion-davey-richards-discusses-his-mma-training-what-it-meant-to-win-the-roh-title-why-he-chose-wrestling-over-mma-and-says-a-lot-of-pro-wrestlers-wouldnt-last-three-seconds-in-a-real/

Not that it's a bad thing, but... well, I just don't like it. Because I don't like MMA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELOn2amIn_w#t=0m42s

WE AINT GOT NO TIME BEING FOCUSED!

[QUOTE="Chicago_Nut"]

[QUOTE="_Muta"]Ive watched alot of matches from all kinds of eras all over the world and it's definitely up there with the top 10 best i've ever seen.pokajabba

Storytelling is such an integral part in wrestling matches, but it goes to the wayside in most smark's minds in favor of "PURE WRESTLING," when they don't even f***ing know what that means.

The chairshots and specials were part of the story. The only difference between this match and any other match full of chairshots and specials is WHY they were doing it. These 2 guys were looking to WIN. It was pure competition. It wasnt even anything personal between the 2, per se, and that was proven by the awesome conclusion. It was 2 extremely seasoned professionals wanting to outdo the other. What made it so great was the emotion, the facial expressions, the selling, body language, and references to earlier matches. Its like these 2 were actually having a true rematch. That's what pro wrestling is all about. They had the crowd eating out of the palm of their hands at every near fall, every chair shot, and every time Michaels got involved because they all did what anyone would expect people to do in that stituation.

[QUOTE="_Muta"]Ive watched alot of matches from all kinds of eras all over the world and it's definitely up there with the top 10 best i've ever seen.Chicago_Nut

Storytelling is such an integral part in wrestling matches, but it goes to the wayside in most smark's minds in favor of "PURE WRESTLING," when they don't even f***ing know what that means.

Ill agree with that. Guys like Foley, Undertaker, and Bruiser Brody are just a few of the greatest workers of all time who get written off for the aforementioned reasons. Doesnt matter whether theyre using weapons, potatoing the **** out of each other, tiger bombing/lariating the **** out of each other, or putting each other in wristlocks. If its deeply told, emotional, not just a couple of guys going out there trading moves for the sake of trading moves, and above all else ENTERTAINING, it's good enough for me.

One of the reasons i loved all 45 minutes of Taker/HHH. Can't wait until 28 comes out on DVD.

[QUOTE="pokajabba"][QUOTE="Chicago_Nut"]Sad thing is, because the match wasn't "technically sound" and didn't have "pure wrestling," people would probably call that opinion a joke and say that you don't like "REAL" wrestling.

Storytelling is such an integral part in wrestling matches, but it goes to the wayside in most smark's minds in favor of "PURE WRESTLING," when they don't even f***ing know what that means.

_Muta

The chairshots and specials were part of the story. The only difference between this match and any other match full of chairshots and specials is WHY they were doing it. These 2 guys were looking to WIN. It was pure competition. It wasnt even anything personal between the 2, per se, and that was proven by the awesome conclusion. It was 2 extremely seasoned professionals wanting to outdo the other. What made it so great was the emotion, the facial expressions, the selling, body language, and references to earlier matches. Its like these 2 were actually having a true rematch. That's what pro wrestling is all about. They had the crowd eating out of the palm of their hands at every near fall, every chair shot, and every time Michaels got involved because they all did what anyone would expect people to do in that stituation.

After a month of waiting, i finally bought Wrestlemania 28 on DVD today and got to watch Taker/HHH again. Still **** amazing. Dave Meltzer or no Dave Meltzer, this was a 5 star match and one of the most epic matches of all time. On par with anything from All Japan in the mid 90's. Thats exactly what kind of match it felt like - almost a North American King's Road.