Microsoft explains why we have to pay for Xbox Live

I originally did not want to get Live on my first Xbox due to having to pay for it. I eventually did when Halo 2 came out. I had always played for free on my PC. Like Bane v2 said, PC gaming is not free for everyone. Yes, you can play PC games online and never pay a cent more than your internet fees, but somebody is paying for those servers. Even networks like Steam just link you to a list of servers available.

I also think the average PC gamer ismore tech savey than the average console gamer. In PC gaming you have to do a little bit more than pop a disk in a tray. Maybe PC gamers tend to be a little older than console gamers as well. Due to this you get people that will host dedicated servers. You get people that build game mods for fun. (Thanks to the guys that created Counter Strike) People that will create new maps for games. Of course with a lot of these mods and user created content, you have a lot of people that don't understand how to install/use/take advantage of it.

The developers that run their own free networks tend to only run them for a certain life cycle of the game. Take EA for instance, they tend to only run the Madden networks for a few years. Then they want you to go by the newest version so they close the servers for the old versions.

Consoles are generally made to be easy to operate for as wide a range of people as possible. That is why the console's online service needs to be easy to use, and dedicated(by this I mean always have available games), so that all its user base canuse its features. I have all the next gen systems andLive is head and shoulders above the PSN andNintendo network. I am sorry for those that have to pay more than we do in the US for Live, but I definately feel it is worth the cost for those of us in the US.

whats stupid is that they say we get all these features and stuff and thats what were paying for but then silver member get the features to and for paying we get to play with others over the internetkevster29

Silver members don't get to use the TruSkill matchmaking. Cross-game invites mean nothing to Silver members. Things like rep, monitored feedback and the prefer/avoid status don't come into play until you have a Gold subscription.

Having a closed, secure network where MS actively searches for modded boxes and bans them.... that really doesn't have much bearing on Silver subscribers. That directly addresses security concerns for multiplayer.

I think microsoft shouldnt be blamed for every woe the world has ever faced. So what if they're in it for themoney? If it wasnt for companies wanting to make a profit, we'd never have progress... the only thing besides want of money to force progress is war, and thats hardly a good alternative. Anyway, back on topic, i think Microsoft has every right to charge us for anything it wants, and as long as we pay, it will keep doing it. After all, if you think about it, loads of things could be free but we are instead charged. Ironically, a good example is the "Subscriber" service at Gamespot. They COULD have offered it free (all the money generated by advertizing) but, in the sake of business, you pay to get a better service. So, in conclusion, microsoft is greedy, but so is everybody :P

For the record, Sony nor MS has micro transactions on their systems. Micro transactions are 1cent or less. They're designed to be used to rent software so you load a program, you pay say 10th of a cent, what you pay on PSN or XBL is just plan transactions. teebeenz

doesn't Sony/MS call it micotransations (1 word)? its different. :P

[QUOTE="teebeenz"]For the record, Sony nor MS has micro transactions on their systems. Micro transactions are 1cent or less. They're designed to be used to rent software so you load a program, you pay say 10th of a cent, what you pay on PSN or XBL is just plan transactions. c0mplex

doesn't Sony/MS call it micotransations (1 word)? its different. :P

meh

i dont mind paying $50/year for a service thats exceptional....it's nearly perfect (at this point in time) in my eyes and I use it enough to warrent the cost.

[QUOTE="Bane_v2"]I just want to point out that PC gaming isn't free for everyone. Someone has to pay for those servers you guys are playing on, whether it's the developer of the game or, most of the time, the players themselves. As a member of a clan that runs our own BF2 servers I chip in on the bill every month. Dedicated servers are not cheap, Live's monthly cost is barely a blip in comparison to the price of our servers. And all this talk about wanting dedicated servers. I don't think they would work out as well as they do for PC gaming. For one thing, Live is a private network, Joe Shmoe can't rent their own server so all the servers would be provided by MS or the game devs. Yeah great, but how many do you think they can put up and admin at one time? Enough to satisfy all the gamers that are on Live at any one time? Hardly. It's just not financially or logistically possible for a single company, nor is it financially feasible for a lot of the game devs. But let's say MS did get rid of P2P networking and threw up some dedicated servers. You'd end up with a lot of pissed off people at any one time because they can't play online because all the servers are full. Unless MS opens up the Live network to the public (never going to happen) P2P networking is the only way to provide for the sheer number of people online at one time. There's a lot more to it than some of you guys appear to realize.Deihmos

Many people just don't know these things.

There is no rule saying Msoft cant host multiple servers, and also have p2p servers.

Why dont they allow ISPs to provide decidcated servers just like PC games?

