Microsoft explains why we have to pay for Xbox Live

Fans and analysts have long debated on the topic of why consumers must pay for Microsoft's online service Xbox Live while Sony's PlayStation Network users get their access for free. This time, we're getting some official explanations.

As Gamepro points out, in a recent podcast of Microsoft's Gamerscore Blog team, they gave a reason as to why their subscribers need to shell out US$ 50 a year to get on Xbox Live. Representing the company were Chris Paladino of the Xbox Live Community Team and PR Manager Michael Wolf.

Wolf says he pays US$ 100 a month for cable TV, but says "frankly, I spend more time playing online than I do watching TV nowadays, it feels like. So, you're getting a lot of value for $ 50 a year, in my opinion."

He also explains that with the sheer number of options that Live carries and the satisfaction that players get from their system, the value is well justified. With the online play that involves cross-platform competition, Wolf says Live wins outright.

For his part, Paladino says "there are bandwidth costs, there are things that go above and beyond. I think it goes back to this unified system."

"We have to have voice communication, text communication, now we're doing cross-platform. There's Marketplace, there are demos, and all these things don't just mystically hover around that you can pull them out of the ether," he concludes.

My thoughts personally?

Weak excuses.

Silver account gives you the 'unified system' features, and all Gold gives is online play. No dedicated servers, nice lag (here in OZ), and glitching. Wonderful. And we PAY.

GRAH.

Gets on my nerves. Guess its because of my PC gaming tendancies. Online gaming should be FREE not subscription based. MMOs are an execption as the devs continue matinence, mods + admins and the HUGE amount of dedicated servers hosted.

Live is a rip-off... but MS has the games i want to play so i'm stuck paying for it.

no one can justify that Live is worth paying a dime for.

Well im still yet to renew my Gold Sub, even though ive had my Xbox for over 2 months.....

I mean hell, I COULD pay for a gold sub, but I can get another game.

Hell I bought (in Aussie Dollars) Crackdown $50, PDZ $25, SC Double agent $50, Burnout Revenge $30.... And XBL Gold costs $80 freaking dollards.

If Sony Online catches up, Msoft better re-think their subscription idea.....

And introducing Gold to PC gamers. No wonder they deserve so much hostility.

My personal opinion: paying is a good thing for the simple reason of keeping some of the lifeless ******s that love to ruin the online experience for everybody else. Pretty annoying when you're having a good game and somebody quits or runs their mouth and doesn't care because it's free. Sure some paying customers do it anyway, but at least with a fee it reduces it somewhat. ditcohomies

i guess you don't play Gears, huh?

[QUOTE="ditcohomies"]My personal opinion: paying is a good thing for the simple reason of keeping some of the lifeless ******s that love to ruin the online experience for everybody else. Pretty annoying when you're having a good game and somebody quits or runs their mouth and doesn't care because it's free. Sure some paying customers do it anyway, but at least with a fee it reduces it somewhat. c0mplex

i guess you don't play Gears, huh?

:lol:

[QUOTE="ditcohomies"]My personal opinion: paying is a good thing for the simple reason of keeping some of the lifeless ******s that love to ruin the online experience for everybody else. Pretty annoying when you're having a good game and somebody quits or runs their mouth and doesn't care because it's free. Sure some paying customers do it anyway, but at least with a fee it reduces it somewhat. c0mplex

i guess you don't play Gears, huh?

It dosent justify a Gold sub though ;)

[QUOTE="c0mplex"]

[QUOTE="ditcohomies"]My personal opinion: paying is a good thing for the simple reason of keeping some of the lifeless ******s that love to ruin the online experience for everybody else. Pretty annoying when you're having a good game and somebody quits or runs their mouth and doesn't care because it's free. Sure some paying customers do it anyway, but at least with a fee it reduces it somewhat. skrat_01

i guess you don't play Gears, huh?

It dosent justify a Gold sub though ;)

Gears is fun... and i definitely have a blast playing it. but no one can deny that there are people playing this game that live for the misery of others.

This same discussion happens on the forums for every major MMPORG too, andevery major online fee service for any platform or utility.

