[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Kantroce"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"]

[QUOTE="Kantroce"]You better include the price of a television with consoles then if you're going to be a hypocrite.Kantroce

I do.

I'm not rooting for consoles here. I'm a hermit who doesn't brag about miracle rigs, and represents the typical gaming consumer interested in PC gaming.

Why would you ever include the monitor or the television? That's a charge that rarely applies to either. I find that people playing this generation of consoles have to upgrade their television more than hermits upgrade their monitor. Anyone posting and reading on here on a PC HAS a monitor. Simple as that.

No s**.

I completely agree that console players need to upgrade their TV just as much as PC gamers upgrade their parts. If you go back to the first couple pages of this thread, I was never trying to make the argument that console gaming is cheaper than PC gaming.

What I was arguing is that if you want to start PC gaming fresh, be prepared to drop a grand to play the top-end games. And that the only reason people think that is expensive, is because they already blew the cash on a 360.

I always include monitor/speakers. I'm currently looking to buy another PC when I go back to college, can't steal one from my house you know.

You don't need to drop a grand if you intelligently spend your money. The post that showed all of the components from newegg could have sheared off some money with a different mobo and a different processor. Then you can add your monitor (if you ABSOLUTELY have to) and speakers (I use headphones). You will not spend a grand if you know what you're doing.

Rebuttal that not everyone knows what they're doing. I don't care; it's not my problem that some people don't know what they're doing or can't do research.

i didnt incluide monitor for a few reasons

1: ive assumed most people already have monitors

2: pcs can be plugged to tv's

3: HDTV's are more expensive then motiros so i didnt include that because if you asked me to include them you would have no argument left

you asked a pc capable of maxing cod foraround 600$ and i delivired, now show me that 360 that plays COD4 without a tv and coasted you only 450$

[QUOTE="Kantroce"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Kantroce"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Kantroce"]

Unless you're making this post from a mac or a Wii I think you might have a PC. Also if you spend 1k from the ground up you're an idiot and don't know how to build a PC. There's something to be said for knowing what the hell you're doing.

HoldThePhone

Are we talking lay down the case in your garage and piece by piece construction? Or we talking buying a customizable build on a website, and having them make it for you.

If it's the latter please tell me the dealer you're buying from and the components in the computer to run COD4 maxed out. Links please.

If it's the former, I think it's time you stepped outside and realized not everyone is a computer mechanic.

Ignorance is bliss, and always more expensive.

That's your rebuttal? You say I don't know what the hell I'm doing and that's your argument, "ignorance is bliss?". Am I supposed to think you're intellectually superiour now because you used a philosohpical quote?

GG

I never said I was intellectually superior. I never thought that was what either of us were trying to prove. I'm saying that if you don't know how to build a PC then you're going to pay for it. Simple as that. It's not my fault people aren't smart enough to read a tutorial and put together their own PC. Being smart will save you money, being ignorant is going to be expensive if you're going to play PC games.

Still have yet to see a list of parts/prices. I've read PC mags that make amazing machines with 800-1000 dollars, I look forward to hearing about yours.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131196
ASUS P5K-E/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $149.99
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098
Thermaltake TR2 RX W0146RU ATX12V Ver2.2 450W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, FCC and CE certification - Retail $64.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153057


case 40-60$
gpu 140$ 9600gt
total 639$

i didnt made any effort looking for parts of similar quality with lower prices , ive only looked at newegg and this build will easily max COD4 ive also randomly picked the CPU from the front page you can get a cheaper one with only a slightly diference on perfomance, you can go cheaper by buyng lower perfomance parts overall aswell or simply looking harder then i did

Orcs are clearly more human than animal (which is quite stupid debate in the first place since humans are animals themselves)and in some lore they're clearly "evil." In WH40K, for example, they kill and pillage without mercy and for no reason other than for the sake of killing.F1_2004

what the guy above you meant(iam guessing here so correct me if i got your point of view wrong), is that killing for no reason, isnt considered evil, but its considered fun, its another culture, some things might be considered evil by a culture and be perfectly normal in others.

and yes humans are animals, but i tought everyone could understand what we meant by "animals" and "humans" in the discussions

[QUOTE="Ket87"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]

In one thread that listed total PC gaming revenue, I saw alot of people saying that PCs was the bigges single system. I went into another thread and saw people saying that a fault of PCs is that you have to upgrade in order to play the latest games. PC gamers responded by saying its similar to how console owners have to upgrade to a PS3/360 if they want to play a PS3/360 game. That made me think, which one is it?

Should we count sales of PC games that can play on last gen tech as if its a different console? If not, can we count all PS2 sales as part of PS3 since, like a PC, you can play old games on the new system? Same for Wii and 360?

