[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

Losing your children to a government agency is the problem. How can the government have this power over you? Marriage licenses. You asked permission to marry from the government. The product of this marriage is your children. The government now has partial ownership of them. When they determine you are unfit to be a parent they take your children away. Don't ask for permission to marry.

Ring_of_fire

Natural rights and natural law. Nature gives you the right to life and your body is the right to property. Those are the rights. Using these rights is freedom. Law is limitation of freedom. Natural law is nature/God/your creator has the only power to give life and take it. Meaning you can't take someones rights away.

The way I look at it and think everyone should do also is asking who is the creator?  Who created government?  People.  Who created people?  Nature/God.  The only way I see how people can be against this is that they don't know and what people don't know they are naturally against. 

Creation is showing power.  It's an act of freedom.  Freedom comes from rights.  The absolute freedom is live however you please.  But there are two sides of everything.  The opposite of a right is a wrong.  If everyone has a right to live then no one has the right to take life.

Losing your children to a government agency is the problem. How can the government have this power over you? Marriage licenses. You asked permission to marry from the government. The product of this marriage is your children. The government now has partial ownership of them. When they determine you are unfit to be a parent they take your children away. Don't ask for permission to marry.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So what rights do you have through nature?

worlock77

I have rights enumerated through law. Now you can say that these are privileges sure, but we use the term "rights" becuase they're held to be inherent to each person and not to be taken away unless one commits some flagrant violation of the law.

So what rights do you have though nature?

The Constitution is the law you got that right.  The Bill of Rights does not give you rights.  This means the law does not give you rights.  The Bill of Rights lists rights to remind government, people have rights.

Natural powers > People powers > Government powers > worlock77 powers. 

That's a bad place to put yourself in.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

Fine. I'll just assume you are talking for Thomas Hobbes. What rights do I have if not through social contract?

A right is power. Power is freedom. True freedom is what Hobbes describes. To do and own anything you wish. Yes, that is true. But he gets the law of nature wrong. Law is limitation of freedom. The Constitution of the United States is law for the government. It limits what it can do. The one and only law of nature is you cannot take an other's freedom. You don't give up your rights (to do and own) for peace. That makes no sense for freedom.

Rights break down to this. You may do anything you want. You may own anything you can.

Law breaks down to, you may not take rights.

Look at that. You were right. I do have rights through social contract. Rights through the state...of nature. Nature has authority over me. But the government state, the one that you are referring to, does not.

worlock77

So what rights do you have through nature?

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]And it did not create the guy that is bigger than you either.

SUD123456

The underemployment has remained fairly steady over the last year. Many people have simply given up looking for work which helped push the unemployment rate down quite a bit. The economy has improved slightly but with the recent massive rise in gas prices and government cuts looming chances our economy will still be in the **** for a long while still.

ferrari2001

Happy 14,500th!

Fine. I'll just assume you are talking for Thomas Hobbes. What rights do I have if not through social contract?

A right is power. Power is freedom. True freedom is what Hobbes describes. To do and own anything you wish. Yes, that is true. But he gets the law of nature wrong. Law is limitation of freedom. The Constitution of the United States is law for the government. It limits what it can do. The one and only law of nature is you cannot take an other's freedom. You don't give up your rights (to do and own) for peace. That makes no sense for freedom.

Rights break down to this. You may do anything you want. You may own anything you can.

Law breaks down to, you may not take rights.

Look at that. You were right. I do have rights through social contract. Rights through the state...of nature. Nature has authority over me. But the government state, the one that you are referring to, does not.