well.... do you need that money bad?Magical_Donuts

[QUOTE="farhan007"][QUOTE="nintendofreak_2"][QUOTE="farhan007"]it sucks that we wont see a next gen worthy zelda game for a while.... I want to see how link would look on the 360 or ps3... instead were stuck with another zelda with "new and creative" controls...goodlay

What are you talking about? All you're doing is restating your point that, "Graphics are more important". More interactive? :lol:

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

I don't mind Nintendo's goal, but I dislike how they're going all-out for the non-gamer and the core gamers are suffering because of it. I don't care what anyone try's throwing at me and it is selfish, because I'm a consumer, I'm a gamer, I care about what I want.

*I also have a Wii* :o

The other thread speaks a hell of a lot more to me.

BeauRoger

dont think we are suffering, getting so many fisrt party games in such a short time.

I decided to create this thread as a response to Subrosians thread, and discuss a few points he brought up. Of course, you cant argue opinion, as there isno right and wrong, but you cant base your opinion of facts that are incorrect and somewhat non-sensensical.

Nintendos e3 conference was the thing that triggered this massive reaction. That their press conference somehow confirmed that Nintendo no longer cares about their core-gamers, but only tries to expand the market. This is somewhat strange. Do you know that the majority of the press on e3 this time around is just non-gaming sources? more like news channels and newspapers. And have you seen their reaction to it? they are praising nintendo as the winner. do you think they should ruin it buy showing their hardcore offerings? no, it would be moronic. what some people fail to realise is that e3 is mainly comprised of casuals this time around. Nintendo has always evolved gaming, and now they are trying to expand is, which is a honorable cause, and they get only **** for it. They have opened peoples eyes and taken them from this singular one way road that only offers prettier graphics, and have shown that other things are important as well.

"They are killing gaming", some people say. So do you think that everybody who is about to become a gamer will only play casual games? Were you any different as a new gamer? Both you, the hardcore, and them, the new gamers, are humans. They will love hardcore games just like you are. there is a reason why games that you like, GTA, Halo, God of War, are the top selling games. Its because most gamers are drawn to them. And that will always be the same. But you need to introduce some people to gaming first, which nintendo is doing, for the sake of the industry. Of course, you could argue that "old people will never like those games", but they will never be a majority when it comes to gaming either. The only thing this markest expansion will do, in the end, is to expand the industry, which means more developers, more games. that will mean better games.

Alright, back to the question about nintendo abandoning the core, which, of course, is, if we look at nintendos history, completely false. The fact is that they are within a 4 month span, releasing 3 of their most loved games. You can say that they within a year of release of their new console, brought you both zelda, mario, smash bros and metroid. That has never happened before. They have 45 wii games under development, and they just aquired Monolith Soft, creators of the xenosaga series and baten kaitos, to create more hardcore offerings. In fact, Nintendo is doing more for the hardcore today than ever before. Even releasing games like battalion wars 2 and other games, even though they are just about to release mario, ssbb, mario kart and metroid. we got zelda 8 months ago. we got a DS Zelda, just now, that is praised both by casuals and hardcore.

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Which brings me into another point that subrosian made, about nintendo holding their beloved franchises hostage, and killing them. This strikes me as a weird statement. Havent nintendo, more than any other developer, always innovated and pushed their industry forward? Super Mario Land? Super Mario World? Super Mario GALAXY? Isnt it arguable, that mario, metroid, and zelda, all made the best transitions from 2d to 3d ever? Hasnt Ocarina of time and mario 64 been THE biggest influences in 3d gaming? How can people say, that those are rehashes, when in fact, they innovate more in every game, than entires genres do combined? There is more setting each zelda apart than all the WW2 first person shooters put together. Now they bring you a galaxy to play around in, a new control system in both metroid and zelda for DS, and people say that they are holding their franchises hostage, even though they have consistantly delivered EVERY TIME, and bringing in something new. which is more than i can say for every other franchise and sequel. mario, after so many games, still has more orginality than franchises that have only 2-3 games. Devil May Cry? Halo? how much have they changed?