Any dynamic online 'service' has to hire people to admin it, update it, maintain it, and everythign else. Those people can't work for free. The money to pay them has to come from somewhere...

So? Gamespot anyone? Any other forum? So we need to pay? Right. Same goes for every other PC online game..? Riiight.

I'd wager if MS made live free, and continued to offerupdates, support, connectivity, and bandwidth to all the Xbox user in the world, it would end up bankrupt within the year

Haha one of the biggest corporations in the world, bankrupt because of Live :lol:

You need to remember, you arent just connecting to your friends xbox over a lan cable you paid $5 for and the only admin necessary is setting up the ip's. You are connecting to a network that thousands of others are connecting to at the same time, with potential problems arising every few minutes all day every day, new content added regularly,etc etc

Umm yea its the same with the INTERNET or ANY OTHER GAME. Serious :P

Live is no different than any MMO. Who do you think makes and adds all theartwork and copy for new content? WHo do you think maintins to live servers that handle all the database info? It's doesnt all magically appear out of thin air...

How is it no different from an MMO? Msoft DONT HOST ANY dedicated game servers. They host Live profile servers. Big WHOOP. Gamespot have their own servers. So does anyone hosting anything on the intenrnet.

H_Cumberdale

Besides Msoft royalties from each game sold, in game advertising, console sales duh*, development kits ect. ect. ect.

Besides how can you justify all that when Sony does the same for free... And Nintendo.

Hell While im on a roll - MICROTRANSACTIONS. Msoft + Sony have single handedly MILKED the HELL out of it. Thank god for PC gaming.

what pisses me off is that we didnt really get an explanation for why we have to pay the yearly fee, even though i am pretty much okay with the cost, and all he said was why it was a good dealgotrice415510

They cant properly justify the cost. Not when everyone else does the same for free.

Its defitnaly quite the joke.

The explanation isnt even a proper one. All the 'great things' about XBL are free. Gold only allows you play online....

This reminds me of why I didn't want to get an Xbox 360 in the first place: Bill Gates is too freaking rich and thinks he's the best and can charge for anything. After finally getting one however, I soon realized a very important fact: Microsoft DOES have the best console out there right now, and the biggest variety of games, and $50 ayear is next to nothing to ensure that Microsoft will continue to go the extra mile for its fans. I mean, which would you rather play: any of the 360's excellent shooters including Gears and Halo for $50 a year, or Nintendo's lineup of Pokemon and the soon upcoming Mario soccer game for free? The PS3may not have much going for itright now, but it has potential, and when/if its time comes, I guess everyone will have to personally weigh the options for themselves, and Microsoft will hopefully reconsider the price. But for now, the 360 rules lol

Wow. I honestly didn't want to read all this an insult anyone, so please bare with me on this. But $50 a year isn't bad. You are paying $60 for a game. Live costs less than 1 game, in a whole year's worth. Stop complainning. If you don't want to pay....then don't. Go back to your Pc gaming where it's free. Go to a PS3. It costs money to play on Xbox Live....deal with it. Pay....or go away. You people are complaining about Live costs, when there are people out there working at Mcdonalds trying to start a life. You have it so good paying only $50 a year, when there are people on thsi planet who can't even have that option to begin with. Man, it must be hard to be you, the only one on the planet with problems. Welp, I'm going to go float around in my sea of perfection. /sarcasm

Judging by your repsonse, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you have no first hand knowledge of what it takes to run a subscription based service or any idea about how much work is involved in maintaining servers of any kind... would I be correct?H_Cumberdale

Hell my dad is the Managing Director of 'Pacfic Internet - Australia. lucky me.

The only thing ' that is truly subscription based' about XBL is the storage of Live profiles on multiple servers, and the channeling of communications from Xbox to server - or Xbox.

Sony does this for free, as do Nintendo. Mosft offer the use of their servers + network for FREE on Silver.

Maintaining servers is only a justification for large dedicated ones, which are host to heavy network traffic. If you had noticed there are NO dedicated servers hosting games in XBL. NONE. Its all userbased. Wonderful.

