2 of the critisisms for GOW that are being overblown (host advantage)

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menduco76

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#1 menduco76
Member since 2006 • 650 Posts

Ok I know this is going to start some controversy, but lets try to be civil here.  There is one simple reason why I think host advantage is being exaggerated a bit, and I actually thought about it last night while playing. 

I tend to host games, mostly because it helps avoid people teaming up in the games I play, and I get to play games exactly the way I want to play them (number or rounds, map, etc.).  Of course, I do tend to do better as host, but Im really not that good.  I have never been great at videogames but I do enjoy them very much.  As host Ill usually get about 6 or 8 kills in a 5 round match, while if im not hosting Ill get between 3 and 5.  However, I always DO get some kills even when im not hosting, and the difference is not that big between being host and not being host (for me at least).

But the real reason why I think its being exaggerated to the point where its annoying is that people are USUALLY wrong when they try to guess who is the host.  I am usually quiet while playing, but I listen to what people say.  And I would say that about 8 times out of 10, people guess wrong.  Ill be host, then someone else will kill two people with a shotgun or not die after being shot with the shot gun, and they are automatically labeled host when in reality it is me that is the host.  Today there were 3 people in a match I was hosting that were really going at it with each other, all three of them accusing each other of being host, and not ONCE did they say to me that I was host (even though there was one instance where I might have gotten a little lucky).  Two days ago I was not hosting, I wasnt even playing particularly well, and something happened (dont remember what) and sudenly everyone was convinced I was host.  I put on my mic and told them I wasnt, but to no avail.  Everyone was convinced I was host, then I had to listen to "you must really suck cuz you are doing pretty bad even though you are host" for 7 more rounds. 

So if the host advantage was so big...if its really that big of a deal, then how is it possible that in the majority of matches I play people are so incorrect at guessing who the host is?  All I hear is "omg he is the host ahhhh" and ill be sitting there knowing full well that I am the host and that dude was just really good at the game.  If the hosts advantage was actually that big, then more people would actaully be able to tell that it is me that is hosting.  Try it out for yourself...you will see many occasions where people actaully cant accureately guess who the host is, even though they are trying really hard.  To me, that means that the host advantage is not that big.  Does it exist?  Of course it does and there is not much that can be done about it.  But I think that people are just being way too paranoid about it and really blwoing it out of proportion.  If not, then explain to me how most people are wrong about this in game where it counts.

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Rossdaboss777

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#2 Rossdaboss777
Member since 2005 • 2417 Posts
r u kidding host addvantage is horrible in gow i stoped playing it beacase of it
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menduco76

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#3 menduco76
Member since 2006 • 650 Posts

r u kidding host addvantage is horrible in gow i stoped playing it beacase of itRossdaboss777

No im not kidding.  I mean i know its there, and I know it can be bad, but all im saying is that maybe just maybe its not AS bad as people are saying.  I mean you have to stop and think about it for a second.  Seriosuly, can it actaully be THAT bad if people cant even guess who the host is most of the time?  It if was THAT bad, sholdnt it be crystal clear who the host is most of the time?  Cuz in my experience, people dont usually get it right.  So maybe, half of the time that you attribute something to host advantage, it is actually due to something ELSE.  Thats all Im saying.  Im not saying its doesnt exist.

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MDJ

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#4 MDJ
Member since 2005 • 316 Posts
I think it has to do with connection speed... The host of course has the fasted connection. (Duh.) His bullets don't run into lag, and they strike much sooner. Thats just me of course.
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menduco76

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#5 menduco76
Member since 2006 • 650 Posts

I think it has to do with connection speed... The host of course has the fasted connection. (Duh.) His bullets don't run into lag, and they strike much sooner. Thats just me of course.MDJ

no its not just you, you are absolutely right about that.  So you can actually reason, that if it is actually about connection speed then obviously the host has the best there...but lets say a dude named charlie has a 1 Mb connection and another dude named Lester has a 3 Mb connection and neither is host.  Lester kills Charlie pretty quickly even though he gets hit, and so obviously Charlie labels Lester as the host.  But he isnt, he just has a faster connection.  This might actaully be whats going on...but as you can see, 7 times out of 8 its NOT the host. 

