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#1 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

@one_plum said:

So let me get this straight.

A group of Ukrainians overthrew their democratically-elected government. The Crimeans didn't like that so they want to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. In response, Russia sent troops in Crimea.

Russia is probably not entirely innocent in the whole matter, but If I were to go by this version of this story, then Ukraine is mostly at fault, unless if I'm missing something. Imagine NATO's response if a democratic western nation was overthrown by a violent group...

Basically, what makes it worse is large part of the group that took over is near enough a Neo-nazi anti Russian organisation which will rile up the largely Russian eastern and and southern areas.

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#2  Edited By Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

It's been happening for a few days now, the Pro-Russian elements in east and south of the country are starting to kick off and want a referendum with the west not wanting the country to spilt up it'll probably end up as a civil war.

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#3 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts
@gamerguru100 said:

I've been reading around and apparently 73% of Russians (in Russia) don't approve of Putin's actions. Apparently many Russians have relatives in Ukraine and also feel that Ukrainians are family to them (as an ethnic group) since they both share Slavic heritage. The last thing they want is a war between the two largest Slavic nations on Earth.

Link

Oh, and apparently the Kremlin has been trying to brainwash Russians into thinking the Ukrainian revolution was a result of an American alliance with Nazis to weaken Russia. I wasn't aware this was 1944. Good to know most Russians disagree with Putin. I've also read that Putin is making moves on Ukraine because he's afraid he'll be ousted at home like Viktor Yanukovych was in the Ukrainian revolution.

It's actually the other way round Putins approval rating is at the highest it's been in years due to whats happening, overall the Russian people see this as western backed aggression directed against Russia.

Putin 69.8% approvel

Obama 38%

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/03/07/Putin-the-Great-Russians-Love-the-Ukraine-Crisis

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#4 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

Some idiots on those forums don't really have a clue, the Crimea is basically part of Russia and has been since the Russian empire took it from the ottomans 2-3 hundred years ago it was only added from Russia to the Ukraine in the 1950's, since the break up off the Union it's been near enough semi-autonomous with high tensions since large % of the population wants to rejoin Russia.

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#5 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts
@Master_Live said:

^^^^^

It is better when you provide sources.

Crimea is going to hold a referendum to join Russia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/ukraine-crisis-crimea-part-of-russia-local-parliament-declares

Snipers.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/europe/ukraine-leaked-audio-recording/

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#6 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

@deeliman said:

@Newhopes said:

US is losing whatever leverage it had to impose sanctions, EU is backing off just like I said they would due to Russia threatening cutting off the gas and seizing asserts, add onto that the likely hood the snipers that where killing people where working for the opposition rather than the ousted president and they really can't do anything.

I really think the this really hasn't played out the way the west hoped, instead of a moderate government they got a hardline ultra nationalist almost neo-nazi group that wants to ban speaking Russian and to remove Ukraine citizenship from ethnic Russians.

As I said before as long as Russia acts by the book and doesn't move in as permanently occupying force I see nothing morally wrong with what they're doing.

Again, what do you think would happen to the russian economy if Russia loses half it's income?

So again what would the EU do with little to no economy, really like to know what and how you think the EU is going to replace the 4.4 million barrels of oil and Gas it imports from Russia everyday?

BTW Russia is the largest oil and and natural gas producer in the world, Most east EU countries are almost 100% dependent on the supply, Germany and Austria are also around 40% dependent with France and Italy not far behind, in Fact the UK is about the only country which wouldn't be directly affected massively.

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#7 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

US is losing whatever leverage it had to impose sanctions, EU is backing off just like I said they would due to Russia threatening cutting off the gas and seizing asserts, add onto that the likely hood the snipers that where killing people where working for the opposition rather than the ousted president and they really can't do anything.

I really think the this really hasn't played out the way the west hoped, instead of a moderate government they got a hardline ultra nationalist almost neo-nazi group that wants to ban speaking Russian and to remove Ukraine citizenship from ethnic Russians.

As I said before as long as Russia acts by the book and doesn't move in as permanently occupying force I see nothing morally wrong with what they're doing.

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#8 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

@airshocker said:

@Newhopes said:

So ya

Roughly 4 billion barrels of untapped oil, 17 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, 500m barrels of natural gas liquids and large deposits of minerals like gold,lithium iron and copper.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18882996

This proves absolutely nothing except the fact that Afghanistan is very rich in oil reserves.

Meanwhile you ignore all other points thrown your way...

What points the US and Nato won't do anything because frankly they can't, if they did they commit economic suicide.

Morally I see nothing massively wrong with what Russia is doing at this time, if and thats a big if they make this permanent or start fighting then do something about it.

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#9 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

@vfibsux said:

@airshocker said:

@Newhopes said:

@airshocker said:

@Newhopes said:

After what Nato did to Iraq/Afghanistan and what the US tried to do in Syria I really don't think we have the right to say anything, at least Russia has real reasons to be in the Ukraine IE protecting ethnic Russians and a strategically important base and not Invading on flimsy and probably fabricated evidence.

And the the US and EU can't do anything more than throw hot air at the Russians, take any action they'll dump there US treasuries and cause a run on the dollar and shut down oil and gas exports to the EU effectively crippling both.

That isn't a good enough justification. If we're going to use that then we're basically saying Russia can invade any country as long as the area they're going to has a lot of Russians there. That's bullshit.

What do you think the US has been doing for the last 20 odd years invading countries to protect the petro Dollar and the Dollar reserve status, we should sanction them while we're at it.

When did this become about what you perceive the US has done? This is about Russia. So stay focused.

It is patently absurd to say that Russia should have the right to invade a country, especially when that country hasn't shown any type of threat towards a specific ethnic group, solely because a large group of Russian-speakers live there.

If the government of the Ukraine had decided to go on an genocidal spree, sure, I could understand such intervention. Nothing of the kind has happened. This is simply an excuse for Russia to expand it's territory. Nothing more.

It is amazing this conversation even has to take place. Hatred for everything U.S. is so prevalent in these people (even the self-haters like this guy) anything anyone else does is excused as long as it rubs the U.S. the wrong way. I bet Iran could nuke Israel and these people would be happy because it would outrage the U.S., then we would ultimately be the bad guys for wiping Iran off the map lol.

Yea...we invaded Afghanistan for oil.....where the fk do you people come from?

So ya

Roughly 4 billion barrels of untapped oil, 17 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, 500m barrels of natural gas liquids and large deposits of minerals like gold,lithium iron and copper.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18882996

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#10 Newhopes
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@deeliman said:

@Newhopes said:

And the the US and EU can't do anything more than throw hot air at the Russians, take any action they'll dump there US treasuries and cause a run on the dollar and shut down oil and gas exports to the EU effectively crippling themselves

Fixed.

We especially the EU(US isn't really big trade wise) are far more dependent on Russia than they are on us, about 35-40% of all energy production in the EU is based off oil/gas imported from Russia they shut that supply down within months the EU economy will simply shut down due to energy shortages, a knock on effect would be massive increase in world oil prices. Russia on the other hand is a net exporter mostly of raw materials and mostly import services they'd take a hit at the start but by in large they can be pretty self-sufficient if they need to be.