The charging of paying to play online is not justified.

Hell I can boot up CS:S and there are hundreds of dedicated lag free servers - for free.

Valve offers community support, constant Steam and game updates for free, while hosting files and a user database + steam network. NO SUBSCRIPTION.

I think it's complete effking hullshing. I mean, the games sold here in Australia are already expensive enough and I don't earn $500 Bucks every week in my salary(don't ask). They should really make the games free, I hate paying for the microsoft points just to download boring, lame live arcade games and maps for some games when I could just download them free off the net if they're PC compatable games, which not all of them are. The point is, it's just so damn expensive for points here, like 30 Bucks for 1500 Points, 50 Bucks for 3 Months when I could just buy a classic game or something.

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Some words aren't ment to be read. They're ment to be a umm, something....Alpha172

but i wanna kno why we have to pay for it, i kno the game demos and downloads arent being made for free but playstation makes all their downloadable content for freegotrice415510

PSN is also getting ready to release Home and although it should be great fun for players, it is the perfect atmosphere to earn advertising dollars. Sony has already said they expect those advertising dollars to be their 2nd biggest money generator (first being money straight from users). Home has moving billboards everywhere, just waiting for some company like Geico to pay Sony money to play their commercials on said billboards.

XBL is not advertiser based, it is subscriber based. It is the same reason you pay for a service like HBO or Showtime while getting CBS and FOX for free. One is advertiser based, one gets rid of the comercials but has to make up that money from subscribers.

Before you say to me "but XBL has advertising", take note that XBL has no non gaming related advertising that does not give you something for free. If it's a movie, a free theme and gamerpic pack follow. Right now the only real advertisment on the service is for McDonalds Burgercon, but to get that advertising space they had to give us a free movie download.

If you read this, spread it on dang it, because no one seems to understand the concept that they have to get the money from somewhere, it's just a matter of who they get it from ;)

Actually Mosft generate a HUGE profit from Microtransactions.... Hell almost everything other than most Demos have a price tag.. Eww too capitalist :P

Advertising has to be limited, but most is simply self promotion.

why are people saying that Nintendo is free online? the only thing Nintendo has that is online game playing is the DS, and that doesnt even hold a candle to the 360, or even the ps3

I think it's complete effking hullshing. I mean, the games sold here in Australia are already expensive enough and I don't earn $500 Bucks every week in my salary(don't ask). They should really make the games free, I hate paying for the microsoft points just to download boring, lame live arcade games and maps for some games when I could just download them free off the net if they're PC compatable games, which not all of them are. The point is, it's just so damn expensive for points here, like 30 Bucks for 1500 Points, 50 Bucks for 3 Months when I could just buy a classic game or something.

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Some words aren't ment to be read. They're ment to be a umm, something....Alpha172

Well if the arcade games are boring and lame to you, WHY ARE YOU BUYING THEM????? Do you know what would happen if they made the games free?? No one would make any. Would you as a game developer want to make a game just out of the kindness of your heart to give away free to everyone??????

If you can get it free on PC, do it. I'm sorry you live in AU and things are more expensive but please be reasonable.

Actually Mosft generate a HUGE profit from Microtransactions.... Hell almost everything other than most Demos have a price tag.. Eww too capitalist :P

Advertising has to be limited, but most is simply self promotion.

skrat_01

Yeah because the companies that actually make the games/downloads don't see any of that money /sarcasm

And what do you mean "most" demos, what demo did you have to pay for???

[QUOTE="Alpha172"]I think it's complete effking hullshing. I mean, the games sold here in Australia are already expensive enough and I don't earn $500 Bucks every week in my salary(don't ask). They should really make the games free, I hate paying for the microsoft points just to download boring, lame live arcade games and maps for some games when I could just download them free off the net if they're PC compatable games, which not all of them are. The point is, it's just so damn expensive for points here, like 30 Bucks for 1500 Points, 50 Bucks for 3 Months when I could just buy a classic game or something.