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menduco76

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#6 menduco76
Member since 2006 • 650 Posts
If thats the case, then the problem isnt host advantage, its just plain old lag in general.  Which is something that will always be a problem with online gaming.  Try playing Table Tennis with someone that has a slow connection...its even WORSE than it is for GOW.  I stopped playing Table Tennis just for that reason. 
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mattkohl71

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#7 mattkohl71
Member since 2006 • 155 Posts

People can't instantly guess you are host because, not trying to be mean, you stated you are not a very skilled player. Of course a host that is just barely average won't have a noticeable advantage, well because they weren't that good to begin with.

Most are talking when the host is a skilled player. For the first match I ever hosted, I got 34 kills 23 downs and 5 revives. It was a 13 round match. I had twice as many points as anyone on either team. That is when the host advantage is really noticeable.

Also even the kid that is not host can still have a "Host Advantage" if he lives very close to the host (As in a school friend or neighbor) so they both will have 0 lag and be good. That explains someone doing very well, but not being host. There's also the chance that they are just having a good match as well.

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chrisark

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#8 chrisark
Member since 2003 • 326 Posts

Finally someone I agree with about the host advantage. I agree with everyone and admit its there, but it honestly doesn't seem to me or anyone I play with that big a deal, or that big a difference. I myself play better when not host, but it seems that when I am not host I am accused of being host, and when I am host it seems that its always the guy playing a little better and a little smarter. And everyone has to agree with me on this, there is always that one guy in the game your in that blames his horrible play on the "host advantage" even though everyone agree's he just sucks. And I agree there are always those sketchy gun fights between you and the host and more times then some of you would prefer you come up short, and others times you some how pull it off, and what happens?People call it luck because you beat the host when he's supposed be way better then you, and I understand its easier to say hey host advantage beat me, then it is to say good go, I'll get you next time.

All im saying is, yes the host advantage is there, but its so insignificant that I rarely see it, maybe its cause im to busy having fun to care who wins, or the fact that most of the time im to tired from work to care.

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The_Paladine

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#9 The_Paladine
Member since 2005 • 171 Posts
HERES THE DEAL WITH THE HOST THING ok, MDJ was right, the host automatically has 0 ping. his bullets do not lag (keep in mind they do not do extra damage). Everyone else must aim and take into acount the bullet lag, usually about an 1/2 an inch on ur screen if he is running with lancer. As an effect of this, if a guy is trying to dodge your bullets, and you are host, you just shoot right where he is. if your not host than u have to aim infront of him, if he swerves around then it causes more problems because u will miss. The reason why people guese wrong with the host is that if you are good at the game (without host) and u host, u will usually get first. Of course their are the people who are bad and host who dont do that well (im not gonna name names) personally i can take on 4 guys at once with host shotgun and win 50/50
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mattkohl71

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#11 mattkohl71
Member since 2006 • 155 Posts

That's what I was trying to explain. Someone that is good is fun to play with or against. But someone that is host and is good has to be on your team or instant domination most of the time.

I'm sorry Chris but I must say you are wrong. Host advantage causes a lot of big problems in the online community. Notice all the complaining haha. But the complaining has a valid reason. You are probably more of a mellow player and don't really care, but some are trying to have a competetive, intense game. And have it be fair. Not meaning to offend at all. Just presenting my argument.

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The_Paladine

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#12 The_Paladine
Member since 2005 • 171 Posts
[QUOTE="The_Paladine"]HERES THE DEAL WITH THE HOST THING ok, MDJ was right, the host automatically has 0 ping. his bullets do not lag (keep in mind they do not do extra damage). Everyone else must aim and take into acount the bullet lag, usually about an 1/2 an inch on ur screen if he is running with lancer. As an effect of this, if a guy is trying to dodge your bullets, and you are host, you just shoot right where he is. if your not host than u have to aim infront of him, if he swerves around then it causes more problems because u will miss. The reason why people guese wrong with the host is that if you are good at the game (without host) and u host, u will usually get first. Of course their are the people who are bad and host who dont do that well (im not gonna name names) personally i can take on 4 guys at once with host shotgun and win 50/50