If its all one system/console then isn't the need to update a legitimate complaint since the system can't play all games sold for the system?

Not bashing, I just wanted clarification since it seems like depending on what makes it look the best, the PC is said to be one system or actually multiple systems that shouldn't be lumped together.

HoldThePhone

The great thing about PCs and why hermits are so cocky about them, is that it doesn't really have one big corporation behind the PC system.

The PC is just what it is, your Personal Computer. You make it how powerful you want it to be. Whether you simply want business aplications and internet browsing with a computer that cost you $500 or maybe you want to play Call of Duty 4 as well and you got a $1000 computer -- it's up to you. Your computer is compeletly customizable, you don't belong to a Sony, MS, or a Nintendo faction, your in your own league.

Thats something I see as a disadvantage though to PCs not an advantage. For you to play CoD4 you needed a $1000 computer where as I needed a $350 Xbox 360 which is the exact same game, even graphically theres not much of a difference.

I'd rather be a corporate tool and spend 1/3 the cost to play a game on a console then be a maverick non conformist and drop a grand on building my own PC.

Disadvantage? PCs are expensive, gaming or not. Why? Look at what your getting.

You pay 350-400 for an Xbox360. $50 a year just to use the damn thing online, and nearly everything the system offers has a price tag next to it. Music videos, T.V shoes, downloadable content, hell -- even themes and icons.

PC has infintely more features then a console, free of charge. So yes, a $1000 computer is what I would call an equivalent to the graphical capabilites of an Xbox360 (can do better acutally). People will tell you, "oh i run COD4 on a $400 rig i built", that's great -- but realisitcally, if you want COD4 or Bioshock at 70+ FPS, then expect to drop a grand.

PCs are already essential to everyday life for alot of people, and they usually go for 400-600 dollars for a standard piece of junk. Why not pay an extra $400 for the ability to play an amazing list of PC exclusives and still keep all the amazing features every PC comes with.

PC gaming wouldn't be so expensive to get into if you hadn't already devoted all the cash to an Xbox360.

Ignorance.

damn i loved your argument, from now on i wish i could say my pc coasted me 200$ because thats how much i had to expend extra on it in order to play games(since i was going to buy a pc anyway) but i doubt people here are going to be able to follow that logic

[QUOTE="Mizarus"][QUOTE="Ket87"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]

In one thread that listed total PC gaming revenue, I saw alot of people saying that PCs was the bigges single system. I went into another thread and saw people saying that a fault of PCs is that you have to upgrade in order to play the latest games. PC gamers responded by saying its similar to how console owners have to upgrade to a PS3/360 if they want to play a PS3/360 game. That made me think, which one is it?

Should we count sales of PC games that can play on last gen tech as if its a different console? If not, can we count all PS2 sales as part of PS3 since, like a PC, you can play old games on the new system? Same for Wii and 360?

If its all one system/console then isn't the need to update a legitimate complaint since the system can't play all games sold for the system?

Not bashing, I just wanted clarification since it seems like depending on what makes it look the best, the PC is said to be one system or actually multiple systems that shouldn't be lumped together.

Ket87

The great thing about PCs and why hermits are so cocky about them, is that it doesn't really have one big corporation behind the PC system.

The PC is just what it is, your Personal Computer. You make it how powerful you want it to be. Whether you simply want business aplications and internet browsing with a computer that cost you $500 or maybe you want to play Call of Duty 4 as well and you got a $1000 computer -- it's up to you. Your computer is compeletly customizable, you don't belong to a Sony, MS, or a Nintendo faction, your in your own league.

Thats something I see as a disadvantage though to PCs not an advantage. For you to play CoD4 you needed a $1000 computer where as I needed a $350 Xbox 360 which is the exact same game, even graphically theres not much of a difference.

I'd rather be a corporate tool and spend 1/3 the cost to play a game on a console then be a maverick non conformist and drop a grand on building my own PC.

excpet that my "last gen" 600$ pc (i bought it way before the 360 released) can max Call of duty (ive only upgragaded my video card) so your 1000$ point is pretty much null, expecially if you already have a pc, mine was built from ground up everything but a monitor

Yeah ok $600 older PC, but how much was it too upgrade your video card. You just null and voided your argument when you said you upgraded it.

nothing, evga step up! program

on a side note a 9600GT can max the game pretty well, and its only around 140$ pc's are much cheaper these days then they were when i bought mine, you could build a pc much faster then mine for the same price that ive paid

also, ive built my pc around 3 years ago, ive i had to upgrade now id pay around 140-200$ on a videocard, if i want to play CoD4 on a 360 tho id had to pay 400$