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Some words aren't ment to be read. They're ment to be a umm, something...._koolgirl_

Well if the arcade games are boring and lame to you, WHY ARE YOU BUYING THEM????? Do you know what would happen if they made the games free?? No one would make any. Would you as a game developer want to make a game just out of the kindness of your heart to give away free to everyone??????

If you can get it free on PC, do it. I'm sorry you live in AU and things are more expensive but please be reasonable.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Actually Mosft generate a HUGE profit from Microtransactions.... Hell almost everything other than most Demos have a price tag.. Eww too capitalist :P

Advertising has to be limited, but most is simply self promotion.

_koolgirl_

Yeah because the companies that actually make the games/downloads don't see any of that money /sarcasm

And what do you mean "most" demos, what demo did you have to pay for???

I havent bought any demos... Hell im still yet to pay for anything on XBL.... A priced one? Lost Planet multiplayer Demo had a price tag a while back.

Of course the devs 'see the money', where did you pull that from? So does the publishers and Mosft - who get wonderful royalties per game sold.

[QUOTE="_koolgirl_"]

[QUOTE="Alpha172"]I think it's complete effking hullshing. I mean, the games sold here in Australia are already expensive enough and I don't earn $500 Bucks every week in my salary(don't ask). They should really make the games free, I hate paying for the microsoft points just to download boring, lame live arcade games and maps for some games when I could just download them free off the net if they're PC compatable games, which not all of them are. The point is, it's just so damn expensive for points here, like 30 Bucks for 1500 Points, 50 Bucks for 3 Months when I could just buy a classic game or something.

---------------------------

Some words aren't ment to be read. They're ment to be a umm, something....Alpha172

Well if the arcade games are boring and lame to you, WHY ARE YOU BUYING THEM????? Do you know what would happen if they made the games free?? No one would make any. Would you as a game developer want to make a game just out of the kindness of your heart to give away free to everyone??????

If you can get it free on PC, do it. I'm sorry you live in AU and things are more expensive but please be reasonable.

And that bloody massive EB sale distanced the prices even further.

Hell we dont even have any HD content. Compared to the U.S marketplace ours sucks. Not to mention we seem to get the most lag out of any country on XBL during games. Jeez im on a 1500k connection, you would think that would be fine.

[QUOTE="_koolgirl_"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Actually Mosft generate a HUGE profit from Microtransactions.... Hell almost everything other than most Demos have a price tag.. Eww too capitalist :P

Advertising has to be limited, but most is simply self promotion.

skrat_01

Yeah because the companies that actually make the games/downloads don't see any of that money /sarcasm

And what do you mean "most" demos, what demo did you have to pay for???

I havent bought any demos... Hell im still yet to pay for anything on XBL.... A priced one? Lost Planet multiplayer Demo had a price tag a while back.

Of course the devs 'see the money', where did you pull that from? So does the publishers and Mosft - who get wonderful royalties per game sold.

They made you guys pay for the Lost Planet Demo?? Here in the states, NONE of the demos carry a price tag. I guess you guys are getting screwed, sorry.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="_koolgirl_"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Actually Mosft generate a HUGE profit from Microtransactions.... Hell almost everything other than most Demos have a price tag.. Eww too capitalist :P

Advertising has to be limited, but most is simply self promotion.

_koolgirl_

Yeah because the companies that actually make the games/downloads don't see any of that money /sarcasm

And what do you mean "most" demos, what demo did you have to pay for???

I havent bought any demos... Hell im still yet to pay for anything on XBL.... A priced one? Lost Planet multiplayer Demo had a price tag a while back.

Of course the devs 'see the money', where did you pull that from? So does the publishers and Mosft - who get wonderful royalties per game sold.

They made you guys pay for the Lost Planet Demo?? Here in the states, NONE of the demos carry a price tag. I guess you guys are getting screwed, sorry.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="_koolgirl_"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Actually Mosft generate a HUGE profit from Microtransactions.... Hell almost everything other than most Demos have a price tag.. Eww too capitalist :P

Advertising has to be limited, but most is simply self promotion.

_koolgirl_

Yeah because the companies that actually make the games/downloads don't see any of that money /sarcasm

And what do you mean "most" demos, what demo did you have to pay for???