Read my post. I personaly never go on hosts team, cause he always steals all my kills
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skivit

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#14 skivit
Member since 2006 • 987 Posts
I think it has to do with connection speed... The host of course has the fasted connection. (Duh.) His bullets don't run into lag, and they strike much sooner. Thats just me of course.MDJ
I also think its an incentive. If theres no incentive to host a match, then theres no matches for people to play so no one would play gears of war anymore.
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TheBigTicket21

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#15 TheBigTicket21
Member since 2004 • 30875 Posts
i said this last time a topic was brought up about this, but just play better, I can beat the host half of the time.
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LTomlinson21

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#16 LTomlinson21
Member since 2004 • 24423 Posts
Yeah, it's not huge, but still is noticeable, primarily in shot-gun battles. It also depends how good the host is anyway, but I usually know, as I join games when I am the second guy and of course the other guy is host. Something can be done about it, and that is not connect to someone but to a game server, like PDZ offers, I believe.
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menduco76

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#17 menduco76
Member since 2006 • 650 Posts

People can't instantly guess you are host because, not trying to be mean, you stated you are not a very skilled player. Of course a host that is just barely average won't have a noticeable advantage, well because they weren't that good to begin with.

Most are talking when the host is a skilled player. For the first match I ever hosted, I got 34 kills 23 downs and 5 revives. It was a 13 round match. I had twice as many points as anyone on either team. That is when the host advantage is really noticeable.

Also even the kid that is not host can still have a "Host Advantage" if he lives very close to the host (As in a school friend or neighbor) so they both will have 0 lag and be good. That explains someone doing very well, but not being host. There's also the chance that they are just having a good match as well.

mattkohl71

Yes I said im not that good, but I didnt say I was bad.  5 to 8 kills (either hosting or not hosting) in a 5 round match is not bad at all.  Its probably about average.  If you are getting 2 kills EVERY round, then you are good.  Im just a bit below that. But the thing is, people automatically say that the person with the most kills is the host when he is not, even after going head to head with them and killing them.    I said im not that good, but I also said there isnt a big difference in how many kills I get between when I host and dont host.  When i host i usually get around 6 to 8 in a 5 round match...if I dont host i get between 3 and 5 or maybe even 4 to 6.  I rarely if ever get less than 4 kills in a 5 round match. I usually have more downs than kills becase the Lancer is my main weapon and I didnt even bring that up before.   Then again, there have been times that ive gotten 10 kills while not hosting because the opposing team was not good at all.  So if the first time you hosted you got 30 something kills it doesnt tell me much.  One match doesnt mean anything, thats why I said how many kills i get on average.

Yeah the simple explanation is that I suck so people think that Im not host.  But what about when people say that I AM the host when im not?  That answer does not work there, but the question is still the same.  I get less kills when im not hosting...my skill level doesnt change...yet there have been occasions when something happens and people say im host when im not. 

The more people talk about this, the more im convinced that in reality people dont really know much about it and are exaggerating it.  No matter what, the issue is greatly exaggerated because thats all I ever hear while playing a game.  Like I said before, if it was such a big deal, people would get it right more often.  Seriously it would be much more obvious who was host if it was. 

 

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LTomlinson21

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#18 LTomlinson21
Member since 2004 • 24423 Posts
i said this last time a topic was brought up about this, but just play better, I can beat the host half of the time.TheBigTicket21
Even if they are skilled and are host, they aren't unbeatable. No said they were unbeatable. It's just at times they can have an advantage which lessens the odds.
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Messiah_xXx

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#19 Messiah_xXx
Member since 2006 • 778 Posts

host advantage = people who cant kill S#$%

or if you have a crappy connection and everyone else lags thats the only real host advantage

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TheBigTicket21

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#20 TheBigTicket21
Member since 2004 • 30875 Posts
[QUOTE="TheBigTicket21"]i said this last time a topic was brought up about this, but just play better, I can beat the host half of the time.LTomlinson21
Even if they are skilled and are host, they aren't unbeatable. No said they were unbeatable. It's just at times they can have an advantage which lessens the odds.