600$ 3-4 years ago+ 140-200$ now= 800$ over 4years, with the videocard upgrade the pc should last more 2-3years without having much problems,

the first xbox launched for 300$, and the 360 is at 450 now so thats equals 750$, but the 360 came out 4 years later then the original xbox did, so overall the pc will usualy end up being cheaper IF(thats a big if) you want to keep up with generations. (on pc you dont need to upgrade controllers)

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]

In one thread that listed total PC gaming revenue, I saw alot of people saying that PCs was the bigges single system. I went into another thread and saw people saying that a fault of PCs is that you have to upgrade in order to play the latest games. PC gamers responded by saying its similar to how console owners have to upgrade to a PS3/360 if they want to play a PS3/360 game. That made me think, which one is it?

Should we count sales of PC games that can play on last gen tech as if its a different console? If not, can we count all PS2 sales as part of PS3 since, like a PC, you can play old games on the new system? Same for Wii and 360?

If its all one system/console then isn't the need to update a legitimate complaint since the system can't play all games sold for the system?

Not bashing, I just wanted clarification since it seems like depending on what makes it look the best, the PC is said to be one system or actually multiple systems that shouldn't be lumped together.

Ket87

The great thing about PCs and why hermits are so cocky about them, is that it doesn't really have one big corporation behind the PC system.

The PC is just what it is, your Personal Computer. You make it how powerful you want it to be. Whether you simply want business aplications and internet browsing with a computer that cost you $500 or maybe you want to play Call of Duty 4 as well and you got a $1000 computer -- it's up to you. Your computer is compeletly customizable, you don't belong to a Sony, MS, or a Nintendo faction, your in your own league.

Thats something I see as a disadvantage though to PCs not an advantage. For you to play CoD4 you needed a $1000 computer where as I needed a $350 Xbox 360 which is the exact same game, even graphically theres not much of a difference.

I'd rather be a corporate tool and spend 1/3 the cost to play a game on a console then be a maverick non conformist and drop a grand on building my own PC.

excpet that my "last gen" 600$ pc (i bought it way before the 360 released) can max Call of duty (ive only upgragaded my video card) so your 1000$ point is pretty much null, expecially if you already have a pc, mine was built from ground up everything but a monitor

Exactly - their own laws and ethics. So they can't be judged by the standards of humans. My point is not that orcs are or are not animals (I just threw that in), my point is that they are neither good nor evil by human standards - because they cannot be judged by human standards.

of course they can, they share the same world, if they act in a way that offed the humans they get into war, its pretty much the same thing as having multiple nations, they share the same world, their actions have impact upon each other

[QUOTE="Mizarus"][QUOTE="mfsa"][QUOTE="Tuzolord"][QUOTE="Vfanek"][QUOTE="Tuzolord"][QUOTE="mfsa"]

[QUOTE="Tuzolord"]Warcraft - Not all Orcs are Evil!mfsa

Orcs themselves are never evil in fantasy. At least, not naturally. They are just stupid animals that are easy to control. Good and evil doesn't enter into it.

Take a lion as an example. A lion may kill and eat you, but it has nothing to do with good and evil - the very concept doesn't exist to a lion, so when people look at the actions of lions, they don't use concepts like good and evil.

The same is true of Orcs in my opinion.

Orcs are not Animals, their the same as Human just look different. Atleast thats how it is in Warcraft.

Which still doesnt make them Animals.

What is it that separates them from animals in your opinion?

hm they can reason, talk, learn, build houses , form bounds, develop technology, on warcraft they are pretty much on par with humanos socialy and techology speaking, they are just a more spiritual race then humans are

(the alliance tech is developed by gnomes and goblins not humans right? if not i take the technology part back)

Many animals can do some or all of the above in varying degrees (with the possible exception of reason - but that debatebly depends on how you define reason), but those animals might also kill you without provocation - but no one would ever call the animals evil, or good.

My point is simply that good and evil are abstract concepts that humans have created based on ethical principles that apply to humans. How can we define a different species using our own principles? They may not be animals, but they are definitly not humans, and the instinctive (and, if it exists, ethical) attributes of any species must be judged appropriately and uniquely based on the characteristics of that species. They may be feral and violent, but the concepts of good and evil would not apply to them, it would simply be their nature to be violent.

because orcs on warcraft abide by their own laws and abide by abstract concepts as well, they have their religions politics and all this shabamg, thus making them apart from animals

[QUOTE="Andrew_Xavier"]

Apple had a console, it was called the Pippin, it failed miserably.

There it is, sexy init ?

ChinoJamesKeene

Looks abit like my old printer.

is it just me or those are USB ports?