I havent bought any demos... Hell im still yet to pay for anything on XBL.... A priced one? Lost Planet multiplayer Demo had a price tag a while back.

Of course the devs 'see the money', where did you pull that from? So does the publishers and Mosft - who get wonderful royalties per game sold.

They made you guys pay for the Lost Planet Demo?? Here in the states, NONE of the demos carry a price tag. I guess you guys are getting screwed, sorry.

But in terms of prices on Aussie XBL, we certainly are being jibbed.

See, I can't really argue with you guys because apparantly it changes from country to country.

Do you guys get all the "bringing it home" coverage during E3? Just curious.

Our arcade games vary in price from 400 points up to 1200 points (5-15 US dollars), depends on the game. If it is different for you, sorry.

Add on to that, to be perfectly honest, if I were you guys, I would complain on the official boards. Make a topic like 'Austraila getting screwed" or the like.

If there is one thing I have come to realise, MS treats people it thinks it may lose better than it's regular customer. For instance, a friend of mine was 2 days out of warranty when his 360 went out, had a replacement within a week (I assume to keep him as a customer), while I, someone who paid for the 2 year extended warranty from launch usually has to wait 2-3 weeks to get my system back. I guess they figure I paid for the warranty so I'm not going anywhere.

Make your voice heard somewhere where it matters!! You may be surprised at the result ;)

50 Bucks a year is nothing people. Assume you play XBL 3 hours a day everyday. thats 3*365=1095 hours. Now to cover the cost of it hourly we take the 50 bucks and divide that by your hourly gaming. So, 50/1095=4.6 cents an hour. Now, you pay upwards of 10 dollars to view a movie in theatres, which is 2 hours of enjoyment. Clearly XBL is worth its $50 price tag.

Add on to that, to be perfectly honest, if I were you guys, I would complain on the official boards. Make a topic like 'Austraila getting screwed" or the like.

If there is one thing I have come to realise, MS treats people it thinks it may lose better than it's regular customer. For instance, a friend of mine was 2 days out of warranty when his 360 went out, had a replacement within a week (I assume to keep him as a customer), while I, someone who paid for the 2 year extended warranty from launch usually has to wait 2-3 weeks to get my system back. I guess they figure I paid for the warranty so I'm not going anywhere.

Make your voice heard somewhere where it matters!! You may be surprised at the result ;)

_koolgirl_

Besides here is a rundown on Live Gold Sub in Australia.

12 months of Live GOLD in OZ:

$89.95

http://www.ebgames.com.au/xbox/product.cfm?ID=6375

How much in USD?

$76.35

I mean WTF.

Look at the PS3. $599 in the US, $999 in Australia= $847USD!!!!

$60 USD for a new game? Thats $70 AUD

Instead we get charged $120 AUD. (101 USD)

I think $50 is worth it for Live Gold. It's just a couple of bucks a month, and I like to have the option of playing online if I want to (even if there are a lot of jackasses on there). I don't have a problem with Microsoft charging for the service. Running the service does cost money, and if Microsoft isn't willing to take that as a necessary expense, that is their decision. So long as customers feel like they are getting a good deal (and the numbers seem to indicate that's the case) I don't see much to complain about. I'm not a huge fan of the microtransactions (although I've bought a few of them, mostly for Oblivion), particularly the point buying system. But they're minor quibbles.

I can certainly understand why international users are pissed off. I don't understand how they can charge more in other countries. Granted, since the service is operated in the US, there may be regulatory reasons why they have to charge more, but I can't imagine that's the case.

All in all, though, the service seems great to me. Yeah, I'd love to have the service free, but it seems easily worth the $50 to me.

They cant properly justify the cost. Not when everyone else does the same for free.

Its defitnaly quite the joke.

The explanation isnt even a proper one. All the 'great things' about XBL are free. Gold only allows you play online....

skrat_01

This is where you and many others go wrong. All the 'great things' about XBL are not free, which is why the free services from others aren't as good. Silver members get these 'free' BECAUSE the Gold members are paying. This is a marketing/pricing strategy designed to expose as many 'free' members as possible to the service as possible, and then convert as many as possible to Gold to actually play on-line multi-player for a modest fee.