well life isn't fair, you still gotta keep fighting
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V4LENT1NE

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#21 V4LENT1NE
Member since 2006 • 12901 Posts
I dont even need to say anything, just watch.
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killercuts3

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#22 killercuts3
Member since 2003 • 3355 Posts
It is not a host advantage so much as it's a guest disadvantage. The host gets no lag or graphical glithces when shooting, so everytime he shoots at someone his reticule will be where he shoots. Meanwhile the guests may appear to be hitting someone but really there shots are off their reticule.
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PaRkOuR-rUlEs

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#23 PaRkOuR-rUlEs
Member since 2006 • 189 Posts
Suer just the other day i downed the host with one shotgun fire, with no lag and he shot me at the same time. Just take it as the host most of the time, but not all of the time, is good.
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PaRkOuR-rUlEs

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#24 PaRkOuR-rUlEs
Member since 2006 • 189 Posts
Sure just the other day i downed the host with one shotgun fire, with no lag and he shot me at the same time. Just take it as the host most of the time, but not all of the time, is good.PaRkOuR-rUlEs
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#25 o_sausage
Member since 2006 • 5919 Posts
r u kidding host addvantage is horrible in gow i stoped playing it beacase of itRossdaboss777
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Goron24

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#26 Goron24
Member since 2005 • 1043 Posts

r u kidding host addvantage is horrible in gow i stoped playing it beacase of itRossdaboss777
hahahahaha... wow, mature people suck it up, play the game, own the host

Plus as iv always said there are a bunch of variables to consider when talking about "host advantage"

1.player skill - if there good then it isnt really the advantage

2.team skill - if you have crappy players you have a lesser chance of survival because of no backup

3.map rotation - maps the host/you are good on

4.gun placemenets - the host can place any gun he wants anywhere, guns he likes, guns you may not

5.number of rounds - more rounds = greater #of kills (duh) but in 9 round matches 20 kills isnt huuuge

Oh and i love ppl who whine about the host advantage and dont give any reason for it other than "the host is always good!!" maybe good players like to host games so they can play with friends or control the quality of the game ie. kick crappy or disruptive players?

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menduco76

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#27 menduco76
Member since 2006 • 650 Posts

I dont even need to say anything, just watch.V4LENT1NE

Ive seen that video before, and its crap.  You dont know what the conditions are for the match being taped there.  Sure, if the guy has a really crappy connection and is hosting, then maybe it will look like that.  But in most cases, it isnt that bad.  How many many matches have you been in where the lag was that bad?  My guess is not many.  cuz you know what?  I have NEVER seen a match that bad, and I have played in a lot of matches. 

Also, right off the bat you see a Cog trying to shoot a Locust.  Presumably the Cog is not the host.  If you have any kind of attention skills, you will notice that that the Cog is not even aiming at the Locust.  The aim indicater is not even red, and the Cog empties a whole clip on the Locust and doesnt kill it.  So whats the point???

That video is just another example of people exaggerating the whole issue.  Because what is in that video is not representative of what actaully happens most of the time.  Its an extreme case of lag, and most lag you see is no where near that level.  I have actually never seen anything that bad before I saw that video.  So im not impressed.

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Goron24

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#28 Goron24
Member since 2005 • 1043 Posts

even when im not hosting my bullets still hit the guy almost right on time whoever made that video host or not has a crappy connection

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jdknight21

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#29 jdknight21
Member since 2006 • 3282 Posts

Here's my opinion and experience on host advantage in the game.  I don't believe it is overblown.  Everyone admits the game has issues but still let's it slide or 'deals with it'.  I was very very high on this game until the update.  Still kind of disappoints me....I'm going to go cry in the corner now :cry:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25366505

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deactivated-5f033ecf40fed

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#30 deactivated-5f033ecf40fed
Member since 2004 • 2665 Posts
My games, as host, have very little bullet-lag because of the quality of my connection. Honestly, people need to stop complaining about it. The most frustrating thing is when certain people get killed they'll scream 'HOST' or 'UHHH THE LAG' or some other bull. Yet, other rounds they'll get two or three kills. Sometimes you die, learn to deal with it.
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V4LENT1NE

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#31 V4LENT1NE
Member since 2006 • 12901 Posts

[QUOTE="V4LENT1NE"]I dont even need to say anything, just watch.menduco76

Ive seen that video before, and its crap. You dont know what the conditions are for the match being taped there. Sure, if the guy has a really crappy connection and is hosting, then maybe it will look like that. But in most cases, it isnt that bad. How many many matches have you been in where the lag was that bad? My guess is not many. cuz you know what? I have NEVER seen a match that bad, and I have played in a lot of matches.

