[QUOTE="Strider212"]

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]On the contrary, i was once a christian.But since ive turned my back on religion, life has an added sense of awe.Its not about feeling comfortable, pain is essential in growing up.All must experience it.I feel relieved that im not constrained by ignorance.While you might find bliss in ignorance i am held by shackles.

xxDustmanxx

I would tend to disagree that you were a Christian in that I believe that God's hold on us is much stronger than ours on Him. We truly are unalike in most ways. Life has such a greater sense of awe to me in that I see God's glory in the nature of things.

Christians are not immune to pain. I experience it just as you do, but when I experience pain, I ask "What am I to learn from this?", and I am grateful for the times because like you say, pain brings about growth.

Again Christianity is not a contraint, it is a privilege. When you discover that you are loved so deeply, it is impossible not to want to find a way to reciprocate.

I also ask myself, "what am i to learn from this".Just because i lack belief in a god doesnt mean i dont find meaning in my life.

You really dont get it do you?I am loved by many people.I dont need a deity to show me this.For me religion is a constraint.

No, I do get it. I really do, despite what you've made up in your mind about me, I really do empathize.

The problem I find is that when a lot of broken people try to provide something that they don't truly understand either, we end up in a big mess.

There must be a stable factor in our lives that cannot be given by another human. This isn't a constraint but a great mystery that is a whole lot of fun to be a part of.

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]In you opinion life is aweful without christ.This just shows a physiological weakness.(not saying your the only one, we all have weaknesses.)You are the one to blame for the wrong choices you made, a dead and possibly fictional man will not help you with those problems.In the end it is you through influence and subconsciously, that helps yourself.You simply put a messianic mask over you achievements.mikeg0788

Your right, there is nothing wrong with believing.But i would rather believe in ideas that are supported by evidence nomatter how grim, than ideas that have none.

I would rather believe in unfailing love over anything else. The mere pursuit of such a thing has been written about, sung about, and fought over since the beginning of time.

Yes, but one could argue that if what you believe in has no evidence but you choose to believe in it anyways, you're simply buying into the whole 'ignorance is bliss' mentality.

That's called faith. And if in my pursuit, others receive the benefits, I will truly be happy (this isn't a prediction, it is a statement of fact in that I am truly happiest when I am able to help others).

Every belief system should be somewhat grounded in reality. I'm assuming you've had feelings, emotions, and experiences that you attribute to god, yes? There's YOUR evidence.

I was mostly arguing your statement of "I would rather believe in unfailing love over anything else". If you had no experience or evidence of this love, you'd be believing for the sake of believing. Thats wishful thinking, not faith. However, since I'm assuming you HAVE experienced this love in some form (or what you believe to be this love), you have logically convinced yourself it must be truth based on personal 'evidence' (as opposed to empirical evidence, hence the quotes).

Well, I would ask you, when has love ever demanded empirical evidence? When, in your experience, have you loved another person and they have demanded empirical evidence.

There are many different kinds of love (as is evident by the Greeks), yet the conditions of live never seem to contain them in any sort of formula. Therefore, I believe there is a dynamic of love that everyone seeks, but only exists in one form. It fits every shape of hole in each person's heart. This is found in a relationship with Jesus Christ, and it is something that I have found has brought life to me.

On the contrary, i was once a christian.But since ive turned my back on religion, life has an added sense of awe.Its not about feeling comfortable, pain is essential in growing up.All must experience it.I feel relieved that im not constrained by ignorance.While you might find bliss in ignorance i am held by shackles.

xxDustmanxx

I would tend to disagree that you were a Christian in that I believe that God's hold on us is much stronger than ours on Him. We truly are unalike in most ways. Life has such a greater sense of awe to me in that I see God's glory in the nature of things.

Christians are not immune to pain. I experience it just as you do, but when I experience pain, I ask "What am I to learn from this?", and I am grateful for the times because like you say, pain brings about growth.

Again Christianity is not a contraint, it is a privilege. When you discover that you are loved so deeply, it is impossible not to want to find a way to reciprocate.

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]In you opinion life is aweful without christ.This just shows a physiological weakness.(not saying your the only one, we all have weaknesses.)You are the one to blame for the wrong choices you made, a dead and possibly fictional man will not help you with those problems.In the end it is you through influence and subconsciously, that helps yourself.You simply put a messianic mask over you achievements.mikeg0788

Your right, there is nothing wrong with believing.But i would rather believe in ideas that are supported by evidence nomatter how grim, than ideas that have none.