In my opinion.....No let me rephrase that...Its a FACT that ALL online play should be free. With what MS makes off downloads and in game advertising, they don't need to charge us for online play. DL content and advertising alone will turn them a profit and pay for server maintenance. Anyone who believes other wise is ignorant.

PCs have had great online service for years with out charging. While Im an avid 360 player and fan, I can say that while $50.00 a year is cheap...its still stupid. We should not be paying to play online. This is why I hope Sony gets there online up to snuff with LIVE. If they can give an equal if not better service for free then MS will be forced to make gold free....then do what they did with the 360 elite. Add more super unnecessary things to it, and call it xbox LIVE platinum and charge $60.00 a year because THAT IS WHAT MS IS ABOUT: MONEY

Can you see it a couple of years from now: Gold will be free but Xbox LIVE platinum will have supeduper features that will again make us pay.....The cycle wont be broken unless consumers break it. Even I can agree that while paying is the stupidest thing in the world, we will all do it, until someone else can best LIVE and make it free. With all the mistakes that MS has been making (Hardware failures, charging for online, not including a bigger disc format etc.) Sony shopuld be capitalizing on it...but they are to stupid to apparently lol.

RabbidDawg

I really think MS should look towards Valve's STEAM, for how online gaming + play should be tackled.

Its by far the best example of how to get things right.

13.5+ million users is proof of it ;)

One thing that paying prevents is people creating new accounts to screw with people and team kill etc. Anyone who played ps2 online knows all about that...RockysCatnipCo

Loads of people do it - mainly to acess foreign marketplaces.

Having to pay for live is a rip off. Gold only gives you online play and nothing more. You get this, with the same quality servers, on PSN. To make matters worse, MS is getting money from every single microtransaction, which of course includes themese and pictures, things that should have been free in the first place.

I love my 360 but Live is a rip-off.

Having to pay for live is a rip off. Gold only gives you online play and nothing more.You get this, with the same quality servers, on PSN. To make matters worse, MS is getting money from every single microtransaction, which of course includes themese and pictures, things that should have been free in the first place.

I love my 360 but Live is a rip-off.

Velric

The microtransactions and DPs piss me off the most.

Imagine if GS charged for you to use your own DP, and Msoft charged desktop wallpaper downloads. GRAH!

Those who complain about lag do NOT understand the fundamentals of playing online! farrell2k

Wait a sec?

Even Tribes 1: (Starsiege Tribes) was almost Lag free on a 56k connection, on dedicated servers... With 32 players also on 56k connections

And that was back in 1999.... Hell even earlier.

XBL offers no dedicated servers, and most of the time hosts connections simply cant handle the traffic. That and quite a few games have butchered netcode. Cough. GeOW.

I have a 1500k connection, and XBL games Lag on local (Aussie) servers.... And my ping in CS:S dedicated servers is usually 19 to 30..

$4.16 a month. /thread .

Why dont they allow ISPs to provide decidcated servers just like PC games?skrat_01

Your really paying for nothing. It's a joke. Video chat and gaming (which they dont host).

I already pay 50 bucks a month for internet why should i have to pay extra to play with other people? It's nonsense.

With all the build in advertising and promotion its already pure profit.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Why dont they allow ISPs to provide decidcated servers just like PC games?Bane_v2

They DO host servers. And I know what a bloody ISP is... Dad manages one.... Dont beleive me? Boot up ANY PC online game and there is ISP hosted servers. Telstra - Game Arena, Internode, and Optus host major servers for loads of games here in Australia. The company my father manages hosted a few game servers, but dropped them due to low player usage.

PC game servers are primarily rented by the gamers themselves from game server rental companies for a monthly fee.

Depends.ISPs hosts servers to the public while some ISPs offer private dedicated server hire - for a price (ala BF2 and CS:S). Any player can host their own dedicated or standard server though.

And to answer your question: it's a security issue. The Live network is a privately maintained, closed network. I'm sure you're aware of the dangers of the internet, now imagine those dangers unleashed on Live and wreaking havoc on everyone's 360. How pissed would you be if your 360 came down with a virus that deleted all your game saves or corrupted the OS? But let's say MS did start a dedicated server program where Xbox Live subscribers could rent a dedicated server and have some sort of control over the game(s) played on it.

By letting ISPs or Msoft host their own dedicated servers dosent mean 'virusese and internet crap' will flow onto XBL. I mean seriously, coding a 'virus' for XBL and getting onto such a secure netowrk is almost impossible.