Also, right off the bat you see a Cog trying to shoot a Locust. Presumably the Cog is not the host. If you have any kind of attention skills, you will notice that that the Cog is not even aiming at the Locust. The aim indicater is not even red, and the Cog empties a whole clip on the Locust and doesnt kill it. So whats the point???

That video is just another example of people exaggerating the whole issue. Because what is in that video is not representative of what actaully happens most of the time. Its an extreme case of lag, and most lag you see is no where near that level. I have actually never seen anything that bad before I saw that video. So im not impressed.


Boo hoo, the video is realistic, notice the guy at the end totally owning the entire team with the shotty, that happens most time with the host, I have played matches where the host wont even use the shotty because he said it was far to strong, in a way he is right.
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SymphonicWaves

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#32 SymphonicWaves
Member since 2006 • 832 Posts
The host advantage is definately there, especially on smaller stages. It's a big thing, it's why I only host. I hate doing everything right against the host, only to be taken down.
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CradleXX

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#33 CradleXX
Member since 2005 • 2820 Posts
I agree completely
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ninjaxams

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#34 ninjaxams
Member since 2004 • 7500 Posts
Yeah, its there. I don't play gears online partly because of it. That, and the community consists of a bunch of 12 year olds calling each other "noobs".
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SymphonicWaves

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#35 SymphonicWaves
Member since 2006 • 832 Posts
Yeah, its there. I don't play gears online partly because of it. That, and the community consists of a bunch of 12 year olds calling each other "noobs".ninjaxams
Who quit the second they get killed.
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ellokodejerez

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#36 ellokodejerez
Member since 2005 • 187 Posts
I do think host advantage isnt fair. Im not that good at GOW and every time I play I get killed by the host easily.
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#37 Em-Four
Member since 2004 • 148 Posts
I've played my fair share of Gears and Halo 2 online, and have never had a moment in my game play where I thought "I'm only losing cause this dude's hosting". To me, hosting is just another excuse to blame a loss on, same with "screen watching" back in the days of split screen, and lag to a server on games hosted by a company. I've yet to feel the need to host a gears game yet, except to get the achievement, which I don't have anyway. So I'm sure it gives someone a slight advantage, oh well, I've never had it be a noticeable difference. I also never use my mic unless playing with my friends, it's rather annoying otherwise.
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jdknight21

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#38 jdknight21
Member since 2006 • 3282 Posts

My games, as host, have very little bullet-lag because of the quality of my connection. Honestly, people need to stop complaining about it. The most frustrating thing is when certain people get killed they'll scream 'HOST' or 'UHHH THE LAG' or some other bull. Yet, other rounds they'll get two or three kills. Sometimes you die, learn to deal with it.The_Fell_One
It can't just be your connection though.  I upstream 2-5 Mbps and when I host I absolutely destroy people most of the time.  The thing was, it was either too hard, or when I hosted too easy.  There were a few even games, but it truly has the worst lag of any shooter I've played on the 360 yet.  If it weren't for FIFA '06 it would have the worst lag of any game yet.  Call it complaining, it is just my opinion.  I quit complaining awhile ago and just gave my opinion and what I felt about what the game had become after moving on from the game.  I think people have the right to say what they will about the host lag and shoddy hit detection, because it can be that bad at times. 

Is having dedicated servers and server side detection really so much to ask for when we get a game that if it had it would be on a totally different level of most other on-line games?  CS has had it for years, and things like this is what has made Gears just mediocre.