I would rather believe in unfailing love over anything else. The mere pursuit of such a thing has been written about, sung about, and fought over since the beginning of time.

Yes, but one could argue that if what you believe in has no evidence but you choose to believe in it anyways, you're simply buying into the whole 'ignorance is bliss' mentality.

That's called faith. And if in my pursuit, others receive the benefits, I will truly be happy (this isn't a prediction, it is a statement of fact in that I am truly happiest when I am able to help others).

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="jking197"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Although in most cases it isnt forced, it is taught at a young age when the mind is most vulnerable.I believe that parents should let children chose for themselves.

xxDustmanxx

You're taking it to the extreme. He's saying wait till the kid is at a good age to make there own decisions regarding religion, not violence, etc.

No they will have to educate themselves, there comes a point in life where you finally ask yourselves, who am i, and why am i here?

Once again religions are the basis of morals.A child will be taught not to violently assault someone, and other things that are beneficial to his or her growth and knowledge of ethics, while they will choose on their own(when the time comes)which belief system to follow.Besides, no one is in any kind of hurry, in the end we all end up taking pascals wager, we will never know who holds the truth.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="jking197"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Although in most cases it isnt forced, it is taught at a young age when the mind is most vulnerable.I believe that parents should let children chose for themselves.

Strider212

You're taking it to the extreme. He's saying wait till the kid is at a good age to make there own decisions regarding religion, not violence, etc.

No they will have to educate themselves, there comes a point in life where you finally ask yourselves, who am i, and why am i here?

Wow, I was raised in a Christian household, and I still did that. I don't think it's exclusive for atheist households.

Yes, but because of your strong indoctrination you probably rejected them.While a child who has not been corrupted by brainwashing will be able to start fresh and choose according to their interests and not feel restrained by religious threats.

You are in fact, wrong sir. I went down a path I realized would ultimately lead me to a place that I didn't want to be in (and I'm not talking about hell in case you're wondering). I experimented with things, and I found that life was pretty awful apart from Christ.

In you opinion life is aweful without christ.This just shows a physiological weakness.(not saying your the only one, we all have weaknesses.)You are the one to blame for the wrong choices you made, a dead and possibly fictional man will not help you with those problems.In the end it is you through influence and subconsciously, that helps yourself.You simply put a messianic mask over you achievements.

I disagree. If you'd like to discuss psychology, then let's. I found, intuitively, in fact, that when I was seeking after something greater than myself, I was happier. For a long time, I sought after my own self-interest, and I was unhappy. This has nothing to do with a weakness, it has to do with a positive association.

There have been studies that show that religious people (I don't know that it was exclusive to Christians) are generally happier, cope with life better, and give more to charities than other people groups.

If you don't believe in a savior, at least you can believe in the science of the subject. I would look up the studies, but I've got class in the morning, so I will be heading to bed soon.

Of-course believing that you are special and in gods plan is reassuring, but if it lacks evidence that i wont waste my time with it.I believe religious belief is detrimental to the mind and judgement no-matter how sugar coated it is.

Then your view is a truly unfortunate one in that you've never experienced what I have.

[QUOTE="Strider212"]

You are in fact, wrong sir. I went down a path I realized would ultimately lead me to a place that I didn't want to be in (and I'm not talking about hell in case you're wondering). I experimented with things, and I found that life was pretty awful apart from Christ.

mikeg0788

Did you ever completely alienate yourself from your religion? As in, did you ever completely stop praying, stop reading your bible, and stop seeking only the advice of Christian mentors? I found that when I freed myself of Christianity's overpowering influence, I was able to act and judge based on my own, rather than rely on others (in the form of a deity, a book, or other christians). Its been an incredibly enlightening experience, and while i missed my sort of blissful ignorance (I'm in no way saying religious people are ignorant, this is an introspective look), I wouldn't trade it for what I've received.

If God can't accept me for thinking on my own and behaving in the way he designed me to behave...then I'm not so sure I want his affection.

If you truly believe in God, good for you. Seriously. However, I've experienced different things and came to different conclusions. I would almost guarantee you we see eye-to-eye on most social and moral issues (except maybe things like homosexuality..), and our drive to help others and live lives that contradict what is 'popular' is comparable. I guess our motivations would differ, where yours might be more centered around pleasing God, mine would be more hedonistic and utilitarianistic. haha, I'm rambling. I'll stop.

Yes, I broke away from the religious aspect, but I discovered the true meaning of Christianity, the relationship. I don't follow Christianity because I HAVE to, I follow it because I GET to.