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Subrosian even compares it to Sonic and Sega. well, there is one main difference. Sega failed, nintendo did not. Everybody in the game industry saw sonic break down as a franchise. Every journalist, every seasoned reviewer saw that sonic is on decline. Yet they somehow have failed to see the pattern in nintendo games, and foolishly praising mario galaxy, metroid prime 3 as good games. OH NO. only a kid with a laptop has seen the truth, that those franchises are in fact, also hostages. while the rest of the world is currently praising those games for orginality and quality as we speak, but they are obviouslydeluded.

Alright, thats another topic debunked. Now lets go in to a close subject. How nintendo "are making their games easier, and more casual friendly". are you, my good sir, basically saying that everybody will be of equal skill level? That nintendo meant that by saying more accessible?if that was the case, why have a game at all? do you think that everybody will be equal no matter how much practice and game experience? do you think your grandma will get a speedboost? it simply means "easy to learn, hard to master". and that is because the controls are easier to understand now. its the same with phantom hourglass, which is being praised by everyone. hardcores love the controls, and so do casuals. Shigeru in a recent interview said that even his development team was expressing concern that galaxy was getting to hard. So what nintendo means is simply more accessible, not easier. did you really think that the wheel that they introduced had a special power that made newcomers better than hardcores?

About DS. why not take a look at it, because its a perfect example of where Wii is headed. DS, is like wii, only a few stages ahead. its selling like mad, to casuals, and still we see games like phantom hourglass, final fantasy, dragon quest, ninja gaiden, etc etc. so are they losing their hardcore games? i think not.

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you hear every day about third partys jumping onto the wii bandwagon. none of that dissapeared. after the conference.they simply gave the public what they needed. and correct me if im wrong, didnt nintendo say they wanted to convert all new gamers into core gamers? everything that existed before exists after.

keeping the public happy and increasing sales in favour of showing hardcores the titles that they already have seen and know about, the titles that they are going to play in the end regardless of if they see them here or not is a fair trade, i think.

Krudus

You don't get it. Nintendo didn't talk about much/shunned ALL the games you listed that casualls enjoyed. THIS is the new direction they're taking. WiiFIT and soccer moms. They keep telling us at conferences "if you're looking for___, you came to the wrong place." Always trying to re-design what we think games are. They feed the hardcore just enough to keep them with them. Heck, where montages of those games were supposed to be, they filled it with information on their sales and who they're going after, and interviewing seniors. As if we cared or something. Nintendo is just trying to make money now. And thet'll step on one loyal market just to reach the next. funnymario

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

What can I say?

Everyone's impressed with it. You may not like driving games, FPS, fighting games, but LittleBigPlanet is one game everyone can enjoy no matter what taste they have.

NobuoMusicMaker

And yet, no one wants Wario Ware, Wii Sports, Wii Play, or Mario Galaxy. :roll:

Because those are pointless minigames. LBP has superior depth with its creation tool, great physics, a wonderful platform system, and the funniest mascot ever. Minigames are extremely limited and shallow. LBP allows for vast amounts of creativity and depth.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]

[QUOTE="subrosian"]No, your price-based model does not determine what is hardcore or not. Nor have Kirby, Mario Strikers, Project HAMMER, et cetera ever been hardcore titles. Look, it's okay that you're not hardcore gamers, but don't help Nintendo's cause by trying to pretend their mass market games are "hardcore". They're not, and the problem I have as a core gamer is that they're not producing core titles.
subrosian

Mario Kart was hugely popular, and Mario Strikers is said to be an amazing game. However, I can understand how you might not consider them hardcore games.

Kirby and Project H.A.M.M.E.R., however, can not remotely be considered mass market games.

I was going to to get PS3, I'm not sure since the recent lies and deceptions of SonyHeil68

And no, TC, I will not be getting a P$3 for LittleBigPlanet. I won't be getting one until I see the price lowered to my satisfaction.