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#39 SymphonicWaves
Member since 2006 • 832 Posts
I quit complaining about the host advantage when I became the host. I'll take advantage of it until epic fixes it, IF they fix it. But those damn QUITTERS!!!!
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Tbonesteak87105

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#40 Tbonesteak87105
Member since 2005 • 25 Posts

Uhhh i don't think anybody else touched upon this previously, but host has the DISADVANTAGE of getting blood over thier screen which i find is quite annoying.  This may not completely offset the 0 ping, but somtimes i'll start shooting at a pillar instead of a person because of so much blood over my screen.

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Bombed420

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#41 Bombed420
Member since 2002 • 230 Posts

[QUOTE="MDJ"]I think it has to do with connection speed... The host of course has the fasted connection. (Duh.) His bullets don't run into lag, and they strike much sooner. Thats just me of course.menduco76

no its not just you, you are absolutely right about that. So you can actually reason, that if it is actually about connection speed then obviously the host has the best there...but lets say a dude named charlie has a 1 Mb connection and another dude named Lester has a 3 Mb connection and neither is host. Lester kills Charlie pretty quickly even though he gets hit, and so obviously Charlie labels Lester as the host. But he isnt, he just has a faster connection. This might actaully be whats going on...but as you can see, 7 times out of 8 its NOT the host.



LOL Lester and Charlie, u gotta be white.
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Goron24

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#42 Goron24
Member since 2005 • 1043 Posts

Think about this if the host advantage IS as big as you say it is. would epic not have noticed and responeded quickly?

since i dont think you can answer this on your own yes epic would have responded right away and started to work to fix it. your getting killed by a player of similar or better skill/reflexes and i have 3 words for you

GET OVER IT!

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masterconker25

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#43 masterconker25
Member since 2006 • 266 Posts
would everyone just shut up about host advantage already. it is so annoying. get over it and enjoy the game. if u wanna have an "advantage", host a damn game.
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ShadowJinx

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#44 ShadowJinx
Member since 2006 • 33 Posts
I love GOW online but I have to honest, I have NEVER been in an online GOW match where my bullets didnt get almost a half second of lag, and no that is not an exaggeration and I've played 2-300 matches. And sometimes i try to host but noone comes even after 5 or 10 minutes, in whice case I've decided I can live with the horrid lag.
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w4rgasm

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#45 w4rgasm
Member since 2005 • 1253 Posts
Who cares about a host advantage... if you care so much stop playing online or host your own games. The game is meant to have fun, and if you want to **** and moan about it, then just leave... there's no point in complaining about something that won't be changed.
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Superbustacap

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#47 Superbustacap
Member since 2004 • 10663 Posts
It's true that whenever someone gets killed in one shot they call them the host.  It seems that I'm wrong but in reality some teams have 2-4 xboxes in 1 house (nerds) so they can all use the host connection and win.  It's true and it's almost impossible to win.  The only thing I don't understand is why some hosts are literally impossible to kill.  One guy I played a 12 round match with would kill you in 1 shot anytime you got within 7 feet of him.  One guy also mad it lag horribly for everyone in the party and he was the only one with kills.
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Superbustacap

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#48 Superbustacap
Member since 2004 • 10663 Posts

Think about this if the host advantage IS as big as you say it is. would epic not have noticed and responeded quickly?

since i dont think you can answer this on your own yes epic would have responded right away and started to work to fix it. your getting killed by a player of similar or better skill/reflexes and i have 3 words for you

GET OVER IT!

Goron24


There's no way you can fix host advantage you noob.  As long as 1 player hosts a game he will have a 50% better chance of killing you.  Sometimes more.
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SymphonicWaves

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#49 SymphonicWaves
Member since 2006 • 832 Posts
I just hosted a game. by the 4th round I had 14 kills.. I killed pretty much everybody. 23 I think by the time I finished. My whole team quit but one since I killed everyone so fast, and 2 people on the other team quit, so 2 on 2. I started losing when it was 2 on 3 though since my "partner" was absolute garbage.
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Superbustacap

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#50 Superbustacap
Member since 2004 • 10663 Posts
I can't believe that literally every single game I play by myself I have the most kills on my team.  I've never been beaten my a random person on my team that I can remember.