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]In you opinion life is aweful without christ.This just shows a physiological weakness.(not saying your the only one, we all have weaknesses.)You are the one to blame for the wrong choices you made, a dead and possibly fictional man will not help you with those problems.In the end it is you through influence and subconsciously, that helps yourself.You simply put a messianic mask over you achievements.xxDustmanxx

Your right, there is nothing wrong with believing.But i would rather believe in ideas that are supported by evidence nomatter how grim, than ideas that have none.

I would rather believe in unfailing love over anything else. The mere pursuit of such a thing has been written about, sung about, and fought over since the beginning of time.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="jking197"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Although in most cases it isnt forced, it is taught at a young age when the mind is most vulnerable.I believe that parents should let children chose for themselves.

xxDustmanxx

You're taking it to the extreme. He's saying wait till the kid is at a good age to make there own decisions regarding religion, not violence, etc.

No they will have to educate themselves, there comes a point in life where you finally ask yourselves, who am i, and why am i here?

Once again religions are the basis of morals.A child will be taught not to violently assault someone, and other things that are beneficial to his or her growth and knowledge of ethics, while they will choose on their own(when the time comes)which belief system to follow.Besides, no one is in any kind of hurry, in the end we all end up taking pascals wager, we will never know who holds the truth.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="jking197"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Although in most cases it isnt forced, it is taught at a young age when the mind is most vulnerable.I believe that parents should let children chose for themselves.

Strider212

You're taking it to the extreme. He's saying wait till the kid is at a good age to make there own decisions regarding religion, not violence, etc.

No they will have to educate themselves, there comes a point in life where you finally ask yourselves, who am i, and why am i here?

Wow, I was raised in a Christian household, and I still did that. I don't think it's exclusive for atheist households.

Yes, but because of your strong indoctrination you probably rejected them.While a child who has not been corrupted by brainwashing will be able to start fresh and choose according to their interests and not feel restrained by religious threats.

You are in fact, wrong sir. I went down a path I realized would ultimately lead me to a place that I didn't want to be in (and I'm not talking about hell in case you're wondering). I experimented with things, and I found that life was pretty awful apart from Christ.

In you opinion life is aweful without christ.This just shows a physiological weakness.(not saying your the only one, we all have weaknesses.)You are the one to blame for the wrong choices you made, a dead and possibly fictional man will not help you with those problems.In the end it is you through influence and subconsciously, that helps yourself.You simply put a messianic mask over you achievements.

I disagree. If you'd like to discuss psychology, then let's. I found, intuitively, in fact, that when I was seeking after something greater than myself, I was happier. For a long time, I sought after my own self-interest, and I was unhappy. This has nothing to do with a weakness, it has to do with a positive association.

There have been studies that show that religious people (I don't know that it was exclusive to Christians) are generally happier, cope with life better, and give more to charities than other people groups.

If you don't believe in a savior, at least you can believe in the science of the subject. I would look up the studies, but I've got class in the morning, so I will be heading to bed soon.

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="jking197"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Although in most cases it isnt forced, it is taught at a young age when the mind is most vulnerable.I believe that parents should let children chose for themselves.

xxDustmanxx

You're taking it to the extreme. He's saying wait till the kid is at a good age to make there own decisions regarding religion, not violence, etc.

No they will have to educate themselves, there comes a point in life where you finally ask yourselves, who am i, and why am i here?

Wow, I was raised in a Christian household, and I still did that. I don't think it's exclusive for atheist households.

Yes, but because of your strong indoctrination you probably rejected them.While a child who has not been corrupted by brainwashing will be able to start fresh and choose according to their interests and not feel restrained by religious threats.

You are in fact, wrong sir. I went down a path I realized would ultimately lead me to a place that I didn't want to be in (and I'm not talking about hell in case you're wondering). I experimented with things, and I found that life was pretty awful apart from Christ.

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]

1.) Do you believe in evolution? Yes

2.) Do you believe the world was created in 24 days, 10,000 years ago? No, big bang.

3.) Do you believe the bible is 100% correct? No, it's metphorical

4.) Were you Christian since Birth? Yes

5.) How do you know that Christianity is right? I don't, that what faith is: Belief without proof.

jking197

Okayyy, how the hell are you a Christian if you dis-believe the bible? So you don't believe in Adam and Eve (e.g. being spawned by incest - and Eve being created by Adam's rib) and you believe in the big bang?

Just so you know, I answered your questions in fair dept. I would like to continue discussing it with you.