You and many other people are looking at this backwards. If there was no Gold membership, no fee, etc, would the base underlying integrated service be as good? The answer is not likely. Why bother with the extra polish and integration if there is no upside? Which is why the free alternatives aren't quite as good. You cannot segment the gameplay from everything else and expect the everything else to remain exactly the same.

Get it? All the best features of XBL are not free...it is just that roughly half the people pay $50 year and get to play MP on-line games, while the other half pay $0 but do not get to play the games. It could just as easily be everyone pays roughly $25 year. In short, the Gold members are subsidizing the Silver members.

What's with all the International pricing comments? You think international is getting screwed by Microsoft pricing?

Did we just wake up today? How much do they pay for gas? A lot more than in America. How much for a beer? A lot more than in America? How much for a cigarette? A lot more than in America. You see, they pay a lot more than America for all the essentials of life. Why would gaming be any different?

Almost everything is more expensive in almost every industrialized nation, than it is in America. It is a simple factof life. Microsoft isn't doing anything to you that is particularly special. Deal with it.

And no...I am not American.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

They cant properly justify the cost. Not when everyone else does the same for free.

Its defitnaly quite the joke.

The explanation isnt even a proper one. All the 'great things' about XBL are free. Gold only allows you play online....

SUD123456

This is where you and many others go wrong. All the 'great things' about XBL are not free, which is why the free services from others aren't as good. Silver members get these 'free' BECAUSE the Gold members are paying. This is a marketing/pricing strategy designed to expose as many 'free' members as possible to the service as possible, and then convert as many as possible to Gold to actually play on-line multi-player for a modest fee.

You and many other people are looking at this backwards. If there was no Gold membership, no fee, etc, would the base underlying integrated service be as good? The answer is not likely. Why bother with the extra polish and integration if there is no upside? Which is why the free alternatives aren't quite as good. You cannot segment the gameplay from everything else and expect the everything else to remain exactly the same.

Get it? All the best features of XBL are not free...it is just that roughly half the people pay $50 year and get to play MP on-line games, while the other half pay $0 but do not get to play the games. It could just as easily be everyone pays roughly $25 year. In short, the Gold members are subsidizing the Silver members.

STEAM?

No subscriptions for users to pay - Free online gaming, voice chat, friends list, 'marketplace' content, and they get dedicated servers too boot.

Free.

Both companies realised that the royalties from Microtransactions not only cover the costs, but also make loads of profit.

Yet msoft coninues to charge a Sub fee.

Online gaming on a computer can cost $5.00 to $12.00 a month, so how is $50.00 a year too much.

And if you have lag then check out your home network.

Online gaming on a computer can cost $5.00 to $12.00 a month, so how is $50.00 a year too much.

And if you have lag then check out your home network.

Zephyr_Elite

PC gamers only pay an internet fee. With loads of free goodies on the mighty internet.

XBL gamers pay internet fee + yearly sub.... with microtranscations galore.

And Lag isnt your own connections problem - unless you have a good one. Hear of the hosts connection much?

There isnt a comparison between XBL and PC gaming online.

While some here feel they can justify having to pay $50 a year on top of your internet connections just for online play, I can not. I've been gaming for years on my PC for free and I don't care what anyone says about Sony, their online is just as good from what I have seen.

While I do love my 360, I do not support Microsoft's additional fees. I mean... $129.99(Canadian) for a 20 G HD? $210 for the 120 G? There's only a difference of $50 between the Pro and the Elite, so why charge so much for the drive alone? It's like saying that if you're a first time buyer, we'll cut you a break butif you own a Pro or Core, screw you, you pay more. $129 for a wireless adapter?

Sorry forgoing a bit off topic but I feel it all ties together. People complain of the costs of the PS3 and yet it comes with all of these things and more but these same people don't have an issues shelling out all the money for MS's products, which in the end, winds up being more money spent. It's baffling.

/rant off