You're already whining about $50 a year for Live so I doubt you'll be one of the gamers who ponys up the $200+ a month it costs to rent a dedicated server. Let's even cut that price in half: $100 a month. 24 times the cost of a Gold subscription. Somehow I doubt you'll be first in line to get one. We haven't even started talking about the game devs developing dedicated server software which doesn't currently exist. Who do you think is going to pay for that dev time? We will through the inevitable increased price of the games. I mean, c'mon man. Please educate yourself on a subject before forming an opinion on it. Spouting fallacies makes you look stupid and undermines the point you're trying to make.

Have you know a 12month Live subscription costs $76.24 USD here in Australia, and the only benifit is online games. The rest it free....

As for the rest of your comment see STEAM. Vavle constantly updates every one of the listed games - from tweaks to visual changes like HDR or HUD modifications, updates the platform, filters a HUGE amount of connections, stores millions of profiles, has thier own microtransaction network, and of course a HUGE support and matinence team.

And all you need to do is buy a STEAM game, or be a STEAM user. Ha. 13.5+ million users.

No subscription fee... Crazy isnt it?

'Cmon man'

MORE Isps hosting gaming servers: IPGN - I Primus Gaming network. ISP - Iprimus.

Alright guys heres the bitter ( and very obvious >.> ) truth :

Microsoft is a private business. Their main aim is not to provide services, but to make profit. They KNOW that nearly everybody is going to pay for online gaming on Xbox 360, so they are setting a fee for it. The result ? HUGE amounts of money !Let's say there are 10 million Xbox Live Gold subscribers in the world ( hypothetical, there are actually way more) Per year, Microsoft draws out $50 from each of them. That's 10,000,000 X $50 = $500,000,000 p.a. ! Now they can either cater to their 'loyal' customers and make $0, or make that much. (plus more from marketplace) So you see guys, all they are doing is being a profitable, well functioning business, and frankl, it's the smart thing to do. We might say that PSN is way better and all, but 99 % of us gamers are still going to pay $50 a year to play great games like Gears of War, GRAW 2, Vegas etc. online. Sure, XBox Live could be made a lot better to add value to our money, but Microsoft wouldn't risk implementing dedicated servers etc. as the profit margin COULD drastically decrease.

And btw, glitches are the game's fault, not Xbox Live's. Nothing is perfect, and though things could be closer to it, making do with is the story of all our lives is it not ?

MMOs are an execption as the devs continue matinence, mods + admins and the HUGE amount of dedicated servers hosted.

skrat_01

you realize that this is exactly what we pay LIVE for, right? the exact same things you mentioned about MMOs, and yet MMOs will cost you a huge ton of money over one year, where as LIVE is only $50. so stop complaining you god damn whiners. that's all I see on this site. you all must be like 14 years old and can't convince your parents to pay it for you. go out and get a job. $50 is like half a days work.

All I see on here is people complaining about having to pay for map packs and other content, like it's their given right for it to be free. WELL ITS NOT! companies spend a lot of money on making content like that, and they are ALLOWED to charge money for it. you have that CHOICE, to pay and have it, or not pay and don't have it.

as the saying goes; you can't always get what you wan't.

Alright guys heres the bitter ( and very obvious >.> ) truth :

Microsoft is a private business. Their main aim is not to provide services, but to make profit. They KNOW that nearly everybody is going to pay for online gaming on Xbox 360, so they are setting a fee for it. The result ? HUGE amounts of money !Let's say there are 10 million Xbox Live Gold subscribers in the world ( hypothetical, there are actually way more) Per year, Microsoft draws out $50 from each of them. That's 10,000,000 X $50 = $500,000,000 p.a. ! Now they can either cater to their 'loyal' customers and make $0, or make that much. (plus more from marketplace) So you see guys, all they are doing is being a profitable, well functioning business, and frankl, it's the smart thing to do. We might say that PSN is way better and all, but 99 % of us gamers are still going to pay $50 a year to play great games like Gears of War, GRAW 2, Vegas etc. online. Sure, XBox Live could be made a lot better to add value to our money, but Microsoft wouldn't risk implementing dedicated servers etc. as the profit margin COULD drastically decrease.

And btw, glitches are the game's fault, not Xbox Live's. Nothing is perfect, and though things could be closer to it, making do with is the story of all our lives is it not ?

adhiraj93

I dont like it how Msoft prioritises making bucketloads money over everything else. By doing so they are only going to create more discontent, by shafting their userbase for more profit - ala milking it dry.

