I chose something different. The descriptions you gave made me feel like I had the choice of 1 a bioware RPG or 2 an MMO.

I personally prefer J-RPG's with linear story's and no dialogue choices. I'm not kidding. I know no one else wants this especially game reviewers. I want one ending. It's like reading a novel or a choose your own adventure. I know its shallow but its what I like.

visceron

Basically, these are the kind of games I had in mind:

Group 1: BG2, Fallout/F2, VtM Bloodlines, P: Torment, KotoR2. NWN, also, as a crap, true RPG. Well actually I'm not sure about that one, whether it's a crap RPG or not a RPG at all. Tricky one.

Group 2: Oblivion, WoW, Diablo, Final Fantasy.

I think JRPGs, with their emphasis on turn-based strategy, inventory and skills/powers management, and freedom to wander around exploring, would clearly fit in Group 2.

I don't think that linear = shallow. Or all literature is shallow. As you say, it's just about personal taste.

interesting. i guess it's no suprise, since it's fallout's spiritual predecessor. but i would say that a level 1 knight has a much different perspective of the world than a level 18 knight; a level 1 knight would probably be crouching in a corner, hoping no one notices him, while a level 18 knight would strut around confidently. but that kind of stuff is never implemented in a game, unfortunately (only in terms of what monster you can or can't fight). i always wanted npc characters to run away from me. like in bg2 - after i defeated the red dragon who was talking so much smack, i wanted others to know me as a dragonslayer, but no one treated me any differently. that's one thing that fallout and especially fallout 2 did so well. it made you think that you were a real person in a real world; people knew you as someone who made porno films or beat the heavyweight champion, for example. lol!

fireandcloud

That's why I hate being attacked by small-time bandits on the road when I'm a Hero of the Land, covered with shiny armor, with a sword the size of a telephone pole with flames blazing out (that's a theoretical example). Are they suicidal or what? And goblins are supposed to be cowardly little creatures...

Just found a review of the old classic Wasteland at the Home of the Underdogs. It expresses some ideas which I think are relevant to this thread. Here's an extract:

Another element that makes Wasteland such a great game is the character development system. Most RPGs have a player select a class for a party member - but what IS a class? Does it let YOU role-play? No, the class tells you what and how to role-play. Does it enhance the game? Perhaps, but once the class is defined there's no real development OF the character - A level 1 knight has the same desires, goals, and value systems as a level 18 knight. Wasteland uses a skill and attribute based system, periodically giving a character 'points' to use on attributes and skills, as well as having skills increase through use. But moreover, the character development doesn't stop when you use up the points - many places in Wasteland allow a character to separate from the rest of the party and engage in some solo activity - maybe hooking up with a prostitute, or venturing into a cat-and-mouse game within the mind of an android. Stuff like this builds the character individually, and thus, the party. By the end of the game, I look at my characters and not only see what they are (level 20 Corporals, demolitions dude, charismatic leader, tech expert...) but what they went through... their individual victories and tribulations. This makes for a very powerful gaming experience.

oh, and are you a fan of the ultima series or wizardry or might & magic. they're ancient, but they're the grandfathers of rpg gaming. many consider ultima 7 to be the ultimate (pun intended), and i'd agree if not for the great games that came around the late 90s and the beginning of this decade.

fireandcloud

I played M&M 6 when it was released. I did get addicted to playing it at the time, though I don't think I could play that kind of game anymore that involves butchering 3 million goblins and skeletons. I remember trying Ultima VII on my Win95 system and it was way too fast. Maybe I'd find a way to play it now. Good thinking! Especially when I'm stuck with a sprained ankle in front of this PC which will not play anything fancier than NWN (Hence the present forum frenzy).

@fireandcloud:

By the way, I've started playing Betrayal at Krondor (and I thank you for that suggestion, the game is indeed very interesting). So don't tell me VtMB is rough around the edges :lol:

you can't just break into people's houses and go on a killing spree in real life either.

artur79

You can, but unless you have good connections, the gameworld being as reactive as it is, the option for free-roaming adventures might get switched off abruptly.

At GS they actually seem to have created a new genre just for that one series of games.

I don't really know how it plays but as far as I know the main difference with an RPG is that you manipulate characters as if they were units in a strategy game, you' don' play one character in particular. Or am I wrong?