I mean we put in, they profit - can they atleast give somthing back. Unfortunatly no - cant risk thy loss of profit. Its a pity because XBL itself is one of the best intergrated interfaces around.

i actually dont mind it 50$ for a year + the amount of content / free shows, movies, downloads everynow and then... if you think about it you usually make your money back in all the free stuff... not to mention the fact of all the hours spent online playing, only thing I think they should change is if like with gears of war if the publisher wants to release free content microsoft should allow that and not charge 800points... but all and all its very much worth it

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

MMOs are an execption as the devs continue matinence, mods + admins and the HUGE amount of dedicated servers hosted.

maxxorz

you realize that this is exactly what we pay LIVE for, right? the exact same things you mentioned about MMOs, and yet MMOs will cost you a huge ton of money over one year, where as LIVE is only $50. so stop complaining you god damn whiners. that's all I see on this site. you all must be like 14 years old and can't convince your parents to pay it for you. go out and get a job. $50 is like half a days work.

All I see on here is people complaining about having to pay for map packs and other content, like it's their given right for it to be free. WELL ITS NOT! companies spend a lot of money on making content like that, and they are ALLOWED to charge money for it. you have that CHOICE, to pay and have it, or not pay and don't have it.

as the saying goes; you can't always get what you wan't.

And I can pay for live. I simply discontent with paying to play online, wheras I get the same experience - just without playing games for free.

This is further made worse by the lack of dedicated severs, relliance on player hosts (no player dedicated servers), and (on a personal level) the woeful lag and poor connections - here in Australia.

Besides map packs were intended to make the community grow, build a better one, and improve on the game. Hell Ask EPIC. Even all those GRAW and Vegas content / maps are free on PC, while XBL gamers pay. Thats just shocking.

STEAM is a much better example of how things should be done.

Well im still yet to renew my Gold Sub, even though ive had my Xbox for over 2 months.....

I mean hell, I COULD pay for a gold sub, but I can get another game.

Hell I bought (in Aussie Dollars) Crackdown $50, PDZ $25, SC Double agent $50, Burnout Revenge $30.... And XBL Gold costs $80 freaking dollards.

If Sony Online catches up, Msoft better re-think their subscription idea.....

And introducing Gold to PC gamers. No wonder they deserve so much hostility.

skrat_01

Haha. You said dollards.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Well im still yet to renew my Gold Sub, even though ive had my Xbox for over 2 months.....

I mean hell, I COULD pay for a gold sub, but I can get another game.

Hell I bought (in Aussie Dollars) Crackdown $50, PDZ $25, SC Double agent $50, Burnout Revenge $30.... And XBL Gold costs $80 freaking dollards.

If Sony Online catches up, Msoft better re-think their subscription idea.....

And introducing Gold to PC gamers. No wonder they deserve so much hostility.

rocafelon1001

Haha. You said dollards.

I have been owned :lol:

translation.

Iis hasv baen arwned ;)

the real reason is simply "we're a business out to make money"

but most people wouldn't like to hear that.

it makes me laugh when americans COMPLAIN!!!! what the hell are you b1tching about? I live in ireland and our renewals are roughly 10-20 dollars dearer. And we dont get any tv shows ,movies,Free gamerpics and themes,No free Aegis Wing . So americans Who is really getting ripped off? however i dont moan and b1tching about all that stuff. if you dont like paying well then dont. Live will be better off without people who complain.simple as A_ShooK_One

QFT

I am Canadian and We pay the exact same, actually, $10 more than the Americans. and We don't get any of the TV shows, IPTV, or 99% of that other cool stuff, yet I have never once complained about it, where as here I see so many yanks whine and whine and WHINE. I think that's all they know how to do. nothing is ever good enough for them!

but I know, topic creator, you're in Australia and I was not refering to you.

Sorry if this has been said already; We pay because Microsoft is managing and hosting the servers which cost money to have in the first place. Server cost + management = a fee we will have to pay.

And sorry if this has been said too; PC games (not all but a lot) are free because they use user-created servers, which we all know suck compared tothe company created ones.

Sorry if this has been said already; We pay because Microsoft is managing and hosting the servers which cost money to have in the first place. Server cost + management = a fee we will have to pay.

And sorry if this has been said too; PC games (not all but a lot) are free because they use user-created servers, which we all know suck compared tothe company created ones.

TheDrummer1200

Its the OPPOSITE.

PC gamers use DEDICATED SERVERS (can use both though (user) )

XBL gamers use ONLY USER SERVERS.

Msoft hosts NOTHING :P (game servers)

revalations!

Something i can live with.Immortal_Evil

nice pun

Also im pretty sure the rest of the world gets screwed over too exept for ....... go on geuss....AMERICANSA_ShooK_One

Simply comparing the US XBL to Aussie is amazing. All the HD content.... *gurgles*

I really should d'load Austin Powers dammit - If MS isnt blocking my other account. Hell I got the Armoured Core 4 demo.

Live is a rip-off... but MS has the games i want to play so i'm stuck paying for it.

no one can justify that Live is worth paying a dime for.

c0mplex